It's the crazy lady who wants to live in a greenhouse again! More ideas and questions inside.

I hope it's ok to make a new post, i commented this under my original post yesterday and i don't think people see it. Here is a link to my original post: https://permies.com/t/238722/Planning-build-tiny-house-commercial#2212827

Hello all that took the time to reply to my post! And all of you just reading it now of course.

It was amazing to have other brains working on it since mine is going 24/7 and not making much progress. You have sent me down some very very interesting rabbit holes and i'm humbled by all the creativity and knowledge i encounter.

I have a few more ideas to run by you and some questions also.

A lot was said about privacy because i'm not suppose to live there but it really isn't that much of a big deal, even when it's all lit up. I checked on site last sunday and it's definitely not visible from the road and that road is really not busy. I asked my Dad about it and he says it's really not a concern and if he's not concerned then there's really nothing to worry about.

I learned from my Dad that the soil is mostly rocks and sand topped with 12-24 inches of good soil. As i plan to use the excavated soil as a insulated slab, is it possible that it will be too much trouble because of the rocks and sand? Sand is not a good mass and won't rocks shift and possibly cause my top layer of cob(?) to crack? I've been looking at alternatives for cob because if i can't find clay locally that won't be an option but that still seems like the best option at the moment to make a mass floor that will be heated by the sun and probably a water radiant system too.

All of you who said insulating the north (at least) side were correct. I didn't want it to be true but it is. As i'm still focused on using a standard 24' by 48' by 16' greenhouse kit, i'm looking for ways to insulate the north wall in a non-permanent way. I thought about fabricating panels that would have insulation facing the outside and a reflective surface on the inside. I'm thinking of a lightweight frame made from aluminium or just light timber like cedar. The panels would be 6' wide and about 13' long and would be suspended between the arches on an angle leaning the reflective surface towards the floor during winter and then swung up inbetween the arches so the the reflective surface faces up during summer to help with overheating. Again, my desire is to have a space that doesn't freeze over winter but not to heat it like a house. These panels and the insulated heated earth slab might not be enough still but i feel like that would get me much closer. I'm waiting on an answer from the greenhouse manufacturer about it being solid enough to pile up snow quite high on the north side. I don't think he'll like that idea but i'm hoping it's structually doable.

I'm now trying to estimate my water consumption to be bale to size the tanks i would need to store rainwater as it will be my only source. I'm very grateful for all the info i found here about using grey water twice, like shower to washer. The bit that is concerning is that it seems a pump is required for everything! I would like to use gravity as much as possible but i don't know how practical it would be. I thought i could build the bath/shower combo high up on a platform, over storage or something, and then let it drain directly into the washing machine but for the rest of the water system i'm not sure i can calculate the impact putting the water as high as possible would have on the size of pump i would need to feed the sink and shower.

All right, i'll stop for now because that's already a lot! Going back to reading the wonderful book i purchased: The rocket mass heater builder's guide!

Thanks, stay safe.

Looking at the pictures you posted, here's a crazy idea for winter insulation - make a bunch of wire cages, fill them with dry leaves, and stack them against the north wall and the north sides of the east and west walls. I've heard of doing similar around composts and raised beds, but it usually involved plastic bags and from my experience, that always ended badly - filthy plastic that ends up in the landfill. The best insulation would be on the inside of the glass (according to my engineering kid), but the leaves on the outside would help protect against wind-chill.

Your inside panel plan sounds good, as it's also making the heated area a bit smaller in the winter. Just make sure you're comfortable woman-handling a 13 foot length safely without hitting and damaging anything.  Granted, I tend to worry about such things, because I'm on the small, light side. Consider integrated handles for secure grip for example.

The water thing is pretty tough - there are people in the world where water is short that get by on far less than we Canadians take for granted. Pumps can use a fair bit of electricity, which could be short in the winter. I'd suggest you research bicycle powered pumps, as I'm sure I read about a system that was quite efficient, and simple enough to be built in disadvantaged places. I am really aware that the higher the reservoir, the more water pressure. I had rainwater stored in barrels for my veggie garden, but the water pressure was so low, it just wasn't worth my effort to wait for the watering can to fill.

You talk about an insulated slab?  Is that under the living space only, or the entire greenhouse?  Or the living space and part of the greenhouse?  If I were in your shoes I would build the greenhouse on posts(no slab) and I would build the living space on skids with an insulated floor(also no slab)

I think your idea of insulated panels that can change direction may be a good idea.  But when building things, weight adds up faster than expected.  I would be concerned that such panels would weigh more than the greenhouse can support.  And often things designed and built to move and swing and hinge work well the first couple times but they start to sag, wear and the mechanisms get dirty and they stop working so nice.  And insulation only works it it is sealing a space off entirely, if the heat can go around or over the insulation to get to the other side the insulation is way less effective than if it is sealed well to stop air movement.

For your water pumping, I would look into getting 12 volt pumps salvaged from campers.  Run them off solar and battery.   Another option is to use less water and transfer it from use to use with buckets.  Nothing will reduce your water use like having to move it all by hand.

Is there a reason you are set on retrofitting a greenhouse kit that is designed as a season extender?  Instead of building a passive thermal greenhouse from the ground up?

I like the idea of reflective/insulated panels, but as drawn, they would not be able to swing from winter to summer positions, or even be carried from place to place without flipping them over as well. That would risk hitting any object in the greenhouse and damaging it or the panel. Changing the plan to multiple 6' x 6' panels or something similar might be workable. As mentioned, for winter insulation you would want all the joints between panels sealed.

Insulation under the floor would be useful if you plan to keep the interior above 50F or so all winter; otherwise, insulation would just prevent geothermal energy from keeping the space above freezing. I could see having a section of floor insulated and with heating tubes in it, particularly if there was one part you wanted as living space.

Jay Angler wrote:Looking at the pictures you posted, here's a crazy idea for winter insulation - make a bunch of wire cages, fill them with dry leaves, and stack them against the north wall and the north sides of the east and west walls. I've heard of doing similar around composts and raised beds, but it usually involved plastic bags and from my experience, that always ended badly - filthy plastic that ends up in the landfill. The best insulation would be on the inside of the glass (according to my engineering kid), but the leaves on the outside would help protect against wind-chill.

Your inside panel plan sounds good, as it's also making the heated area a bit smaller in the winter. Just make sure you're comfortable woman-handling a 13 foot length safely without hitting and damaging anything.  Granted, I tend to worry about such things, because I'm on the small, light side. Consider integrated handles for secure grip for example.

I love the idea of the wire cages filled with leaves! It made me think i could make a low strawbale wall following the north side and have my plumbing go through them to protect them from the potential frost. Great idea about the handles on the panels. And yes, i will need help for a few tasks during the year, especially around the season changes. I can count on local friends and family for help, that won't be a problem. Thanks Jay!

J Hillman wrote:You talk about an insulated slab?  Is that under the living space only, or the entire greenhouse?  Or the living space and part of the greenhouse?  If I were in your shoes I would build the greenhouse on posts(no slab) and I would build the living space on skids with an insulated floor(also no slab)

I think your idea of insulated panels that can change direction may be a good idea.  But when building things, weight adds up faster than expected.  I would be concerned that such panels would weigh more than the greenhouse can support.  And often things designed and built to move and swing and hinge work well the first couple times but they start to sag, wear and the mechanisms get dirty and they stop working so nice.  And insulation only works it it is sealing a space off entirely, if the heat can go around or over the insulation to get to the other side the insulation is way less effective than if it is sealed well to stop air movement.

For your water pumping, I would look into getting 12 volt pumps salvaged from campers.  Run them off solar and battery.   Another option is to use less water and transfer it from use to use with buckets.  Nothing will reduce your water use like having to move it all by hand.

Is there a reason you are set on retrofitting a greenhouse kit that is designed as a season extender?  Instead of building a passive thermal greenhouse from the ground up?

Hi J, thank you for your answer!

Loads of reasons why i want to use a kit instead of building: budget wise i can't really afford labor on top of the price of materials and labor is hard to find here, easier to find volunteers amongst my friends to come help for a few hours. I want to leave the land as untouched as possible if i ever decide to move and be able to take my greenhouse with me, not sure i would get the permit if i plan a build but i know for sure i would for a kit greenhouse, having a space protected from the elements quickly means i can then take the time to work on all the other systems i need to implement (solar, rain catchment, etc).

The whole space under the greenhouse would have an insulated earth slab but probably just some it would be heated with radiant heat. I'm researching putting a Jean Pain style compost pile inside de the greenhouse that would warm water for radiant heated slab and give off some heat through the air as well. I'm worried about it giving off too much moisture in the air. Lots of passive heat storage options out there, still looking for the right combination. I agree that the panels might be too heavy, it's one of the many many questions i've sent to the manufacturer. And i would have to seal the gaps between them for sure, i thought maybe some rubber strips along the sides that overlap inbetween the panels and at the top to keep the cold air behind them from mixing too much with the warm air in the rest of the space. I'm also looking at building a RMH since i'll be there full time and can feed it regularly.

I have a galvanized steel trailer on site that was an RV. I'm thinking i could build on that, it was the plan originally to build a tiny house on it.

Glenn Herbert wrote:I like the idea of reflective/insulated panels, but as drawn, they would not be able to swing from winter to summer positions, or even be carried from place to place without flipping them over as well. That would risk hitting any object in the greenhouse and damaging it or the panel. Changing the plan to multiple 6' x 6' panels or something similar might be workable. As mentioned, for winter insulation you would want all the joints between panels sealed.

Insulation under the floor would be useful if you plan to keep the interior above 50F or so all winter; otherwise, insulation would just prevent geothermal energy from keeping the space above freezing. I could see having a section of floor insulated and with heating tubes in it, particularly if there was one part you wanted as living space.

Hi Glenn, thank you for your input!

I don't understand what you mean about the insulated slab preventing geothermal energy heating the space. My idea is to insulate all four sides about 2-3 feet down and the whole surface and then fill it up again with earth and compact it so it becomes a passive solar heated slab. Would that not work?

When you said insulated slab, I thought you meant insulated on the bottom. Yes, insulating all around the sides will work fine. You will still lose some heat downward if the space or floor is kept much above ground temperature, but if the ground is largely sandy without groundwater near the surface, it will not lose heat fast. And if the space averages lower than ground temperature in winter, you will have a net gain from the earth.

you will need a lot of wood chips
is the plan to have this ready for next fall?
how many tree service companies are nearby and is it close enough that they would want to drop the chips off there?
might be good to spread a foot or two of chips around the exterior of the greenhouse to help slow the cold going through the ground into the greenhouse
it would be many truckloads of chips

An alternative to making 13' long reflective/insulated panels that get relocated for summer would be to put fixed panels from the floor to 5-6' high, then movable ones above that. Shorter movable panels could pivot from the peak of the roof without hitting the ground. Having the north wall solid with reflective surface would still allow plenty of summer sunlight for growing. If you want more summer reflective shading, that could be done with very light flexible material.

Glenn Herbert wrote:When you said insulated slab, I thought you meant insulated on the bottom. Yes, insulating all around the sides will work fine. You will still lose some heat downward if the space or floor is kept much above ground temperature, but if the ground is largely sandy without groundwater near the surface, it will not lose heat fast. And if the space averages lower than ground temperature in winter, you will have a net gain from the earth.

Thank you Glenn! I'm relieved, i thought i had the whole concept wrong haha. Do you mean the uninsulated ground temperature around the greenhouse and under my "slab"? Yes that ground will freeze about 4 feet down and i hope to keep the air and slab inside the greenhouse above freezing (if only by a degree).

M. Phelps wrote:you will need a lot of wood chips
is the plan to have this ready for next fall?
how many tree service companies are nearby and is it close enough that they would want to drop the chips off there?
might be good to spread a foot or two of chips around the exterior of the greenhouse to help slow the cold going through the ground into the greenhouse
it would be many truckloads of chips

Hi M, thank you for your answer!
We have about 16 acres of land and i'd say about half is forest. A lot of trees fall by themselves every year, partly because we have not dedicated time and ressources to maintain it. I was thinking the first year i would hire a mobile tree service cie that would come and clear some of the stuff i can use for my pile. Maybe shred the wood directly on a tarp and then gather the four corners and drag it close to my site, empty it, go back again. I was thinking about doing it in august-september maybe so that it has time to get soaked from the fall rains and then in october arrange it into the Jean Pain mound with the coils and everything. These services are readily available here, as is the material if i decide it's too much work to do it on site. Some places even give that stuff away because they have too much. If the on site thing works well, i would consider investing in a small wood chipper and do it myself (with help) the following years. If it turns out i have to buy the material every year, i don't think it would be financially viable. I would have to think of something else.

Glenn Herbert wrote:An alternative to making 13' long reflective/insulated panels that get relocated for summer would be to put fixed panels from the floor to 5-6' high, then movable ones above that. Shorter movable panels could pivot from the peak of the roof without hitting the ground. Having the north wall solid with reflective surface would still allow plenty of summer sunlight for growing. If you want more summer reflective shading, that could be done with very light flexible material.

That's a good idea, thank you again!

A large compost pile inside your greenhouse to heat it will produce CO2 and methane.  Depending on how fast it breaks down and how vented your greenhouse is it could produce the gas quick enough to be dangerous,

J Hillman wrote:A large compost pile inside your greenhouse to heat it will produce CO2 and methane.  Depending on how fast it breaks down and how vented your greenhouse is it could produce the gas quick enough to be dangerous,

Thanks J.!

That’s what I gathered from my further readings. Plus I think the pile would take too much space.

Maybe you could make a solid north wall for the greenhouse and heap the compost pile against that. You would get some warmth from it and also eliminate heat loss from that section of wall. The heating circuit would be as short as it can possibly be.

I wasn't sure what you meant with Harnois green house so I went here:
https://www.harnois.com/
Essentially, it is a conventional green house, with metal frame and plastic cover. Are you planning insulation, at least up the vertical walls? Theirs looked really big, so you would have to add a lot of compost to warm it, wouldn't you? Or are you planning a smaller structure?
I also looked at the heat with compost method "Jean Pain". That's pretty good too.
https://www.google.com/search?q=chauffage+m%C3%A9thode+jean+pain&rlz=1C1ONGR_enUS1080US1081&oq=methode+Jean+Pain&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqCAgDEAAYFhgeMgYIABBFGDkyCggBEAAYChgWGB4yCAgCEAAYFhgeMggIAxAAGBYYHjIICAQQABgWGB4yCAgFEAAYFhgeMg0IBhAAGIYDGIAEGIoFMg0IBxAAGIYDGIAEGIoFMg0ICBAAGIYDGIAEGIoFMg0ICRAAGIYDGIAEGIoF0gEKMTQ4ODRqMGoxNagCALACAA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:74012ebd,vid:RCd3D3fa_ek,st:0
If you want to make a house, though, you will have to lose some light by adding some kind of insulation? I assume you have looked at the RMH method for heating?
It sure is a big project, so good luck and keep telling us about it.

might be good to spread a foot or two of chips around the exterior of the greenhouse to help slow the cold going through the ground into the greenhouse
it would be many truckloads of chips

Good point, M.Phelps!...Wood chips (especially the delivered for free kind) have a wide range of productive uses. Definitely, something to consider.

Straw bales work. I spent years 5-18 growing up in an uninsulated house in central Wisconsin.  Every fall my father and brothers would put fresh tar paper around the base of the house to the height of 3 bales.  Then stack the bales against the house.  We were always cold so I thought it was stupid.
One year my father got sick for several months in the fall and didn't get to it until after Christmas.  I was never so cold in my life.  We children fought to stand next to the space heaters.  When my father recovered and the bales got placed, I nearly kissed every bale.  (I did kiss my dad repeatedly.)
Never again did this wise butt ever question the efficacy of those bales.  Also they were great in the garden after year of rotting next to it.  Composting? The word was not in usage back then.
Good luck with greenhouse house.  Sounds dreamy.

Here is a project wit a simlar goal from 9 years ago.   The Camp   built around a camper with RNH in front on the south side. In Northern Maine so comparable weather.
Possible  water and insulation solution is a rain catchment roof on the north side overlapping the north slope of the greenhouse.  Would provide space for water tanks and compost or insulation.  Car port for vehicle and storage.

Cécile Stelzer Johnson wrote:I wasn't sure what you meant with Harnois green house so I went here:
https://www.harnois.com/
Essentially, it is a conventional green house, with metal frame and plastic cover. Are you planning insulation, at least up the vertical walls? Theirs looked really big, so you would have to add a lot of compost to warm it, wouldn't you? Or are you planning a smaller structure?
I also looked at the heat with compost method "Jean Pain". That's pretty good too.

If you want to make a house, though, you will have to lose some light by adding some kind of insulation? I assume you have looked at the RMH method for heating?
It sure is a big project, so good luck and keep telling us about it.

Thank you Cécile for your answer.

Yes the greenhouse i'm looking at is a 25' by 50' polycarbonate covered structure. The living quarters will be a separate structure, like a tiny house, built inside the greenhouse and fully insulated. The rest of the space would serve as a workshop and to grow some veggies/fruits/plants and just to have a place to be that's not directly in the elements. I'm looking to keep it above freezing with an insulated earth slab heated with the compost method. The RMH build would be to provide enough heat to be able to work there during the day but i don't need to get it as warm as the living space.

Glenn Herbert wrote:Maybe you could make a solid north wall for the greenhouse and heap the compost pile against that. You would get some warmth from it and also eliminate heat loss from that section of wall. The heating circuit would be as short as it can possibly be.

Thanks Glenn,

I'm leaning more and more towards building a semi-permanent north wall but inside the greenhouse, something like a wooden wall structure with hay bales stacked up on the warm side. If i had the possibility of building a passive solar greenhouse i would but i've looked at costs and it's just not doable. The compost pile and the pipes circulating water inside the slab would be covered with hay bales to insulate it but also let air through.

If you want to insulate the north side of the greenhouse for the winter, you could just stack hay bales along the wall. Maybe posts every several feet would help to stabilize the stack without impeding access to place the bales or use the space in other seasons. The bales would surely be useful after winter for mulch and enriching garden soil.

For that matter, as long as the structure is rot-resistant, you could stack bales or something similar along the north wall with a support wall/frame, and similarly stack something insulative outside which would be supported by the bales inside. Don't try to use the greenhouse frame as a retaining wall, just bury it in a north-facing mound. I bet if the inside was sloped like a hugelculture mound, you could grow lots of food on it for a long season.

Marie Gen wrote:

Glenn Herbert wrote:Maybe you could make a solid north wall for the greenhouse and heap the compost pile against that. You would get some warmth from it and also eliminate heat loss from that section of wall. The heating circuit would be as short as it can possibly be.

Thanks Glenn,

I'm leaning more and more towards building a semi-permanent north wall but inside the greenhouse, something like a wooden wall structure with hay bales stacked up on the warm side. If i had the possibility of building a passive solar greenhouse i would but i've looked at costs and it's just not doable. The compost pile and the pipes circulating water inside the slab would be covered with hay bales to insulate it but also let air through.

I completely understand your reasoning for wanting to go with a kit.  But if you are good at scrounging and able to do physical labor you could build a earth shelter passive solar greenhouse for around $3000.

You could build the north, east and west walls & the roof using this method
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzPwTBQfPkg&t=69s

Around here (northern Wisconsin) I can get a semi load of white oak 8 foot firewood logs averaging about 6-8 inches in diameter delivered for $1200.  White oak is rot resistant.  That can be used for the posts, walls and roof.  You could insulate outside of that with Styrofoam or straw bales.

Then water proof it with used rubber roof material.  If you call commercial roofing companies you may be able to get it for free, but you should be able to get it for about 15 cents a square foot.  Then bank it up with dirt.

While talking to the roofing companies ask if they ever re slope flat roofs.  And if they do ask if you can buy the old styrofoam and screws.  Most likely they will already be selling the used foam at a premium price but the screws may be dirt cheap or free.(I bought 32,000 of them this summer for $100,  Most are 9 to 12 inches long and would work very good for attaching the log walls to the log posts).


The south wall could simply be framed with 2x4's and covered with two layers of poly film.  One on the inside and one on the outside.

That would give you a greenhouse that stays above freezing all winter with on added heat, and will stay reasonably cool(because it is shaded by the roof and overhang) most of the summer.

Check out how this greenhouse was built.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAWBnGDss8k&t=11s
He is from Canada and it appears to work for him.  You wouldn't necessary need to go as big.

Bonjour from a fellow who also happens to be a Quebecer.
I thought Jay's suggestion about wire cages was a good one. Alternatively, rather than leaves, which may be abundant, yet time-consuming to collect, you might want to consider an ancient Roman idea; the Gabion wall.
Essentially a wire cage, filled with a natural resource that is in great abundance on the Canadian Shield: ROCKS!
You would have the benefit of a strong windbreak as well as the added benefit of a thermal mass.
Anyway, it's an idea.
Bonne chance.

J Hillman wrote:

I completely understand your reasoning for wanting to go with a kit.  But if you are good at scrounging and able to do physical labor you could build a earth shelter passive solar greenhouse for around $3000.

You could build the north, east and west walls & the roof using this method
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzPwTBQfPkg&t=69s

Check out how this greenhouse was built.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAWBnGDss8k&t=11s
He is from Canada and it appears to work for him.  You wouldn't necessary need to go as big.

Thanks J.

Turns out i had already watched both of these videos and although i do think they are great ideas, i'm pretty sure i couldn't get a permit to build either. I'm handy and good at finding reusable materials but building those is on another level, just thinking about the equipment i'd need would send the prices soaring. I looked up white oak out of curiosity and it doesn't grow here. I could have it built but that would drive the costs also. And these are permanent and i couldn't easily disassemble them easily. I love all the creativity out there and people sharing it, i'm just very aware of my limitations and don't want to be overly optimistic about what i can achieve.

J A Snow wrote:Bonjour from a fellow who also happens to be a Quebecer.
I thought Jay's suggestion about wire cages was a good one. Alternatively, rather than leaves, which may be abundant, yet time-consuming to collect, you might want to consider an ancient Roman idea; the Gabion wall.
Essentially a wire cage, filled with a natural resource that is in great abundance on the Canadian Shield: ROCKS!
You would have the benefit of a strong windbreak as well as the added benefit of a thermal mass.
Anyway, it's an idea.
Bonne chance.

Merci!

Yeah, i think once i dig out the area under the greenhouse i might have a lot of rocks to reuse as mass. Good thing too because i love rocks! Filling the wire cages with rocks would also mean less maintenance because any organic material like leaves or straw would have to be replaced every year.

Glenn Herbert wrote:If you want to insulate the north side of the greenhouse for the winter, you could just stack hay bales along the wall. Maybe posts every several feet would help to stabilize the stack without impeding access to place the bales or use the space in other seasons. The bales would surely be useful after winter for mulch and enriching garden soil.

For that matter, as long as the structure is rot-resistant, you could stack bales or something similar along the north wall with a support wall/frame, and similarly stack something insulative outside which would be supported by the bales inside. Don't try to use the greenhouse frame as a retaining wall, just bury it in a north-facing mound. I bet if the inside was sloped like a hugelculture mound, you could grow lots of food on it for a long season.

I think that's the best option so far! I asked the manufacturer about piling up snow on the outside to insulate a bit and he says i can leave a 2' wide by 4' tall bank leaning on the structure from the outside, which sounds pretty good. And then inside build up a wall structure, self-supporting cage-like and stuff it with straw bales. Being surrounded by farmland, straw shouldn't be that hard to come by, unless we get an atrociously dry summer like we did a few years ago...
I looked up hugelkultur and that is so cool! I'm not sure what and if i'll be growing things myself, there are lots of small producers around so i thought maybe i could exchange my compost for veggies instead of growing.

Marla Cowden wrote:Straw bales work. I spent years 5-18 growing up in an uninsulated house in central Wisconsin.  Every fall my father and brothers would put fresh tar paper around the base of the house to the height of 3 bales.  Then stack the bales against the house.  We were always cold so I thought it was stupid.
One year my father got sick for several months in the fall and didn't get to it until after Christmas.  I was never so cold in my life.  We children fought to stand next to the space heaters.  When my father recovered and the bales got placed, I nearly kissed every bale.  (I did kiss my dad repeatedly.)
Never again did this wise butt ever question the efficacy of those bales.  Also they were great in the garden after year of rotting next to it.  Composting? The word was not in usage back then.
Good luck with greenhouse house.  Sounds dreamy.

Thanks Marla! I hope you have warm and dry winters now!

I think a straw bale wall could work.  You should check the price in your area.  A 50foot wall 6 foot tall will take about 70 of them.  They used to be $2 here before covid, now $5 is a real common price for them.

If I was stacking a wall of straw bales taller than 3 or 4 feet I would want some way to brace them so the entire wall doesn't fall down.   That could be things like: rebar spiked through them and into the ground or the row below, tying the top row to the greenhouse above, or sticks leaning into them from the ground.

Supporting local small producers is important, but nothing beats being able to step outside and pick greens for your salad ten minutes before you eat. Swiss chard was alive and pickable into January outdoors in central New York this winter.

The greenhouse specs mention a 6' or 7' high roll-up opening at the bottom of the sidewalls. Rolling this up as high as desired, placing strawbales leaning toward the wall inside and wood chips piled outside to support them, then unrolling the wall material to cover the chip pile, would get good closure, insulation, compost for heating, and a surface for planting some veggies without taking up lots of floor space.

Glenn Herbert wrote:Supporting local small producers is important, but nothing beats being able to step outside and pick greens for your salad ten minutes before you eat. Swiss chard was alive and pickable into January outdoors in central New York this winter.

Absolutely! I will for sure have some greens growing year long. I’m in a small city apartment now and make sprouts for my daily dose of fresh green. Can’t wait to have fresh herbs, maybe sticking them in the straw bales? I’m sure I’ll end up trying to grow lots in the greenhouse but probably not outside since all the fields have been left unkept for over 20 years. Maybe if my compost heating turns out well and I do it every year I could build heaps for a proper garden.  

It’s amazing to get input from you Glenn and all these passionate people. Many thanks.

Have you looked at the Solviva model? She (Anna Edey) started with a greenhouse integrated with her home, but then went on to develop/build/use a year-round greenhouse that had a lot of built-in mass -- but also featured a partitioned-off zone at the rear/north where she kept chickens and rabbits. Their deep bedding apparently contributed to the warming/buffering function...just a thought...

Lots of good ideas here.  I like the straw and leaves as temporary winter insulation...reminds me of wigwams, winterized with an inner hut, surrounded by an outer hut, the space in between stuffed with leaves to stay cozy.

Starwbale structures dont have to be as complicated as people make it out, especially if you are thinking temporary and cheap.  I built one with no foundation whatsoever in AZ more than 20 years ago and its still standing.   If I were doing it again I might put down some tarpaper, or maybe dirtbags.  But bales are rather heavy and I am one oldish female with a sore back so likely wont do that one again.  Labor is always a factor, I favor easy more and more as I get older.  

If you have lots of long thin trees, you can use those and make a tipi structure or sami hut (a bit more structured with a center openable smoke ring), and cover with plastic, inner and outer layer, insulate the north side with flexible insulation like reflectix or prodex...easily removed and rolled up or repositioned for summer.  

Since tipis are classified as "tents" perhaps it would not require permit?  Certainly would be portable.

I am considering doing this myself in WI, as a cheap and fast greenhouse that I can quickly "disappear" if code people get on my case.    I see no reason why one couldnt live in one as well as grow plants?   Altho I am equally tempted to throw up a pallet-walled straw-stuffed yurt and cover with mud, top roof with plastic, grow a plant or two and call it a "greenhouse."  

Another portable and very affordable option for greenhouse frame is the starplate dome kit, these are easily covered with anything fabric-like, such as greenhouse plastic, or regular fabric.   Or rigid materials.  Whatever you want really.  The frame can be bolted together by 1 person in two hours if you have predrilled the holes with included templates.   The connectors are $110 and then you need 25 2x4's, roughly 13 foot diameter.  Can connect multiples together in various ways.  Tall enough for a small sleep loft.   Should be easily permittable as a greenhouse, they are engineered structures.   Can do a small one inside a large one and stuff the gap with leaves or straw or ??  if massive insulation desired...   considerably extending the eave struts adds outside storage options or makes an outer ring that be greenhouse space as well.  

The starplate dome or tipi is probably the easiest, fastest and cheapest way to get a sturdy littly greenhouse in very little time with minimal labor. Either can be disassembled and moved quickly if you dont cover it with rigid materials.

On insulating the north side of the structure... I wonder if you could use some sort of passive solar system using a dark-colored exterior over the top of something that will hold and evenly distribute heat. Just a thought off the top of my head.

j

I would like to cover the thoughts on heating this time.  If you go with the tiny house built on the trailer frame and want to use a rocket mass heater this is my recommendation.  Make it a pebble style mass that would fit tight under the end of the trailer to the axle, perhaps dug down some if the  clearance is to low.  With a cold air return from the far end of the house air can circulate through the pebles and come up through a grating in the floor adding to the radiant heating of the floor.  For warming the ground pipes can come down from the high point at each end of the greenhouse and travel under the ground to the burn portion of the RMH and with a heat shield surrounding the  barrel the heated air between the shield and the barrel would pump the air from the top of the greenhouse taking the warm air that would radiate the heat out of the roof down into the ground where you want the warmth. Extra solar gain during the winter is also stored.  This passively operating system is the best i can come up with that allows you to pull the trailer away and completely disassemble the the heating system and move it to a new location.  It also avoids the suggested slab heated with circulated liquid which is a big expense and mechanical system to maintain and power.  

My meditation on this has moved me to write an article on why is a rocket mass heater a permaculture tool in the RMH forum.  See you there.

There's a very thorough webinar on passive solar greenhouse design that just went down on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/live/8bVEYObFMds