Search...
Home Subscribe
Pie
Home Subscribe
Recent topics Flagged topics Hot topics Best topics
Search...
Search within rainwater catchment Search permies
Advance search Google search
Register / Login
rocket mass heater dvd
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
Gardening playing cards kickstarter Free heat movie Full online Permaculture Design course and Appropriate Technology Course video list of PIE benefits here on permies apropedia logo garden
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Carla Burke
  • Nancy Reading
  • John F Dean
  • paul wheaton
  • r ranson
  • Timothy Norton
  • Jay Angler
stewards:
  • Andrés Bernal
  • Pearl Sutton
  • Anne Miller
master gardeners:
  • Christopher Weeks
gardeners:
  • M Ljin
  • Jeremy VanGelder
  • thomas rubino

Rain water catchment and plastic

 
Scott Lawhead
Posts: 87
23
posted 3 years ago
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
How to get around the use of plastic with rainwater catchment for household water use?

Concrete has a huge environmental cost, stainless probably even more so and hugely expensive, a natural pond seems like a sketchy way to get drinking water. What other materials are there for water storage?

I try to not use plastic for food/water related activities. I know we are as a planet bathed in petroleum byproducts, but every bit helps. I know there are better and worse types of plastic, but it’s still a material that will be around looooong after I’m gone.

My well is deep, not very productive, and my area is seeing explosive growth and lots of new wells, which makes me think my well will not be adequate in the coming years, hopefully decades.

How do I figure proof my property? A 20,000 liter poly tank would go a long way, but then everything that gets that water also gets a little bit of plastic. And if my food gets little doses of plastic, then I am getting little doses of plastic as I am at the top of my food chain. Bioaccumulation ends with me, until something eats me.

I am hoping the experts will weigh in here, including the rain water catchment legend John C Daley.

Thanks team!
 
John C Daley
pollinator
Posts: 5756
Location: Bendigo , Australia
521
I like...
plumbing earthworks bee building homestead greening the desert
posted 3 years ago
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks for the title Scott.
I use 20,000L poly tanks.
I use poly because the relevant authorities have explained that food grade poly is safe for humans.
I am aware others wish to challenge that, but since I am a Civil Engineer and not a plastics expert I defer to them.
I am also aware experts have been proven wrong in the past and I guess thats the dilemma of the 21st Century.

I can only say do proper research. Unless you have agricultural or industrial pollution you will also find you do not need zonifiers, stringers, calorifics or analysing tripticons either.
Just  large volume tanks holding enough for settlement and self cleaning to occur.

Galvanised water tanks of 20,000L capacity are available.
I am fascinated by the use of wells, and as you mention as areas grow so does the attacks on the aquifers.
In India and Palestine the water table has dropped 100's of feet.
There are limits to the volume down there, that many humans dont want to accept.

Which of course takes us back to the original water source, the sky.
From; Drinking rainwater
Most rain is perfectly safe to drink and may be even cleaner than the public water supply.
Rainwater is only as clean as its container.
Only rain that has fallen directly from the sky should be collected for drinking.
your_private_drinking_water_supply.pdf

John Daley Bendigo, Australia The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan
Benefits of rainfall collection https://permies.com/t/88043/benefits-rainfall-collection
GOOD DEBT/ BAD DEBT https://permies.com/t/179218/mortgages-good-debt-bad-debt

 
Aj Richardson
Posts: 29
5
posted 3 years ago
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Unfortunately that info is outdated, rainwater as it falls is no longer safe to drink anywhere on earth due to forever chemical pollution. Well water may still be safe depending on how well the ground filters the rain.

https://www.businessinsider.com/rainwater-no-longer-safe-to-drink-anywhere-study-forever-chemicals-2022-8
 
R Scott
pollinator
Posts: 4161
Location: Kansas Zone 6a
332
posted 3 years ago
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Not sure where you are in the world, Scott. I’m guessing not America because liters but that is a guess. In America even the galvanized steel tanks have plastic liners. About the only non plastic options are stainless or enamel (glass coated like old roasting pans or the inside of water heaters).

So you are left with DIY. You can do ferocement that only uses a thin coat of cement, or build a roof over a small in ground pond /pool. Or ???

What do you have to work with?  Do you have to worry about freezing?

I had a friend that bought a bunch of old broken dairy milk tanks for scrap prices. Still expensive but a fraction of new.

"You must be the change you want to see in the world." "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." --Mahatma Gandhi
"Preach the Gospel always, and if necessary, use words." --Francis of Assisi.
"Family farms work when the whole family works the farm." -- Adam Klaus

 
Douglas Alpenstock
pollinator
Posts: 5520
Location: Canadian Prairies - Zone 3b
1522
posted 3 years ago
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Aj Richardson wrote:Unfortunately that info is outdated, rainwater as it falls is no longer safe to drink anywhere on earth due to forever chemical pollution. Well water may still be safe depending on how well the ground filters the rain.

https://www.businessinsider.com/rainwater-no-longer-safe-to-drink-anywhere-study-forever-chemicals-2022-8


I saw that piece as well. It's hardly a peer-reviewed scientific paper. I got the impression that it had been sexed up quite a bit, speculating on the impact of a proposed regulatory change in the US. There is a lot of work to do before we know what that looks like in rain catchment tanks around the world.
 
John C Daley
pollinator
Posts: 5756
Location: Bendigo , Australia
521
I like...
plumbing earthworks bee building homestead greening the desert
posted 3 years ago
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
From;https://www.freshwatersystems.com/blogs/blog/how-to-remove-pfas-from-water
- How to remove PFAS from water
PFAS can be removed from water through reverse osmosis, activated carbon filtration, and ion exchange.
- Activated carbon filtration:
Carbon filters contain activated carbon that has an abundance of pores along its surface and infrastructure.
When water runs through the activated carbon, PFAS and other contaminants are captured or altered by a process called adsorption, and clean water emerges on the other side.

John Daley Bendigo, Australia The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan
Benefits of rainfall collection https://permies.com/t/88043/benefits-rainfall-collection
GOOD DEBT/ BAD DEBT https://permies.com/t/179218/mortgages-good-debt-bad-debt

 
Angelika Maier
pollinator
Posts: 1475
Location: Zone 10a, Australia
23
posted 3 years ago
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Rainwater is not safe (they find aluminum and other weird things) but the town water is basically the same it is rainwater collected in a catchment.

Medicinal herbs, kitchen herbs, perennial edibles and berries: https://mountainherbs.net/ grown in the Blue Mountains, Australia

 
John C Daley
pollinator
Posts: 5756
Location: Bendigo , Australia
521
I like...
plumbing earthworks bee building homestead greening the desert
posted 3 years ago
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Angelika, I beg to differ that 'rainwater is not safe'.
In areas rainwater can have impurities and be considered unsafe, but its not a general situation.
It tends to be specific to areas of industrial pollution or agricultural spraying.

John Daley Bendigo, Australia The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan
Benefits of rainfall collection https://permies.com/t/88043/benefits-rainfall-collection
GOOD DEBT/ BAD DEBT https://permies.com/t/179218/mortgages-good-debt-bad-debt

 
Edward Norton
pollinator
Posts: 1495
862
2
I like...
trees bike woodworking
posted 3 years ago
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I’m exploring rainwater storage after John mentioned large storage tanks in a another thread.

I think ferrocement is good option.

The simplest thing to do regarding rain water is get it tested and then act accordingly.

Cargo bikes are cool

 
Mike Haasl
steward
Posts: 15998
Location: Northern WI (zone 4)
5110
8
I like...
hunting trees books food preservation solar woodworking
posted 3 years ago
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
How about a big ass wooden barrel?

I make a Maple Syrup instructional movie! Check it out HERE
SKIP books, get 'em while they're hot!!! Skills to Inherit Property
See me in a movie building a massive wood staircase:Low Tech Lab Movie

 
Aj Richardson
Posts: 29
5
posted 3 years ago
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Is there a guide on making a big ass wooden barrel? I've got tons of wood and not a big budget!
 
Mike Haasl
steward
Posts: 15998
Location: Northern WI (zone 4)
5110
8
I like...
hunting trees books food preservation solar woodworking
posted 3 years ago
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Here's a quick visual of the process.  It's not easy but they used wooden tanks for locomotive water stops in the olden days.  Not sure how "tight" they were...

I make a Maple Syrup instructional movie! Check it out HERE
SKIP books, get 'em while they're hot!!! Skills to Inherit Property
See me in a movie building a massive wood staircase:Low Tech Lab Movie

 
Mike Haasl
steward
Posts: 15998
Location: Northern WI (zone 4)
5110
8
I like...
hunting trees books food preservation solar woodworking
posted 3 years ago
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Maybe better yet:

I make a Maple Syrup instructional movie! Check it out HERE
SKIP books, get 'em while they're hot!!! Skills to Inherit Property
See me in a movie building a massive wood staircase:Low Tech Lab Movie

 
John C Daley
pollinator
Posts: 5756
Location: Bendigo , Australia
521
I like...
plumbing earthworks bee building homestead greening the desert
posted 3 years ago
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The trouble with big wooden barrels, you have to drink a lot of wine to get empty ones!
Ferrocement tanks often crack over time.
Look at Poly tanks, do you own investigation about food safety.

John Daley Bendigo, Australia The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan
Benefits of rainfall collection https://permies.com/t/88043/benefits-rainfall-collection
GOOD DEBT/ BAD DEBT https://permies.com/t/179218/mortgages-good-debt-bad-debt

 
William Bronson
gardener
Posts: 5501
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio,Price Hill 45205
1155
I like...
forest garden trees urban
posted 3 years ago
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I live in Cincinnati Ohio, where we get plenty of rain, but not necessarily when we need it.
My experience as a plumber has put me off of using cpvc for plumbing, but I will use PEX.
Both have some phthalate, but the exposure from PEX is less .
Even if the forever chemicals are not in the rain, microplastics seem to be.

Rather than focus on the possible problems,  let's consider possible solutions.
A charcoal filter is not to hard to make.
I have been filtering some of my city water through a sand and charcoal filter which is made of half a water heater tank.

These tanks are widely available for little or nothing and they are threaded to accept fittings.
By using copper or steel pipe and fittings you could avoid plastic entirely.



Eating Bindweed
Eating Buckwheat Greens
Paul explains why I spend time here,better than I could myself.

 
Scott Lawhead
Posts: 87
23
posted 3 years ago
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
William,

I really like this idea, maybe in conjunction with John’s much loved 25,000 liter tanks. I could see it like this

Using a 25,000 liter poly tank for longer term storage and to accept large rain storm run off,

Then use the water heater tank filter tank to supply filtered water to the house, maybe even use an RO filter for drinking and cooking water if water tests show undesirables.

I like it!
 
I promise I will be the best, most loyal friend ever! All for this tiny ad:
The new purple deck of permaculture playing cards
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/paulwheaton/garden-cards
reply
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!
Similar Threads
More...