Going poo-less: No Shampoo/Soap in the Shower

Nancy Reading wrote:Next step soapless, which will be more of a challenge. Getting past the bad body odour possibilities, so I need a plan for this!

I recommend to go boldly forward and just see what results you get!  No plan necessary.  Of course, everybody is different, both in preferences and in body chemistry, but I a suspect most of your apprehension is just in your head.

When I first abandoned the use of soap in the shower - more than a few years ago now - it was the easiest thing I ever did.  No greasy transition period, no increased body odor.  Just one less step for the same results.  Lots of hot water!  That's what I recommend for your plan : )

Having said that, I take showers.  You bathe.  I can't personally attest to how that might change the dynamics and affect your results.

Nancy, since you liked my 1 year update from a year ago here’s another.

My hair only really gets washed now if it gets really dirty, smoke or major dust, even then hot water only.
It’s still just past shoulder length, it reached terminal length about 10 years ago..

If I working on the bikes and get greasy, I’m as likely to got for the dish detergent as for the hand soap but I try to wear gloves.

I shower dailyish with just hot water, deodorant is just one of those rock crystals (lasts for months!) and comb hair twice every day.
I clean my comb as I go, as it does gather sebum deposits.

My only ‘conventional’ practices are dental, brush twice a day and floss when I remember and cream for my psoriasis. The cream is basically a moisturiser with vitamin D (Calcipotriol / Dovonex).

Question for long-haired poo-less people!

Does it take you longer to wash your hair with just water / other alternative way than what it took when you used shampoo?

I find it takes a bit longer for me. I have been really lazy with washing my hair though, and it might be that if I did it more regularly, it would take a shorter time.


My naturally curly hair love poo-less. I never thought it would be so easy to live with my hair! :D I do use a natural bar shampoo at times (if there's actually something that needs more than water to wash away, and in the swimming hall). I do have seeds for Saponaria officinalis (common soapwort), and I'm planning to move on using to that instead of buying bar shampoos. :)

I do not take showers or baths.

I have long hair (to my waist), i never shampoo or wet it at all, except around once a month when I henna/indigo it. I just 2x daily, "scritch" and "scratch" (fingernail and fingertip scalp massage),  and comb with sandalwood comb and real horn comb. I never use soaps, shampoo, or water at all on my hair, except the henna/indigo paste and rinsing it out, around every 4 weeks. I agree with above mention, of cleaning one's combs every so often of sebum. I use a strip of dental floss to clean between the tines of the combs. I only do this when i notice that combing doesn't seem to be effective on removing grease. Then i know it is time to clean the combs.

For my body, i do a "Tudor" style dry bath (from the book "How to Live Like a Tudor"), with real linen rags and a spritzer bottle of distilled rainwater. The only body part for which i use soap are my feet.

This keeps me smelling sweet all day. I noticed when i went to town and used city water, that i started to smell during the morning. So i re-washed with some of my distilled rainwater which i had packed, and that corrected it!

I have been washing this way for years now. It is nice to be free of the toiletries and also to use so much less water. I have also previously tried soapwort, soapnuts, vinegar, baking soda, and shampoo bars, and this current has worked best for me.

I also just brush my teeth with baking soda, with the blessing of my dentist for over 10 years. Followed with flossing and occasional diluted peroxide swishing for brightening.

Saaana my upper back length hair gets a water only wash onc a month or less except when I’v been near a fire or bbq. If anything, I’ve found it to be quicker when I do wash it.

James, how ofter do you brush your hair? I was just talking about poo-less with a friend and came to the conclusion that the brushing is the key, especially in the beginning. Due to having curls I'm doing that really rarely (basicly only when I'm going to wash my hair, but not every time).

Muahaha, the permaculture response of "it depends" goes here too! Different hair types need different kind of care. :)

Meli, thank you for writing out your routine, I will look up "tudor" style dry bath!

I comb it at least once, preferably twice every day.

I use the comb below, not anything fine tooth!



I usually take just a couple of minutes, I will drag a hem through the tines to remove some of the sebum a couple of times during use.

My hair is fairly curly naturally (ringlets when short), so it spends 99% of the time in a pony tail with the tail being a fairly scraggly mess.

In some answers I saw 'combing' and 'brushing' mentioned. I finally found a wooden comb (again, my last one was broken many years ago, I think it even was before 2000). I knew it was better for my hair to use a wooden comb than a plastic one, but there were no shops in my region selling wooden combs.

Yes, the comb needs cleaning, but that isn't hard to do. I comb my hair two or three times a day (in the morning and the evening, sometimes inbetween too). It is not really long, I had it short for years, but now let it grow a little longer.

I do wash my hair with water, about once a week. Or in fact it isn't my hair I wash, but my scalp. I wait until my head is becoming 'itchy', and then I wash, under the shower. This washing doesn't take long, one or two minutes.

I have a friend that seals her chinaberry soap up in small jars while it's super hot and it keeps very well.


Have been making really effective psoriasis 'poo by boiling up chinaberries (in the neem family), straining then using.
Works soooo much better than any store bought 'poos, even all then natural ones and it's effects last days longer.
Doesn't seem to keep well (week without refrig) but I just make smaller batches.

Everyone around here hates the chinaberry (invasive) but I'm finding many uses for it. Nice wood that cures up very light and is strong. Coppices and pollards like crazy and super fast grower.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melia_azedarach

Mmmm.

I stopped using soap in the shower about 20 years ago except for when I'm really grimy from a particular dirty job.  I'm late 50's and work as an artisan boat builder and run a small holding.  When I stopped using soap I found I rarely got spots or rashes, my skin sensitivity reduced significantly and my skin stopped feeling dry.
I'd used a variety of soaps over the years.
My hands and forearms do get good soaping at times because they do get grubby.

I stopped using shampoo about 10 years ago.  My hair felt pretty thick and grimy for a few weeks and then it was fine.  Occasionally I've had to do work that has meant my hair needed a dam good wash - such as when I lime rendered a straw bale barn and had the lime dust was deep into my hair.  One good was with a general shampoo for normal hair sorts it out and I'm back to water washing again.

Can't see the point in stripping your hair and skin of natural oils when they manage themselves well without intervention.

I am pretty social and run various workshops and used to work as a full time school teacher (so I'm not a smelly hermit) and never had issues with people avoiding my or holding their noses.  

I've been pooless for a few years now, I always give my hair a good rinse in water but nothing else. It keeps well and is comfortable, I did have the itches in the first month as my bod shrugged off all the awful chemicals.  

I've not gone as far as no soap, more research required, although we do use a non-industrially made soap from a croft up the coast called Rose Cottage Croft Soap.

I went on a date the other day with someone I barely know... While she was preparing, she felt worried about not using soap/shampoo. Then she had the thought, "Duh! There is no way that Joseph would be using soap or shampoo".

Sure enough, we talked and discovered that we are kindred spirits -- that we value the microbes that live on us, and mistrust the chemicals found in soaps.

The Guardian published an article titled Soap Dodger: Meet the Doctor Who Says we have been Showering Wrong

Yet despite advances in skincare and modern medicine, conditions such as acne, eczema and psoriasis, as well as other autoimmune diseases, have been rising steadily.

Hamblin also highlights the bare-faced cheek behind the rise of the skincare industry, as soap progressed from a multipurpose, often homemade product to a seemingly infinite parade of near-identical concoctions advertised for different problems, genders and occasions, at wildly different prices. Once hooked on daily soapings that remove our natural oils, we needed moisturisers and hair conditioners to replace them. In the 50s, the industry further cashed in by highlighting the drying effects of soap and offering milder detergents. Today, Hamblin writes, we have come full circle; many people seek products that are “as close as possible to nothing at all”.  

Microbiologists have found that hunter-gatherers and Amish people, who work together on farms from childhood, have optimally diverse microbiomes and minimal chances of contracting autoimmune conditions and associated inflammation. Urban westerners who want to boost their more modest skin microbes would benefit from close contact with other people and animals, and from spending as much time as possible in nature, preferably getting dirty.  

Look at our very serious and totally legit new ad for the latest permies product, available now everywhere in the world:

Have tried washing my hair less throughout the week. It is very long and I only wash my scalp with soap. between times when I get too oily, I sprinkle and brush/rub in cornflour as a "dry shampoo"  
Interested in going total shampoo free.

I have been "poo-less" for over a year and also stopped putting any soap on my face. I occasionally use unscented lotion or oil to moisturize if my skin is very dry, but I've found I mostly don't get acne anymore. I do use Rhassoul clay on my hair once or twice a week, and rinse with ACV. This is because we have very hard water. I would love to stop using the clay, or go longer between, but I do find that the itch gets to be unbearable after a while. I use a boar bristle brush but am not good about brushing every single day. I am curious to learn more about the comb method and why that is better. Does anyone who only uses water and a comb still experience flaking and itching?

Andrés Bernal wrote:Look at our very serious and totally legit new ad for the latest permies product, available now everywhere in the world:

Brilliant!

I've used no shampoo for over a year and love how my hair feels using the 'latest permies product'!!

Sunny Kahlo wrote:I have been "poo-less" for over a year and also stopped putting any soap on my face. I occasionally use unscented lotion or oil to moisturize if my skin is very dry, but I've found I mostly don't get acne anymore. I do use Rhassoul clay on my hair once or twice a week, and rinse with ACV. This is because we have very hard water. I would love to stop using the clay, or go longer between, but I do find that the itch gets to be unbearable after a while. I use a boar bristle brush but am not good about brushing every single day. I am curious to learn more about the comb method and why that is better. Does anyone who only uses water and a comb still experience flaking and itching?

Hi Sunny. I don't know if I understand what you mean. I use only water for my hair and skin (for many years) and I use a comb. I don't think combing is better than brushing. There are so many different hair-types: thick, thin, curly, straight, etc. Some types are easier to comb, others are easier to brush. It depends on what you're used to too. When I was young I did both: first brushing and then combing, and braiding. Back in those days all hair-brushes had boar bristles, but now those are very hard to find (it's all synthetics). I was happy to find a wooden comb.

About itching: yes, after about a week my scalp gets itchy. To me that means: it's time to wash my hair again!

What 'flaking' do you mean? I do have 'dandruff'; always had it and still since I stopped using shampoo/soap. Maybe it's less now than before, but it is still there. I consider this 'normal'. Outer skin layers age and flake off, also in other parts of the body. When it's on the scalp it stays between the hairs, so it is more visible. I don't think this has anything to do with using shampoo or not. (but I might be wrong)

First, thanks to Permies people for furnishing the inspiration for me to become soap-less.

This thread inspired me a couple years ago to go shampoo-less and soap-less. Well, let's say 98% less of that stuff now, because I still wash my hands as needed with soap, and very rarely use soap on other body parts, only in the event of major dirtiness.

I'll describe the process of my change here, some advantages and disadvantages, and some things I discovered on the way, including the use of pumice stones.

When I started going soap-less, the first couple weeks I felt a bit itchy, but my body adapted and I haven't looked back.  Hair is fine, and body is fine. I felt completely "normal" again within a few weeks. Less expense, fewer chemicals: win-win.

An unexpected benefit of soap-less living is that there has been FAR less mess and cleanup necessary in the bathtub/shower. I hardly have to clean at all there now, if I'm the only one using it. Unfortunately, it's hard convincing family to also go soap-less!

One disadvantage of soap-less living is that I don't exfoliate as much. I guess soap might soften the skin so that the outer layer rubs off more easily. Just rinsing and light rubbing with water doesn't seem to accomplish this unless I do a long warm soak. So when my skin starts seeming too "thick", or looks a bit grayish, then--the next time I take a warm bath or a hot shower--I will rub my arms, legs, and face with, say, a towel that is a bit rough. That'll get the excess skin off, so I feel "baby-fresh". Might help to have a little strainer in the tub drain in order to catch and discard the skin bits.

As part of my soap-less journey, I discovered the effectiveness of using pumice stones instead of soap. I read that ancient Romans used pumice stones and skin-scrapers instead of soap. I tried pumice stones, and found that they work great at getting tough stains (like dried paint or oil or ink stains) off of fingers. Dried paint on fingers seems to just dissolve when rubbed with a chunk of pumice. Just avoid rubbing the more delicate areas of skin too hard, like the inside of the wrist, because you might break the skin there. Pumice "sticks" are available in a lot of hardware stores in the cleaning section, and natural pumice stones are available very cheaply at Mexican stores where I live. Pumice is sold for the use of cleaning scaling off of toilets or other hard surfaces, but now I mostly use it for hand-washing.

I definitely encourage others now to go soapless. No soap, no problem!

Kit Collins wrote:First, thanks to Permies people...
One disadvantage of soap-less living is that I don't exfoliate as much. I guess soap might soften the skin so that the outer layer rubs off more easily. Just rinsing and light rubbing with water doesn't seem to accomplish this unless I do a long warm soak. So when my skin starts seeming too "thick", or looks a bit grayish, then--the next time I take a warm bath or a hot shower--I will rub my arms, legs, and face with, say, a towel that is a bit rough. That'll get the excess skin off, so I feel "baby-fresh". Might help to have a little strainer in the tub drain in order to catch and discard the skin bits.

As part of my soap-less journey, I discovered the effectiveness of using pumice stones instead of soap. I read that ancient Romans used pumice stones and skin-scrapers instead of soap. I tried pumice stones, and found that they work great at getting tough stains (like dried paint or oil or ink stains) off of fingers. Dried paint on fingers seems to just dissolve when rubbed with a chunk of pumice. Just avoid rubbing the more delicate areas of skin too hard, like the inside of the wrist, because you might break the skin there. Pumice "sticks" are available in a lot of hardware stores in the cleaning section, and natural pumice stones are available very cheaply at Mexican stores where I live. Pumice is sold for the use of cleaning scaling off of toilets or other hard surfaces, but now I mostly use it for hand-washing.

I definitely encourage others now to go soapless. No soap, no problem!

Thank you for the reminder. There's such a stone somewhere in my bathroom, but I forgot to use it.
I think using it will help me with 'exfoliation'. Now in the cold season, being covered in clothes all the time, no problem, but when it's warmer especially my legs can look more 'presentable' if I exfoliate them more often.

Kit Collins wrote:.....
One disadvantage of soap-less living is that I don't exfoliate as much. I guess soap might soften the skin so that the outer layer rubs off more easily. Just rinsing and light rubbing with water doesn't seem to accomplish this unless I do a long warm soak. So when my skin starts seeming too "thick", or looks a bit grayish, then--the next time I take a warm bath or a hot shower--I will rub my arms, legs, and face with, say, a towel that is a bit rough. That'll get the excess skin off, so I feel "baby-fresh". Might help to have a little strainer in the tub drain in order to catch and discard the skin bits.
.....

I use a body brush. I have a hand-sized oval one for my whole body, and a smaller one with a pumice on one side and a brush on the other for my feet. Once in a while I scrub my feet really well, and then while my cuticles are still soft I push them back with my fingernails. "Pedicure" done, lol.

Baking soda and vinegar hair:
As for my hair, lately I've been using shampoo since I moved and didn't have my usual toiletries with me, but I'm going to start my favorite method again:
In the shower, I put about a tsp-TB of baking soda in my hand and drizzle some water on it, making a paste. I rub the paste onto my scalp. It feels rough; definitely something to get used to. I rinse it out. Then I pour a 1/2 inch of apple cider vinegar into a cup, add shower water, and pour it through my hair. I leave it while I wash my body, then sorta-kinda rinse it out. You can leave it in; it won't smell once your hair is dry either way.

I have a transition period when I switch off shampoo, like some others said, where it feels sticky or weird. My advice during the first couple weeks is to NOT wash it (I mean even with the baking soda and vinegar; never use shampoo again) unless it visibly looks greasy. Bear with it and only wash it if you'd be embarrassed to be seen, lol. After 2-3 weeks I fall into a natural timeframe of washing it about twice a week.

PS - Don't use the baking soda labeled "Fridge and freezer". It is a lot more coarse - as coarse as salt - and doesn't turn into a paste as well, and feels like some of it stays on your scalp.

Hi. I posted several times in this thread.
I have been totally 'poo-less' (and soap-less') for many years. I'm sure it's over ten years, but don't know exactly.

The least two years I was growing my hair longer and longer. But I found out it became harder to 'wash' my scalp really clean under the shower. I have very thick hair.
Some days ago I finally made the decision: I want my hair short again. For the reason mentioned above, and more reasons.

So I went to the hairdressers, yesterday. She first cut off the ponytail. And then she started combing and deviding my hair in locks. She said it was hard to get the comb through, it was very fatty. Myself I never had problems with combing, but my wooden comb is not that fine.
Anyway: she cut it nice and short. See photo:  ...

... And then she started washing my hair! With shampoo!
I asked myself: what will this do to my hair and my scalp??? I hope it doesn't do any harm. At the other side it did feel 'nice and clean' and the shampoo had a good smell (like coconut).

I don't want to return to washing my hair weekly with store-bought shampoo. But maybe there is something I can make myself, from natural ingredients, to use when my scalp feels fatty or itchy?

I stopped using store -bought hair products about 6 months ago. In my previous life, I washed and conditioned my hair almost daily. I would then promptly gunk up my seemingly clean hair with various hair products and dry the hell out of it in an effort to “style” my hair. By the time I was done, I would have used 4-5 different overly-priced products and murdered any natural compounds my body tried to create.
It’s incredible how much we have to unlearn in order to learn how to live without the indoctrinated consumerism. I stopped using all chemicals and began to learn what works best for my hair. I think that is what’s most important, one size does not fit all. It is my belief that trying on a few different practices and/or habits is the best way to find your fit.
I started with just water. Every 2-3 days I would massage my wet scalp for 4-5 minutes. Massage helps unclogs the pores and promotes hair growth and regeneration. After 3-4 weeks my hair started to feel like it was becoming a dreadlock and my scalp was itchy. I tried an apple cider vinegar rinse. I used a teaspoon of ACV to a cup of water (double if you have more than 8 inches of hair). I used it as a rinse after massaging my scalp with water. Incredible. My hair was soft, naturally curly and my scalp got some much needed relief. I have found now that ACV is a good “reset” for my hair after 6-8 weeks, like a deep cleaning.
I then learned about yucca root. Yucca contains saponins and acts as a fantastic, mild detergent with a faint earthy/woody smell. I would steep 1 tablespoon into a cup of warm water (double for more than 8 inches of hair) the morning prior to bathing. Then I would use the mixture as a rinse after I massaged my scalp for 4-5 minutes. I found my hair felt incredibly clean but, slightly dry. I also made a hair freshener from distilled water, rosemary and sage extracts. If you have any grey hair, this mixture will give a great shine to them.
I wasn’t fully satisfied with yucca, I think it is likely better served on thicker and/or oilier hair. So, I tried soapnuts next. They also contain saponins but, don’t seem to be as harsh. I prepare the soapnuts in basically the same way, toss 3-4 broken or crushed nuts into some hot (not boiling) water in the morning and let it steep until my bath in the evening. Soapnuts can be reused 3-4 times so, toss them into the fridge after steeping. Again, I use it as a rinse but, it can sit in your hair for a bit for softer locks. My hair is softer, cleaner and…dare I say it…happier. The soapnuts have an almost sweet smell to them, a smell I found to be much more pleasant than the yucca root.
My hair has developed a natural curl that styles without effort or hair products. I rinse with the soapnuts mixture every 7-10 days, ACV mixture is used if I feel particularly dirty or if there seems to be excess buildup…which hasn’t actually happened since switching to the soapnuts. If I’m in between bathing and need a quick reset of oils (my hair looks too dirty or greasy) I just lightly sprinkle some cornstarch near my roots and brush it through, a natural dry shampoo effect happens. It eliminates excess oil and gives a little extra body to your hair.
That is another point to the routine that cannot be overlooked. Brushing your hair, especially if it’s long. The purpose is to evenly distribute the natural oils your scalp is making. It should be, at a minimum, daily. Best practices for my hair, first thing in the morning and before bed.
I felt pretty awkward about getting my hair cut without having shampooed it for months. Honestly, I avoided it and didn’t go for a cut for 5 months. I finally went, I “washed” my hair with the soapnuts mixture prior to my appointment and requested it not be washed. She could not stop commenting about the health of my hair and scalp (for years I had a scalp and psoriasis issue, magically gone now). She even showed the other ladies at the shop and I got to explain the routine multiple times. It felt pretty amazing leaving there and knowing that this change was so impactful to my health and confidence.

Just a note to readers about a common alternative to soap nuts. I think horse chestnuts, very common in many areas (including in the Netherlands, FYI to Inge), are rich in saponins, and a mild soap or shampoo can be made from them. I did this a few decades ago. Some people even make laundry soap from them. Just do an internet search.

That being said, I want also to reply to Inge's most recent post. I have short hair and it does NOT seem to have gotten oily (you said "fatty", but I think it's the same) after I went "poo-less". So I'm wondering if your shorter hairstyle might solve the problem of hair getting oily.  I do take warm showers, not very hot, but I think probably warm running water can remove at least some oil.

This topic reminds me of older practices, before people had a habit of bathing/showering so much. People--esp. men--often oiled their hair on purpose. It was considered fashionable and neat. People--men and women--also used to habitually wear hats or headcoverings whenever they were outdoors, partly to keep dirt/dust from their hair. The hats were removed when coming indoors, as a matter of politeness.

Kit Collins wrote:Just a note to readers about a common alternative to soap nuts. I think horse chestnuts, very common in many areas (including in the Netherlands, FYI to Inge), are rich in saponins, and a mild soap or shampoo can be made from them. I did this a few decades ago. Some people even make laundry soap from them. Just do an internet search.

That being said, I want also to reply to Inge's most recent post. I have short hair and it does NOT seem to have gotten oily (you said "fatty", but I think it's the same) after I went "poo-less". So I'm wondering if your shorter hairstyle might solve the problem of hair getting oily.  I do take warm showers, not very hot, but I think probably warm running water can remove at least some oil.

This topic reminds me of older practices, before people had a habit of bathing/showering so much. People--esp. men--often oiled their hair on purpose. It was considered fashionable and neat. People--men and women--also used to habitually wear hats or headcoverings whenever they were outdoors, partly to keep dirt/dust from their hair. The hats were removed when coming indoors, as a matter of politeness.

Yes, I think my hair became 'fatty' (or 'oily') because it had grown too long, and it's thick. Washing with only water, massaging with my hands under the shower, not all 'fat' from my skin (scalp) did get out. At least that's what I think. I did not yet wash after it has been cut, but probably getting my hair clean will be much easier now it's short.

Now, in Spring, I can not try horse-chestnuts. But in Autumn, when they fall from the trees, I can (if I don't forget). Maybe I'll try Ivy leaves (I mean what's called English Ivy in America, Hedera helix). They seem to have saponines too. Or Soapwort (Saponaria officinalis).

I know, in the past everyone wore head-coverings. Women had caps or veils (the type depending on the region they lived in), often made of white linen. In a village nearby still some women wear white lace caps when walking to church on Sundays (Staphorst. They also wear a traditional costume. And they don't want tourists to come and watch them!).