Alternative meat sources

I just listened to Judson Carroll's latest podcast  (Southern Appalacian Herbalist..and fellow permies guy) and he mentions, almost in passing, alternative meat sourcing by ridding nuisance critters like beaver and groundhog.  Has anyone trapped groundhog and then processed?  How might one go about doing that?  Judson says they taste like pork, thoughts?  I know their diet is spectacular, they eat all my garden bits!  Along a similar train of thought, has anyone read the book 'How to Cook a Wolf'?

They get to be a problem when they tunnel under your foundation... a hav-a-hart trap is pretty reliable, especially when you can line it up with their hole, look for the one with two doors, so they will run through it.  They seem to be consistently fatty, dark meat, and they're mostly grass-fed, so that's a plus.  Some folks would say gamey, but I generally consider that a term for "meat that has non-zero flavor".  The flavor is more pungent than deer or wild turkey.

Thanks for the book recommendation, I'll check it out!

I have had ground hog; you have to process it quickly, and be sure to cut the glands out of the carcass; but its  not bad bra=b-cued; same with raccoon.

Deer and turkey; ah, I would love to have some deer and turkey, squirrel and rabbit in my freezer....but there are lots of recipes online for all sorts of wild game meat...

Hey, thanks for listening!  Check out my old friend, TIm Roper's videos on youtube under the title "meat trapper".  Tim is offline due to cancer.  He is the very best on the subject!

woodchuck fat tastes kinda awful, so to me spring is the time to harvest them, when there’s much less of it. i have better luck shooting them than trapping. need to know how to avoid the scent glands.

i guess they’re kinda like pork. they’re definitely like other rodents, i dunno how much squirrel you’ve had…

I want to know about such stuff too. I've been listening to a podcast by Hank Shaw for free on Spotify.

My name is Hank Shaw; I’m a James Beard Award-winning author and chef. I started this site back in 2007 to help you get the most out of all things wild: fish, game, edible wild plants and mushrooms. Fifteen years later I’m still at it, hunting, fishing and gathering all over the US, Canada and Mexico. Hope you enjoy the site!

From his website, Honest Food, where there are lots of recipies. And his books too.

Though my intitial search did not find a groundhog recipie.

I have seen a lot of these kinds of meats in spiral bound self-published cookbooks from southern communities - one on Alabama game, plenty of Louisiana books with recipes for nutria, turtle, squirrel, old books with recipes for possum and "mixed game"  camp stews. My ancestors were big mullet fishers (an "alternative" fish) on the Atlantic coast. Looking for those older community based books you find in thrift stores where it was more common to eat whatever was available is a good place to start on the items you mentioned. Anything from Louisiana is a good bet.

How to Cook a Wolf is a classic, although not my most practical book on this topic

Joylynn Hardesty wrote:I want to know about such stuff too. I've been listening to a podcast by Hank Shaw for free on Spotify.

My name is Hank Shaw; I’m a James Beard Award-winning author and chef. I started this site back in 2007 to help you get the most out of all things wild: fish, game, edible wild plants and mushrooms. Fifteen years later I’m still at it, hunting, fishing and gathering all over the US, Canada and Mexico. Hope you enjoy the site!

From his website, Honest Food, where there are lots of recipies. And his books too.

Though my intitial search did not find a groundhog recipie.

Hank is a good guy.  We communicated a few years ago.  My cookbook will be released Oct !

Judson Carroll wrote:

Joylynn Hardesty wrote:I want to know about such stuff too. I've been listening to a podcast by Hank Shaw for free on Spotify.

My name is Hank Shaw; I’m a James Beard Award-winning author and chef. I started this site back in 2007 to help you get the most out of all things wild: fish, game, edible wild plants and mushrooms. Fifteen years later I’m still at it, hunting, fishing and gathering all over the US, Canada and Mexico. Hope you enjoy the site!

From his website, Honest Food, where there are lots of recipies. And his books too.

Though my intitial search did not find a groundhog recipie.

Hank is a good guy.  We communicated a few years ago.  My cookbook will be released Oct !

Judson, if you ever want to do a book giveaway here on permies to promote your cookbook, we're totally open to that!

(You probably know most of the book promo/giveaway details, but if not, here's the official info on book promos for authors/publishers)

I’m a big fan of groundhog.  We shoot them with various guns. We always seem to get younger ones, maybe they are dumb, so I can’t say how the larger ones taste. Our favorite way to cook them is about 15 min in the pressure cooker, just until tender, but not falling apart, then bread and fry.  As far as survival goes, they are something to eat, but, small game in general, is quickly depleted from an area unless you have hundreds of acres to hunt.

I have a friend who regularly shoots squirrel and calls them "Tree Chickens". He admits that  he tends to only eat the young ones - smaller, but better flavor and texture.

They seem to contradict the general rule that Gray Henon mentioned - as fast as my friend kills them, I see more in the area!

However, there's not a lot of meat on them. I wish someone near here had cuy - I'd like to try it. They wouldn't be a "wild" source, but from what I understand, they're fairly low labor to produce.

I have eaten racoon before, but I don't trust what they've been eating around here, and I have too many other options.  

The Venison a friend gave me works fine for me, but my family isn't as keen.

I raise Muscovy and I think they're a pretty good source of meat that reproduces itself and they usually only get a little chicken feed as a bribe to let me lock them up at night. With our current drought, they're getting a bit more feed, as there isn't much forage.

For Protein:
Pine Pollen - 30% protein and contains 20 amino acids including the 9 essential amino acids. L- arginine, an amino acid that stimulates the production of nitric oxide, a compound that opens and dilates blood vessels to increase blood flow, is very beneficial to athletes.
It can be added to anything.

Tried & True - Beans+Rice Combo (I prefer lentils)

Gray Henon wrote:I’m a big fan of groundhog.  We shoot them with various guns. We always seem to get younger ones, maybe they are dumb, so I can’t say how the larger ones taste. Our favorite way to cook them is about 15 min in the pressure cooker, just until tender, but not falling apart, then bread and fry.  As far as survival goes, they are something to eat, but, small game in general, is quickly depleted from an area unless you have hundreds of acres to hunt.

Well since I am sure no one else is hunting them, I guess the whole of the city is fair game!  Not allowed to shoot a gun in the city, but we'll figure that out later.  😋

Jennifer Sooke wrote:For Protein:
Pine Pollen - 30% protein and contains 20 amino acids including the 9 essential amino acids. L- arginine, an amino acid that stimulates the production of nitric oxide, a compound that opens and dilates blood vessels to increase blood flow, is very beneficial to athletes.
It can be added to anything.

Tried & True - Beans+Rice Combo (I prefer lentils)

Well if I am to keep hubby anything near happy, there must be meat.  Not sure about pine pollen, most pollens are my nemesis.  And too many beans will make everyone around me unhappy.   😂

Nicole Alderman wrote:

Judson Carroll wrote:

Joylynn Hardesty wrote:I want to know about such stuff too. I've been listening to a podcast by Hank Shaw for free on Spotify.

My name is Hank Shaw; I’m a James Beard Award-winning author and chef. I started this site back in 2007 to help you get the most out of all things wild: fish, game, edible wild plants and mushrooms. Fifteen years later I’m still at it, hunting, fishing and gathering all over the US, Canada and Mexico. Hope you enjoy the site!

From his website, Honest Food, where there are lots of recipies. And his books too.

Though my intitial search did not find a groundhog recipie.

Hank is a good guy.  We communicated a few years ago.  My cookbook will be released Oct !

Judson, if you ever want to do a book giveaway here on permies to promote your cookbook, we're totally open to that!

(You probably know most of the book promo/giveaway details, but if not, here's the official info on book promos for authors/publishers)

Thanks so much!  That is definitely something I would like to consider!

those people who have had the chance to eat muskrat, most of them probably decided to pass. Here’s the thing about muskrats – they look like a big wet toothy rat. Their teeth are orangish and the flesh is dark and somewhat stringy.

Eastern Shore Muskrat Recipe

I remembered seeing this on TV.

Joylynn Hardesty wrote:I want to know about such stuff too. I've been listening to a podcast by Hank Shaw for free on Spotify.

My name is Hank Shaw; I’m a James Beard Award-winning author and chef. I started this site back in 2007 to help you get the most out of all things wild: fish, game, edible wild plants and mushrooms. Fifteen years later I’m still at it, hunting, fishing and gathering all over the US, Canada and Mexico. Hope you enjoy the site!

From his website, Honest Food, where there are lots of recipies. And his books too.

Though my intitial search did not find a groundhog recipie.

I did not know his name, but I look to his website often.  His roasted chicory recipe got me started.  Now I gave to look closer.

I would be happy if someone could point out a source that details all the musk glands that need to be removed from wild meat, especially rodents, to avoid tainting the meat.

From a survival perspective, I get the impression that ecosystems have an inverse rule about the abundance of calories vs. the size of the animal. So, while the manly-man hunter is chasing deer, the wise-woman gatherer is snaring rabbits/squirrels and gathering nuts and berries. (Bad stereotype, I know, but there is some historical precedent amongst our indigenous peoples.)

For the true survivor, the grasshoppers and moths and grubs you can gather with bare hands have the fat/protein you need. Think small, where the calories are.

Consider the strategy of bears: big, strong, fast animals but true omnivores that know how to survive efficiently in lean terrain. They mostly eat insects and berries, and large animal carrion if they can find it. Chasing down larger game often burns more calories than it provides.

My perspective is echoing Bill Mollison... "the problem is the solution."  If we can eat the critters that raid our gardens, manage beaver populations to help with flooding, manage groundhog populations for horse ranchers, reduce some invasive nutria and armadillo, help manage the coon and possum populations to mitigate rabies outbreaks, take some pigeons and Canada geese.... some folks even eat coyotes (I don't)... we can help balance things as we have far fewer predators these days than we should, and fill our freezers.  For me, it is very much a part of being an ethical omnivore.  And besides, the meat is VERY tasty!

Douglas Alpenstock wrote:I would be happy if someone could point out a source that details all the musk glands that need to be removed from wild meat, especially rodents, to avoid tainting the meat.

I think I have some pictorial guides in some old books, in storage.  Usually, they are on the inside of the legs, but some critters have some on the low back.  If you skin a couple, you will learn to identify the glands They look like yellow kernels, usually.

Cris Fellows wrote:

Joylynn Hardesty wrote:I want to know about such stuff too. I've been listening to a podcast by Hank Shaw for free on Spotify.

My name is Hank Shaw; I’m a James Beard Award-winning author and chef. I started this site back in 2007 to help you get the most out of all things wild: fish, game, edible wild plants and mushrooms. Fifteen years later I’m still at it, hunting, fishing and gathering all over the US, Canada and Mexico. Hope you enjoy the site!

From his website, Honest Food, where there are lots of recipies. And his books too.

Though my intitial search did not find a groundhog recipie.

I did not know his name, but I look to his website often.  His roasted chicory recipe got me started.  Now I gave to look closer.

That reminds me of a song I learned from Doc Watson, "Muskrat oh muskrat, what makes you smell so bad? A layin' round the farmer's barn, eattin' up all he had, eattin' up all he had"

^That was fun!

Mercy Pergande wrote:I have seen a lot of these kinds of meats in spiral bound self-published cookbooks from southern communities - one on Alabama game, plenty of Louisiana books with recipes for nutria, turtle, squirrel, old books with recipes for possum and "mixed game"  camp stews. My ancestors were big mullet fishers (an "alternative" fish) on the Atlantic coast. Looking for those older community based books you find in thrift stores where it was more common to eat whatever was available is a good place to start on the items you mentioned. Anything from Louisiana is a good bet.

How to Cook a Wolf is a classic, although not my most practical book on this topic

I found the book I mentioned above- it is Cooking Alabama's Wild Game and it's a publication of Auburn University Extension Service

^ fascinating that they group bears into ‘small game’!

^ As I thought, because it's not allowable to hunt them in Alabama, they threw it in just in case:

We have TONS of black bear where I live!  Fortunately, armadillos haven't made it quite this far north yet.  I have seen plenty in Georgia and parts of SC though, which is very far out of their native range.  They can be quite a nuisance and even carry plague.  That said, there is a strong tradition of eating armadillo in TX.  A friend of mine raved about armadillo pie and tamales!  

Here is a page from my new book:

If you are from the South, the idea of eating frog legs may seem very normal.  If you are French or Asian, it is certainly normal.  Oddly enough though, many folks in America have never eaten frog legs and are creeped out by the very idea!  That is the problem with food prejudices, which as I said, are generally based on ignorance.  If your parents fed you frog legs, or if they were commonly eaten in your region, they don’t seem strange.  If not, they do.  I am a frog leg fanatic!    Generally, large bullfrogs are the main species of frog harvested.  Interestingly, Louisiana became famous because of the particularly large bullfrogs found in Rayne, LA that produced an international frog farming and shipping business!  While the bullfrogs may be smaller in the Carolinas, frog legs have been no less popular… until recently.  Unfortunately, the American diet has become far less varied in recent decades as fast food and chain grocery stores have come to dominate the American culture.  Simply put, folks these days rarely grow up eating the wide variety of wild meat and fish or heirloom and foraged vegetables as our grandparents.  It was a blessing for me to have had a grandfather who was an avid frog-gigger.  A gig is, essentially, a long, spear-like fork with which one hunts for frogs.  In our coastal swamps and rivers, frogs were a major source of food.  To a frog aficionado, frog meat tastes like frog meat and the subtle flavors of frogs that live in specific, clean waters and such are preferred.  In describing the flavor of frog meat, to those who have never tried it, far too often folks say that it tastes like chicken.  In truth, frog meat is very mild, white meat that has a hint of chicken-like flavor.  It tastes more like fresh water pan fish.  But, it also has a distinctive, buttery richness that is distinctly frog… so long as it is not over cooked or over seasoned.  You could certainly fool a kid raised on chicken nuggets with frog meat if over cooked and dipped in sweet barbecue sauce.  And honestly, I have eaten several pounds of over cooked frog legs from Chinese restaurant buffets with no complaints – I was just glad to have the option of frog!  Frog legs, egg rolls and rice noodles make for an excellent lunch, and are among the safer options when you stop into a cheap buffet while traveling.  In home cooking though, I like to use freshly caught frog legs and cook them with respect to their delicate and subtle flavor.

Unless you catch the frogs yourself, you will likely purchase them through a store, from a frog farm.  What you purchase will be the back legs only.  They come two to a set, attached at the pelvis.  They are skinned, white and perfectly clean.  They need only to be thawed and rinsed and are ready to cook.  If you catch your own, you may use the front legs, as well, with the back/shoulder area.  They are much smaller but do have usable meat.  It is a shame to waste them.  If you have cleaned fish, you’ll get the hang of frogs quickly.  Just chop off the head, pull off the skin and cut of the legs.  

When I fry frog legs, I only like to use a light breading.  I give them a brief soak in milk, dredge in flour and pan fry.  The tendons in the legs react to the hot pan and the legs will kick – be not afraid!  When fried golden brown and delicious, which takes far less time than chicken, I plate them and season them with… you guessed it, Creole seasoning.  

Un-breaded frog legs may be sautéed in oil or butter with some of the vegetables I often use – onions, garlic, celery, pepper, mushrooms and tomatoes.  Add some herbs and a little white wine and serve with rice.  

You can also quickly broil or grill your frog legs with whatever sauce you like.  The main thing is to cook them quickly and simply.  When not over cooked, your reaction to your first bite of frog meat will probably be, “Wow, I wish chicken (or fish) tasted more like frog!”

Around my area, black bear is likely the easiest source of protein and fat.  I disagree with the book pictured that says remove all fat from bear.  Fat on bear is not like wild ungulates. The flavour is not bad and it makes great lard.  Besides, fat is a great source of energy and keeps you warm in the winter.

Tim Siemens wrote:Around my area, black bear is likely the easiest source of protein and fat.  I disagree with the book pictured that says remove all fat from bear.  Fat on bear is not like wild ungulates. The flavour is not bad and it makes great lard.  Besides, fat is a great source of energy and keeps you warm in the winter.

I agree.  If beat meat is handled properly int he field and chilled quickle... and it has had a clean diet, bear far is as good as lard.  Bear hams and bacon are even better!

I think local deer fat tastes good.  I remember some pretty unpleasant fat on WI deer from my youth.  Just like anything,it depends on what they have been eating.  I’d suggest  trying most any fat, unless it is known to be toxic, especially in a survival situation.

Tim Siemens wrote:Around my area, black bear is likely the easiest source of protein and fat.  I disagree with the book pictured that says remove all fat from bear.  Fat on bear is not like wild ungulates. The flavour is not bad and it makes great lard.  Besides, fat is a great source of energy and keeps you warm in the winter.

I was at an herbal presentation by Matthew Wood and remember him talking of bear fat for medicinal purposes.
I took notes...but where might they be? 😂 I don't recall it's exact use.