Garden on this concrete, or remove all/some?

What would you do if you were me? ...

I just moved into a home in a Mediterranean climate (Portugal). I would like to grow sun-loving fruit trees and vines, as well as grow a hedge along the road-side wall of my property. But, the previous owners put poured concrete all over the flattest and sunniest (south-west facing) part of the land (and did a high quality job of it too!). It's approx. 400m2 (4,300 sq ft) of pavement. I also know that the quality of the soil beneath the concrete isn't very good.

If cost ($) were not a consideration, would you:
A.  work with what's here and put in a bunch of container plants/garden?
B. Remove sections of the concrete? (e.g., make a few holes for trees and the area along the wall to grow a hedge)?
C. Remove all the concrete?
D. Some other idea?

Thanks in advance for your advice and thoughts!

Hey Lina, welcome to Permies.
I think my answer would have more to do with what I planned to do with the property (i.e. do i want to leave the cement intact).
also if you're just starting out you may want to experiment with movable beds until you see what your environment is like. I'd personally go for large containers using whatever i have access to and dirt brought in from outside, and then later consider more permanent options like breaking the concrete in parts for trees to get deeper roots down.

Hi Lina,

My thoughts are that the best option is to get any plant, and especially trees, into the soil so that their roots can dig deep, interact with nutrients in deeper soil and especially organisms within the soil.  Therefore about the worst option would be to have those roots limited to sitting on top of the concrete with no soil interaction.  Keep in mind that the most important nutrient for your plants (especially trees) to interact with is water which they will find underground but that water will need to be imported/irrigated if kept on top of the old patio.

Ideally, I would rip out all of the cement.  If that is not an option, then I would remove at least 1x1 meter sections of concrete for planting.  Further, I would drill smaller holes all over (maybe get a hammer drill or masonry drill) for air and water infiltration.  But the greater the concrete removal the better!

Concrete removal might not be terribly expensive, but it might be terribly laborious—I mean it is concrete!!

But you can do it!!

These are my thoughts and do what you think is best.  Let me know what you think.


Eric

To me the easiest way to garden on concrete would be to use containers.

https://permies.com/t/4040/permaculture/Container-Garden

https://permies.com/wiki/44118/permaculture-house-plants/Permaculture-Pots-Juliet-Kemp

Raised beds would be another route though they would probably be at least three feet deep.

We tried planting in a kiddie pool thought that did not work out so the next year we removed all the soil, cut the bottom out of the kiddie pool then put the soil back in. We decided that the soil just was not deep enough and stunted the plants.

I would want to think long and hard about whether I wanted that paved area more than I wanted to plant there. Maybe building a workshop or garage is in my future and a big sheet of good cement is a real asset. Maybe I'd build a rental building there and use the income to lease or buy a better place to grow the things I want. And if none of that applies, I'd probably start by making compromises -- growing in containers for a year or two while I develop a sense of what I want, while also planting on the unpaved parts of the property to see what'll grow where in the less than ideal areas.

You did say "if money was not a consideration"... so I would tear it up, bring in some good compost, and plant stuff, because that is what you talk about wanting to do. Then, if I change my mind, I cam always spend money to put it back the way it was or something else.

Another option might be somewhere in the middle. Maybe tear up the edges and plant those, but leave the middle? Or tear up the middle to plant, and leave a walk way around?

Is it an optical effect in the image, or does the concrete slope down towards the house? If it does, it might cause problems when the next big rain storm hits.

I'd tear it all out, personally. Or possibly leave some paved paths? That is, if you're certain that growing things is what you want to use this space for...

I am in some combination of all of the above.   Some well designed raised beds would keep up your options open.

In a space that size I see little advantage to in ground beds for annuals.
The trees and hedge  plants would benefit from being the ground.
So basically , I would choose B, and I would build raised beds or use containers for my annuals.
An above ground  pool or pond would be something to consider.

Lina,

I do not know in what part of Portugal you are located, but if I did raised beds in my hot/arid summer Mediterranean climate, my plants would be roasted. If I did it on concrete/masonry floor, they would get roasted two times faster. When it's mild 30 C in late spring, the concrete gets so hot in full sun, that touching it for longer than few seconds could burn the hand.
Of course it could be probably possible with heavy watering four times a day as two times a day is sometimes insufficient for ground level vegetables.
So if you are in southern/inland part it would be better to remove it, for northern/coastal, it could be potentially kept.