the quest for super soil

Angelika Maier wrote:That sounds really logic. The compost is also important because of all the organic matter -weeds and the stuff he brings home, unfortunately nothing what usual compost making manuals tell. Lawn clippings that's not us. Kitchen scraps - How many kitchen scraps in comparison to huge weeds do we produce most go to the chooks anyway! They are inside only at night so not much bedding here either. But our weed piles are impressive! And looking at them they don't seem to belong fully in the 'green' category.

hau kola, rule #1 of composting: use what you have and or can get for free.  Most books will give you "ideal" materials, what is important is to start piling things that rot into heaps, you can always add other materials as you acquire them, or not as the case may be.

Everything green (the term for materials containing nitrogen and is growing or was just cut) turns into browns (the term for carbon materials ) as it dries out.

I've made a compost heap using nothing but tree leaves, I had a huge raked up pile of fallen leaves and that spring I waited for leaf out to do the pruning and that gave me green material to add to that heap of "browns", it worked just fine for making compost.
It wasn't the best compost but it was compost and it did add nutrients and humus to the soil.

Anything can be used that way, don't let yourself get hung up on what makes the best compost, just make compost then use it and grow more things. Eventually you will be growing everything you need to make great compost from your garden leftover materials at the end of the season.

There is nothing wrong with starting out with nothing but browns, just remember to add some greens when they come around. This takes longer since you have to wait but that is composting.
Spent coffee grounds are a great way to add nitrogen to an all browns compost heap, just open the center, pour them in and add water to moisten the heap, those grounds will jump start the heating process.
Any fungi you find can also be added to a heap of browns, those will drop spores, grow into hyphae and decompose those browns, when you go to use that compost you will be adding the fungal hyphae to your garden space, good stuff that is.

Need more tips on how to make the best use of what you have?  you know how to reach me.

Redhawk

Hello Redhawk,

I've been following permies for 3+ years; it has grown and grown and I love it. This is my first brave post.

Okay, so I just packed up my sleeping back and van and moved into a house for the first time in 5 years.  I'm a college student and work seasonally during the summer months.

We have a front fenced area about 12 x 17 yards which has had nothing growing but wild grass, some bird seed that took off, Blackberries and English Ivy.

--Lay out of the house and yard. North Facing yard with a house between some of the south facing but they yard does get some of the South exposure. The east side has a steep hill into a creek which tightly wraps around the east, south, and west area of the house. (2 Plum Trees on West/North corner, 2 Apple in front yard, 3-5 OLD cherry trees.)

We are on Day 3 of the English Ivy eradication.   We have cut and pulled our hearts out. Anyway 3 questions.

1. Should I Immediately try to replant the sides where we "killed" the ivy or let it sit?
2. If we let it sit should we lay cardboard down over they old root and cover it with wood chips; if we do will that continue to kill the Ivy? If the Ivy continues to die does the hill loose it's structure?
3. Our soil.  I am chomping at the bit to get things planted. Do I till the soil and plant clover and leave it for the spring? Or do I leave the yard as is until I can afford soil test?

I'm currently making calls to all the local farmers in hopes of organic byproducts. We live in a Marijuana cash crop areas so anything that could improve soil or help one with soil improvements is ridiculously prices.  I.E. 90/truck load of cow poop... Not compost just poop.

Today we're building a lil 6 hen chicken coop and 3 bay compost area searching for answers on what to do next.

Thank you for your time

--New Permie Gardener

1. Should I Immediately try to replant the sides where we "killed" the ivy or let it sit?  

 
Any time you disturb the soil or lay it bare you need to get some type of cover on it immediately to at least slow erosion (planting grass or ground covers works best once established).

2. If we let it sit should we lay cardboard down over they old root and cover it with wood chips; if we do will that continue to kill the Ivy? If the Ivy continues to die does the hill loose it's structure?  

If you are going to use cardboard to cover and try to kill the root system of Ivy, do cover the cardboard with at least 3 inches of wood chips. When roots die, they begin to decompose, which is what is usually wanted. A hill looses structure by erosion not root die off. The soil will loose the structures that held the soil in place.

3. Our soil.  I am chomping at the bit to get things planted. Do I till the soil and plant clover and leave it for the spring? Or do I leave the yard as is until I can afford soil test?  

Since you have been ripping out Ivy by the roots, odds are you have done enough disturbance to the surface soil and it is time to plant some winter rye grass to get some new roots growing to hold the soil in place.
As spring arrives you can then plant through the winter rye (annual grass) what ever type of ground covers you desire (vegetable can be planted too, or what every type of plants you want to grow there).
Just looking at your pictures, I think you can get by without a soil test for this first season, I'm going on appearance here.
The soil looks to be friable and containing some good microbiology from your photos.
If you could get a "close up" photo I could perhaps tell more about the surface soil appearance.

Redhawk

Here are some pictures I took of 3 different areas of disturbed soil because we pulled ivy or blackberries out by the root. I also have another question (s)


Should I do a cereal rye/ hairy vetch mix?  


The rains will start coming but it's been in the mid to high 60's for 2 weeks now but I am doing all the rain dances I know how...  The rain will grace us with it's presence this winter!  Regardless, I'm curious about how to plant the cover crop.


Do I just throw the seed down?
No need to sow?
Also throw the seed down on a sunny or foggy week, or does it matter?


Thank you again for your time.

-Flora

That looks like very nice soil, there are going to be bacteria and fungi hyphae in there because of the ivy and blackberry roots, so just getting cover on there is all I would worry about doing.

Cereal rye can be broadcast seeded and then raked over just to make sure the seeds are in good soil contact, it will also help with bird pilfering of your seeds.
Vetch for me is a mixed blessing, in my area it can keep regenerating so it is only used in pasture areas, same for morning glory in my area.
I love vetch, it worked great for me in New York and Northern California, Arkansas it is more "weed like" in that once it has roots established, it is tough to get rid of when you want it gone.

I like to use a mix of cereal rye, hairy vetch, crimson clover, dutch white clover, sweet (yellow) clover and rape for most cover crop areas.
I use this mix both as a chop and drop cover crop and as a pasture start up cover crop. The rape puts down large, deeper roots for breaking up the soil and adding lots of humus once it deteriorates.

For winter seeding, just get them down with good soil contact, the rains will do the rest, conditions really don't matter as much as lots of folks think.

Redhawk

Inhave found this very informative, thanks

Bryant RedHawk wrote:I've covered a lot of information about how to improve soils and what we want mineral wise in that soil.
In essence we feed the soil so those microorganisms we desire to live in the soil have everything they need to thrive.
Doing this, we inadvertently provide superior nutrition for the plants we grow in that soil for food.
Another way of looking at it is that we feed the soil to feed our plants and thus feed ourselves.
The end result is that we end up with balance in the soil that creates balance in our food plants and the food those plants produce which creates balance within our bodies.
From all that, we become healthy and our bodies are able to fight off or kill off diseases that try to invade.
This is what is meant by the great circle of life, organisms are born, thrive, perish, decay which puts the nutrients that made up the organism back into the soil and the whole process begins again.

By building our soil, we can then focus on other things like developing the forest around us to also provide us with food, both plant and animal.
We can spend time away from trying to grow plants, they will do that all on their own because our soil gathers in and holds water and oxygen, the microorganisms recycle the minerals in the soil and feed the plants and the organisms that make soil out of dirt.
We have time to go fishing, hunting, read books, relax how we like to relax.
Our work load has been reduced  because we build our soil, our health has improved greatly because we build our soil, our animals have improved health because we build our soil.
Life, becomes better because we build our soil.

As most here know I am a Native American,  one of the first people (if your in Canada), I have been following the good red road for most all my life and I am an elder person (not a tribal elder).
My culture is one of balance, healing and caretaking of the earth.
This is because in my culture it is what we are supposed to do for if we don't do this our great, great, great, grandchildren will not have a place to live.
In my nation I have been referred to as having great medicine and healing for the people, it is just something that I was supposed to do and so I do it.
I hope that what I have shared in this thread is of use to all who read it, do feel free to copy it and save it for future reference should you want to do that.

I am sure I will do a few more threads of how to heal the earth mother.
pilamayaye (pee-lah-mah-yah-yea) thank you. and remember always Mitakuye oyas'in (We are all related).

Redraw  

i thought you were native but didn't want to be rude and ask outright. Native peoples were permaculturists and keepers of the land long before the word was coined. i have some Micmac and Maliseet in my family and contribute that to my families love of growing and foraging for our food as well as preserving our natural world. our seasons would be named for what was there for the picking at the moment or when its was planting or harvesting time. i still label the times of year this way and have passed that on to my children. I'm so glad thingshave gone full circle and we once again are starting to put Mother Earth 1st. but we have so far to go. I'm grateful for your science and insight into the world of soil. it is almost a religious connection you have that makes you so passionate about the life in our soil. i look forward to your further posts on the subject! keep up the great work!

hau Steve, I am Nakota Sioux and Irish.
I walk the medicine path. The people have great respect for all living beings (we consider everything alive and having a spirit as you know).

Pilamayaye Kola for the kind words.

Redhawk

Bryant RedHawk wrote:hau Steve, I am Nakota Sioux and Irish.

I'm French Acadian Maliseet/ Micmac. my mother had enough blood in her to register with the Maliseet nation across the border in Canada but i was too far removed to be registered in either tribe. both  tribes share the similar region, beliefs and language . they're often considered the same peoples.  much respect sir!

Hi Steve, send me a bit of your soil over!!
I added two pictures of my unimproved 'soil'. It is around the grey water area, which I redesign and replant a bit. I use Mediterranean herbs there but the weeds grow aggressively and are difficult to rip out.
Mediterranean herbs do well there.
According top this webpage: ASRIS most of our area consists in so called Kurosols and Rudosols (if I read the map right since the colours of the legend and the map are quite different. Unfortunately I can't take a screenshot. Both are quite poor according to this poster: soil classification

Hi Flora, Im also a resident of the beautiful emerald triangle. Our soil here is pretty great, Fortuna has some especially delightful soil. Without a soil test I can tell you that you will benefit from a bit of magnesium rich rock dust. I'm pretty sure we're all lacking geologically in that realm out here. Quick and dirty route is to use epsom salt in occasional watering, if you're using tap water I think something around 1 TBSP of epsom per 5 gal of water will be plenty. This is most crucial for fruiting plants like tomatoes or peppers or cabbages. But it never hurts around here, we are lacking much. Otherwise I find it hard to maintain bare ground around these parts. I would check for some local cover mixes for any area you aren't going to cultivate becuase things will regrow. Ivy and blackberry will need to be repeatedly removed, that's life around here. Dig out roots when you're feeling ambitious, always cut sprouts you find where you don't want them. Mints and balms make good cover that competes with these and is usefull and fun. Best of luck

Another question: Steve Solomon says that the relationships of different ions are important, i.e. copper and zinc. I think I read somewere that not everyone agrees on that. What's your take?

hau Angelika,

My current research is showing that there are so many interactions of different anions and cations that we can not ignore the importance of them in plant communication with the organisms of the soil and each other (plants do communicate with each other).
One of the extremely interesting things I have found is that if there are missing "links" then some communications will act like intermittent cell phone service which means the whole message isn't understood by the microorganisms and that causes trouble with the plants getting the items their exudates called for.
That means that even if all the minerals and other nutrients are available, the plant can't get what it needs and thus malnutrition of the plant results.
It also means that if there are attackers of the plant, it can't get the warning out to the other plants thus the other plants can't set up their defenses and they too come under attack and that might mean that the entire set of plants perish or are weakened enough that they end up perishing.  
Copper and Zinc are major players in the communication and nutrient supply world of plants and microorganisms just as they are in humans.
If you get a cold, taking a zinc pill a day can shorten the time period a human suffers from the effects of a cold, same sort of thing happens in the plant and microorganism world.
This is because Zinc is a major part of the immune systems ability to synthesize the items we need to fight off the cold virus, without it, we remain sick longer. In the case of the Flu, we might even die because our body doesn't have enough of this mineral.  

People that think that this isn't important for humans apparently don't understand that what the plant eats, we eat when we consume the plant or part of the plant.
Same thing is true of any thing we eat, if the nutrients are missing from our food, then we don't get the nutrient(s).

Redhawk

In humans there are relationships between ions one is zinc and copper. They have to be in the right balance, too much of one makes the other unavailable (I can't remember it exactly). I wonder what modern agriculture does to the soil a lot of interference without a lot of understanding.

"modern" agriculture is the practice of constant disturbance to keep the ground at the beginning of time state.
All that disruption keeps any microorganisms from establishing well enough to form colonies, thus they keep their ground at the raw minerals state.
The farmers then pay for all the additions of fertilizers, weed killers, bug killers, irrigation water and fuel to do all that.
It is by its nature non sustainable, and that is why government gives out subsidies to these farmers, with out those hand outs the farmers would go broke in a single season.

Soil relationships between minerals and microorganisms along with air and water are what allow dirt (the base ground up rocks that are the start of soil) to support plant life.
If you take dirt and plant something in it, water it with microorganism cleaned water, you will see the seeds sprout but they will begin to die once their "yolk sack" has been used up.
Hydroponics is a great way to prove the need for the micro world to be in place where you grow food, taste a hydro grown tomato then the same species grown in good soil, there is no comparison.
If we then did a chemical analysis of each of these tomatoes we would find a marked lack of nutrients in the hydroponic fruit when compared to the good soil grown fruit.

Redhawk

A bit off topic:  I hate how councils around here spray in the name of bushcare. I would like to have a short movie probably it exists already. Scene one: A teaspoon of soil with all the critters eating being eaten mating and dying. Scene two: one drop of the usual weed killers is sprayed on. What does happen to soil when you spray it repeatedly with roundup or triclophyr or however this is spelled. I want to write to the council asking weather the bushcare levy pays for spraying.

Great idea Angelika.

Most of the organisms we are wanting in our soil are single cell or colonies of single cells, these reproduce simply by cell division. The "higher organisms we want are either asexual or do indeed "mate".

What happens is that the sprays act as poisons to the microscopic organisms thus they die off, this occurs at the first spraying and successive sprayings only reinforce the death rate at best or sterilize the ground into dirt at worst.

Redhawk

It would be a crime scene.. Bushcare only seeds the bigger plants and animals there is no thought on the soil critters. Apart from that if we spray our agricultural land with roundup or whatever will follow then we probably can't grow a crop in the years to come? Farmers are slaves already.

Redhawk, I'd love your comments about something from Gabe Brown. Gut feeling, theory, or opinion is fine.  If you covered this already I  apologize.

Nitrogen measured 10 pounds per acre. Big ag says you need 200 pounds/acre to grow corn. He grew corn and equaled or beat the local averages.

He is no till,  doesnt clear the debris, grows low growing cover crops with the corn. Uses no chems (fertilizer, herbicides, pesticides) from what i can tell.  Maybe runs chickens and cows after harvest. He has very high organic content from years of doing this.  

What are your thoughts.  Are these organisms/organic matter in the soil slow feeding nitrogen on a small enough basis that its getting its needs daily vs a lump sum full season application?

I am coming to the opinion that a lot of what you are researching is confirming past actions by the greats like fukuoka. Except you are pushing the envelope further. Great job on what you are doing.

hau Wayne,  

Nitrogen is thought of in the chemistry side of soil science (and Big Ag always goes by the chemistry, never the biology) as the "growth nutrient.
The reason the big three are what are emphasized on bags of fertilizer is because N, P, K were the first nutrients identified as necessary for plant growth way back in the late 1800's.
Ever since the Dust Bowl, Big Ag has reinforced their ideas that you have to till for every crop planting and you then need to fertilize and use something to stop weeds from growing or you won't get a good yield from your crops.
They are right only if you want to use their methods, since that means you have created dirt from what was once soil, which means you now have to add all the nutrients that would have been provided by the soil biology organisms.
I see no reason, if you are promoting good soil life quantity and quality, to have to use anything artificial as a regular amendment

Gabe and others are proving that Big Ag is going about everything the wrong way. Gabe treats his land like it was the old prairie full of tatanka (Bison) who roamed around the great plains, trampling, fertilizing, grazing and then moving on.
Today we usually use cattle for our bovine item and Gabe follows this model.  
Corn is considered a heavy feeder (and it really is, just like bamboo is) but the soil biology is perfectly capable of providing all the ammonium these plants can possibly need, with out any extra additions.
There is also lots of work now being done on the role of the soil fungi (as opposed to the decomposers of wood) and their interactions with the other organisms of the soil biology.

Gabe's fields are the perfect example of how just growing plants creates a soil biology that thrives and provides all the nutrients the growing plants ask for.
His cattle are grazed through and they act just as they are supposed to, deriving their nutrition and giving the soil back nutrition.

My dissertation is on plant communication with the soil microbiota world, how a plant community starts out healthy and remains that way through waves of diseases, pests and draught periods.
I have actually been working on this research for over 25 years I find the interactions at the microorganism level fascinating.
I was amazed when the movie Avatar seemed to be referring to these interactions and communications, even though they took it a bit out side the true realm that I know of with plants communicating with animals well enough to direct the animals to do things.
The plant world has three main communication methods and I know of two other methods that seem to be used but not as a mainstream method.

What I have been presenting in the soil threads is mostly from my Biology Masters Thesis which was completed in 1976 and the research I have done since then.
I am currently waiting to hear from King's College as to if I can share some of my current findings.

Redhawk

Hi Redhawk

Thinking about your book, and your dissertation, I am glad that your book is being written for the layman. When I suggested "theory", I meant knowledge. I believe that knowledge is for all, and I am not a fan of opaque language, which just excludes lots of people. I write myself, and I believe communication is about transferring information. Therefore, as clear and direct as possible is best.

However, that is only for your book. May I suggest that you have an accompanying website, with your dissertation and all other scientific work in this field? There are so many doubters of organics, and it would be great if people could access all the data that you have created. I think there would be a lot of people going there to either confirm what they believe about organic farming, or to view something that might change their mind about it.

I don't know if your literary agent has a publishing deal already, but I think this could be a very major book. The selling point for many people will be the fact that it gives clear, achievable ways in which they can improve their soils. I don't know if there is anything out there quite like it. After all, the original permaculture books contain both knowledge and practical instructions on how to achieve the lifestyle. My mother and step-father live in the same area as David Holmgren, the co-author of the permaculture books.My step-father wrote a letter about willow trees in local creeks ( a weed species here)  to the local paper, and David Holmgren, despite not knowing him, called him up and they met and discussed the issue. So he must be a pretty open and approachable guy. Would you like me to get his number/address from my mum? I imagine he would be very interested in your work.

I also subscribe to the blog of one of the presenters of our national ABC gardening show. He lives in the closest city, and is scientifically trained. He is an organic gardener. He may also be interested in your work. I could post on his blog about your work.

Lastly, my dad lectures in chemical engineering at the Australian National University. I have told him about your book. Would you like me to find out the names of the lecturers in the biology department? Some of them may be interested too. Perhaps you could visit Australia one day! But just thinking about it, I could do these things to promote your work, and raise the audience for your book. If your publisher understands how important this is to the worldwide cohort of organic gardeners, they will hopefully put in some good resources to bringing it to print.

I am really looking forward to that book. Australia could profit heaps. Please include gardeners, don't talk only about ploughs but hoes....
This is a typical image, but it is quite green (from a real estate agent)

Angelika Maier wrote:I am really looking forward to that book. Australia could profit heaps. Please include gardeners, don't talk only about ploughs but hoes....

I plan to work from a gardener's pov and bring up that the techniques can be scaled up to what ever acreage you have with examples of everything from a balcony box garden to a thousand acre farm.

We plan to try for the first edition to be released in English and then go from there. Sales will have to show the publisher that the interest is there for multi-lingual editions.

(I applied for a visa to Australia 12 years ago and was denied a visa)

Redhawk

Silly Australian visa office! They made a mistake! I am sure with an invitation to speak at an Australian university, a visa will be granted.

Unfortunately, the work of American oil company executives has infected the English-speaking countries, but other places are not so behind on climate change and environmental concerns. Having European parents, and having lived there for 3 1/2 years, I am certain there is a big audience for your book in Germany, Italy and Scandinavia. I suspect France, Portugal and Greece would share that interest.

China is committed to environmental sustainability. It has a vast amount of poor farmers who will be interested in increasing their yields with affordable, home made treatments.

Indians are well-educated and fantastic English-speakers. They suffer from the same population pressure and lack of farming wealth as China. I am sure there is a big market there.

Angelika, you would agree with me about Europe?

hau Nicola, actually it turned out to be the US Government that blocked me from leaving the States. It seems that Some projects I worked on during the Vietnam era are still classified and anyone with knowledge of them is rather stuck in the USA.

stephen lowe wrote:

Bryant RedHawk wrote:Teas are meant to be sprayed as a folar feeding.  This is great if you are treating diseases or infestations, but not the best overall use of your compost.
Extracts are meant to be poured on the soil.  This will condition soil quickly, get the organisms where we want them and it will help them populate the roots of the plants faster.

To be continued.

Redhawk

This is the statement that lead to my question, Redhawk. I apologize if I overstated the case, but I am curious as to why you think that teas are not the best overall use? I have always considered teas to be the most efficient way to use compost so I am curious to hear an opposing opinion from someone with your level of knowledge and experience working with the soil.

My understanding, from taking Dr. Ingham's course, is the process of making a tea, as opposed to an extract, gets the microbes actively making glues so that they stick to the plant when sprayed on. This isn't necessary when applying it to the soil. It doesn't hurt but it isn't necessary.

I don't know how to reply to a particular post but wanted to chime in on gypsum. Gypsum does not raise soil pH. I use it to improve drainage and tilth. Gypsum replaces sodium.

Here's a description "Applying gypsum helps reclaim sodic soils where sodium that’s attached to the cation exchange complex becomes too high. The most economical way is to add gypsum which supplies calcium. The calcium displaces the sodium held on the clay-binding sites. The sodium can then be leached from the soil with irrigation water or rainfall." - Dr. Daniel Davidson from http://www.eco-gem.com/gypsum-remediate-saline-sodic-soils/

To raise pH, that is make it "sweeter," use lime. To lower pH, viz. make soil more acid, e.g. to grow blueberries in a container, use sulfur. Gypsum has worked magic on my soil structure without changing pH. My soil is a very fine silt that behaves like clay. Gypsum has a significant effect on very few soils, by the way. It won't make a clay soil behave like loam. For that you need organic material, the cure all!

hau Sue, Having re-read that part of my post, I think my fingers were not in sync with my brain (I can get far ahead of my typing in the thinking processes).

Teas, when properly made will indeed have a sticky quality to them, this comes from the fungi mostly and it is the secretion that sticks soil particles together, it works in the tea spraying to hold the microbes to leaves and bark.
I've done some experiments with teas sprayed on leaves for feeding plants and it tended to clog the stoma of the leaves, making transpiration work slower or not at all, until the "goo" was washed off (rain does the best job of this).
I like using teas for treating diseases and infestations, I don't think it is so beneficial when used to feed the plants through the leaves. (this is one of the areas Elaine and I have differences in thoughts)

It seems I didn't get the whole explanation into the post, thanks for catching that and pointing it out so I could correct that error.

In the world of building soil biology, we want the best mix and ratios of all the organisms for the plants we are growing, or we want a good overall organism society with nothing being the dominant organism.
If you are spraying a tea on the plant, those microbes are not going to migrate to the soil (some will fall as the aerosol settles out of the atmosphere but most will stick to the plants), this means that the soil isn't getting those microbes.
Microbes will migrate from the soil, up the plant interior and exterior, so to me it is better to spray the soil right around the plants first then spray the plant. That is the part that didn't get into the original post.

Extracts will also create those "glues" they won't be quite as prevalent, both extracts and teas can be injected into the soil.
This allows us to place organisms deeper than they might migrate to in a short period of time, so they can start breaking up deep compaction and forming new matrixes of fungi hyphae deeper, when these hyphae find roots, they will wrap and migrate up and down the root body.
Thus using either teas or extracts in this manner will create a broader spectrum of biology through out a wider expanse of the soil horizons, which can only be a good thing.

Redhawk

1. Use the least amount of mechanical or chemical disturbance possible — Keep tilling to a bare minimum and strive to avoid all synthetic fertilizers, pesticides, herbicides and fungicides.

2. Keep living plants on soil as best you can year around.

3. Diversify your crops, cover crops, and yes daikon radish is great for opening up soil.

4.  Introduce animals if you want to.

This is my summary from Gabe Brown's ideas.

No one is perfect, I started with lawns this year.  I created 4 beds, one double dug, next lawn flipped over, last two laid down cardboard and threw cow manure on top essentially on all beds.

Wow. I love this work you are doing. I have a deep passion for all this but can get jaded with badly recycled information. It's partly why I hit the science books.  This is top notch material I'm enjoying it very much. I'd also love to read your doctorate if allowed.

You talked earlier concerning the microbiome about plants 'somehow sucking stuff' up. As you no doubt know, if not passive transport via capillary action, intake is likely via high and/or low affinity transporters. These are interesting in that they can vary considerably in copy number by phenotype. This is one reason 'dialing in' a soil can be so perplexing. Nutritional availability is not the key to good nutritional input as you point out, but processing of nutrients correctly via the microbiome is.

Good plant breeders (those freaky old hippies) select plants with high copies of high affinity transporters, and also some low affinity (without knowing this is what they're doing), bad plant breeders select for lots of low affinity transport. This is at least partly why a lot of plants folk buy from larger chain stores do badly in organic conditions - They're bred in chemicals and kinda suck to be scientific like.

This is also at least partly why it often takes a few generations for plants to adapt to your land.

Part of the success of organic soils is plants adapted to organic soils, like nature intended.

Angelika Maier wrote:I really did print out the thread. And I think that all needs a bit more depth, detail and straightening up and it would make a great book!

1. When you write about biological content = 25% do you mean the organic matter content of your soil test? If so, you have a VERY different target than Solomon.

Indeed it is vastly different but that is because I am looking for a soil that will continue to break down the organic material so I don't have to keep adding more every year. Most soil scientist think 7% is plenty but go into a forest and take a good soil sample and see how much is organic matter.

2. The rocks you refer to how big do you mean I usually throw stones in a bucket because they make my carrots crooked.

I like to remove all rocks larger than a golf ball (1.25 inches in diameter) if you are growing root crops, you might find anything over 1 inch is to large.

3. Rock dusts: once again Solomon has a different point of view and according to his calculations they are too much money for what you get - who's right?

If your soil is lacking minerals, you need a method to get those back into the soil and that is what rock dust is for.

4. You suggest taking a bit of forest soil for inocculation - what about Aussie bush soil? This is very different to normal forest soil - what would this do?

This would depend on what you want to grow, most bush soil is great for growing eucalypts so if your plants need the same biology as those, then it would be appropriate to use bush soil.

5. Lucerne. It seems to be the best awesome cover crop. But in my case, I have fill over swamp, what would it do draw up the goodies or as well the more harmfull (asphalt) stuff with the goodies. The fill is approx. 1-1.5 metres high underneath is swamp.

for a plant to ingest asphalt, the asphalt would need to have formed salts with minerals, since it is a tar product, I don't think you would need to be overly concerned, especially if you add fungi such as oyster mushroom spawn, the fungi are what help break down the tar as well as being the highway for bacteria to travel along, when the bacteria get to the asphalt, it will be broken into component parts (which are not tar).

Another question is super soil for what? Apart from different target levels according to whom you ask veggies probably need a different super soil than fruit or at an extreme Mediterranean herbs. Even some veggies need a different super soil than others.

Super soil is a soil that has good quantities of all the different organisms, it will grow any plant. If you want an area for just fruit trees, then you would add mycorrhizae to the root systems of those trees thus adjusting the microbiota of that area.  Same goes for any type of plant that needs a specific set of organisms to thrive. Super soil has some of everything, not a perfect blend for a monocrop mind set.

If you prefer to use Solomon's ideology, go for it, it is sound thinking from his experimentation and observation. If you want to use your own observation skills and through experiment find the set of methods that work best for your area and conditions then do that. If you want to build a base soil that will grow any plant you stick in it and then use observation and experimentation, then what I have been writing would be a good way to do that type of remediation.

All soil in just about every country will need some help to be able to grow a wider variety of plants than what naturally occur in that area of the planet. Building super soil gives you the edge to have the best starting point possible, then you make adjustments according to what you observe happening.

Redhawk

For the Aussies here, Christine works with sheep and cattle ranchers and has achieved some wonderful results

Dr Redhawk,   we have access to tons of fresh kelp. Can it be use in place of kelp power?

Kelp powder is simply dried kelp that has been pulverized, I would prefer to use shredded fresh kelp that still had the moisture of the sea with it.
Sea water is a very misunderstood item when it comes to soil born plants, many think that because sea water is salty that it will turn soil saline, this is only true if you were to saturate the soil for a long period of time.
When I lived in Los Angeles California I did my first sea water experiments on plants.
What I discovered was that if I used sea water on my vegetable garden once a week, it would indeed start to show signs of being salinized within two months.
If I simply diluted the sea water 1:1 with fresh water and used that to water the vegetable garden, there was no build up of salts but the plants grew great and the fruits tasted far better than those that didn't get the sea water at all.

Now I know that this was because freshly dehydrated sea water yields sea salt that can have up to 97 minerals in its composition, land only has around 69 minerals (not absolute but close enough), that means that even the best land grown foods will be probably lacking some of the nutritional values possible.
That doesn't mean that we should go crazy and buy sea water, but it does show that by using sea salt that hasn't been purified as an amendment (similar to using Epsom salts) there are bound to be benefits to us the consumer and the plants.
It also helps the microbiome organisms since they can now get the minerals that they would be lacking without the addition of a little sea salt.

Since you have access to fresh kelp, I'd use it as long as I chopped it up both as a mulch and as an in-soil amendment.

Redhawk

Yeah, the only danger I associate with tonnes of wet, organic anything is it ganging up and gleying on me where I don't want it to. Chopping it up and mixing it in will prevent that.

-CK

Another option for getting the benefits of sea water for those that don't live near the sea is to use a sea water concentrate like sea-crop. I know that at least sea crop removes the majority of the sodium chloride so the risk of over salinization is low but you still get the benefits of all the trace minerals. And it's pretty affordable, you can get a gallon for 60 bucks with free shipping in the US and that gallon will make 50 gallons of their recommended dosage which you would use once a year or, as I usually do, you can just add a little bit (like 1-3 ml/gallon) to irrigation water a couple times a month. I feel like a gallon lasts in my veggie garden for around 2 years and, like Dr. Redhawk noted, the produce is super tasty and the soil life loves it.

Hi Redhawk.
My garden is recently cleared oak forest with stumps intact.  There is sc orange  clay soil that drains well. Last year the potatos grew to half an inch instead of full sized.  It has earthworms and snails ladybugs stink bugs and big black ants.  It's all on a 1:6 n facing slope.  
I need to grow food fast.  I broke up the mat of roots and decayed leaves on the surface and mixed it with the orange clay soil beneath and added lime and some wood ash.  It needs more nitrogen.  I bought some ca nitrate.  Can I put a very small amount in to get things jumpstarted without hurting the worms and good bacteria too much?  Nothing wants to grow but I have grown about 5 huge daikon after scattering hundred of seeds.  My radishes and  turnips only grew to one inch but my dads are three in high.  Similar weather.  Temperature max 65 F and min 35.  
Also I want to make use of all the leaves and urine but don't want to smell it at all.  How can I make a completely inoffensive smellin leaf compost pile that has lots of microbes?  I got molasses hoRse salt lick and can  chop the leaves with a weedwaker. Thanks

Hello Dr Redhawk. Do you  think your super soil can equal the amount of harvest in a chemically fertilize farm. And how about  the amount of work invested. I have concerns over the prohibitive price  of chemical fertelizer in the near future due to many things but primarily due to the cost of petrol.

Thanks

Ian

@ unanswered requests here from new members so to make sure I will comment.
Skip:
Soil is a living thing that grows from the top down.  So the worst thing to do when a forest canopy is removed is to mix the forest floor debris into the dirt exposing the living organisms or suffocating them.  Now that the trees will not keep adding to the surface cover of the soil you need to bring the covering material and let it compost on the surface of the soil. no worrying about a smelly pile.

Ian:
Think of it this way Super Soil is an environment in which food can grow.
Chemically fertilized dirt may grow plants which are not necessarily healthy enough to be food. It mines the environment to produce these plants requiring more mining to produce again until no resources remain.

So we must be humble, the word comes from the word for soil humus, and feed the soil with our manual [word for hands] labor, then it will feed us.