Search...
Home Subscribe
Pie
Home Subscribe
Recent topics Flagged topics Hot topics Best topics
Search...
Search within gardening for beginners Search permies
Advanced search Google search
Register / Login
SKIP=SKills to Inherit Property PEP Permaculture Experience According to Paul Green Living Book organic pools package deal: video, manual, and World Domination Gardening Free heat
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
Tour of Wheaton Labs Movie, hosted by Paul Wheaton Full online Permaculture Design course and Appropriate Technology Course video Green Living Book Free heat movie skip the rat race
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Carla Burke
  • John F Dean
  • Nancy Reading
  • r ransom
  • Jay Angler
  • Timothy Norton
stewards:
  • paul wheaton
  • Pearl Sutton
  • Anne Miller
master gardeners:
  • Christopher Weeks
  • M Ljin
gardeners:
  • Jim Garlits
  • thomas rubino
  • William Bronson

Straw bale raised bed

 
tim Jeandrevin
Posts: 4
1
posted 13 years ago
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi everybody,
New here. I just wanted to share something I just found in a book. To save a ton of space in your garden or raised beds.......plant pumpkin, squash, zuccini, etc by doing the following:
set a bail of staw on the ground, cut side up, and soak it with water for a couple of days. Punch two holes in the top about the size of your fist, 4 or so inche deep. Make them 2' appart. Fill the indentations with a good mix of compost. Now plant your seeds in the dirt and you have an instant raised bed squash garden.

Tim
 
Brenda Groth
pollinator
Posts: 4437
Location: North Central Michigan
62
posted 13 years ago
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
it sure could work, but in our area straw is just NOT available..and hay is full of seeds and going for an extreme price this year

Brenda

Bloom where you are planted.
http://restfultrailsfoodforestgarden.blogspot.com/

 
Nancy Reading
steward and tree herder
Posts: 13513
Location: Isle of Skye, Scotland. Nearly 70 inches rain a year
7349
6
I like...
transportation dog forest garden foraging trees books food preservation woodworking wood heat rocket stoves ungarbage
posted 2 months ago
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Is it really as easy as this to make a straw bale garden? What are the possible downsides? Does it work for other crops than the squash family?

How Permies works: https://permies.com/wiki/34193/permies-works-links-threads
My projects on Skye: The tree field, Growing and landracing, perennial polycultures, "Don't dream it - be it! "

 
Anne Miller
steward
Posts: 19078
Location: USDA Zone 8a
4821
I like...
dog hunting food preservation cooking bee greening the desert
posted 2 months ago
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I wonder if the book the OP referred to is “Straw Bale Gardens" by Joel Karsten?

Invasive plants are Earth's way of insisting we notice her medicines. Stephen Herrod Buhner
Everyone learns what works by learning what doesn't work. Stephen Herrod Buhner

 
s. lowe
pollinator
Posts: 873
223
posted 2 months ago
  • Likes 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Nancy Reading wrote:Is it really as easy as this to make a straw bale garden? What are the possible downsides? Does it work for other crops than the squash family?


It's basically that easy. In my experience you have to feed a lot.

When I had a place with a big garden i would regularly go pick up straw and hay that had gotten wet and moldy to use for composting and mulch and I did a couple raised beds from those.

If you have basically free bales and no other use for them it's a way to use them while they start to compost
 
Christopher Weeks
master gardener
Posts: 6435
Location: Carlton County, Minnesota, USA: 3b; Dfb; sandy loam; in the woods
3884
8
I like...
forest garden trees books chicken food preservation cooking fiber arts seed woodworking homestead ungarbage
posted 2 months ago
  • Likes 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I've grown potatoes and squash and kale and tomatoes in rotting hay-bales. The yield for me has always been lower than planting in good garden soil, but still worth doing. And you can use the bales to occult the grass and weeds from the sun for a year and then once the bales sag/break down too much to use them that way, they're a source of mulch right where you need it. (I can't get straw that I trust, but I do have a source for unsprayed hay, which is full of weeds, but so's my land.)
 
John F Dean
master steward
Posts: 8644
Location: southern Illinois, USA
3529
I like...
goat cat dog chicken composting toilet food preservation pig solar wood heat homestead composting
posted 2 months ago
  • Likes 10
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I have used straw bales and straw for about 15 years in raised beds. The main problem is finding a good source that is cheap.  A second issue is they take a good deal of water initially. I try to get them out in the fall. That way they take in the winter and spring rains. I apply manure on top between rains. Once they  are thoroughly soaked, they need minimal water afterward.  Before I plant, I spread a layer of soil across the top… or just in the holes described above …depending upon the crop.

I find them to be fantastic for tomatoes. … 2 plants per bale is best for me.  Beets, onions, and carrots also do well in bales.  I plant as many as I can rationally fit.  Potatoes do well in bales, but I tend to use loose straw for them that has seen use in the stalls.

You can only be young once … but you can be immature forever!

 
Joao Winckler
Posts: 236
67
I like...
kids urban seed
posted 2 months ago
  • Likes 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Works for tomatoes and peppers too, not just squash. I tried it a couple of years back and the main thing is you really do need to keep on top of feeding, the bales just eat through nutrients. The upside is once they break down you've got a nice patch of soil underneath where the grass was, so even if the yields aren't amazing that first year you're building something for the next one.

Leaftide.com — track your fruit trees, veg & everything in between

 
Nancy Reading
steward and tree herder
Posts: 13513
Location: Isle of Skye, Scotland. Nearly 70 inches rain a year
7349
6
I like...
transportation dog forest garden foraging trees books food preservation woodworking wood heat rocket stoves ungarbage
posted 2 months ago
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Joao Winckler wrote: The upside is once they break down you've got a nice patch of soil underneath where the grass was, so even if the yields aren't amazing that first year you're building something for the next one.


I think this is one of the most attractive parts for me - a really easy way of preparing ground for next year, as well as getting some sort of crop this year.
I think it could work really well in my damp climate, but I suspect in a dry/hot one keeping the bales watered might be more of an issue. Would deep watering with leaky bottles be sufficient perhaps?

How Permies works: https://permies.com/wiki/34193/permies-works-links-threads
My projects on Skye: The tree field, Growing and landracing, perennial polycultures, "Don't dream it - be it! "

 
John F Dean
master steward
Posts: 8644
Location: southern Illinois, USA
3529
I like...
goat cat dog chicken composting toilet food preservation pig solar wood heat homestead composting
posted 2 months ago
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
If dealing with a dry climate, my first question would be if there is a wet season. If so, I would set out the bales for that. From my experience, it is important that they be thoroughly saturated before planting. When that rains stopped, I would mulch …maybe with dumpster procured plastic.

Edit:  …and, rather than a raised bed, it might be better to sink the bale in the ground.

You can only be young once … but you can be immature forever!

 
Samantha Lewis
gardener
Posts: 2125
962
14
I like...
homeschooling hugelkultur trees medical herbs sheep horse homestead
posted 2 months ago
  • Likes 7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I think this is a neat idea if you can get organic straw.  A lot of wheat is grown with persistent herbicides and that can really diminish the health of your soil and garden plants.

Perfect The Dwelling Land!

 
John F Dean
master steward
Posts: 8644
Location: southern Illinois, USA
3529
I like...
goat cat dog chicken composting toilet food preservation pig solar wood heat homestead composting
posted 2 months ago
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
While not as effective as straw in retaining water, hay can be used.   Anyone who has tried to move a wet bale of hay can support its water holding abilities.   In my area, farmers are not so quick to use chemicals on the hay fields.  There is a secondary risk in that manure from animals who have been exposed to chemicals may have been used.  also there is the question if crop rotation and the last time chemicals were used on the field.  In my area, it is a safe bet that it has been at least 2 years since there has been any exposure to chemicals for hay.   In one case, I am certain the figure is more like 25 years …. Not due to organic philosophy…but due to not wanting to spend the money.

You can only be young once … but you can be immature forever!

 
Eric Hanson
Steward and Man of Many Mushrooms
Posts: 6160
Location: Southern Illinois
1928
I like...
transportation cat dog fungi trees building writing rocket stoves woodworking
posted 2 months ago
  • Likes 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Several years ago I tried my hand at strawbale gardening.  If I remember correctly, I used bloodmeal, a little bit of bonemeal and composted manure as sources of nitrogen to start the decomposition.  I also planted in little fertile holes filled with that same composted manure.  

The strawbales did indeed break down as long as I kept watering them which was easy enough to do--until we left for about a week.

When I came back, it was obvious that the plants were suffering from heat stress.  The bales did break down significantly and what did not break down that year simply became organic matter that I raked onto the soil of my garden beds.

Honestly, this is something that I would consider doing again.




Eric

Some places need to be wild

 
Burra Maluca
out to pasture
Posts: 13289
Location: Portugal
4436
I like...
goat dog duck forest garden books wofati bee solar rocket stoves greening the desert
posted 2 months ago
  • Likes 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I wonder if you could pee on the bales to supply nutrients and moisture at the same time, for free?

On the other hand I provided a pee-bale to a wwoofer once and it stunk to high heaven so maybe it's not such a good idea...

How permies.com works
What is a Mother Tree ?

 
Christopher Weeks
master gardener
Posts: 6435
Location: Carlton County, Minnesota, USA: 3b; Dfb; sandy loam; in the woods
3884
8
I like...
forest garden trees books chicken food preservation cooking fiber arts seed woodworking homestead ungarbage
posted 2 months ago
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Pee is the only fertilizer I add to my haybale gardens. I wonder if adding more nutrients of whatever type would boost my yield and whether there's anything I'd be willing to add.
 
John F Dean
master steward
Posts: 8644
Location: southern Illinois, USA
3529
I like...
goat cat dog chicken composting toilet food preservation pig solar wood heat homestead composting
posted 2 months ago
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Eric,

I am surprised you had water problems in a week. I am wondering if the bales were thoroughly saturated.  Of course, water might have had little to do with heat stress.

You can only be young once … but you can be immature forever!

 
Eric Hanson
Steward and Man of Many Mushrooms
Posts: 6160
Location: Southern Illinois
1928
I like...
transportation cat dog fungi trees building writing rocket stoves woodworking
posted 2 months ago
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi John,

It was July--HOT!  And I might not have had the bale properly saturated.

But that's OK, it was a fun project anyways.  And when the season was done, all that composted straw was a good amendment to add to the garden.





Eric

Some places need to be wild

 
Richard Rose
Posts: 18
Location: CSRA region of Georgia; Zone 8b
3
3
I like...
homeschooling kids dog books cooking
posted 2 months ago
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
This came at a welcome time. I was just debating making a lasagna style garden plot with layers of composted manure and straw. I have heard about straw bale gardening, but never knew anyone who did it. The issue I have is that I live in Georgia which means extreme heat. Does anyone have experience with this method in hot weather? If I could forgo the manure and just use the bales that would save me some significant money on startup.

-Rich

"If you aren't a peacemaker at least don't be a troublemaker."
St. Isaac the Syrian ☦️

 
Eric Hanson
Steward and Man of Many Mushrooms
Posts: 6160
Location: Southern Illinois
1928
I like...
transportation cat dog fungi trees building writing rocket stoves woodworking
posted 2 months ago
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Richard,

The straw bales could be a very good option for you.  And yes, the heat is a real issue, but it is something you can overcome, especially if you can keep moisture on it.

For conditioning, although I used blood and bone meal, you might get better results by peeing on it.  And its cheaper too.  Urine is an excellent fertilizer, but it can be a bit hot.  If you can get the urine to start breaking down the straw, you can mitigate this problem.

That said, I would still work in some manure if you can do it.  My reasoning is that the bacteria from the manure will happily add to the microbe party taking place in the strawbale.  They will probably make it break down faster as well.  When I use the manure, I worked in in on the sides and especially in between the bales.  Basically I was trying to get microbial action going everywhere I could.

Regardless of how you get the nitrogen on the bales, they will break down--surprisingly quick.  I doubt that they could survive to work another season, though you could use them as a base on which to set new, fresh bales.  This would add yet more microbial activity to the new bales.

But for my purposes, I like just add this decomposed straw to the garden bed as a sort of mulch--and a very fertile one at that!



Good luck on your project, please let us know how it works out!



Eric

Some places need to be wild

 
Richard Rose
Posts: 18
Location: CSRA region of Georgia; Zone 8b
3
3
I like...
homeschooling kids dog books cooking
posted 2 months ago
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks Eric! I was planning to use manure to fill the holes I was placing the plants inside of. I will try the urine thing although may wife may think I'm insane. How saturated are we talking when it comes to watering the bales?

"If you aren't a peacemaker at least don't be a troublemaker."
St. Isaac the Syrian ☦️

 
William Bronson
gardener
Posts: 5695
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio,Price Hill 45205
1309
I like...
forest garden trees urban
posted 2 months ago
  • Likes 9
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I think a manure tea/smoothy might help the strawbales break down.

Alternatively,a slurry of common garden soil, followed with a planting of inoculated legumes?
Would the legumes and the nitrogen fixing bacteria be able to set up shop?

What about a green smoothie made up of weeds?
Could that provide the needed nitrogen?

King stropharia spawn added to the bales should help break them down while providing another yield.
If the bale is placed on top of a bed if wood chips, you are liable to inoculate them during the life of the bale.
Such a bed would also hold a lot of water.

Eating Bindweed
Eating Buckwheat Greens
Paul explains why I spend time here,better than I could myself.

 
Eric Hanson
Steward and Man of Many Mushrooms
Posts: 6160
Location: Southern Illinois
1928
I like...
transportation cat dog fungi trees building writing rocket stoves woodworking
posted 2 months ago
  • Likes 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Richard,

I would really soak those bales, but something you will likely find is that the bales can only get so wet.  One of the beauties of the bale system is that it is hard to overwater—the extra just runs out onto the ground.  

I like your thoughts about using manure as it is pretty much exactly what I was thinking.

William also has really good points about making a slurry to aid breakdown.  But even better is the use of Stropharia mushrooms.  If you decide to go with Stropharia, make no mistake, those bales will be not just decomposed but utterly destroyed (by appearance).  The resulting material will be superb gardening material,


So far I think you are off to a great start!




Eric

Some places need to be wild

 
Robert Ray
gardener
Posts: 3484
Location: Cascades of Oregon
951
posted 2 months ago
  • Likes 11
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I was given a bunch of moldy hay bales and used them in four foot tall raised beds. Bales taking up the first sixteen inches saved a ton of dirt. The bales did degrade over the years and I did have to add to the beds as the hay composted, but when looking at the dirt that was the result of the bales composting it was beautiful and filled with worms. The composting of the bales probably gave off some heat as they changed, but I didn't think about taking any temps.

Our inability to change everything should not stop us from changing what we can.

 
Eric Hanson
Steward and Man of Many Mushrooms
Posts: 6160
Location: Southern Illinois
1928
I like...
transportation cat dog fungi trees building writing rocket stoves woodworking
posted 2 months ago
  • Likes 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
That’s what you want!!

If you get plenty of nitrogen in the bales along with plenty of moisture, you’ll have a good set of decomposing bedding by the end of the season.

I had another thought for you—coffee grounds.  If you can get ahold of used coffee grounds and work them in and in between the bales, you have one of the best-perfect items to really start decomposition.  They have about the perfect balance of nitrogen, oxygen, carbon and water.

And while this shouldn’t be a problem, just make certain you get a good supply of microbes.  If you have any doubt, just find the most fertile place on your property and dig up a few handfuls.  That should be sufficient to get microbes in place to do their jobs,


Sounds like you have a pretty solid plan.



Eric

Some places need to be wild

 
Richard Rose
Posts: 18
Location: CSRA region of Georgia; Zone 8b
3
3
I like...
homeschooling kids dog books cooking
posted 1 month ago
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Quick clarification. I checked out a straw bale gardening book from my library system. It said if the cut side of the bale also had the strings I should not make that the "top" of the bale, but one of the sides. Some other info I just found said I should absolutely be making the cut side my top even if the strings are running across it. Seeing as y'all have actual experience how should I orient the bales?

"If you aren't a peacemaker at least don't be a troublemaker."
St. Isaac the Syrian ☦️

 
John F Dean
master steward
Posts: 8644
Location: southern Illinois, USA
3529
I like...
goat cat dog chicken composting toilet food preservation pig solar wood heat homestead composting
posted 1 month ago
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I have found it doesn’t make much difference. In a perfect world, cut side up without strings. The biggest issue, to me, is water. Make certain the bales are saturated.  I suggest manure tea.  My routine is to set the bales out in the fall and let the rain do the watering.  This spring I checked the bales and they were  not moist enough ( we had a relatively dry winter). I hauled in water by hand only to have the skies open for two weeks.  Of course, the weather report said there was a 30% chance of rain on one of those days.

You can only be young once … but you can be immature forever!

 
John F Dean
master steward
Posts: 8644
Location: southern Illinois, USA
3529
I like...
goat cat dog chicken composting toilet food preservation pig solar wood heat homestead composting
posted 1 month ago
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I need to mention that maybe 6 to 10x over the fall, winter, and early spring I sprinkle a thin layer of compost and/or manure on top of the bales so it can soak in. Of course, the manure is normally a year old or so.  Also, compost tea can be substituted for manure tea.

You can only be young once … but you can be immature forever!

 
Richard Rose
Posts: 18
Location: CSRA region of Georgia; Zone 8b
3
3
I like...
homeschooling kids dog books cooking
posted 1 month ago
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I'm using milorganite as my nitrogen source since the wife nixed the urine. It's just with the top currently being the bent side the granules aren't penetraring like I had hoped.

"If you aren't a peacemaker at least don't be a troublemaker."
St. Isaac the Syrian ☦️

 
To do a great right, do a little wrong - shakespeare. twisted little ad:
it's easier and more soul building than any workee-job
https://wheaton-labs.com/bootcamp
reply
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!
Similar Threads
More...