* Welcome Kate Downham, author of Sourdough Without Fail.

Please join me in welcoming Kate Downham, author of Sourdough Without Fail!




Read the review of Sourdough Without Fail here!



Kate Downham will be hanging out in the forums until this Friday answering questions and sharing her experiences with you all.

At the end of this week, we'll make a drawing for 4 lucky winners to win a copy of Sourdough Without Fail. From now until Friday, all new posts in the Bread forum are eligible to win.
 
To win, you must use a name that follows our naming policy and you must have your email set up to receive the Daily-ish email. Higher quality posts are weighed more highly than posts that just say, "Wow, that's really cool! I want to win!"

When the four winners are selected, they will be announced in this thread and their email address will be sent to the publisher, and the publisher will sort out the delivery details with the winners.

Please remember that we favour perennial discussion.  The threads you start will last beyond the event.  You don't need to use Kate Downham's name to get her attention. We like these threads to be accessible to everyone, and some people may not post their experiences if the thread is directed to the author alone.
 

Posts in this thread won't count as an entry to win a copy of the book, but please say "Hi!" to Kate Downham and make her feel welcome!

Hi Kate, congratulations on your new book!

Hi Kate. Welcome. please stick around:)

Welcome Kate !

Congrats on your new book! I wish it and you loads of success.

Welcome, Kate!
Looks like a great book and I am sure you had fun researching for it... all those pancakes and breads, well just all that food you had to try.  lol

I love your cheese making book and the style you use to teach so I know that this book will also be an incredible resource for learning how to make sourdough work with your own lifestyle! Congratulations!

If anyone wants ongoing learning, subscribe to her newsletter. I sincerely enjoy it and learn a ton from it!

Hello Kate
Blessings on you and for your new book! May it be an open door to multitudes for healthier living!

Welcome Kate! Sounds like I may get some good ideas of what to make with my sourdough babies other than "bread" .

Welcome, Kate! Congratulations on your new book.

Congratulations! big accomplishment!

Welcome Kate! I'm always looking for new sourdough tips and hope you'll share some really cool ones!

I bought the PDF of Kate's new book a few days ago, and have now read the first ~50 pages covering the basics fairly thoroughly.  I've also taken "sneak peeks" at a couple of later sections (rye and scalded flour breads, and a quick look at some gluten-free recipes).

Kate has clarified for me why so many sourdough guides differ widely in their procedures, prescriptions and proscriptions.  Simply put, there are lots of ways of making sourdough, but what will work best may vary depending on everything from the available water to the day's weather.  From her extensive experience, Kate describes how variations in temperature, timing, starter percentage, hydration, extraction percentage and much more will affect the outcome.

Most sourdough books either don't take the time to explain the subtleties, or perhaps more likely, may be written by people who lack the breadth of experience of someone like Kate.  Consequently, many books on sourdough - even from very well-regarded and esteemed sources - offer strict recipes as regards ingredients, timing and temperature, the details of which many of us would be hard-pressed to follow to the letter.  And, in my experience, even if carefully followed, may flop - edible, but not what was hoped for.

Not so Kate, who offers me the knowledge, grace and hope to try again, both with sourdough and commercially yeasted whole meal breads.  With winter now in the offing (and hence the heat of baking a welcome addition in the kitchen), I am looking forward to trying again, freshly inspired, with home ground whole meal flour.

I also plan to revisit "The Bread Builders", the "Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book", Vanessa Kimbell's book and several others on my shelf (OK, OK, in a pile next to the bed!), with eyes now informed by the help of Kate's tutelage.

As an indicator of my high regard for Kate's new book, I plan to gift paper copies to three of my relatives, all of whom are accomplished bread bakers, for Christmas this year.

Thank you all for the warm welcome!

I look forward to hanging out in the forums a lot this week.

Lexie Smith wrote:I love your cheese making book and the style you use to teach so I know that this book will also be an incredible resource for learning how to make sourdough work with your own lifestyle! Congratulations!

If anyone wants ongoing learning, subscribe to her newsletter. I sincerely enjoy it and learn a ton from it!

Thank you Lexie.

For anyone that would like to learn more about the newsletters, here's the links:

My main newsletter (homesteading, cheesemaking, cooking, sourdough - monthly): https://thenourishinghearthfire.com/homestead-starter-library/

My weekly sourdough-only newsletter: https://katedownham.kit.com/779eefc56e

Kevin Olson wrote:I bought the PDF of Kate's new book a few days ago, and have now read the first ~50 pages covering the basics fairly thoroughly.  I've also taken "sneak peeks" at a couple of later sections (rye and scalded flour breads, and a quick look at some gluten-free recipes).

Kate has clarified for me why so many sourdough guides differ widely in their procedures, prescriptions and proscriptions.  Simply put, there are lots of ways of making sourdough, but what will work best may vary depending on everything from the available water to the day's weather.  From her extensive experience, Kate describes how variations in temperature, timing, starter percentage, hydration, extraction percentage and much more will affect the outcome.

Most sourdough books either don't take the time to explain the subtleties, or perhaps more likely, may be written by people who lack the breadth of experience of someone like Kate.  Consequently, many books on sourdough - even from very well-regarded and esteemed sources - offer strict recipes as regards ingredients, timing and temperature, the details of which many of us would be hard-pressed to follow to the letter.  And, in my experience, even if carefully followed, may flop - edible, but not what was hoped for.

Not so Kate, who offers me the knowledge, grace and hope to try again, both with sourdough and commercially yeasted whole meal breads.  With winter now in the offing (and hence the heat of baking a welcome addition in the kitchen), I am looking forward to trying again, freshly inspired, with home ground whole meal flour.

I also plan to revisit "The Bread Builders", the "Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book", Vanessa Kimbell's book and several others on my shelf (OK, OK, in a pile next to the bed!), with eyes now informed by the help of Kate's tutelage.

As an indicator of my high regard for Kate's new book, I plan to gift paper copies to three of my relatives, all of whom are accomplished bread bakers, for Christmas this year.

Thanks so much for the kind words about my book!

My best wishes for your warm winter baking. If you end up with extra bread, be sure to try the bread and butter pudding on page 54 - it is so comforting and warming on a cold day, I make extra bread on purpose just to make this!

Hi, Kate!! It's great to see you got another AWESOME book out! I haven't had a chance to really dig into it yet, but I'm really looking forward to it!

Cool, looks like a great book like your others are great too!

I'm a sourdough failure, and it sounds like I could really use this book. A friend from church gave me some of her starter at the same time as a delicious loaf of bread, so I know it was not the starter this time. (I tried for a few months about a year ago, with a starter from scratch a la Sandor Katz instructions, which sorta worked for very dense pumpernickel but never resulted in sourdough.) This time, I knew I had good starter, which I kept going and tried to make bread at least weekly for about six months, and never could get the hang of it, at all. I was at the point of thinking I needed to buy special equipment to raise this and proof that or else to reorganize my entire life around exact feeding schedules and who-knows-what when I realized I was teetering on the brink of bonkers. Besides which, my dream was to have bread on which I could merrily eat tomato sandwiches this year, and as our tomatoes are about done... giving up.

I still have some starter in the fridge but honestly am so discouraged by the 600 million "easy sourdough for beginners" online instrux (all different and none helping me any), not to mention other sites that complexify my discouragement by demands that I measure hydration and balance exactly the right kinds of flours freshly ground from grain, even stipulating countertop versus fridge versus a special expensive box... or maybe I need a special course with an expert to show me secrets of the coil and fold!

I'm willing to learn any process that will work reliably, but I refuse to believe frontier pioneer women measured hydration or dropped everything to feed their starter on a schedule (likely not having a wristwatch out in the fields or barns). I believe it should be possible to add this skill but am losing confidence that it's going to happen for me. I've invested so much time effort and not inconsiderable (for me) money, yet I'm about to go back to not eating bread since I don't trust or care for storebought.

I see the testimonial that this book truly does explain helpful things; on the other hand, maybe I am untrainable. I'd appreciate pointers to anything that would help in the meanwhile, as well as I would of course like to win a free copy of this magical book! Thanks for reading.

Congratulations on your new book! May you be blessed with many successes and with the opportunity to help people bake better bread. I’m thinking I may have to give it a try myself! I’ve always been intimidated by sourdough, but I think it’s time to face that fear and conquer it. 😊🍞

Hi Kate!! There may be too many factors to explain easily, but I was curious why whole-grain flours behave differently from refined flours even when their nominal hydration and other baking conditions are the same?  Thanks, Oscar

You are such a great author.  Thanks for this event and giveaway.

Welcome Kate!!! 🎉🎉🎉👋👋👋

Thank you Raven!

Book giveaways on Permies are so good for authors, and I’m so grateful to everyone who has helped out, both directly with this giveaway, and all the other things behind the scenes that make Permies such a lovely friendly spam-free place to share things and ask questions.

Oscar Daniels wrote:Hi Kate!! There may be too many factors to explain easily, but I was curious why whole-grain flours behave differently from refined flours even when their nominal hydration and other baking conditions are the same?  Thanks, Oscar

There’s a few things that make working with whole grain flours different:

Whole grain flours absorb more water than white flours, so a white flour loaf that is great at 75% hydration will be dry and dense when made with whole grain flour, or a whole grain recipe that is great at 90% hydration could turn into a mess when made with white flour.

The bran in whole grain flours can also be quite sharp, so if you follow a typical white flour recipe by mixing your dough and then kneading for howevermany minutes, the sharp pieces of bran can cut into the gluten strands that you are trying to develop, and result in dense loaves.

Whole grain flours work really well when they are given time to absorb water so that the bran softens. I mix my bread minimally and then leave it to rest before doing any kneading or stretching and folding. Autolyse and fermentolyse are other techniques that are sometimes used with whole grain flours for this reason.

Whole grain breads are best baked for a little longer, at a slightly lower temperature than white flour loaves.

Whole grain loaves also need to be cured properly after baking. Whole wheat breads need to be rested for at least 4 hours before you cut into them, and breads with a lot of rye should be rested for 12 hours or more. If you cut into these breads too early, the texture can be really gummy, because whole grain flours (especially rye) contain a type of carbohydrate called pentosans, which takes time to fully set.

Beyond this, different kinds of whole grains behave differently in baking, different climates produce grains with different properties, and even the same grain grown in the same location changes year-to-year, depending on the growing season - e.g. too much rainfall = less protein

Sea Skinley wrote:I refuse to believe frontier pioneer women measured hydration or dropped everything to feed their starter on a schedule (likely not having a wristwatch out in the fields or barns). I believe it should be possible to add this skill but am losing confidence that it's going to happen for me. I've invested so much time effort and not inconsiderable (for me) money, yet I'm about to go back to not eating bread since I don't trust or care for storebought.

Exactly. People have been baking bread for a long time, long before mixers, proofing boxes, and other expensive gadgets.

For several years I didn't measure for bread, and just got the feel of when things were 'right' for the kinds of breads I liked to make. When I started doing a bunch of experiments and measurements for this book, it turns out when starter feels 'right' to me is pretty much exactly at 100% hydration!

I think by measuring (especially with weight), you can get more consistent results right away and avoid a lot of trial and error, but I think a lot of people take that to the extreme, and treat sourdough as if it's some science experiment that can only be done when conditions are exactly right. I'm off grid, and I need to feed people, so I've figured out ways to make sourdough work with the varying temperatures we get throughout the year in my kitchen, and in a way that works when life is busy.

Some tips that I think can help anyone work better with sourdough:
1. Really care for your starter, and keep it active. Either feed it every day, or once it is nice and active, store it in the fridge, and then give it a couple of 'wake up' feeds before baking.

2. Observe that your starter is rising properly before you feed it or bake with it - a lot of people get impatient or blindly follow someone else's timeline, but sourdough is a living thing, and every starter behaves differently, and if you use it (or feed it) before it is ready, you are diluting all the living things in that starter too early, and the recipe is not going to work as intended.

You might want to see my sourdough starter blog post - it's got a bunch of maintenance instructions and how to adjust your starter through the seasons so that you're not expected to feed it at 2am: https://thenourishinghearthfire.com/2026/04/21/fresh-milled-sourdough-starter-from-scratch/

3. Find recipes and timelines that work with your lifestyle - here's my explanation of how same-day, overnight, and pre-ferment (levain) recipes all work: https://thenourishinghearthfire.com/2026/05/02/sourdough-timelines/

Sourdough becomes so much easier when you can find ways to work with it that fit into your lifestyle - same-day recipes will work great for some people, others might prefer to do an overnight ferment or overnight cold-proof, and others might like the pre-ferment/levain schedule, the key is to be honest, to think "what time of day am I able to see to my dough or feed my starter" and work around that, rather than trying to impose someone else's schedule on your life.

Please remember, replies to this thread won't qualify for the giveaway - you'll need to start a new thread or reply to one in the bread forum

This thread is to welcome Kate (Hi Kate!) You can ask her a question here of course, but it won't win you a book!

Thank you Kate for offering out these books! I love my copy and am super excited to share sourdough baking experiences with everyone I meet!

Thank you for the information on common club moss. I discovered it in Maria Treben's herb book.  It is working beautifully for me. Is this forum like a community club of sorts to join?

Thank you again, s. Kennedy

S. Kennedy wrote:Thank you for the information on common club moss. I discovered it in Maria Treben's herb book.  It is working beautifully for me. Is this forum like a community club of sorts to join?

Thank you again, s. Kennedy

Hi S!  Welcome to Permies!

Thanks for joining us.  This is a community, and since you have posted, you must have registered and therefore joined.

It’s Paul Wheaton’s baby.  Free for the rest of us due to his generosity.  

There are a few verboten topics… we’re here to discuss permaculture, which is a very broad topic, and we don’t discuss or promote toxic products or methods.

He asks us to be nice.  Leave room for other people to have valuable knowledge.  We only discuss controversial topics in the “cider press”.  

There’s more to learn, and there’s a thread that tells it all, but being an old woman and not tech savvy, I will leave it for someone else to direct you there.

Welcome, have fun.  I am going to go find out about common club moss you refer to.

Thekla McDaniels wrote:There’s more to learn, and there’s a thread that tells it all, but being an old woman and not tech savvy, I will leave it for someone else to direct you there.

This is a good thread to start with: https://permies.com/w/how-permies-works  Welcome to permies S. Kennedy, I'm glad you joined us! I'm not too tech savvy either, but permies is a safe place to learn about all sorts of things!

Congratulations, I'm sure more successes will come your way.

Thank you again to Kate Downham, and everyone who contributed to the discussions here about breadmaking this week!

Here are the 4 winners of the Sourdough Without Fail books:

Congratulations to

Thekla McDaniels

Lif Strand

Sea Skinley

May Gardner

Keep an eye out for an email from the publisher to arrange delivery of your book.

Thank you Kate!

Congratulations to the winner!  Enjoy!

What a shock to see my name in the winners list! Thank you so much! I'm super excited!

Thank you to everyone who participated and helped expand our sourdough knowledge.

Enjoy your new books, all who won, and all who bought their copy.

Thanks so much, Kate, for all your time and enthusiasm!

Congratulations to our winners! And thank you so much, Kate and Nancy!!

How exciting!  I’m a winner 😊. Thank you!

I did buy several copies during the kickstarter, and still have a couple of spares.  

Is there a simple procedure to choose another winner or is there a runner up?

I can certainly find a good placement for a copy of Kate’s fabulous Sourdough without Failure , but maybe there’s a very deserving person right here who would love a copy of the book.

I will be looking for PMs or a post for input.  If I don’t hear anything, I’ll proceed with receiving this most generous prize.