How to create a sourdough starter

If you have ever dreamed of baking your own sourdough bread, now is the time to take the first step!

We are going to have a sourdough starter starting party! That means that we are going to take our flour and water and create something bubbling and amazing.

I'm going to post daily and guide you through the process step by step, talking about all things sourdough starter.

We are going to learn how to read the starter, so that you know what it looks like when your starter is hungry, and what to do when your starter is bubbling nicely but doesn't rise properly.

Weird looking liquid on top of the starter? It was bubbling yesterday, but now it's not doing anything?? We have the answers! This is basicly a support group for starting a sourdough starter.
I know we have many people here on Permies who have had sourdough starters for years, and I do invite you to join the party too, giving out tips and tricks where they come in handy!
I really could've needed someone to ask questions when I first started, that's why I'm doing this.

The benefits of baking your own sourdough bread (and other things you can do with it) are multible.

From this other thread I started last week to see if anyone was interested in this:

What is a sourdough starter?

Sourdough starter is basicly a culture of yeasts and bacteria. We want to have a happy little community of yeasts and bacteria living in a jar in our fridge or our kitchen table. When we bake bread with a sourdough starter, we are using the culture to ferment the dough, making the nutrients more available to us. The fermentation process is also responsible for the delicious taste. And of course the yeasts are responsible for the rising of the bread!

Sourdough bread is not actually sour tasting.

Well, it can be. The longer you let the dough ferment, the more sour it will get. The sour taste is not the goal here though.

Do check that thread out, I wrote about a lot of things about sourdough in there!

So, what will you need?

Clean water
Filtered or spring water is preferred. Chlorinated water can be a problem.

Fresh organic flour
It doesn't have to be milled yesterday or last week. Just check that the best before date is not lurking around the corner. The fresher the better.

Jar (or two)
that can hold about 2 cups of water. I think that would be called a quart pint jar?
Bigger one works too, but it makes it harder to see if the starter is rising properly. You're going to need to have some kind of loose lid on it. Cloth with a rubberband works too, but the cloth needs to be really clean and easily washable. (Thanks Pearl for pointing that out!)

A kitcher scale that can measure in grams
Having a kitchen scale makes thing a lot easier!
I can post measurement in volume too if someone needs them, but I highly recommend getting a kitchen scale. I talked about this a bit in the other thread.

Something to stir with
I'm using a wooden chopstick that came with some take-away sushi!

A warm spot for the starter to hang out in
The yeasts like a temperature around 21C-27C (70F-82F).
That's what we are aiming for when we are trying to establish a culture (and when feeding to use it for baking).
My jar is going to be on top of our masonry heater, or in the oven with a container full or hot water. On top of the fridge could work. There are many options.

Time
There will be a part in this process where you need to feed the starter every 12 hours. So for starting, pick a time that you know you'll be able to feed it. (For example 8AM and 8PM)
This is not a game of minutes or hours, and if you only can feed it once a day it's fine! We can work with that.
The whole process will take from a week to two weeks. If your conditions are optimal, you could have a working starter in about a week.
When the starter culture is mature and established it can live in the fridge and only needs to be fed once a week. I usually bake every other day so my starter lives in room temperature and I feed it every day.


I think that's it for now.

Tomorrow, on Sunday, we will start. Get your jars and flour ready... set...

Yay starter party!!

I recommend a wide mouth jar, not a small mouthed one. Problems are much easier to deal with if you can reach in them. Having a duplicate jar is good too, if you have a mess, and need to wash your jar, just put it in the other one.

I have a small wide mouth crock I used for starter for years. It holds maybe 2 cups, has a loose fitting lid that keeps crud out but allows it to breathe. If you use cloth with a rubber band, make use it is very well washed, and easily washable. Bubbled up dried out starter is not easy to wash out of some fabrics.

:D

Hi Pearl,

My wife is the bread person.  But, we always have 2 jars of starter ….just in case.

John F Dean wrote:Hi Pearl,

My wife is the bread person.  But, we always have 2 jars of starter ….just in case.

Actually, that's a good point. I meant a duplicate jar of the right size available so you had the easy ability to wash one, but two jars of starter lets you experiment and have a back up jar of starter if your experiment fails.

I was just going to watch, read along...but I can't resist.

Our son is the baker at the woodfired bakery here in town and they make it a policy to not share their starter...a decades old one.
He will share advice with me though.

Our house is cold and I'm pretty sure there's no place above 50-60F but I seem to remember once it's active that cooler is better for the initial rise and even for proofing?

It's been years since I've had a starter and good wheat berries on hand.

So, I'm in.

Judith, yayyy! Welcome on board! A colder house could make it harder to establish the starter but I think it can be done! Would there be a possibility to make some kind of box or something that has a container with hot water in it to keep the starter warm? A bucket with a lid, bowl of hot water on the bottom, a plate as a lid and the starter jar on top of it? Then wrap the bucket so it’s insulated a bit? Anyone else, ideas?

Pearl, really good points about the jars and cloths as a lid, thank you!

John, duplicate starter ”just in case”, yup! Can be a good thing!

I use two jars, I take the spoonful of starter to a new jar and feed it, and then empty the old jar to the discard jar or to a bowl if I’m making pancake batter or something with it right away and then clean the jar. Cleaning dried up starter is not fun.

Saana Jalimauchi wrote: A colder house could make it harder to establish the starter but I think it can be done! Would there be a possibility to make some kind of box or something that has a container with hot water in it to keep the starter warm? A bucket with a lid, bowl of hot water on the bottom, a plate as a lid and the starter jar on top of it? Then wrap the bucket so it’s insulated a bit? Anyone else, ideas?

I used to keep mine on the water heater, with several pieces of tile below it as themal mass to modulate the heat, and a cover to keep it warm.

And in the engine bay of my VW bus when I was on the road, but that gets weird and complex

Saana Jalimauchi wrote:Judith, yayyy! Welcome on board! A colder house could make it harder to establish the starter but I think it can be done! Would there be a possibility to make some kind of box or something that has a container with hot water in it to keep the starter warm? A bucket with a lid, bowl of hot water on the bottom, a plate as a lid and the starter jar on top of it? Then wrap the bucket so it’s insulated a bit? Anyone else, ideas?

Thanks Saana!
I can do what I do for my tempeh incubation and use hot water to moderate the temp in an old toaster oven  but then I wouldn't be collecting any goodies from the room air...maybe sitting in hot water up to it's neck on the counter and still have some air exchange?
I'll try two jars, one room temp and the other warmed.
Now to grind some flour!

Is anyone using rye? Or wheat only?

Judith Browning wrote:Is anyone using rye? Or wheat only?

I've played this game before with wheat, but I hadn't adapted using it to my lifestyle and it ended up feeling like one chore too many to keep it alive.

Then #2 Son's school buddy went to Norway for a couple of seasons to work on his uncle's fish farm. He brought back some sourdough starter and gave it to me because he said anyone else he knew would kill it. Talk about the guilt trip approach! That was at least 7 years ago, and I haven't managed to kill it, but I came close a couple of times. At the moment, I have back-up because my son is living with his girlfriend and they've started baking bread with it.

So I feed mine rye flour only. I use a different system to what most books say, because I don't want to expose it too much to our local yeasts or they might take over. I store it in the fridge and try to feed it 1/4 cup of rye flour and 1/4 cup of well water every 2 weeks.

When I want to use it, I put it on the counter, feed it a couple of times as above either morning and evening, or over 2 days. I mix up the flours, wheat germ and salt in a separate bowl. I pour 1 cup of the starter mix into a 2 cup measure, top it up with water to dilute it a bit, then mix it into the bowl of flours. It's a no-knead recipe, so I let it rise overnight and them pre-heat my cast iron casserole in the oven, scoop in the dough, pop the lid on, and cook it about 30 min at 425F with the lid on and then 5-10 minutes with the lid off. It works pretty well most of the time.

I second what Pearl said about jars. I use a 1 kg Adam's Peanut butter jar - very straight sides, easy to add and stir the flour right in the jar, and I've got spares so I can swap it out for a clean one when needed. However, the lid is metal, so I don't use it (it will rust). I use a cloth cover held on with a couple of elastic bands.

Jay, Norwegien rye starter, that's so cool! It's also great to hear about different styles of baking with the starter.

I have never had a rye starter. Some day I want to create one though and try to bake traditional Finnish rye bread.


But now.. Now is the time to...

...go!


DAY 1


Take out your jar, kitchen scale, flour and room temperature water.

Measure 50 grams of flour in to the jar.
Add 50 grams of water.
Mix. Little lumpy is fine.
Put the lid on loosely. Just that is hangs out on top of the jar.
Find a cozy spot for your new friend. (21C-27C / 70F-81F)


I measured the 50 grams of flour and it is about 1dl, and the water is little less. So for measurements in volume we could go with

1/4 cup of flour
a little bit less than 1/4 cup of water (aim for a pancake batter consistency)



Next step will happen in 24 hours.

Well, that was easy thank you!

1/4 cup fresh ground soft winter wheat and 1/4 cup filtered water...stirred well with a chopstick in a widemouth pint.  Covered with muslin and a ring.
I've set it in the cupboard above our cook stove so should stay warm enough.

I hope for this part soft wheat will be ok?
It doesn't have as much gluten I know but maybe that won't matter yet.

Woop woop Judith, it has begun!

Yup, you are right, the gluten content doesn’t matter at this point.

As you are using really fresh flour, it has more moisture in it than older flour that has had time to dry, so little bit less water is enough.

Saana Jalimauchi wrote:

As you are using really fresh flour, it has more moisture in it than older flour that has had time to dry, so little bit less water is enough.

So should I adjust now or wait until next addition?
I could add a bit more flour this morning.

If you want you can add a bit of flour but it’s not necessary.

As you get to know your new friends, stirring in the flour will give you an idea whether they would like a tiny bit more water, or a tiny bit less. It takes a while: you don't want them to be hanging out in "warm bone broth", but not "sticky porridge" either. I would say that mine is generally about "pancake batter".

Thank you Jay, well said! I updated the instructions a bit, now it says to aim at pancake batter consistency!

DAY 2


Take your jar of starter. It probably doesn’t look like much. It might have a smell.

Discard about 80% of the starter. Later, when the starter is established we can use the discard to bake things, but at this point there is still a fight going on with the yeasts and bacteria and the starter might smell weird. So at this point, I recommend trashing it.
Do not, ever, pour your starter down the drain.

The idea is to take a small group of yeasts and bacteria, and give them a lot of food to eat so they can grow strong.

Take out 20 grams of starter to a new jar. (Or just take out 80% from the old jar)
Add 50 grams of water. Mix into a milky liquid.
Measure 50 grams of flour in to the jar.
Mix. Mix up and down working some air into it.
Put the lid back on loosely.
Put the starter back to its cozy spot. (21C-27C / 70F-81F)

And the amounts in volume,

about two tablespoons of the starter
1/4 cup of flour
a little bit less than 1/4 cup of water (again, aim for a pancake batter consistency)


Next step will happen in 24 hours.

Ok...apparently my cupboard above the stove is warm enough...it's bubbly this morning!
Took out the two tablespoons and started a clean jar mixing in the water and then flour.

If I wanted to discard the remains I would add to our compost but since we make some sort of soda bread daily it will be added to that.

These more exact measurements are good for me to try as my usual cooking/fermenting style is somewhere between sandor katz, pippi longstockings and what pearl describes

Judith Browning wrote:Ok...apparently my cupboard above the stove is warm enough...it's bubbly this morning!

Yayy, that was fast! I think it might be the super fresh flour you are using that makes it so active already.
Mine had one tiny visible bubble on it.

It’s quite common for the starter to be quite active on around day 3 (2-5) and then it can calm down and stop bubbling for a while. So if that happens, no worries! It will start bubbling again later.

I was surprised!
And yes, it's this years wheat harvest (not ours though) and we grind daily so pretty fresh.
Here's a photo before I began the new jar this morning.

Should I stir this?l
Or ignore til tomorrow?

It’s rising already?! That’s one active start of a starter. Oh my! Awesome.

You can just let it be. Let’s see how it looks like in the morning. (I’m guessing it might show signs of being hungry!)

I started a fresh batch using instructions from the thread, let's see how it goes!

This is great! I’m always up for talking starter and bread so I’ll share what’s worked for me- even though getting a solid starter going took a looong time.
Somehow after a year of on again off again bubbles, I got a goodie by trial and error. The trick was feeding it with organic wheat flour from the grocery.
It goes crazy over it! I’m able to keep about 8-16 oz in my frig for a weekly loaf and a pizza crust. I don’t do discard anymore since I use a 1/2 cup each time I bake. I’ll take it out, feed it, let it sit (or not) overnight then start the baking process in the morning, then feed it a few times over a day or two to build it back up, then back in the frig it goes. It rises and bubbles then goes back to sleep in the frig. I bake with organic white flour then but my bread has the yummy flavor and texture of a little wheat from the starter. I am in love with the sandwich loaf recipe I have! I slather the crust with butter while it’s warm and the crust stays nice & soft and chewable. So good!

Heidi: Recipe for that bread, please!!
Put it here:   Different ways of baking bread with sourdough starter

:D

MK Neal, yay, good to have you here! How's your first starter going? Any bubbles? Smells? Liquids on top? You could try taking a spoonful of the starter and feeding it the same way as we are doing here. It would be fun to see how it reacts!


Heidi! Welcome, welcome, I'm glad you are here!

I had trouble with my first starter too, for over a month. Then I took it with me to visit the inlaws and BOOM! They had a bit warmer room temperature, and so I learned to find a warmer spot for the starter in our house.

Thank you for sharing your routine with your starter! We all have our own lives and there is a way to fit a sourdough starter in most of the situations. It's great to hear about different ways of taking care of them, maybe that way someone who has been thinking that they could not keep up with it actually wants to try it!

Oh and your sandwich loaf recipe.. Yes, please post it to the other thread! I tried baking a sandwich loaf a few times but it never was quite right. It came out too dense or too sour.

DAY 3


How's the starter looking? Bubbling yet? It might be quite active at this point, and then calm down again. No worries if it does that!

You will never guess the next step...


Take out 20 grams of starter to a new jar. (Or just take out 80% from the old jar)
Add 50 grams of water. Mix into a milky liquid.
Measure 50 grams of flour in to the jar.
Mix. Mix up and down working some air into it.
Put the lid back on loosely.
Put the starter back to its cozy spot. (21C-27C / 70F-81F)

And the amounts in volume,

about two tablespoons of the starter
1/4 cup of flour
a little bit less than 1/4 cup of water (again, aim for a pancake batter consistency)

Oh my. Looks like a repeat. It is. It will be the same for a few days. If weird things start to happen, please do post here so we can all learn from the situation!
(I'm hoping there are some people who are doing this with us but not posting yet..)

Next step will happen in 24 hours.


Judith, how is your starter looking at the moment? Has it come down? Is there liquid on top or a weird smell?

Saana,
It did go down some overnight but there are still bubbles...no weird smell, kind of sweet smelling if anything?  And no liquid on top....actually sort of dry on top.

So far so good!

Sounds really good! Just feed it the same way. You could keep an eye on it and make a note on how many hours it takes for it to peak.

It’s dry on top because the cloth lets it breathe so much.. When I actually bake, I use a moist kitchen towel on top of the bowl to keep the dough from drying.. Maybe that could work here too? Wetting the cloth? Or could you think of a some kind of loose lid you could use?

It’s not a major problem that it’s drying on top, but it would make it easier to read if it didn’t.

First 24 hr, only a few bubbles. No odd smells or colors. My kitchen was not very warm.

For the second 24 hr, I added 1/2 whole wheat flour.  We'll see how that goes.

Thank you for this step by step sourdough starter (with pictures to boot), and help from others, that I can understand. I so want to try !
I miss eating rye bread with (lots!) of caraway seeds.
Any attempts  on my part trying to make sourdough starter were total flops. Then, after the jar "exploded" and the mess... Well.. I gave it a rest. LOL

Thank you for posting this! I won’t be joining the party in real time, but will be following and will make my starter later. What perfect timing as temps drop so we can make baked bread with a hearty winter stew. The clear instructions and comments are helpful and I’m confident to give it a try.

Mk, looking good! The whole grain might give it a nice boost.


Ela, welcome to our party! I'm glad you find this thread useful.
Exploding sourdough starter jar sounds rough.. Do try again with us! If any questions come up we are here to help.

DAY 4


If your starter was bubbling nicely yesterday, now it might be looking a bit sad. Just keep feeding it the same way!

Yup, the next step is...


Take out 20 grams of starter to a new jar. (Or just take out 80% from the old jar)
Add 50 grams of water. Mix into a milky liquid.
Measure 50 grams of flour in to the jar.
Mix. Mix up and down working some air into it.
Put the lid back on loosely.
Put the starter back to its cozy spot. (21C-27C / 70F-81F)

And the amounts in volume,

about two tablespoons of the starter
1/4 cup of flour
a little bit less than 1/4 cup of water (again, aim for a pancake batter consistency)


Soon we will change the routine a bit. Once it starts bubbling again after being silent for a couple of days, we will try feeding it twice a day. This usually happens somewhere around day 6.

Next step will happen in 24 hours.


Judith, what's up? Still bubbling?

B, you're welcome! When you start your sourdough starter project it would be nice to hear how it goes! And of course, if any questions come up - do ask!

I fed mine a little early this morning as we were going on a hike.
It did not bubble much yesterday...nothing near the day before.

When I stirred it this morning there were bubbles though.

Smells sweet and no liquid on top.

Can you make sourdough bread with gluten free flour?

Judith, sounds good!

Brenda, yes you can bake gluten free sourdough bread! The thing in sourdough is the fermentation of the dough. Gluten free sourdough bread has to be baked in a loaf pan as the gluten is basicly the thing that makes the bread hold it’s shape.

Edit: To make it clearer, you have to create the starter with gluten free flour too to make sure the bread is 100% gluten free. I don’t have any experience in this but I would say that all the same principles apply; just use fresh gluten free flour and clean water.
It would be fun to see how it goes, if you want to try?

Brenda Culp wrote:Can you make sourdough bread with gluten free flour?

My guess is it would depend on what exactly is in your flour mix. They are all different, and I'd check with the people who made it for recipes using their mix. Probably recipes on their website if you can, seems to me they'd be advertising it if you can.

Brenda Culp wrote:Can you make sourdough bread with gluten free flour?

Hi, Brenda!! There's a whole thread full of information and ideas on gluten free sourdough here, that might help with that:
https://permies.com/t/190709/Gluten-Free-Sourdough#1572079