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Getting "man jobs" done as a single woman homesteader  RSS feed

 
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As a single woman homesteader I get asked ALL the time how I do stuff without a man. I think that the cultural split between "women's work" and "men's work" is especially prominent in the homesteading lifestyle, since there are a lost more domestic-y domestic chores than the average suburban house (like canning, baking bread, etc) as well as a lot more of the "heavy lifting" tasks like mechanical things, building stuff, etc.

So here's a video where I talk about how I deal with it, what I do instead, and how I sometimes modify tasks to be more doable for myself. A lot of it is a shift of mindset and understanding that while I was never really "expected" to learn things like car repairs, drywall, etc. that doesn't mean I can't learn. Having a "is there any reason I can't do this?" mindset instead of "I can't do that!"

 
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My partner and I have taskd we each do more of because we are better at it butttt he makes lovely bread when I'm at work and I haul all the water when he's working.
We have everything set up so that physically I can do everything (it might take me 2 trips instead of his 1 sometimes) or I carry scissors or a knife for opening sacks that he can rip with his bare hands.

We each work away for extended periods and we can each run a farm on our own.  For carrying pig feed I have a cart where he has biceps. I wrote down the planting plan so he can pick it up anytime and plant away without having to redo all my research on guilds.

Women all over the world farm and regularly farm alone/with children and have done through history. Let's try not to be daunted by it
 
pollinator
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I watched a man of integrity, a man I EXTREMELY admire, absolutely lose it on a guy when he made an anti-woman joke. The man? A dairy farmer who has over 1000 cows he is milking 3 times a day. He is proud of his daughters, his wife, and some of his workers that are women and honestly put most men to shame when it comes to work ethic. Dairy farms do that though.

Honestly, it disappoints me that this sort of thing is even on here, as I do not look at any woman as being unable to do what I do on their own farms, alone, with a husband, or otherwise.

I would make a list of the women I so admire on here, and really, really am trying to not do that, because I would inevitably leave many women out on here that I feel put many men to shame in terms of integrity, intellect, work ethic, and sheer physical ability. Let me just say, if you are a lady and regularly post on here, then you are most likely on my list of woman to whom I admire.

In terms of farming, WE have to be gender-blind.
 
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I will go on the record saying I'm a woman who didn't learn a lot of the "man chores" growing up, and I have some physical health challenges that mean I can't do a lot of heavy lifting and intense physical labor.  Finding ways to do what needs to be done in ways that work for me (or perhaps finding ways to barter) are extremely important to me.  

I agree that women farmers of all ages and backgrounds all around the world are amazing and strong.  But there are some people (sometimes women) who need to learn how to do things they weren't taught, or were even taught that they couldn't do--and people with physical challenges who need other ways of approaching work.

I'm glad to find tools that help me, like the small hand tool, the hori hori, which makes small scale hand digging much easier.  Little things like this, experience, and encouragement can make this sort of work more accessible for lots of people.

So I am not offended by the post but encouraged that others learn ways around any limits perceived or otherwise.
 
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I love both my kids but I trust my 10 year old daughter with the power tools over her 24 year old brother.
She is simply  more grounded, more willing to learn by doing.
Ive been a an industrial electrician for most of my adult life, and I discovered that ALL shapes and sizes of men could contribute, becuase we where all expected to do what we COULD.
I've been the flabby weak young guy and I'm now the brawny fat old guy who tires easily.
In between I was a fit energetic climber,digger and lifter who did the grimy work to earn the knowledge I have now.
When women are given the same expectations, they get the job done.

My mother in law has been sick lately, so ,my wife has been tending to her.
This leaves me with my regular work , plus the house and kids.
I feel overwhelmed, like I told my mom"I have to work all day and them come home and work some more? What am I woman? No I'm just a man, darn it!"
She laughed, because she worked as a teacher, cooked, cleaned and earned her masters degree all at the same time.
She still isn't sure how she did it.
My father did take over the laundry during that time, a job he refuses to relinquish to this day...

I'm gonna watch this video, maybe it will help me grow some ovaries.
 
Bethany Dutch
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Lori Whit wrote:I agree that women farmers of all ages and backgrounds all around the world are amazing and strong.  But there are some people (sometimes women) who need to learn how to do things they weren't taught, or were even taught that they couldn't do--and people with physical challenges who need other ways of approaching work.

I'm glad to find tools that help me, like the small hand tool, the hori hori, which makes small scale hand digging much easier.  Little things like this, experience, and encouragement can make this sort of work more accessible for lots of people.

So I am not offended by the post but encouraged that others learn ways around any limits perceived or otherwise.



Honestly, I'm surprised that anyone would be offended by the post. Or maybe I'm mis-reading some of the comments. I am a single woman homesteader, and the truth is there are some things I have to do differently. Most homesteading couples that I see have a relatively traditional split, more or less, in terms of the tasks. I doubt you see many homesteads where they have an opposite split, for example (where the women does all the heavy lifting, building stuff, mechanical things, etc and the husband does all the domestic chores)

Being on my own, I have to do all of it. I'm not "less" because I have less upper body strength, for example... I just need to figure out different ways of doing things. I'm not "less" because I wasn't taught how to work on cars when I was growing up, it just means I have to teach myself now.

And you are right, some of us need to learn how to do things we weren't taught to do. From a realistic standpoint, it is more likely that a little boy is going to grow up being socialized (maybe a different word would be better here) to work on cars than a little girl. Or to build stuff. Same reason a little girl is more likely to be socialized to do things like knitting, sewing, etc. It's a crappy fact, since none of those things are inherently gender specific, but it's the culture we live in. I'm glad we are slowly but surely coming out of that, but it is what it is.

As a single woman homesteading with kids, I just always have to remind myself to check my radar. You know how some things aren't even on your radar? And then if you really think about it you realize there's not really any good reason why you can't learn how to do something, etc. I mean yeah I have physical, time and resource limitations and it doesn't make sense for me to actually do everything (like cut my own firewood when I can earn enough money to pay for a winter's worth in a tenth of the time it would take me to cut/process it myself). I have to be efficient with my time and my resources, that's the only way I'll get any of this stuff done.
 
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I think that a woman can hire a few contractors or rent/buy a few tools/machinery and do any job a man can do.
Okay maybe hiring a few contractors is 'cheating' but everyone uses tools so go ahead and get an appropriate tool.

But I think what you are really saying is what to do when you haven't been "book-educated" or "experience-educated" in certain tasks like electrical or changing a tire, lol. I know cheeky tire example.

The answer is:
get educated (youtube, books, workshop/school, as questions on forums, google stuff)
get low-risked experience (volunteer, practice before you really needed, hire someone to review your work, hire someone not just to fix it but to teach you in the process)
 
Bethany Dutch
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S Bengi wrote:I think that a woman can hire a few contractors or rent/buy a few tools/machinery and do any job a man can do.
Okay maybe hiring a few contractors is 'cheating' but everyone uses tools so go ahead and get an appropriate tool.

But I think what you are really saying is what to do when you haven't been "book-educated" or "experience-educated" in certain tasks like electrical or changing a tire, lol. I know cheeky tire example.

The answer is:
get educated (youtube, books, workshop/school, as questions on forums, google stuff)
get low-risked experience (volunteer, practice before you really needed, hire someone to review your work, hire someone not just to fix it but to teach you in the process)



That is basically it, yes. I mean - aside from the whole "how do you do it alone?" being the #1 question I get, I see in the Facebook groups at least once or twice a week, some woman comes on and asks "Can I homestead alone without a man?" I've never seen men ask the same question, so there's SOMETHING making women often think they can't homestead alone. That's literally why I started my channel... lol. Because I have such a hard time with the fact that women doubt their ability to do this solo. Or maybe they just need some encouragement and someone to tell them YES YOU CAN. Or to see other women doing it and realizing that they, too, can pursue this dream.

The truth is, it's not even so much that they consciously feel they don't have the skills, I think it's a subconscious holdup of sorts. Sometimes you can want something deep down inside and not even realize it's possible until someone tells you it is. Kinda like how even when I was a little girl I wanted to live a hermit life in the mountains but it wasn't until I was in my mid twenties and I was gifted the Carla Emery Encyclopedia that it totally hit me like a ton of bricks that living a hermit life in the mountains was a legit thing I could be working towards and that people really lived like that! I was blown away and immediately started working towards homesteading actively.

But before I'd read the book, I just kinda thought of myself as someone who might have been born in the wrong century and really liked the outdoors but was still following along the humdrum of "regular" civilized life. It took someone saying "Hey... this is a thing and you can do it, really!" (in a sense) for me to gain the confidence and direction I needed to get there where I always wanted to be, deep down inside.
 
S Bengi
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Just like woman, alot of men who are homesteading alone:

Worry about finding a good woman and even actively put themselves out there to pursue women because they unconsciously feel like they are missing something.
Gets Harassed by worried friends/family how they are surviving with single dad workload.
Gets told that it isn't healthy to be raising the kids by himself and that the kids need a female role model in the house.
Gets told that he is a wonderful single father/potential partner and they have a friend of a friend who they want to set him up on a date with.
Also gets told he is a loner hermit weirdo.
Asked when are you going to produce some grandkids, maybe you are a hellbound homosexual.

The struggle is when 'friend/family' demand that you provide them with acceptable normalcy, guidance, education when you are already overburden.
For the most part it is okay if they are just asking for education vs trying to 'fix' your lifestyle.
And I am glad that you have a video that provide education for others to have a easier path if they have a similar situation.
 
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For me, it's not a gendered thing, but rather an alone thing. Some tasks are just easier with another set of hands. I was taking apart some metal shelving in my garage because we are taking it with us, and you have to lift the shelves up over the posts evenly. The shelving unit is like 8 ft. high and 6 ft wide, this was not easy to do alone. Now, being taller would have helped, most men are taller than me, although my ex isn't, but mostly another person would have helped.

I expect that other than jobs that require a penis, I should be fine.
 
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Bethany: I'm a small female who does a LOT of traditionally male work 95% of the time alone, it is just what I find interesting to do, or needs to be done. If you haven't seen the thread I did on Tool Thoughts for Women you might find it interesting. I keep meaning to write the rest of that series, that goes into a lot more tools, and the physics of physiology to choose the ones that work for you, but keep getting distracted. (Squirrel!!)

Have not watched your video, not a video person, I may try later tonight. I saw commentary in this thread about hearing snarky comments about what you do, the one that baffles me is "You must be a lesbian." No. My skills and talents have nothing to do with who I sleep with. Where do people GET this stuff?

And I always LOVE your posts! Wish you lived near me :)
Keep being awesome!
 
Bethany Dutch
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Pearl Sutton wrote:Bethany: I'm a small female who does a LOT of traditionally male work 95% of the time alone, it is just what I find interesting to do, or needs to be done. If you haven't seen the thread I did on Tool Thoughts for Women you might find it interesting. I keep meaning to write the rest of that series, that goes into a lot more tools, and the physics of physiology to choose the ones that work for you, but keep getting distracted. (Squirrel!!)

Have not watched your video, not a video person, I may try later tonight. I saw commentary in this thread about hearing snarky comments about what you do, the one that baffles me is "You must be a lesbian." No. My skills and talents have nothing to do with who I sleep with. Where do people GET this stuff?

And I always LOVE your posts! Wish you lived near me :)
Keep being awesome!



Whoah... I don't see that comment! Was it in a different thread? I did see a very disappointing discussion about the snarky comments thing on Facebook this morning in one of the homsteading groups... did someone say that to you?

Anyway - I wish you were a video person.. because I just read the tool thread and you have SO MUCH WISDOM. Great job :)
 
Pearl Sutton
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Wow. I don't see it either. Where did I get the idea it was in this thread? I have been bouncing around a lot, my apologies for confusion. And no, I don't do FB...

There's a lot more to the tool thread, it's just still in my head!  :)
So many cool things to learn and do, so little time to write about it....

 
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Pearl's tool thread is something I'm interested in.

Brittany, that was a good video -- you have come to the same conclusions I have (reluctantly) come to, about the value and sometimes the necessity of getting someone else to do things for you.  I came to it later -- I'm sixty-one now and have a bad back and there are things I just cannot do anymore, like stacking a cord of wood in one morning, or unloading and stacking several tons of hay.  I have to hire those things done (one way or the other).  It's a little harder for me because I grew up pretty independent; it's really hard for me to come to a point where I can admit that something I used to be able to do is no longer possible.  But I'm not ready to move into town (I never will be ready to move into town, LOL!), and those things must be done, so if I can't, someone else will have to.  I had to turn it around and look at it from the other direction -- the people who I pay to help me with those chores depend on that income; it's part of their livelihood.  So I'm helping them out.  That makes it a little more palatable.

As far as Travis's comment about gender -- anyone who refuses to admit that there ARE physical differences in strength between men and women has drunk the PC kool-aid. This in no way diminishes women, or is prejudiced against women.  There are things where women are stronger than men, but upper-body physical strength is not, in general, one of them.  Women and men are just not the same.  We are not *supposed* to be the same!  It is not sexist or bigoted or any of the other PC buzz-words to admit that!  It's just fact.  Women ARE good workers and CAN and often do run farms by themselves.  But there is no getting around the fact that some of the heaviest work would be easier for a man than it is for a woman.  Like Brittany said, you have to work smarter, or evaluate your priorities and maybe hire someone, in order to get those things done.  

Kathleen

 
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Thank you for this general, sensible bit of wisdom, Kathleen!

Kathleen Sanderson wrote:P But there is no getting around the fact that some of the heaviest work would be easier for a man than it is for a woman.  Like Brittany said, you have to work smarter, or evaluate your priorities and maybe hire someone, in order to get those things done.  



Yeah,....along with Pearl's Tool Thread, my observation and heard laments from my wife can easily be seen in the size of most tools (from circular to reciprocating to chain-saws and right through the cordless options) as well as just the standard 4 X 8 sheet of plywood.  I can stretch my arms and pick up a sheet of plywood, either hold it sideways or balanced on my head for transportation, and hold it in place for nailing or screwing down.  My wife notes how few women she sees on jobsites doing this task.  It may be that the standard 4 X 8 sheet of plywood ( or paneling,....or drywall) was not deliberately sized that way with your average guy in mind, but the end result is that such a dimension makes it very hard for most women to handle.

With that out of the way, my late-60s age wife still does a pretty good job building and repairing animal shelters and stacking a hay wagon (pretty much just to impress the guy we buy the hay from......who at 78 will load the whole wagon for you if you don't stop him! :-) ).  And as Bethany has observed for many, my wife had to shed her city upbringing (along with the indoctrination of what, as a girl/woman, you are *supposed* to want out of life!) and learn how to design animal housing and assemble it herself from when we would both be at the task or from watching videos for others doing it.  She's learned to use hydraulic jacks and all sorts of "third hand" gizmos (not hand-me-downs, but things that literally provide a 'third hand' on the job project) as she has become smarter at the implementation.

One other probably obvious comment on hiring out:  We've run into many who will reduce the price for something bartered.  Old barn wood, a few frozen chicken in the freezer, and agreement to let someone hunt on your land for a weekend, etc.....it's not always obvious, but it can reduce the bill of hiring out sometimes.  And never be afraid if you have local friend contacts just to say "Hey....I'll buy you dinner at such and such if you can just stop by and help me get this beam into place..."----that sort of thing.
 
Pearl Sutton
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Kathleen Sanderson wrote:... Anyone who refuses to admit that there ARE physical differences in strength between men and women has drunk the PC kool-aid. This in no way diminishes women, or is prejudiced against women.  There are things where women are stronger than men, but upper-body physical strength is not, in general, one of them.  Women and men are just not the same.  We are not *supposed* to be the same!  It is not sexist or bigoted or any of the other PC buzz-words to admit that!  It's just fact.  Women ARE good workers and CAN and often do run farms by themselves.  But there is no getting around the fact that some of the heaviest work would be easier for a man than it is for a woman.  Like Brittany said, you have to work smarter, or evaluate your priorities and maybe hire someone, in order to get those things done.  



Exactly! I go for work smarter, as my finances don't currently allow me to hire out much at all. But the things I hire the guys for are things that I CAN do, but it would take me 8 times as long and I'd ache for 2 weeks, or they can kick it out in a few hours. There ARE differences in physiology, there are also things a woman can do easier than a man ever could, due to anatomy. The first time I worked on a car was because I had little hands, and I could reach in and remove parts that the guys would have had to tear half the car apart to fix. We need to embrace our differences, because they are there,  and they are assets if we use them well.

Skills too, some of the more traditional female skills I have are my best barter items, I cook really neat food, I can sew anything you have ripped. I had a car that ate starters (long story) and had one bolt that took either dropping the engine, or a lot of force on a messy arrangement of extensions and such that there was no room for cheater bars. I had a guy I'd call "Hey, it's lasagna and starters time again!" he'd always come get that bolt off and back on for me, knowing lasagna was the bribe I was offering. If I HAD to, I could have done it, but it was easy for him, and lasagna is easy for me. We work WITH our assets, not against them. THAT is wisdom :)
 
Lori Whit
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Like it or not, large swaths of the world have been designed intentionally or not for men.  IIRC, there was even a study recently that showed women sustained more harm in car crashes because cars were literally designed for "the default" aka men.  Ideally, car designs for crashes would protect all humans equally, taking into design different sizes and varieties of humans.

Designs considering the needs of men but not women were more likely to be a blind spot than intentional exclusion, but the results are the same: women think things aren't for them, because they're designed in a way that's difficult to use, or made for more upper body strength, different body shade and sizing, etc.  

Humans need tools for survival.  There's no reason not to consider the sorts of tools that different people find most useful.  These days, people find ways to engineer items for people with physical disabilities, and more women are becoming engineers, so I hope that tools and techniques will continue to become more broadly useful to people.  In the meantime, we have to be thoughtful, pragmatic, and sometimes, find workarounds.

Another part of human survival--community.  The comments about working together, barter, etc., these have always helped humans survive.  Historically, most people have always needed communities and to pool our abilities, rather than survive as a bunch of separated loners.  Villages, extended families, towns, cities--all sorts of interconnections.  Now we have the internet, too!  :-)

At the end of the day--figuring out what needs done, and how to do it--that's very human.  There often is more than one way to accomplish something, and permaculture especially teaches us to think of different solutions to problems.  
 
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We have seen an amazing upsurge of women in trades where I live on Vancouver Island. But I notice that they aren't choosing roofing, heavy steel construction or industrial concrete forming where you have to lift those giant sheets of oily form plywood.

There's a father-daughter team of electricians. He's in his forties and she's about 20. He carries the heavy spools and he runs the powerful auger that drills through the floor joists and does a number of other things that require a bit of strength. She is very quick at running the wires and her smaller hands are perfect for messing with breaker panels and for attaching all of the switches and plugs. So they have found a way to optimize the strengths of each of them. I have seen a few female electricians and several tile setters and one who specializes in kitchen countertops, with her husband. These things are exacting and generally don't require great physical strength. Women are more flexible and provided they wear their knee pads, will probably suffer less fatigue than a man doing the same work on a tile floor. I met a lady one time who specialized in backsplashes for kitchen countertops and other tile work that was quite artistic because she would construct a scene from different shaped and colored tiles. So, all of these women found ways to use their size and nimbleness to their advantage.

Alpine disposal has two women driving there bin trucks. I received one last month it was placed exactly where I showed her. She's in her 60s, but climbs up into that big truck like it's nothing. Quite fit.

When I look at various ways people can make a living in agriculture, I don't imagine women choosing to sling giant bales or cut giant redwoods. There's good money in microgreens and making sprouts, and all sorts of value-added food preparation. All of these things benefit from the quick hand speed enjoyed by smaller women. You take a 4-foot nothing woman from Thailand, and she's going to go to outperform a 200 lb man in producing microgreens, since this isn't a strength contest, its speed and endurance.

The Demolition and Salvage aspect of my job is highly physical, and most men can't perform to a standard that I find acceptable. But the gardening and homesteading part of my life seldom involves lifting more than 25 lb. My firewood is the size of my forearm or smaller, and my soil is super easy to dig, where I've improved it. I don't have any stallions or bulls that must be wrestled.

I've got some berries going and I'm thinking of turning a large area into a spot for growing autumn olives and goumi berries. Since first hatching this idea, I assumed that I would hire labor for harvest and that that labor would be mostly female, because of hand speed and dexterity when harvesting these delicate fruit. If I had a large watermelon operation, I think that the people gathering those onto the hay wagon, would be almost all male, because they are heavy.
 
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Paying somebody to do stuff isn't just about not being able to do it yourself.  Even when you're superman, there are many times when it makes more sense to pay somebody to do things you could do better, but... Wouldn't get to because you're doing stuff right now that's more important that only you can do. And there's _always_ "more important stuff".  It's a time thing. Life isn't infinite, the schedule may be a rubber band but it's going to snap eventually. Sometimes doing it (all) yourself, even if you could do each thing twice as fast as The Flash, isn't the right choice if, when looking at the big picture, you want to get something large and complex accomplished in _this_ life.

So it it looks to me like there's nothing unusual, inappropriate or even unfortunate about arranging with others to get something done. It's sorta required of all of us. Women are just luckier because they learn this fact of life early and get to practice flexibility and smarts while us men just grasshopper along, moving heavy objects and being proud, bushy-tailed and clueless... Until our back goes out. Then we get to play catch-up with those cunning females. <GG>

Rufus
 
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Bethany,
Don't give men that much credit. You can do anything you put your mind to. I am an a 59 year old man that has lived in Alaska for 40+ years.
I just bought 140 ac. with a 1950 log cabin that I'm fixing up. It's a LOT of hard work! I was able to afford an mini excavator which is a huge help.
The biggest thing I've learned is that ...doing it by yourself just takes longer. I have 2 daughters that I have never let play the "girl" card. They were raised in AK. But are busy with there families.

I am one year into this project, and not near as far along as I would like to be. But I have a Warm cozy place to stay for the winter.
My point being .... You can do this, you just need to figure out out many "man/woman" hours you can get your hands on & how many hour it will take.???
 
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Location: France, Burgundy, parc naturel Morvan
15
fish food preservation forest garden fungi homestead cooking solar trees wood heat woodworking
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Hiring locals is good as well, wood guy probably can't go designing whatever using autocad or trade on the internet. At the same time he's there he can have a look around and see that pink haired girl does amazing on many fronts, that she's got a lot done. You might even get the chance to talk about permaculture. That's a bonus. Maybe he wants to help you cut some trees on your land, so you can plant a food forest. He keeps half, you keep half, or whatevers reasonable to both of you. He might have excess to woodmulch or know somebody who is great at pruning or grafting. Maybe the two of you will fall in love and marry...
Women in asia do all the painting and rendering. In general i think women i worked with are neater and just give the work this beautiful touch. Men tend to flop things on and get more surface done. I rendered my house with my girlfriend at the time, her learning curve was amazing and her work looks lovely, mine was less appealing. So she did the bits that were more prominent in view.
 
Posts: 11
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I'm actually the only able-bodied person in my family. As a woman I have more than enough strength to accomplish any task that could be asked of me in terms of homesteading, especially since I am also a powerlifter. People always ask me if I plant all of my trees myself (amongst other things), or why I don't ask my boyfriend to help me. Quite simply, I am stronger for my body weight than he is for his, I have several times more endurance, and do not get injured as easily (these last two things are directly to do with being female). When it comes to learning a task that I am unfamiliar with, I just hit youtube and read tutorials. The "strength" of men is vastly overstated in importance, and often completely unnecessary. If you need to be able to bench 315 lbs to complete a task, you are doing that task incorrectly or inefficiently.
 
Dale Hodgins
gardener
Posts: 7564
Location: Victoria British Columbia-Canada
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I totally agree. I am quite strong but I almost never find a way to use that strength when just digging and planting. The only time my maximum energy is required, is if I'm trying to close a huge root ball or build a rock wall. But that's not even 5% of the things that need to be done. The vast majority of things just don't require huge strength. They require knowledge quite often, endurance.
.........
My friend from Thailand is 4 feet 11 and she's lightly built. Her father owned an elephant. It was sometimes her job starting when she was about 12 years old, to take the elephant up into the forest where other men from the village had cut trees. She would hook up the logs and then carefully lead the animal around obstacles. The men hiring her father's services carried long poles which were used to pry the log over obstacles and to clear the way of any large debris. She directed their actions. So, this very small girl had plenty of muscle power at her disposal.
 
gardener
Posts: 401
Location: SoCal USA
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bike cat dog tiny house trees
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While we each have varying amounts of spending cash to hire others to assist, we all have an absolute hard cap on available time per week, which is then reduced by jobs and family. So each person will come up with a value for their time, in a dollars per hour way. Having other permies nearby can convert the $/hr into a barter system as well, where you can even plan in advance for certain jobs to exchange. Then it's just a matter of available time.

I've always liked carrying logs and splitting wood, while I have no experience (yet) when it comes to preserving/canning food for example. I usually feel guilty if I'm not carrying some heavy load when others around me are due to my size. So I would think offering my time to do something I'm able to do and don't mind doing for a day in exchange for something I'm not able to do as well, or "for free" if it's an opportunity to socialize with other people now and then, seems like a deal.

It'll be another 4-5 years before I'm moved up to Stevens county and building, so for now if anyone in San Diego county would like help from a 6'6" guy (step stool upgrade included!) just let me know!
 
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