what would you want in a permies women's retreat at wheaton labs?

Kenneth Elwell wrote:... I was also just old enough to pick up on the undertones of “why the fuck is this kid/ boy/ future man-enemy-creature here?!” from a few of the attendees.
...

I can't remember from where I had that experience, but exactly that undertone is the reason why I don't want to join 'women only' activities. There could be women there (or maybe only one) who consider men 'the enemy' ...

I’m also late to the comment party, and I’ll add votes to ‘I wanna come!’ and  ‘learning to use power tools, machinery, and axes, etc.’

Specifically, lessons BY female-bodied people who are experienced with using these types of tools FOR female-bodied people who want to learn to use them safely and ergonomically.

Female-bodied people are on average 20% smaller than male-bodied people, and have a different center of gravity. We sometimes need to move and hold things differently in order to do so safely, and the differences can be subtle, so learning to use big/sharp/powered tools from a male-bodied person isn’t always as safe for us as it would be for a male-bodied newbie. The tool design itself can be a problem- if you can’t close your hand around something that expects you to do that (I’m looking at you, smartphones and power drills!) then you can’t use it as intended, so you have to choose your tool carefully.

Jocelyn, I am curious to know how it feels for you there are some more women now at Wheaton Labs (Coco, Jacqi, Tailor).

How to get 'heavy' jobs done and use tools that father's tend to teach their sons how to use.
Im a woman, I work in mining and I've had to teach other young women how to use a hand saw on the job!
As others have said it is better to be taught by similar body types due to reach, hand size and strength differences.

Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:Jocelyn, I am curious to know how it feels for you there are some more women now at Wheaton Labs (Coco, Jacqi, Tailor).

That there's some balance in the force!! YAY!

I also wanted to say thanks for the additional feedback, Inge, Rin, and natasha. This will help us think about the courses and events we provide here.

For most of this thread, it seemed a lot of the women just wanted to learn new things, and experience things that we offer or have here at wheaton labs that you can't find other places. And we're trying to plan more of that kind of thing.

Speaking of, we'd love your feedback on events we're planning for this September:  https://permies.com/t/118885/permaculture-projects/homestead-skills-aka-PEP-certification.

Hi Ladies,

Here is the Homestead skills jamboree!!!

Check it out, maybe we will see you up here! https://permies.com/wiki/118704/permaculture-projects/September-October-Homestead-Skills-Jamboree#960505

Really really late to this thread, but something to consider would be to get all female leaders for an event. It can be daunting to learn "manly" skills from men. Sometimes seeing another woman do a thing can enable your brain to wrap around the idea that you can do that thing too! It wouldn't have to be marketed toward women specifically as a "women's event", but indicating in the promotional marketing that you have a strong team of women leaders could be a subtle cue to the possible women participants that now's the time to learn the thing without feeling like some guy might make you feel dumb for not knowing how to swing a hammer or use a shovel.

Regarding what to teach: What skills do your female leaders want to teach? What are they most passionate about? Do you know of a female leader in a field (herbalism, etc) that you'd like to invite out to lead a class? Pull that person in and all their followers. When the leader is passionate about their topic, it can make for a great learning environment. If none of your leaders are into textiles but some of your participants might want to learn that and some of them might already know it, encourage impromptu 'teaching' sessions among participants. That could happen during tea/coffee time or in the evenings when they're chatting away on the couches.

The two Jamboree and PEP events looked like a lot of fun! How was the turnout? Did the demographic change noticeably?

Jen Tuuli wrote:Really really late to this thread, but something to consider would be to get all female leaders for an event. It can be daunting to learn "manly" skills from men. Sometimes seeing another woman do a thing can enable your brain to wrap around the idea that you can do that thing too! It wouldn't have to be marketed toward women specifically as a "women's event", but indicating in the promotional marketing that you have a strong team of women leaders could be a subtle cue to the possible women participants that now's the time to learn the thing without feeling like some guy might make you feel dumb for not knowing how to swing a hammer or use a shovel.

Regarding what to teach: What skills do your female leaders want to teach? What are they most passionate about? Do you know of a female leader in a field (herbalism, etc) that you'd like to invite out to lead a class? Pull that person in and all their followers. When the leader is passionate about their topic, it can make for a great learning environment. If none of your leaders are into textiles but some of your participants might want to learn that and some of them might already know it, encourage impromptu 'teaching' sessions among participants. That could happen during tea/coffee time or in the evenings when they're chatting away on the couches.

The two Jamboree and PEP events looked like a lot of fun! How was the turnout? Did the demographic change noticeably?

I would love to learn about wood working crafts, natural building, a.a. from a female teacher, someone who understands that the strength of a woman is different from that of a man. And I would like to find that here in the Netherlands, or in Germany or Belgium.

I will go even farther and suggest the need for "petite" instructors available to teach "petite humans" of either sex, but particularly women, how to use tools and even more, how to determine that a particular tool simply isn't safe for them to use.

I've had a short, broad-shouldered women insist that if she can portage a canoe, she could teach anyone to. Sorry lady - the only way I can do it is to lift, but have someone holding the bow or stern because my narrow shoulders mean that my arms, which are also fine boned, simply can't generate the forces in the right places to keep it balanced. My center of gravity was at least 5 inches higher than hers, and yet I weighed less.

Similarly, I won't use Hubby's grinder because my narrow, small hand can't reach far enough around the tool to have a safe grip. I need alternative tools, positions, and planning to do things safely, whereas Hubby would simply use brute force and get away with it.

I would love to be checked out on his new electric chainsaw. There are some great things I'd like to try. But it's not worth dying over. I would absolutely need someone who's studied ergonomics based not on the "average male", but on the person standing in front of him/her and judge whether I can do so safely, or genuinely be better off walking away.

Jay Angler wrote: I will go even farther and suggest the need for "petite" instructors available to teach "petite humans" of either sex, but particularly women, how to use tools and even more, how to determine that a particular tool simply isn't safe for them to use.
...

That's a good idea Jay!
I am not really that 'petite', but I do not have 'masculine muscles'! I am able to carry something heavy above my head or on my shoulders, but I can not lift it up from the ground ...
With that kind of tools one of my big problems are my small hands. It was even a problem when playing the piano or the guitar: I am not able to reach all chords I'd like to play! Tools made for use in one (man's) hand ... I need both of my hands for those ... and then they aren't made for use with two hands, so it's unsafe.

I would love to host a "Ladies' SKIP Week" at Wheaton Labs

I would imagine it to cover all the SKIP aspects but focusing on creating a positive environment for those who have never used some of the specialized tools. Never held a chainsaw? Totally okay! Never canned before? Totally okay! Never used a Willow feeder? Totally okay!

Every aspect uses 'specialized tools' that someone may have never heard of before. In my experience, womens' groups can foster a non-judgmental environment, a sense of support, and camaraderie.

Ashley Cottonwood wrote:I would love to host a "Ladies' SKIP Week" at Wheaton Labs

I would imagine it to cover all the SKIP aspects but focusing on creating a positive environment for those who have never used some of the specialized tools. Never held a chainsaw? Totally okay! Never canned before? Totally okay! Never used a Willow feeder? Totally okay!

Every aspect uses 'specialized tools' that someone may have never heard of before. In my experience, womens' groups can foster a non-judgmental environment, a sense of support, and camaraderie.

I'd LOVE this. I'm already organizing which BBs I feel it'd change my sense of myself to accomplish. Give me a go on some earthmoving equipment! help me create mirrors like this ...(rocket forge? definitely want to make a simple rocket SOMEthing)

If it wasn't the wrong side of the Atlantic for me I would really be up for this! Some like minded female companionship can sometimes be hard to find!

Nancy Reading wrote:If it wasn't the wrong side of the Atlantic for me I would really be up for this! Some like minded female companionship can sometimes be hard to find!

To me it's at the wrong side of the Atlantic too. And even the distance between you and me is a little too large. But maybe once I'll cross the North Sea by ferry and will try how riding my bicycle at the left side of the road goes ...

Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote: But maybe once I'll cross the North Sea by ferry and will try how riding my bicycle at the left side of the road goes ...

You'd be welcome Inge! We're single track roads here, but yes, stay left!

Nancy Reading wrote:If it wasn't the wrong side of the Atlantic for me I would really be up for this! Some like minded female companionship can sometimes be hard to find!

For me I'll borrow your idea and say I'm on the wrong side of the Pacific, and yet I'm a very likely candidate. If by going I'll move my current projects forward, it becomes priority. I'm community-focused, sustainable design focused community. So there's LOTS of skills I could apply around here.