permaculture bootcamp - learn permaculture through a little hard work

Chloe Kincheloe wrote:And as of June 10, 2017 are there any boots to roots spots available?
Since i am brand new to this forum I  do have a question. I was wondering if you would consider allowing someone to come say for three months of year for six years to complete the bootcamp?
I am living in Florida year-round but would love to escape the summer heat!

Welcome to the forums Chloe! We were so busy with our PDC and ATC workshops in June that we missed your post! Sorry about that. I added your question here to the bootcamp thread because it's a good one.

Yes, there are boots spots available and someone could come here for three months of the year and work off the bootcamp over several years instead of all in one span of time. That sounds really smart in several ways!

What a great opportunity to quit my day job! Boy I want this! Doing my due diligence, though. Are the pictures in the thread here from boot camp? Looks like fun people to work with?

Looks like the PDC is over. Would new boot campers get to attend next years PDC? Will there be one? Word on the interwebs is that it probably won't happen and if it does the instructors won't be the same. The courses are a big reason to go so it would be helpful to have some guarantees before forking over my Benjamins.  The Ant Village workers have posted lots, but I can't seem to find any boot experiences. Are they in another thread? Definitely, want some of their input before handing in the resignation.  

All of the pictures are from here.  Animals come and go.  People come and go.  

There will be a PDC and ATC next year.  Same instructors - I think it is cool that "the interwebs" find us so interesting as to speculate that we might have more or different instructors.  And we have our rocket mass heater workshop jamboree this year.

If you look earlier in this thread you will see the boots working on the couch balcony and willowonka.

Dave Armstrong wrote:What a great opportunity to quit my day job! Boy I want this! Doing my due diligence, though..  

For a person considering quitting their job and travelling to Montana to be a boot, the most important due diligence would be to listen to at least a couple hundred of Paul's podcasts.  Make sure you include all the recent ones about Wheaton Labs.  It's called Wheaton Laboratories for a reason, the land is Paul's and he's got some particular preferences as to how things go.  Stuff like - no plywood, no paint, no pesticides of any kind.  If you find that your values align with Paul's, and you are willing to work on projects at the lab, you should have a lovely time.  If you think that only some of what Paul says makes sense, and other stuff sounds stupid, don't quit your day job!

I've been there a couple of times and I find it lovely.  I'm too old and have too many responsibilities to drop everything and go there, but I applaud those who do.  I think some important work is being done there.  I'd love to hear more about how nice it is to have an earth sheltered home when the temperature is in the 90's.  I really think that the future is in earth sheltered homes, especially as we keep breaking heat records.

Just added this to the first post about attending long enough to get deep roots:

This is the path we most want to emphasize.   At the same time, we wish to fill the bootcamp program quickly and get to work.   To that end, we offer the following:

To the first person that hits the 12 month mark in the bootcamp, they get a deep roots package after just 12 months.
To the first person that hits the 14 month mark in the bootcamp, they get a deep roots package after just 14 months.
To the first person that hits the 16 month mark in the bootcamp, they get a deep roots package after just 16 months.
To the first person that hits the 18 month mark in the bootcamp, they get a deep roots package after just 18 months.
To the first person that hits the 20 month mark in the bootcamp, they get a deep roots package after just 20 months.
To the first person that hits the 22 month mark in the bootcamp, they get a deep roots package after just 22 months.

For everybody else, it is 24 months.  

Back in january, we had six people lined up for the bootcamp program and they were all in it for the deep roots.   Five of them never showed up and one of them left after about three days.

Since then we had some people do work trade for the PDC/ATC stuff.   And now there are three people coming.   So if three more people were to show up, then we would have six people working toward that one year mark.  

This bootcamp sounds like an exciting opportunity. I am willing to do some dirty to get hands on permaculture experience. I would be looking to stay at least long enough to learn things in the PDC. After wrapping things up at home I could be there by September this year. If there is an opening please let me know here, or my email is karaevelyn0523@gmail.com

There are currently three openings.  

Send over your hundred bucks and we will get things rolling.

This looks very interesting and the optimist in me hopes that you continue boot camps for several more years. I suppose I've hit my "midlife crisis" at age 44, as I'm making plans for retiring at 50 (when I can start getting my pension from work), selling my SoCal house, and moving to the PNW region where I hope to buy a couple dozen acres and build my own place with the equity from my current place. Desk job behind a PC in an area with 1 season a year is feeling like a waste of my life.

Since it's several years out it's all just words right now... I'm going to a RMH workshop and cob work week at Cob Cottage this fall for the first time (to literally get my feet wet), and will start looking for land. I can see coming out to the labs for a year or two just to learn could be really handy, as most of the affordable land I've seen so far is after the owner has cleared the timber and the fir is all 5-10' tall... so buying something and planting more diverse species with a plan towards coppicing some for fuel and others for food production, and giving it some time to grow, would leave me with plenty of time to live somewhere else and hopefully learn  the right way to do things rather than learn through mistakes on my own.

I'm a fan of Mike Oehler's design and the Wofati and seeing the design evolve online in real time is fun, but getting out to be hands-on would be even better. Until I retire the best I can do is flying out there for 2 week chunks as I accrue the time, which I doubt is long enough to get past the orientation phase and would end up just wasting the time of those there trying to get me up to speed, just in time for me to leave again. But perhaps I can time some visits around classes and offer some manual labor while there and learn through osmosis.

Fingers crossed, down the road I could come out for longer stints to help others with projects while getting my own property up to speed.

I think it is possible to come out for a week or two here and there and start racking up the months.

Excellent! I'm working my way through the podcasts, there's a bunch of them! So are there particular times of year that would be better for extra bodies to show up? I would guess frozen logs and ground during winter would be wise to avoid, so perhaps some time after that? I can start some initial planning for being gone for a week or two based on what times of year work best, and will keep an eye out for any classes coming up as well.

John Namazi wrote:Excellent! I'm working my way through the podcasts, there's a bunch of them! So are there particular times of year that would be better for extra bodies to show up? I would guess frozen logs and ground during winter would be wise to avoid, so perhaps some time after that? I can start some initial planning for being gone for a week or two based on what times of year work best, and will keep an eye out for any classes coming up as well.

We work all year.

During the winter is the best time to do forestry work and run the sawmill.  It is also a great time to maintain equipment and build stuff in the shop.  And I am working on an especially amazing class to happen in the winter.  

Winter is the perfect time to build junkpole fence at basecamp.  It is not possible, as basecamp, to put posts in the ground, so we have to make rock jacks.  

Winter is a good time to make skiddable structures next to the shop.  When the structures are done, we can move them where we need them.

Winter is the best time to really understand the value of all the rocket mass heaters we have.  And to build experience with each of them.   And because we have so many rocket mass heaters, this place might be one of the best cold climate places to be in the winter.  

----

The best time to arrive is:  now.

Started listening to Paul's podcasts and there is a ton of em. Any recommended ones to listen to before coming for the bootcamp?

Kara Haltom wrote:Started listening to Paul's podcasts and there is a ton of em. Any recommended ones to listen to before coming for the bootcamp?

The 21 podcasts where we review sepp holzer's book.

The podcasts with jacqueline freeman.

The raw milk podcast with sally fallon morell.

The podcasts with helen atthowe.

The podcasts with geoff lawton.

I think the rocket mass heater podcasts are excellent, but you gotta be into rocket mass heaters.

Podcast 111 comes up a lot.

The poop beast podcasts

Podcasts with toby hemenway.

Hey Guys,
I am looking to spend a week at Wheaton Labs at the end of August and have sent the $100 through Paypal. Are there any openings left in the Boot program? I'm starting my first semester at UMT in ecological restoration, but my hearts in the hands on work of homesteading, and im sure I'll be missing it once the semester starts. I've done some permy stuff before, and would like to get involved in as much as possible in the short time I have.

Ira Moll wrote:Hey Guys,
I am looking to spend a week at Wheaton Labs at the end of August and have sent the $100 through Paypal. Are there any openings left in the Boot program? I'm starting my first semester at UMT in ecological restoration, but my hearts in the hands on work of homesteading, and im sure I'll be missing it once the semester starts. I've done some permy stuff before, and would like to get involved in as much as possible in the short time I have.

Got the hundred smackers.  You are set to come to bootcamp.   Hopefully Jocelyn and Fred will get your details squared away in the next few days.

Hey sounds good I look forward to experiencing the place

This is fred:



Fred came and worked and now he has his acre of deep roots.

And he runs the bootcamp now.  

I just wanted to point this out so that if folks want to know if we are serious about giving out an acre to folks in the bootcamp, you can ask fred.

Yay Fred, awesome!!!

Shiny new video about the bootcamp!



Fred Tyler (acting land manager and bootcamp coordinator for Wheaton Labs) explains what the permaculture bootcamp at Wheaton Labs is and benefits for the participants.  The Bootcamp program in a nutshell: work on permaculture and homesteading projects, get a bunk and some basic food staples.   You pay $100, work, and then receive tickets to our events or even an acre of land. Participants get experience with:
   - using a variety of rocket mass heaters
         - harvesting wood for building, burning, hugelkultur, mulch, etc.
         - building furniture and structures from roundwood
         - building fences
         - building with cob
         - earthworks, ponds, hugelkultur
         - permaculture gardening
         - cooking
         - cooking with wood fired stuff
         - wildcrafting
         - solving homesteading issues
         - scything

Fred points out how people come and build skills and exchange skills.  Fred went through the program and now has two acres.  A recent project included a lot of roundwood timber framing.  In the video we see Michelle and Tuesday harvesting sunchokes with Fred.

Cliff Ponder, a bootcamp participant talks about his experiences in bootcamp learning round wood timber framing with master artisan Bear Paw and Nick Fouch.  Cliff was here for a couple of months and then attended the permaculture design course and appropriate technology course for free - as a sort of work trade.  Cliff talks about building paddocks with our junkpole fence style and rock jacks (above-ground fence posts used in rocky terrain).

Permaculture Bootcamp at Wheaton Labs:
https://permies.com/t/59706/permaculture-projects/permaculture-bootcamp-learn-permaculture-hard

Thanks to Dan Ohmann of The Grass-fed Homestead channel for help with the editing:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCc2ka-aGChwIiX0mEXzfmoA

Relevant permies links:

https://permies.com
https://permies.com/forums
https://permies.com/t/59706/permaculture-bootcamp
https://permies.com/t/65315/couch-balcony
https://permies.com/t/24680/deep-roots
https://permies.com/t/39351/rock-jack
https://permies.com/t/47946/junkpole-fence
https://permies.com/t/53764/sunchokes
https://permies.com/pdc
https://permies.com/f/81/timber
https://permies.com/f/102/labs

music by Jimmy Pardo
https://permies.com/t/30796/Jimmy-Pardo


Thanks to my patreon peeps for pushing me into making videos again!

Julia Mason
Josh Phillips
wade L
Jason Hower
Bill Crim
Chris Holly
Doug Barth
James Tutor
Mark Allen
Kelton Mitchell
David Ingraham

http://patreon.com/paulwheaton

UPDATE!   See this thread.


When we started the bootcamp program, we said "48 hours per week.  40 hours on projects and 8 hours for immediate benefit to the boots (cleaning, harvesting, maintenance ...)"   --  Several people pointed out that that was silly because people will be adverse to anything more than 40 hours, and people will naturally clean up after themselves and do the things that need to be done.  

It turns out that there is a lot of truth to that:  the people we have now are quite good at cooking for themselves and keeping things pretty clean.  But when we talk about some stuff, we realized we needed some vocabulary improvements, so yesterday we came up with this:


project labor:  40 hours per week.   Working on lab projects.  Building stuff - mostly.  During a workshop this could include all sorts of different support.   Could include planting/mulching gardens for boots.  Or canning food.  Large repairs.  Most of the benefit is for beyond the next month.

nest labor:  4 to 8 hours per week.  Mostly cleaning up after boots and supporting the boots.  The idea is that if you have a 40 hour a week job, then after the 40 hours, you still come home and clean your house, shop for groceries (or harvest food via wildcrafting or from a garden).  Shoveling snow, sweeping, cleaning the showers, minor repairs ...  most of the benefit is within the next month.  Sometimes this is direction from fred and sometimes boots come up with ideas of things they would like to do.  Maybe there can be some stuff that boots do for future boots that isn't exactly a "must have" but more of a "it would be cool to have" ??

bounty labor:  Evening/weekend projects that could result in coin or fysh.  Some folks like to have a little extra jingle in their pocket.  For cell phones, or clothes or tasty treats from the good food store ...  We are prepared to put up a couple hundred bucks per boot per month once the boot is good and settled in.

free time:  for doing your laundry, reading, researching stuff on the internet, sleeping, goofing off, etc.  



Any suggestions for more vocabulary/clarity?  What have we left out?


(gotta give credit to jocelyn for thinking of the word "nest" - before that, all the words we were coming up with sounded really stupid)

enticing offer. id be down for doing this some day. but i need more committment on your part, if im going to invest time and resources into your land, i need some sort of guarantee of access as long as certain basic agreements are made. also, if i did extra work, was bringing in my own skills, and tools, could i work the acre id be aquiring in the end? also how is this managed? is it a co-op, llc or proprietorship, non profit, etc? id like to know what kind of accountability, if any, there is to what is being offered?

Paul,

Any suggestions for more vocabulary/clarity?  What have we left out?

I just finished reading this thread and some of the other threads linked here (half a day gone just like that! ), ants, roots, myriad of programs, this and that all kinds of cutesy little names of places trying to get it all squared away.
wow.  A whole lot of info. I think, just possibly, I finally get what your doing with these programs.

And also just watched your most recent video on this thread about your goals/ambitions for permaculture and the future.

So, after reading some of the issues from people and thinking about this, and my own situation and friends that like similar ideas such as yours,
I keep thinking about the "FAMILY". It's not just the young single go getter that want to do, or try to do such things in life.

In my humble opinion, which may carry no value, I think one thing would be  to create something more specific for those with kids (yes, I read that thread as well).
It seems that you have slowly changed your view from four years ago due to some factors, and that there Are some families that do stay, at least a part of the time.

Whether you need to sequester these kids and their parents in a different area, treat them a little differently, put them all in a corral, whatever it is, I think this will greatly grow your "dream".
Families would benefit from being with each other just from a kids play perspective, but also parents relating to each other with dealing with the kids, the messes, and all the issues that come with parenting and living and blah blah blah.
From what I read on FB in the homesteading/off grid groups and so on, there are soooo many people wanting to get into this lifestyle, realizing or not realizing what it will actually entail.
And soooo many people don't seem able to have the ability to do this, so I think what your offering may be a great start for some.

From what I read it seems you have already been thinking hard about these issues and have already made some changes.
Of course I state all of this without knowing the layout of the land in which your operate, so, ahem...perhaps another dumb assertion on my part.

Perhaps I'm wrong, just my two jiao (if anybody gets that), so far, I think the idea is a pretty interesting one, and I like your persnickety-ness (reminds me of me, and i like me) that I recently got reprimanded on this site for weeding out the "interesting" ones...with no apples given to me!  
I actually got my ONLY apple taken away from me...ugh.

And a question,

Not that i'm against any archaic laws perpetuated by the old white oligarchy establishment that rules our lands,  but WHY no beautiful Herb Smoking?
Forgive me if it's in the hundreds of podcasts, but I'm too old and may pass on before I can get through those.

This matter is discussed on this thread - smoking, pot, hooch, drugs ....

like to know more technical details. are folks free to explore different systems on their own acre once rented, or is how we use the land up to paul? like can folks use conventional tunnels, or maybe a passive greenhouse integrated into a hillside? season extension is my primary focus right now, but some permaculturalists, tending towards primitivist purity, dont consider these things permaculture. how is what is considered permaculture defined, by paul i presume, judging from his general attitude, but is there any sort of ongoing dialogue, advisory/research committee that is working on this stuff, exploring really what it means to be and/or do permaculture. i think it is as much a social process as it is an ecological one, and how we make decisions and form strategies and methods should be integrated into the methods themselves.

Michael Jay Anthony wrote:enticing offer. id be down for doing this some day. but i need more committment on your part, if im going to invest time and resources into your land, i need some sort of guarantee of access as long as certain basic agreements are made. also, if i did extra work, was bringing in my own skills, and tools, could i work the acre id be aquiring in the end? also how is this managed? is it a co-op, llc or proprietorship, non profit, etc? id like to know what kind of accountability, if any, there is to what is being offered?

Paul is out helping guide preparations for the rocket mass heater workshop jamboree that starts here on Friday, though we talked about your post over coffee this morning.

Paul told me that he thinks at least some of your questions might already be addressed in the deep roots thread. Or, if not, that would be the place to ask for clarifications. He'd like to keep this thread more about the bootcamp particulars, and deep roots information in the deep roots thread.

We talked about the points raised by jim dee as well, though I'm not sure if Paul will have time to reply until later. Thanks, Burra, for your help with the one point.

Our current boots are helping with the jamboree preparations, helping fire up and maintain some of our 12 RMHs on the property, and asking tons of good questions of Paul, Fred, and now Kirk Mobert (aka "Donkey") who is the first innovator on site so far - more to arrive soon. So I think they are pretty stoked about the RMH learning opportunities here.

Michael Jay Anthony wrote: i need more committment on your part, if im going to invest time and resources into your land, i need some sort of guarantee of access as long as certain basic agreements are made.

Then I think this is not a fit for you.

Here is the cornerstone of this dealio:  either of us can end this agreement at any time.  

So, this arrangement is a lot like wwoofing.  But with wwoofing, you don't get an acre, nor do you get to exchange a PDC, ATC or access to the rocket mass heater jamboree.  

The key component to this community is as an alternative to a consensus based system.   We all wish to live in a community for many decades.  And do all the things that we wish.   But you run the risk of getting kicked out by the community, only you don't find out why until it happens.   I wish to build a perennial community where people stay for a very long time. After all, permaculture is a perennial system.  So how do we expel folks that don't meet our standards?  

So if you are already seeking guarantees it sounds like you fully expect to be the sort of community member we might expell.  

I get the impression that people that are very familiar with me and my body of work can make a choice ahead of time on how long they would last here and what might be the sort of thing that could end up with expulsion.   Most people would choose to not come here - and that works out awesome for everybody.    And there are a very few that will say "hell yes, I wanna come!" and that also works well for everybody.

I suppose it is possible that some people will come for the bootcamp and not want anything in return - they just want the experience.  And that's cool too.

And some people will come with their eyes on the acre, but after a few months think "nah, changed my mind."   and that's cool too.

also, if i did extra work, was bringing in my own skills, and tools, could i work the acre id be aquiring in the end? also how is this managed?

It is possible that something could be arranged.

jim dee wrote:In my humble opinion, which may carry no value, I think one thing would be  to create something more specific for those with kids (yes, I read that thread as well).
It seems that you have slowly changed your view from four years ago due to some factors, and that there Are some families that do stay, at least a part of the time.

We have been through a lot of different things with kids.  

At one point I offered "peanut village" but there were no takers.  I think the idea would work if there were, say, four families.  

From what I read on FB in the homesteading/off grid groups and so on, there are soooo many people wanting to get into this lifestyle, realizing or not realizing what it will actually entail.
And soooo many people don't seem able to have the ability to do this, so I think what your offering may be a great start for some.

Agreed.

And, at the same time, out of the thousands that would love to come for an opportunity like this, I am looking for just six at this time.   So we thin the herd with a bunch of parameters.

I recently got reprimanded on this site for weeding out the "interesting" ones...with no apples given to me!  
I actually got my ONLY apple taken away from me...ugh.

There are some folks that got a dozen apples before they even got a dozen posts.   And there are some folks with 300 posts and zero apples.  

There is a path to the apples.  Think of it as a game and the apples will come.

Michael Jay Anthony wrote: are folks free to explore different systems on their own acre once rented, or is how we use the land up to paul? like can folks use conventional tunnels, or maybe a passive greenhouse integrated into a hillside?

Excellent question.  

Folks are free to explore different systems as long as it fits within my comfort zone.  

In fact, the design of the whole project is to have 20 artisans in seed and soil express their art on the land.  And then there will be an annual tour of all the residents to see all of the the other residences for a massive exchange of ideas.  I hope that this accelerates the future of permaculture.

Tunnels would be allowed, but discouraged.  Greenhouses need to have a horizontal footprint of less than 100 square feet.  But a person could have more than one greenhouse.

An update from first month at the bootcamp from my perspective.

Update on first month

update on first month continued..

...continuation of first month update. Apologies for the oversharpened image, next time I will be using a different better file converter.  Weekdays are filled with homestead projects. A few days gathering firewood. A few times sharpening chainsaws and chisels after heavy use. Half of this months time has been dedicated to raising Alerton Abbey. Took down the wall for construction.  We added three additional support post. And verticalized two main posts. Also added footers to distribute structures weight. The other project of canning kitchen on mobile skids is underway. Its complete enough to put in a RMH during upcoming jamboree. Rafters were harvested from burnt area of forest. Many hours of log peeling after that. Learning a lot about notching roundwood. And getting buildings all level and supported. Will post more by end of the year on projects. Weekends are relaxing with opportunities for more work. Got to do some awesome things with new friends. Found great things while dumpster diving. Collected berries. Harvested hundreds of pounds of apples. Made cider. Celebrated J's birthday. Seen a circus in town. Wo knew Missoula could be fun?

Many Blessings on your day

I'm interested to come out in February and wonder if in the winter there will be a warm place to stay?

Yes!   All of the boots are brought inside in the winter.  In the past, we have had some people who tented at a time that I would have thought of as far too cold.  But I guess they like the extra privacy and a spot where they can really let their hair down.  

For staying inside, we do ask for things to be kept clean.  And some people find this a bit frustrating.

But, some people really enjoy getting to try out the different rocket mass heaters.

Kara Haltom wrote:...continuation of first month update. Apologies for the oversharpened image, next time I will be using a different better file converter.  Weekdays are filled with homestead projects. A few days gathering firewood. A few times sharpening chainsaws and chisels after heavy use. Half of this months time has been dedicated to raising Alerton Abbey. Took down the wall for construction.  We added three additional support post. And verticalized two main posts. Also added footers to distribute structures weight. The other project of canning kitchen on mobile skids is underway. Its complete enough to put in a RMH during upcoming jamboree. Rafters were harvested from burnt area of forest. Many hours of log peeling after that. Learning a lot about notching roundwood. And getting buildings all level and supported. Will post more by end of the year on projects. Weekends are relaxing with opportunities for more work. Got to do some awesome things with new friends. Found great things while dumpster diving. Collected berries. Harvested hundreds of pounds of apples. Made cider. Celebrated J's birthday. Seen a circus in town. Wo knew Missoula could be fun?

Many Blessings on your day

Thanks for sharing yOUR pictures here, with all of OUR Permies.com peeps, sister Kara!  It has been a joy-full experience BEing a “Boot” with you and J and the others who have come thru over the past 60 days!  Here, for those same permie-peeps who are interested in more images of the playing WE have in-joyed on BaseCamp and The Lab, are the shots I have taken...

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10214268768571663&type=1&l=4c2c020824

Hello Permies!

I stumbled into Paul Wheaton's videos while doing research on a waste oil burning stove. I'm really interested in the boot camp program.

What is the application procedure?

A little about me: I am a recent graduate in Environmental Science from UW - Madison. I am an engineer at heart however. I have some work experience in pulp and paper, art studios, and chemical engineering.

I am new to the forums. I see the deadline for application is coming up. I will scour the forums for more information in the mean time. Thanks! Looking forward to hearing back from someone.

Jimmy