Forums:

Soap-making oils, which ones to choose?

Ann Torrence

steward

Posts: 1191

Location: Torrey, UT; 6,840'/2085m; 7.5" precip; 125 frost-free days

120

I like...

posted 4 years ago

I've had The Soapmaker's Companion book for years and finally have a spare moment to consider making soap for the homestead and maybe to peddle at our farmer's market if I like the craft.

I'm looking at the recipes with their lists of oils that soap-makers use and I'm a bit daunted by the idea of making wise choices in terms of sustainably grown and acquired. It hardly makes sense to use canola oil, what's the likelihood that's a GMO? Etc. Sunflower oil sounds like something that didn't come half-way around the world. Coconuts? On the surface, that sounds better than palm oil, but how would I know? My great-uncle was a jojoba ranching pioneer when I was a kid, that might be an eco-warrior choice.

Any resources or thoughts or experience?

Blogging about homesteading, photography and living in a small Utah town | Growing mostly cider apples at Stray Arrow Ranch

R Scott

pollinator

Posts: 3450

Location: Kansas Zone 6a

posted 4 years ago

My wife wrestled with this for her soap business, plus vegan vs. tallow/lard (which are more sustainable and make a better soap than many oils but have a stigma).

There isn't one easy answer. She crossed off the " no, never" oils for us and then formulated the best soap based on performance with what was left. Once she got that where she wanted it, we sourced the best of each oil we could find. A few revisions based on experience and I think we have a really good product that is as sustainable as we know how to make it. We crossed off the list any GMO's and sourced things like palm oil from certified sustainable sources. We could easily cut our raw materials cost in half or less if we went with the normal oils, but we can charge a premium that more than makes up for the input cost.

"You must be the change you want to see in the world." "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." --Mahatma Gandhi
"Preach the Gospel always, and if necessary, use words." --Francis of Assisi.
"Family farms work when the whole family works the farm." -- Adam Klaus

Ann Torrence

steward

Posts: 1191

Location: Torrey, UT; 6,840'/2085m; 7.5" precip; 125 frost-free days

120

I like...

posted 4 years ago

R Scott wrote:She crossed off the " no, never" oils for us.

Can you ask her what the worst of the worst are, in her opinion?

Blogging about homesteading, photography and living in a small Utah town | Growing mostly cider apples at Stray Arrow Ranch

Troy Rhodes

Posts: 632

posted 4 years ago

She should experiment some. Nothing is chiseled in stone yet, and the type of oil has a noticeable effect on the qualities of the soap.

My personal favorite was 50% soybean oil, 30% lard and 20% coconut oil. Freaking amazing soap. I'll never use that crap from the store again.

Too much coconut oil make the soap drying. The coconut component makes for a lot of lather, and performs well in hard water, but too much is too much, and it's expensive.

Straight lard makes great soap and pigs -can be- very sustainable.

I look at it like, anything made in my kitchen is better than anything from the big industrial soap complex.

Lina Joana

Posts: 135

posted 10 months ago

I have just started making soap once a year. My family has a tradition of deep frying on Fat Tuesday, (aka mardi gras). I wanted to use the leftover fry oil, so last year I used a soap calculator and gave it a go with an old pot, thermometer and whisk. 3 hours later, it finally traced, and made a soft soap that left a film on your hands.
This year, my recipe was 70% used deep fry oil, 24% coconut oil (the cheaper refined stuff) and 5% olive oil. The final bar lathers nicely, feels pretty good, but gets soft on the bottom easily from the drips of water on the sink. Still, a massive improvement.
When looking for recipes, I found an article about a woman who uses restaurant cooking oil, and sells all the soap she can make. No recipe, of course. Still, with a bit more experimentation I think you could get a really nice bar with a lot of used oil. Now, as far as chemical reaidues, I don’t know - I am not so worried that I don’t get drive through fries once in a while, so I’m clearly not that concerned. From a waste reduction standpoint, it is great, especially in areas where biofuel folks haven’t cornered rhat market.
Just another source to consider.

Tereza Okava

gardener

Posts: 1019

Location: South of Capricorn

331

I like...

posted 10 months ago

following this thread! I make soap with used fry oils, but since we no longer fry at home i`m reduced to either begging used oil (it works) or maybe lard, which I only make when I need but could easily make more often.
We don`t have a lot of affordable options for oil, quite honestly.

Xisca Nicolas

pollinator

Posts: 1956

Location: La Palma (Canary island) Zone 11

I like...

posted 10 months ago

Fatty acids seem to enter the skin as well as through the guts... So I would avoid any of the high omega 6 oils! And would favor saturated and mono-insaturated fats.
Thus lard, tropical fats and olive oil.
Also think about laurel oil as in the Allep soap.

Logically, it seems we should avoid oxydized fats, but this is just a guess, and maybe they are ok? For eating they are NOT, that is why I doubt...
Maybe ok to recycle fats for loundry? ....and not for body use?

Xisca - pics! Dry subtropical Mediterranean - My project
However loud I tell it, this is never a truth, only my experience...

Jay Angler

gardener

Posts: 1777

Location: Pacific Wet Coast

605

I like...

posted 10 months ago

I'm using soap mostly for hand washing as I semi-follow the "no poo" shower system, using a minimal amount on really dirty spots. I've made chicken fat soap in the past which my spouse liked and at least I'd grown it myself, but some people complain it's drying.
I was wondering if anyone had tried making soap out of Native Bayberries (https://www.heirloomgardener.com/plant-profiles/medicinal/how-to-grow-bayberry-zm0z17wzcwil), rather than candles? It's described as a "wax" rather than an oil. It would be nice to find a perennial oil source that can be grown in temperate climates for soap making. I don't know if M. californica will grow as far north as I am but I also rarely use candles so it hasn't been on my urgent list to investigate.

Visit Redhawk's soil series: https://permies.com/wiki/redhawk-soil

Dustin Rhodes

pollinator

Posts: 444

Location: San Diego, California

I like...

posted 10 months ago

I have a giant jar of saved bacon grease, and we are not cooking with it enough to justify it; any chance I can use this for my soap? Any extra processing to do before starting the soap-making?

Experimenting and growing on my small acre in SW USA; Fruit & Nut trees w/ annuals, hoping to get Chickens, rabbits, and in-laws onto property soon.

Long term goal - Furniture & Luthier Stay-at-home farm dad.

Carla Burke

gardener

Posts: 958

284

I like...

posted 10 months ago

Dustin Rhodes wrote:I have a giant jar of saved bacon grease, and we are not cooking with it enough to justify it; any chance I can use this for my soap? Any extra processing to do before starting the soap-making?

Not only do I see this as a great big 'YES!', but imho, it is not only amazing for your skin, but makes for a great smelling soap. That bacon scent mellows, in use, so you don't walk around smelling like you just finished cooking 10lbs of bacon. And, what could be more 'permie'/sustainable, than something you already have as a byproduct of something you've just eaten, and will eat, again? Using it this way means no waste. It makes great gifts, too - especially for bacon lovers.

The only thing...more expensive than education is ignorance.~Ben Franklin

Lina Joana

Posts: 135

posted 10 months ago

Personally, I’m not worried about omega 6 in my soap. It occurs in food, and we are talking about something that gets rinsed off quite quickly, not a lotion. If the soap smells nice, and my skin feels fine, I feel like I’m probably fine. Naturally, everyone needs to make their own determination on this.

Xisca Nicolas

pollinator

Posts: 1956

Location: La Palma (Canary island) Zone 11

I like...

posted 10 months ago

Lina Joana wrote:Personally, I’m not worried about omega 6 in my soap. It occurs in food, and we are talking about something that gets rinsed off quite quickly, not a lotion. If the soap smells nice, and my skin feels fine, I feel like I’m probably fine. Naturally, everyone needs to make their own determination on this.

Oh I think you are right for soap!
I would be more careful about massage oil for example.

I still wonder about using oxidized fats that are no more ok for eating.... Maybe no problemm either, for the same reason?

Xisca - pics! Dry subtropical Mediterranean - My project
However loud I tell it, this is never a truth, only my experience...

Hans Quistorff

pollinator

Posts: 1081

Location: Longbranch, WA

162

I like...

posted 10 months ago

I don't use any fat or oil I just use
soap berries a.k.a. Soap Nuts. For hand and body washing I make an extract with boiling water and fill my pump dispenser.

Hans Albert Quistorff, LMT
land available on the Key Peninsula
gmail hquistorff

Anne Miller

master steward

Posts: 2812

Location: USDA Zone 8a

757

I like...

posted 10 months ago

I have always wanted to make soap. I am just afraid of the lye though maybe I just don't need to be. Here is a helpful article about lye and the oils for soap making:

https://wellnessmama.com/60992/how-to-make-soap/

Here are the oils she uses:

Coconut Oil
Olive Oil
Shea Butter
Cocoa Butter
Castor Oil
Avocado Oil
Mango Butter

Invasive plants are Earth's way of insisting we notice her medicines.
Everyone learns what works by learning what doesn't work.

Xisca Nicolas

pollinator

Posts: 1956

Location: La Palma (Canary island) Zone 11

I like...

posted 10 months ago

Thanks for being on track with the title!
Just to say that cacao butter is sooo expensive, that I keep it for eating!

And I notice that none of these oils are polyinsaturated!
Avocado and olive are both monoinsturated...

I wonder about the price of castor oil, and also its medicinal use.... I would like to make some oil for local use on the liver, warm with a cloth....

So I wanted to say that there is another CRITERIA to choose the oil:
good for soap,
...but not "much better for another use"!

Xisca - pics! Dry subtropical Mediterranean - My project
However loud I tell it, this is never a truth, only my experience...

denise ra

pollinator

Posts: 232

Location: OK High Plains Prairie, 23" rain avg

I like...

posted 4 months ago

Hans Quistorff, A jewelry book I am reading says the soapberry flesh can be irritating. Have you ever found that to be so?

Time is
Too slow for those who Wait,
Too swift for those who Fear,
Too long for those who Grieve,
Too short for those who Rejoice,
But for those who Love,
Time is not.
-Henry van Dyke

Hans Quistorff

pollinator

Posts: 1081

Location: Longbranch, WA

162

I like...

posted 4 months ago

denise ra wrote:Hans Quistorff, A jewelry book I am reading says the soapberry flesh can be irritating. Have you ever found that to be so?

I can't say what the fresh berries would be like. The dried berries from Ecco Nuts I have not found to be irritating. To the contrary garments washed, rinsed, and dried with the soap nuts are more comfortable on my skin than conventionally washed cloths. I make my personal wash liquid by adding a dozen soap berries with a sprig of rosemary and lavender to a quart jar and adding boiling water cap it and water bath it to sterilize. It can form a vinegar which I don't find objectionable. Washing is slightly different; wet the skin thoroughly with the extract then rinse. Garden dirt come right out of the crevices in my hands.

Hans Albert Quistorff, LMT
land available on the Key Peninsula
gmail hquistorff

denise ra

pollinator

Posts: 232

Location: OK High Plains Prairie, 23" rain avg

I like...

posted 4 months ago

Can the soap be used for a shampoo? I seem to be sensitive to shampoos, they break my face out.

Time is
Too slow for those who Wait,
Too swift for those who Fear,
Too long for those who Grieve,
Too short for those who Rejoice,
But for those who Love,
Time is not.
-Henry van Dyke

Hans Quistorff

pollinator

Posts: 1081

Location: Longbranch, WA

162

I like...

posted 4 months ago

Yes I use the soap berry extract for my shampoo.
This is the latest message I received from Ecco Nuts
Hello Hans

Last month I sent a couple of emails asking for help for Eco Nuts.

I want to sincerely thank you for your orders, kind words, offers for help, and advice.

I also want to thank those of you who posted reviews on your social media for our products, and shared photos on Instagram and Facebook. We really appreciate it!

We have almost cleared out most of our back bills and we are able to stay in business this month.

We currently have $13,000 left to go to be caught up and I think with your help we can do it this month. So if you haven’t placed an order yet, please consider ordering soon as it would really help us out.

The sales from last month, in addition to keeping us afloat enabled us to afford to renew our organic certification, and completely restock our liquid detergent which we were completely sold out of before. If you’d like to give it a try, we have lots of small size bottles (doing 48 loads for natural or 24 loads for certified organic).

You can order the natural version here and organic here.

If you would like to invest or donate or have other ways and ideas of helping out, please reach out, I’d love to hear from you!

Naturally,

Scott

Hans Albert Quistorff, LMT
land available on the Key Peninsula
gmail hquistorff

John C Daley

Posts: 861

Location: Bendigo , Australia

I like...

posted 4 months ago

This is an amazing topic

John Daley Bendigo, Australia
The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan

denise ra

pollinator

Posts: 232

Location: OK High Plains Prairie, 23" rain avg

I like...

posted 4 months ago

John C Daley, do you have soap nuts in Australia?

Time is
Too slow for those who Wait,
Too swift for those who Fear,
Too long for those who Grieve,
Too short for those who Rejoice,
But for those who Love,
Time is not.
-Henry van Dyke

John C Daley

Posts: 861

Location: Bendigo , Australia

I like...

posted 4 months ago

By 'nut" I assume you mean people who dabble with soap recipes.
Yes, but I have not often seen a discussion like this.
I am not a 'soapy', but I am fascinated by the subject.

John Daley Bendigo, Australia
The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan

denise ra

pollinator

Posts: 232

Location: OK High Plains Prairie, 23" rain avg

I like...

posted 4 months ago

John C. Daley - LOL, I mis spoke- soap berries, not soap nuts!

Time is
Too slow for those who Wait,
Too swift for those who Fear,
Too long for those who Grieve,
Too short for those who Rejoice,
But for those who Love,
Time is not.
-Henry van Dyke

John C Daley

Posts: 861

Location: Bendigo , Australia

I like...

posted 4 months ago

I may have introduced something to your lexicon.
I cannot work out what soap berries are anyway??

John Daley Bendigo, Australia
The Enemy of progress is the hope of a perfect plan

Carla Burke

gardener

Posts: 958

284

I like...

posted 4 months ago

Here ya go - soap nuts/soap berries: https://www.reusablenation.com/zero-waste-living/waste-free-laundry-do-soap-nuts-actually-work

The only thing...more expensive than education is ignorance.~Ben Franklin

M. Phelps

Posts: 143

posted 4 months ago

i bought some soaps recently from cedar point soaps and the ingredient list is as follows:
olive oil,coconut oil,palm oil,distilled water,sodium hydroxide
and a list of scented oils depending on the bar

Meg Mitchell

pollinator

Posts: 199

Location: Gulf Islands, Canada

I like...

posted 4 months ago

IMO if you have access to ethically-raised meat, then 100% lard soap is the most obvious choice. It makes a really nice soap and since animals are raised all over the world, it's something you can get from your and ethical sources. Most of the plant oils aren't really grown where I live, and when they are, it's either done as an expensive novelty or it's done with a lot of chemical processing.

As a consumer, I love a good lard soap and I avoid anything with palm oil. Even "certified" palm oil is really sketchy. From what I understand the certification process involves the farm owners promising to try to do better than they have been. Then if they don't, they get a slap on the wrist and have to promise to do better again, and this process can repeat indefinitely. The certification program may have started with good intentions but it seems like greenwashing now.

when you're going through hell, keep going!

Carla Burke

gardener

Posts: 958

284

I like...

posted 4 months ago

I'm not big on lard soap, personally. I don't hate it - I just prefer tallow. The type of oil in a soap *can* make a huge difference in the soap, and ethics, economics, health issues, geographic region, and even climate, can all play into it, so what oil you personally should use is... well... a personal thing. A vegan or vegetarian isn't likely to want anything with animal fats, some faiths will have issues with lard, because it's pork, some people are allergic to certain things, like nuts, coconut, or sunflowers. Some oils have certain health benefits, too. I like tallow and jojoba, for their similarity and compatibility with human sebum, and the fact that they don't aggravate my allergies or skin sensitivities. Very much coconut oil (which, btw is also on the list of "comedogenic - pore-clogging - oils) in my skin care products - including soap - dries out my skin, horribly, but, very much olive oil, even with a lower superfat percentage ends up being too heavy and oily, on my skin.

So, I think researching the oils at your disposal: what properties are inherent in them, cost, any ethical concerns you may have, etc, would be a wise way to begin your search.

The only thing...more expensive than education is ignorance.~Ben Franklin

I once met a man from Nantucket. He had a tiny ad

Exciting Updates to Dailyish Freebies!!!!

https://permies.com/t/135568/Exciting-Updates-Dailyish-Freebies