Hardy Kiwi Guild

Hardy kiwi varieties Anna and Meader (Issai not so much) do excellent in my area's clay soil, and I am still toying with what may go well with them in the shade. Not much info online about kiwi guilds. What have y'all tried?

I wondered about this a few years back, and just got some kiwi vines ordered!

When I asked a few years back (https://permies.com/t/49407/Growing-Kiwis-Grapes-blackberries) people said that kiwis grow well with other vining plants like blackberries, grapes and passionfruit. A lot of things seem to grow well with them, and strawberries seem to be a popular ground cover.

Since my kiwis will be in a raised bed to keep them dry during their growing season, I don't know how many other plants I'll be able to grow with them, but I am planning on having strawberries as a ground cover!

Are you planning to grow them up trees, or on a constructed trellis?

I have a couple of spruce trees that I am considering as a kiwi trellis... problem is the spruce needles are so damned pointy that pruning and picking will be unpleasant. May end up removing them, but then it's either wait for replacement trees to grow, or build a trellis... and I'm busy!

Kevin, good to hear those two do well in clay for you, I have a LOT of clay... pretty sure I've got an 'Anna' among my cultivars..

Other than maybe apple trees for trellis, I figure I will mostly pair potted stuff with them, taking advantage of the windbreak and shade for nursery plants than need some protection.

I am growing them on a trellis. Even though I wouldn't call them invasive, they are certainly aggressive in growth in the shade where I live. Very similar in vigor to Japanese honeysuckle. I wouldn't advise growing them on a tree, but they might go well with a nitrogen fixer like an Autumn olive. Blackberries where I live like full hot sun, so they wouldn't be as good a pick. Perhaps raspberries, if they had a better tolerance to clay soil. Passionfruit might work well, but would be a mess removing the dead each year from the mass of kiwi vines, as maypop passionfruit dies to the ground each year.

At the moment I am already growing a permaculture vineyard with grapes and blackberries. The issue with grapes is I have to remove the stretches of vines that go past their allotted space. With as vigorous as kiwi are it would be very difficult to get them out. I have kiwi right now that have reached across the walking path and have grown into each other. For the most part I think most plants would have to be limited to the bottom three foot of the trellis to be a viable companion where I live. I have tried currants and gooseberries, but the varieties I have planted do not seem to like clay soil as I mentioned in another post. Black raspberries might be a viable option. Right now I have a small guild of a black walnut with black raspberries and daylilies.

The big note to this is hardy kiwi do have a shade requirement for how hot my area gets, but they do very well. So options need to be more shade friendly.

I love Kiwi. Never tried to grow it, but after reading how you guys are doing maybe I will give it a try!

Interesting. The ones I planted at my parents place seemed to want more sun; I have seen them happy in pretty much full sun in my biome.

Are you putting your trellis below larger trees, or the north side of a structure for shade? Or some other technique? I am not well versed in short, shade loving plants, I am sure there are some great options in terms of forest floor herbs, ephemerals, bulbs and such... maybe a post seeking those would draw in someone with better info.


Deedee, I think hardy kiwis are one of the best things around. I like them better than the regular full size kiwis, and am baffled that they are not more common! There are numerous cultivars, and several varieties with some variation in cold hardiness and sun preference, so they are suited to a really wide range of climates and sites!

Yeah it regularly gets to 100 in Late July and August here in West Ky. I have also seen it get to 115 about six years ago, so yeah it just simply to hot for them in direct sun here. The trellis is under some trees in a nestled area toward a small valley, and it is oriented East/West, but they probably gets about 4 hours or so of sunlight. I know toward Maine it grows like Kudzu! Maybe if I am fortunate I can get some well trimmed lovage to grow in the spot, but it still maybe too hot for the lovage to grow either. I definately do want to find another shorter fruit to grow along with it.

I am growing hardy and fuzzy kiwi (A. Chinensis) in a pergola with a shade cloth over head.  I spread out some White Dutch Clover on top of the wood chips i did under the pergola.  
I will folllow this discussion for any good ideas.

I have fuzzy kiwi and kiwi berries growing on different trellises next to our grape arbors. I have done underplantings of bulbs (tulip, daffodil, etc), calendula, lovage and lemon balm. Then some strawberries here and there (honeoye mostly) to create a denser carpet underneath it all. A couple of comfrey plants (which will become a thousand in no time flat) round everything out. Our arbors are in direct sun, being in the northwest, but positioned so that the sun sets behind a building cooling them off by about 5:00pm in the summer. They are lined up like a stand of pony hitches, about chest high, and everything just grows underneath them. They are about 4.5 feet high and 10 feet long.

I chop and drop the comfrey whenever it gets big, and mulch really well in the late fall with rabbit/duck manure and bedding and then top off with thick wood chip mulch (with some evergreen boughs to keep the slugs off). This year, I'm going to plant daikon radish in there as well to dig way down and bring nutrients up top. Then I'll pick 'em and pickle 'em. We have very sandy, rocky soil, and have been working on introducing a rich amount of biomass. My wheelbarrow never worked this hard...

Anyhow - I've gone off track. Good luck with your guild! I know how hot it can get down there - this last year we were in the 90's for about 3 weeks and the kiwi's took a beating. Over time, I may have to relocate or shade cloth them as the summers get hotter.

Cheers!

I planted 3 hardy kiwi here in my heavy clay 4 years ago.  They are alive,  but the largest is less than a foot tall.   They have been snipped off by rabbits in the winter twice but have never grown more than 6 inches or so in a summer.

I heard a neat idea.  Since hardy kiwi's need a sturdy trellis, and trelli take up room, put the female kiwis on trellises (trilli?) and let the males climb up a tree you don't care about (spruce, etc).  The bees don't care and you don't need to pick it so why build a trellis for the male kiwis.

Side note, my kiwis are about 9' tall and growing strongly.  But they seem to be pretty light weight.  I read that they need huge and sturdy trellises.  Do they really need to be sturdy or just big?  I have some cuttings so I hope to start several more this year.

I agree Dillon, I got my first fruit last year and they seemed like a no brainer.  Big enough to make picking worthwhile, no fuzzy skin to work around and they taste great.  You think everyone would want one in their back yard...

Trace Oswald wrote:I planted 3 hardy kiwi here in my heavy clay 4 years ago.  They are alive,  but the largest is less than a foot tall.   They have been snipped off by rabbits in the winter twice but have never grown more than 6 inches or so in a summer.

We rarely have rabbit problems anymore since we take chicken wire and cut about a 1'x2' piece and face the barbs up. If you have trouble with voles face the barbs down.

Also ours are about 25' considering all the vines. The key for us was shade, and our soil is a very heavy clay.

Mike Jay wrote:I heard a neat idea.  Since hardy kiwi's need a sturdy trellis, and trelli take up room, put the female kiwis on trellises (trilli?) and let the males climb up a tree you don't care about (spruce, etc).  The bees don't care and you don't need to pick it so why build a trellis for the male kiwis.

Side note, my kiwis are about 9' tall and growing strongly.  But they seem to be pretty light weight.  I read that they need huge and sturdy trellises.  Do they really need to be sturdy or just big?  I have some cuttings so I hope to start several more this year.

I agree Dillon, I got my first fruit last year and they seemed like a no brainer.  Big enough to make picking worthwhile, no fuzzy skin to work around and they taste great.  You think everyone would want one in their back yard...

I suggest a large trellis because they can go crazy. In the Northeast they scale hundred foot trees. They are said to bear up to 100 lbs of fruit, still hoping they bloom this year, since the bud so early.

Kevin Goheen wrote:We rarely have rabbit problems anymore since we take chicken wire and cut about a 1'x2' piece and face the barbs up. If you have trouble with voles face the barbs down.

How do you arrange the chicken wire piece?  Flat on the ground?  By "barbs", I'm assuming you mean the cut wires of the chicken wire?

Do those hardy kiwifruit do well in zone 7?

They survive pretty reliably here in zone 4.

i use hardware cloth
1 cm (ish) square welded stuff
any i cut rectangles and bend them into a cylinder linking some of the barbs with tin snips
i bend out every other sharp bit from where i made the cut...i cut on angles
i cut some on the middle sections of the cylinder and bend them outwards
sometimes you come back to check on the plants and anything beyond the mesh is eaten
hardware cloth is more expensive than chicken wire so often i would make a larger one of chicken wire
along the lines of laying it flat... i almost did this because of squirrels digging in my pots
i was going to cut circles with space for the stem and bend barbs upwards

i have a hardy kiwi outside right now... it has seen -15c  and snow but it is mild right now
i was thinking of bringing it inside when the temps are about to dip again

Mine's a full-size fuzzy kiwi on a pair of recycled swing-set frames as a trellis. It took a *long* time to give me a crop, and didn't until I gave it more sun by pruning the tall cedar north of it, but I can't be sure whether that was its age in the ground or the increased light. I've tried planting garlic under it, but I wouldn't say it's been that happy. There's a Lovage in one corner and it's been happy (north-east corner). I was donated a couple of hostas but that's recent enough that I'm not prepared to say how they'll do. Some hostas are edible (fresh growth), but I have to plant them where the deer can't get them as they agree. I admit I haven't tried comfrey under the kiwi trellis, but I did plant some this year just on the south west corner and so far it's been very happy.

I friend would like me to take a kiwi berry vine off her hands, so that needs to go on my list but there are too many other plants in my queue!

Lindsey Jane wrote:I have fuzzy kiwi and kiwi berries growing on different trellises next to our grape arbors. ... Our arbors are in direct sun, being in the northwest, but positioned so that the sun sets behind a building cooling them off by about 5:00pm in the summer. They are lined up like a stand of pony hitches, about chest high, and everything just grows underneath them. They are about 4.5 feet high and 10 feet long.

I know how hot it can get down there - this last year we were in the 90's for about 3 weeks and the kiwi's took a beating. Over time, I may have to relocate or shade cloth them as the summers get hotter.

Cheers!

How are your kiwi doing after the late June 2021 heat dome (100+ degrees F)? I just got my 1st kiwi plants, a female Chang Bai (Korean variety) and a male 'Meader'. They are still in pots and I need to decide how much shade they need, which I have more of then sunny areas. The female lost all of its leaves after the 3 day heat wave in late June  and it was in the forest shade at the time. On the other hand, a fig in the driveway up our tall forested lot, has never produced figs so I do not want to repeat that with the kiwis. I can plant it in or around my garden (w electric fence which I only bated with peanut butter foil one last Oct and still seems to be keeping the deer out). Even my garden edges get a lot of shade, the middle gets about 6 hours of sun in mid summer.

Considerations to help me decide where/when to plant my potted kiwi's (female location mostly - male will go up a tree within 50 feet from female):

How much sun/shade will it need to produce fruit?

Trells design, what length is needed for 1 plant?

Deer protection; inside the fencing or if outside (more shaded), other ideas.

shall I bring it inside for the winter, keep in pots or plant in the fall?

Please advise?

My kiwi is about 5 years old and has climbed up 7' and is sprawling another 5'.  We got a late freeze and it lost all its leaves and many of the younger branches died.  But it lives on.

Deer happily eat it so if you protect the bottom 5' it will be fine.  I can't imagine keeping it in a pot and moving it once it's more than 2 years old.

Thanks Mike! So 7 or 8 feet tall and 10 feet wide sounds like good trellis dimensions. How deep... 4 feet maybe?
You think 5 feet of fence is enough to stop deer munchies? Maybe I should put it inside my e-Fenced garden - I hate to use up the space though. Maybe I will place it outside but add more fencing.   Is it ok to transplant it in winter, or fall?

I will say that I am trying.  I have three hardy kiwis who have made it through a summer and two of them made it through a winter also. None of them have bloomed yet and I am that sloppy kind of gardener who doesn't write things down,  so I am unsure of their pronouns.  All of them are on the cool side of a hugely and surrounded by tansy and borage and grass. The tansy tried to eat one of them but she(she?) seems more vigorous since I cut back mother tansy. I will be interested in this thread.

Julie Wolf wrote:Thanks Mike! So 7 or 8 feet tall and 10 feet wide sounds like good trellis dimensions. How deep... 4 feet maybe?
You think 5 feet of fence is enough to stop deer munchies? Maybe I should put it inside my e-Fenced garden - I hate to use up the space though. Maybe I will place it outside but add more fencing.   Is it ok to transplant it in winter, or fall?

Mine is a vertical mesh trellis so I'm not sure about the "depth".  Once it gets up 8 feet high, it spreads across a pergola.  If it wasn't for the winter dieback this year it probably would have spread 8' across the trellis.