Taken to task for avoiding the landfill by reusing bricks...WTH?

I live in a largely brick, urban neighborhood. In years past, old brick from buildings being torn down was extremely easy to come by. These days it is a little harder. I've had two big scores in 4 years. Most sites actually have people that palletize them and haul them off for sale by the pallet and/or building projects. Old brick has become fashionable. At other sites I've had people tell me their insurance doesn't cover non-employees so they had to say no. In others, I've had people not want to fool with it and had them tell me $40 a truckload as they were actively dumping them into dumpsters headed for the landfill.

So, I was excited this last week when an operator told me it would be no problem. I swore I'd stay out of their way. It worked well but they moved VERY quickly to get the job done so I was only able to hit the site a few times before it was all gone. Everything else went to the landfill. Add to that the fact that I don't have a truck and there is only so much brick one can put into a small car at any given time.

Anyway, I was able to get about 460 bricks. I wanted them for edging garden beds. I got a little over half of what I needed for front and side yards. As I'm horsing them from car to yard and laying them where I plan on installing them in the Spring, a guy walks by and started chastising me for wasting perfectly good bricks.  It wasn't a quick comment and continue walking down the street. I explained I diverted these from going to the landfill. Unconvinced, he lingered and wanted to push the issue further. I was polite at first but as it started to heat up it ended with me telling him that if he had a project he needed brick for, to feel free to find some somewhere and have at it. In the meantime, I'm the one making decisions for this property, my work efforts, and outcomes. He walked away grumbling. Has anyone ever been berated for something like this? I'm doing everything I can to scrounge materials and make them blend into a historic urban area where visible changes are commonly brought into question. In the back yard, since it isn't visible, I have more options but scrounging materials is still my goal. Anyway, I guess I just don't understand how someone feels justified to lay into someone for putting in the work to rescue materials and reuse them just because they feel there could be a higher purpose. He seemed to view the situation as subtractive when I felt it was wholly additive.

Hi Echo;  
Chalk that guy up as just an "a hole"
You are doing a great thing saving brick from the landfill.
Anyone who thinks that is wrong, can just go be full of himself somewhere else!
Saving and reusing brick, is a time honored tradition dating back as far as man has been making clay bricks.
Who knows what that guys problem was... but shame on him for raining on your parade!

The odd thought crossed my mind that perhaps he wanted to talk to you.... but by  being an ass he certainly choose the wrong way!
As a similar saying goes Pluck him!  Carry on with the good work!

sounds to me like he thought you should be building a wall with them or something, but yeah, your salvage is your salvage. i tend to think that anyone who thinks they can tell other people what they ‘should’ be doing is an asshole and worth ignoring.

WTH indeed. Some people are born jerks, others achieve it by degrees.

I would have been tempted to say "They're for sale, for the right price." A high price, since now they are "distressed-chic." That would have shut him up.

It happens to me much too frequently.  I can give you a long list of what I regard as similar interactions.  In all cases the individual had no idea what I was doing. What really rankles me is that it is individuals like this that give people who are more ecology minded a bad rep.

I've found the line of people willing to tell me what to do with my resources stretches well beyond the horizon.

Remember if you can't please everyone you ought to please Bill Haynes, is words to live by!

There are a lot of people in the world who are desperate for others to validate their (bad) decisions by making us do things their way.  Generally I can excuse people for broad but shallow thinking, or narrow but deep thinking.  This seems to be an example of narrow & shallow which is perhaps not thinking so much as emotional reaction and thus is hard to deal with!  Good for you on standing your ground, and I respect your need for us to validate your (good) decisions!

Plus kudos to you for "horseing" the bricks to your yard, keeping an eye on your wallet and the planet at the same time.

p.s.  I must note that my woodclamps, however lightly used they may be and conveniently displayed, do NOT belong in the garden.

It's almost never about the bricks.

Maybe he just got chewed out be someone and he was looking to blow off steam by attacking someone else. Maybe he was hungry for conversation but only knows how to start arguments. Maybe he had a hungry ego looking to take a chomp out of yours by telling you "you're doing it wrong!" Only he might know, and he might well not have been self aware enough to have a clue.

Enjoy the heck out of those bricks this spring as you dress up those beds!

echo minarosa wrote:Has anyone ever been berated for something like this?...I just don't understand how someone feels justified to lay into someone for putting in the work to rescue materials and reuse them just because they feel there could be a higher purpose. He seemed to view the situation as subtractive when I felt it was wholly additive.

The world is full of crazy, angry people, who are looking to displace some of that craziness and anger onto other people. (They do it with fear, and feelings of personal inadequacy, as well.) Congratulations! You've encountered one in the wild.

The issue was not the bricks, or the appropriateness of your reuse of them. It had nothing to do with you at all, in fact. I have no idea what was going on in that guy's mind that led him to react as he did--and chances are, he doesn't either (or else he'd know not to attack total strangers over trivial matters).

I currently live in Seattle, while waiting for the sale on my future Permie Paradise to close. I've lived here for roughly 16 years, and will probably keep a toehold here because it's great scavenging territory. I'm always finding stuff to use or sell as I roam my own neighborhood, and my evening walks through the alleys includes peeking into recycling bins to see if there's anything useful. In the fall, it's extra bags of leaves left alongside yard waste containers.

Whatever I take, I only take it if it's unambiguously there for the taking, and I don't leave a mess--anything I pull out of a recycling bin while retrieving my prize goes straight back in. But there are still people who get angry at me for taking clearly cast-off items.

One woman, on the next alley over, actually called the cops on me when I was out early on a Trashday morning, stuffing yard waste bags full of leaves into (and on top of) my hatchback as the yard waste truck made its final approach. She came out to yell at me, and threatened to call the cops (note: none of the bags I was taking were hers). I just laughed at her and said, "Yeah, you do that."

To my surprise, she did. The cops came out within 20 minutes, because she told them I was belligerent and threatened her. When they caught up to me I was back home, unloading bags in the alley. After a brief chat, they decided I was not the belligerent one, and I got some good advice on how to deal with her in the future.

The following week, she was out there again, and again threatened to call the cops. I told her I'd already talked to them the previous week when she called. I also told her that misuse of police resources is a punishable offense, that repeatedly calling the cops to harrass me for doing something perfectly legal would only get her in trouble, and that I would cooperate fully with the police if they decided to cite her.

She's never called the cops since, but she's occasionally come out to harangue me when I'm peeking in recycling bins. The house directly across the alley from hers is my primary source of 2-liter soda bottles, so they're a frequent stop, and I'm there for at least a few minutes, rummaging for them and replacing anything else I took out. She sometimes comes out into the alley and will stand there and watch me as I continue to make my way along it.

This has been going on for 14 years.

Whatever her problem is? It's not me, and never was.

That said, I do occasionally get a "drive-by" critic while scavenging, and I don't engage them for the same reason. But if they want to dump their crazy on me, I can have fun doing crazy right back, which sends them scurrying. Seattle is one of the most unchurched cities in the US, so giving them a walloping dose of street-preacher crazy gets them moving right along. So does standing there and repeatedly asking them, "Why are you so unhappy?"

thomas rubino wrote:
Saving and reusing brick, is a time honored tradition dating back as far as man has been making clay bricks.
Who knows what that guys problem was... but shame on him for raining on your parade!

About 55+ years ago (when I was very, very young), a house across the street was deserted and going to be torn down. My older brother, a gardening addict, had me help him carry several bricks from the house to his garden. I could barely lift them. And I'm sure that scavenging bricks started a looong time before that (like you said).

Melissa Bee wrote:I currently live in Seattle, while waiting for the sale on my future Permie Paradise to close. I've lived here for roughly 16 years, and will probably keep a toehold here because it's great scavenging territory. I'm always finding stuff to use or sell as I roam my own neighborhood, and my evening walks through the alleys includes peeking into recycling bins to see if there's anything useful. In the fall, it's extra bags of leaves left alongside yard waste containers.

Whatever I take, I only take it if it's unambiguously there for the taking, and I don't leave a mess--anything I pull out of a recycling bin while retrieving my prize goes straight back in. But there are still people who get angry at me for taking clearly cast-off items.

One woman, on the next alley over, actually called the cops on me when I was out early on a Trashday morning, stuffing yard waste bags full of leaves into (and on top of) my hatchback as the yard waste truck made its final approach. She came out to yell at me, and threatened to call the cops (note: none of the bags I was taking were hers). I just laughed at her and said, "Yeah, you do that."

To my surprise, she did. The cops came out within 20 minutes, because she told them I was belligerent and threatened her. When they caught up to me I was back home, unloading bags in the alley. After a brief chat, they decided I was not the belligerent one, and I got some good advice on how to deal with her in the future.

The following week, she was out there again, and again threatened to call the cops. I told her I'd already talked to them the previous week when she called. I also told her that misuse of police resources is a punishable offense, that repeatedly calling the cops to harrass me for doing something perfectly legal would only get her in trouble, and that I would cooperate fully with the police if they decided to cite her.

She's never called the cops since, but she's occasionally come out to harangue me when I'm peeking in recycling bins. The house directly across the alley from hers is my primary source of 2-liter soda bottles, so they're a frequent stop, and I'm there for at least a few minutes, rummaging for them and replacing anything else I took out. She sometimes comes out into the alley and will stand there and watch me as I continue to make my way along it.

This has been going on for 14 years.

Whatever her problem is? It's not me, and never was.

That said, I do occasionally get a "drive-by" critic while scavenging, and I don't engage them for the same reason. But if they want to dump their crazy on me, I can have fun doing crazy right back, which sends them scurrying. Seattle is one of the most unchurched cities in the US, so giving them a walloping dose of street-preacher crazy gets them moving right along. So does standing there and repeatedly asking them, "Why are you so unhappy?"

If I had a pie, I would give it to you for this post. This is very encouraging to anyone being harassed.

I'm all for scavenging building products when I can (that includes building any kind of garden/greenhouse).

Being an introvert, I came up with my own solution for people like that.  I pretend I'm deaf and dumb.  I even act it out, pointing at my ears and shaking my head "no". I draw a line across my throat with my finger so they "know" I can't talk.  If they speak again, I smile, shrug and walk away.  I don't have time to waste with people like that.  My free time is precious to me and I want to be doing what I want to be doing, not talking to some asshat that knows better than I do what I should do.  I think I should have some cards made up and laminated saying that I am a deaf mute, but if they have any money they would like to donate, I would really appreciate it.

seems like that one would be harder to pull off if you’ve already responded to their opening attention-getting line.

greg mosser wrote:seems like that one would be harder to pull off if you’ve already responded to their opening attention-getting line.

If your awareness is such that you missed them approaching, or you were concentrating so intently that you missed it, you may want to try something else.  Then again, it may work even better if the person has already spoken to you in the past and knows you and hear and speak. How annoying would that be for them if you insisted on pretending you couldn't converse with them when they knew full well that you could?

greg mosser wrote:seems like that one would be harder to pull off if you’ve already responded to their opening attention-getting line.

Very few people pay close enough attention to realize that.

I was mute for 3 years due to a vocal chord injury. In addition to the fact that I responded to sounds, I also wore a badge that said "Voiceless - but can hear every word", and another that said "MUTE - NOT DEAF".  People still insisted I was deaf, because I couldn't speak.

T Bate wrote:If I had a pie, I would give it to you for this post. This is very encouraging to anyone being harassed.

I'm all for scavenging building products when I can (that includes building any kind of garden/greenhouse).

Haha, thanks!

There is no law where I live against scavenging, in itself. Trespassing, yes--but I respect private property and only take stuff that is reachable from the alley, sidewalk, or other public right-of-way. If it's not, I'll ask permission before taking it. Anything that is clearly being discarded is fair game, and I have a right to take it. Observers have a right to form negative opinions of that. But they don't have the right to harass or threaten me. And if somebody really doesn't want scavengers looking through their recycling, they can remove it from public access.

I've had a couple of minor encounters with residents who came out and found me looking through their recycling; mostly, they were just startled to see me, and the impulse to defend one's territory kicked in. I'm always polite, and explain what I'm doing and what I'm looking for. If I'm close to home, I'll tell them where I live and introduce myself. And that (and the fact that I'm a middle-aged woman who looks relatively normal) calms them down right away.

It boils down to knowing what I am legally allowed to do (and not do), calmly asserting my right to do it, and being as respectful as I can of others while at the same time refusing to be bullied. As a lifelong weirdo, I'm okay with other people having less-than-flattering opinions of me and what I'm doing; my only expectation is that they allow me to do it undisturbed. And the great majority of people , it seems, are willing to do just that.

Melissa Bee wrote:It boils down to knowing what I am legally allowed to do (and not do), calmly asserting my right to do it, and being as respectful as I can of others while at the same time refusing to be bullied. As a lifelong weirdo, I'm okay with other people having less-than-flattering opinions of me and what I'm doing; my only expectation is that they allow me to do it undisturbed. And the great majority of people , it seems, are willing to do just that.

I think this is it. Knowing where and what one can legally scavenge in one's town/city/county.

My, this is an encouraging thread!  I have scavenged all sorts of wonderful, useful items, including a working TV, a china cabinet, and a wardrobe, besides an array of things to repurpose in my garden.  The DH had to put the brakes on my scavenging when the "harvest" surpassed our garage capacity.

I have on occasion felt a little awkward when someone was giving me "the eye" for scavenging, but it didn't stop me.  One borough in Delaware county, Pa used to have an annual Bulk Trash week. The first three days of the week, the public works folks expected residents to go "shopping" and thus significantly reduce the amount they had to collect and cart to the landfill the last two days.  One year a homeowner rebuked me for scavenging, said it was vulgar and disreputable, etc.; I just laughed and shook my head.  Alas, the borough has given itself airs and now does not have the "eyesore" Bulk Trash week.  (I wonder if that woman had something to do with its demise?)

I am not trying to discourage anyone from gathering otherwise wasted material.  To go back to the late 70s,a young woman I worked with was walking through the woods following a paved lane. She came upon a complex of old buildings that were in a severe state of decay.  She removed a slate shingle from one of the buildings for some art project.  As if the place was under 24/7 surveillance,  a police car pulled up.  It seems like it was an old complex still owned by the state.  Yes, she was arrested and charged. She ended up paying a fine.

One key is that it had been attached to a building .... the state of decay did not matter.

FWIW

Even if not owned by the State, there is very little property in this old world not owned by someone.

Trash piles on public grounds, are about the only sites I can conceive of that would be fair game, everything else , no matter how trashy is someones property until deliberately disposed of.
I certainly would be infuriated (and willing to prosecute..and persecute) anyone helping themselves without prior agreement to the various "junk" I have accumulated!
Often stuff sits for years as I collect for this project or that,
I currently engender anger over an old Dodge diesel I have keeping the sunlight off the weeds, with several people stopping and inquiring after increasingly rare parts, every year,
Many of them storm off after expressing disgust that "I'm just letting it rust into the ground".
Fortunately its within sight of the house,

On a previous property we stored an old Mustang in a shed about a quarter mile from the dwelling, it sat unmolested for a year, and then wheels, carburetor, and later seats were stolen. Finally we interrupted someone putting wheels back on it in preparation to tow it away! They honestly didn't think it was theft!
To them it was an abandoned vehicle (they kept saying it was "a barn find?") and they had every intention of applying for a lost title and restoring it.
I agreed not to prosecute if they paid for the missing wheels, carburetor, and seats, and we settled on a price of $1000.00,
I don't know that they took the wheels, carburetor, or seats....but I do know they were thieves, caught red handed.

I've never had law enforcement actually solve a crime .. but I report them all promptly so when I find my stuff I can point to a recorded theft, guns and tools in pawn shops are the hardest to recover, pictures and written records of serial #s are your friends!
Even for the sake of Insurance replacement, a quarterly or at most biennial video inventory of shed contents and shop supplies can be a life saver.

Bill Haynes wrote:FWIW

Even if not owned by the State, there is very little property in this old world not owned by someone.

Trash piles on public grounds, are about the only sites I can conceive of that would be fair game, everything else , no matter how trashy is someones property until deliberately disposed of.
I certainly would be infuriated (and willing to prosecute..and persecute) anyone helping themselves without prior agreement to the various "junk" I have accumulated!
Often stuff sits for years as I collect for this project or that,
I currently engender anger over an old Dodge diesel I have keeping the sunlight off the weeds, with several people stopping and inquiring after increasingly rare parts, every year,
Many of them storm off after expressing disgust that "I'm just letting it rust into the ground".
Fortunately its within sight of the house,

On a previous property we stored an old Mustang in a shed about a quarter mile from the dwelling, it sat unmolested for a year, and then wheels, carburetor, and later seats were stolen. Finally we interrupted someone putting wheels back on it in preparation to tow it away! They honestly didn't think it was theft!
To them it was an abandoned vehicle (they kept saying it was "a barn find?") and they had every intention of applying for a lost title and restoring it.
I agreed not to prosecute if they paid for the missing wheels, carburetor, and seats, and we settled on a price of $1000.00,
I don't know that they took the wheels, carburetor, or seats....but I do know they were thieves, caught red handed.

I've never had law enforcement actually solve a crime .. but I report them all promptly so when I find my stuff I can point to a recorded theft, guns and tools in pawn shops are the hardest to recover, pictures and written records of serial #s are your friends!
Even for the sake of Insurance replacement, a quarterly or at most biennial video inventory of shed contents and shop supplies can be a life saver.

I like to think that most people restrict their "gathering" to dumpsters or trash that is clearly placed on the street with other trash to be taken away.  Just going on to someone's property and taking something without their permission is stealing, plain and simple.  Even going on and "looking around" is trespassing at best.

I wouldn't take anything attached to a building unless the owner said I could. Even if it is obvious trash (put at the curb to be picked up), I would want to know what my local laws were first.

There is just so much that goes into landfills that could be rescued. It makes me really sad that dumps are not as open to public picking as they were 30 years ago (at least in areas I have lived in).

John F Dean wrote:I am not trying to discourage anyone from gathering otherwise wasted material.  To go back to the late 70s,a young woman I worked with was walking through the woods following a paved lane. She came upon a complex of old buildings that were in a severe state of decay.  She removed a slate shingle from one of the buildings for some art project.  As if the place was under 24/7 surveillance,  a police car pulled up.  It seems like it was an old complex still owned by the state.  Yes, she was arrested and charged. She ended up paying a fine.

One key is that it had been attached to a building .... the state of decay did not matter.

I don't scavenge anything for which I don't have permission. I was taught early by a grandfather that is a good way to be on the wrong end of violence. Not quite the way he put it but you get the idea. He was a tender soul to most, but an avenging demon if you wronged him.

Even out scavenging bags of leaves can be an opportunity...or a bit of unpleasantness. I've had people chastise me for doing so. Others tell me when they're putting them out next or how they just set out a number of bags a block over. I've had people thank me for composting them and putting them to use, and others tell me what trash I am to scavenge leaves. I truly pity that latter group. But, I don't focus on them. Ultimately, I try to focus on building and creating during my life. It might all be for naught...or it might be of benefit to me, others, and animals  now, and some benefit to others after I'm gone. I chose to believe the latter. If I'm wrong, it won't matter. :)

thomas rubino wrote:Saving and reusing brick, is a time honored tradition dating back as far as man has been making clay bricks.

For a long time, the monument was used as a limitless stone quarry. Its material like marble, Iron, and travertine was either stolen or taken to be used in other structures.

Not bricks specifically, but I have scene people berate dumpster divers for what they didn't take that might have been useful, or for what they decide to do with the things they do take. Its just angry people wanting what you have with out doing the work to get what ever it is.

Hi Victoria,

Great point!   I would limit it to just being angry people.  I once knew a woman, I swear, who hated herself to death.  She hated everything, every activity, and everyone.  She was found dead on her kitchen floor ....she was in her 40s.  No cause of death was determined.

Victoria Jankowski wrote:Not bricks specifically, but I have scene people berate dumpster divers for what they didn't take that might have been useful, or for what they decide to do with the things they do take. Its just angry people wanting what you have with out doing the work to get what ever it is.

I'm a dumpster diver, was near an apartment complex, getting some chairs out of the dumpster and a kid (9 ish? 11?) came up and said "you can't have that, those are my grandmas!" I said "She threw them away, I'm going to give them a new life in a new home." He ran back to tell his grandma, came back looking sheepish "She says to ask you if you want the rest of them too." "thank you!" I talked to grandma, nice lady, we talked about kids not having a clue about what things are worth and what can or can't be fixed. Ended up with a nice set of 6 chairs, 3 of which needed work. When I moved, 8 years or so later, they came with me.

I often have encounters with the police when dumpster diving, some are concerned that I'm hungry, some that I'm going to get hurt (then they see the step stool, leather gloves, hooked sticks, hand sanitizer, paper towels, plastic bags etc that I have with me) some are concerned I'm a problem (that doesn't last, I tell them about cleaning up the areas around dumpsters and being polite, rude dumpster divers make people lock their trash cans.) And some get my rant on "The expression is Reduce, Reuse, Recycle, I'm the Reuse part of that equation! This will get used for this reason, that for this, this I don't need, I'll toss it to a thrift store..." They give up. The town I used to live in I was a known quantity, not a problem. Cop spotlights would scan across, hit my car, and they'd just keep going.  "It's just her." Unless it was a boring pre-dawn, then they'd stop to chat, see if I had found anything interesting, sometimes end up with some of it

I always stay friendly and polite and quiet when I trash pick, anything I'm not POSITIVE is trash I'll ask. I leave notes signed "Your friendly neighborhood dumpster diver" Always clean up not only after myself, but all around the area. I ended up with people leaving things out with notes addressed to "the friendly neighborhood dumpster diver" "Can you use this?" I leave them "Yes! Thank you!!"

It's good to be a positive influence on people's perceptions. Most don't realize how useful the things they get rid of are. Couple of times I'd tell someone what I was planning to do with their trash, they'd look startled, hadn't thought of that. "Here, take it back, use it that way, I'll find more!"

Formidable Vegetable Sound System has a song called "No such thing as waste" that I have linked several times on Permies, and I REALLY agree with the rhyme they use for waste: disgrace. It IS a disgrace what gets tossed. And I try to make people feel good about the concept of reuse.