controls for mice, ideas brainstorm

First, I am blessed with a Bombay  cat who understands her job and is excellent at it.  She makes a point of showing me each mouse she catches. That said, not all cats are good mousers.

Take the time to determine the routes the mice take. Put the traps there.  I have a couple of areas that are off limits to my cat.  I have learned that I don't even have to bait the traps if I place them on the routes the mice normally follow.

Regarding cats:

At the Sustainable Food & Farming Conference, the owners of Singing Frog Farm recommended getting the most active and inquisitive cats at the shelter, the ones that really chase toys or track anything in the window. They also recommended keeping them a little underfed (I'd be careful about this), as they described rodents as "sustenance hunting", and birds as "sport hunting". They described their rodent to bird carcass ratio as hundreds of rodents to one bird. They figured they find about one bird per cat per year, and probably a rodent per day. I also hate the impact cats have on wild birds. however this approach does get at the main cause of bird population declines, that we feed cats that therefore do not decline in population along with their prey sources. I don't want anyone starving their cats, but it is better for them and the birds to keep them lean.

Spring has sprung. My garden is gorgeous. I had a problem with brown mice digging up buried compost a few months ago, set traps and got two (I know there are more, but that seemed to make them less visible for a while).
Today I went outside to look at a strange bird in the garden and I spotted a brown mouse nibbling on a ZUCCHINI! Not my sunflowers or the rabbit pellets but a zucchini on the plant. My rabbits won`t eat zucchini if I pay them, and these little..... sorry, anyway.
Going to put down traps. We have heavy cat and hawk pressure here, so I can see why they're not climbing up the (very exposed) sunflowers but rather staying under the mob planted zucchini. I'm having great results from crowd planting and heavy mulch in our current drought but not sure about how this is going to work out if I'm just creating a massive shady playground for rodents.
(bright side, I planted 25+ corn seed and it looks like they got zero. Also seedling planting has been much better this year, I moved the seedling station away from the house where I know they have some protection, now to reach my seedling flats they need to cross the dog's yard and climb up a table. So far, nobody has found that worth the risk.

Electrified "rabbit mesh" could solve the problem. I saw evidence of this with folks who had installed it to keep rabbits out - but placed a cat inside the mesh overnight for several weeks to get those "trapped" inside.

The first year they found they had trapped mice INSIDE the mesh, which very effectively excluded the cat, and the mice population exploded as they were safe from all but aerial predators.

Digging down at least 18 inches to preclude digging under, and enclosing the garden in a metal (roofing) fence also works great as it is unclimbable.

I haven’t seen this mentioned so I’ll add it. It could be a coincidence, but I noticed a big difference in the amount of mouse droppings in my garage right after I added a few big log piles in my food forests. There is no food in the garage so I figured they must just go in there to get out of the rain and wind. I rarely go into my garage so I don’t think I’ve scared them away. I didn’t patch any of the numerous entry points. Apparently they just find a pile of logs cozier than my drafty old garage.

I also have a Buddhist friend who claims that he was able to reason his mice into leaving. He simply asked them nicely to find somewhere else to live, gave them 3 days notice, and they left. Go figure.

ive never had any luck with the store bought spring traps. i have had success with the live traps and with the 5 gallon bucket with a roller  and peanut butter. if i find a nest i let the chickens take care of them all.

I know people constantly struggle with removing mice. I fought them in a double wide trailer for years, and have moved to a 200 year old farm house and I am battling them here.

The biggest key is exclusion. Keep them out in the first place. This is most often suggested, and extremely hard when you have a field stone foundation. But closing holes you find can only help. Most people have things planted close to their foundation. I do too, but it provides good shelter for mice, and if you are serious about getting rid of mice or other rodents, you need an open area around your house (probably 2-3 feet of bare ground, maybe rock before they get to your house. Rodents don't like open spaces if they don't have to, but as with many things, they will do it if they have a good enough reason to. A reason like a kitchen with lots of crumbs.

Second is planning ahead. Do some research. Yes it means you will have the rodents in your house for longer, but in the long run it may actually be shorter if you know where they are coming from and where they like to go. Rodents by nature are timid. A method suggested by exterminators is to set out a lot of traps that are not set. First, a lot of traps at the beginning works much better than a couple traps for weeks. I use those cheap wooden snap traps which are inexpensive and get a dozen or 20 of them at a time. Use gloves always to avoid putting scent on a new trap, and wash re-used traps. Bait them and then place them without setting the trap. Keep an eye on them. If you see some bait is gone, replace it, and again do not set the trap. Once some bait is being eaten a couple nights in a row, you know where the mice are. Once the mice get into the habit eating in the same place without anything happening (and maybe tell their friends about it), then you set the traps. The mice will come up carelessly as they have gotten used to a free meal without anything happening. A careless mouse will trigger the trap way more often than one that is seeing the trap for the first time.

In regards to scent based deterrents, these have two ways they work. First any strong scent, but particularly the ones you can find listed online (peppermint, dryer sheets, mothballs, and many more) will make an animal less comfortable. If you walk into a bathroom with a toilet that has been backed up for a few days and has not been cleaned, you don't really want to stay in that room. The concept for mice is the same, the scent is repulsive to them, and it should make them want to leave. I have found it simply makes them a little less comfortable. Most of those smells go away fairly quickly, and you can get used to a smell or deal with it, if its important enough. If the mouse thinks the food is worth putting up with the smell, then it will. The second way scent based detterents help is by masking the scents used to lay down trails. Mice leave behind pee, poop, oils, and other scents when they run back and forth on the trails. You could kill everyone mouse in your house, and if you do not clean the trails, another mouse going by will smell that a mouse has used that trail before, assume there is something good inside, and follow that trail inside. A strong scent can help mask that smell and make it less likely for more mice to follow the same trail.

It is that time of year where little woodland creatures are trying to find a warm home for the winter.

My 1850's homestead has cracks and crevices to the outside which mice (and most recently a vole) have used to access the house. One of the earliest lessons my wife and I learned as a couple is that foodstuffs can't be put into spaces that critters can easily get into. I remember a bag of something edible getting put into a crawlspace box and the next time we went to retrieve something from the box it was occupied by the remnants of a visiting mouse.

My main focus when it comes to pest 'control' is to deny them access. Closing up gaps, especially between my foundation and house has helped tremendously. There are still a few hard to reach spots I need to get to, but I have found that I'm not battling as many pests in the fall as I have in the past. I then focus on removing foodstuff that the critters might find attractive.

The other day I noticed that the dog bowl that sat on the ground was being visited by a vole every few minutes as I sat in a chair and tried to figure out what a sound was. The quick solution was to raise the bowl up so it wasn't as easy to get to. So far, so good! I have figured out the pathway that the vole took in my kitchen and identified a previously unknown opening that will be fixed here in short order.

Timothy Norton wrote:It is that time of year where little woodland creatures are trying to find a warm home for the winter.

What I've been known to refer to as: "Denial of Service." Unfortunately, one of my worst situations is what was supposed to be "temporary bird housing" that became permanent.  I can't suggest doing things right from the beginning with enough emphasis! "This is just a shed, the foundation doesn't matter" changes fast when a skunk decides it's big enough under there to be a den.

Check out the YouTube videos. using baking soda to kill mice rats and squirrels.  They bloat up from the soda and can't expel it from their system. It is pet friendly as your pets or other predictors will not affected like other poisons.

BAKING SODA: Ultimate Pest Control For FLEAS, MICE, RATS, COCKROACHES, ANTS, BEDBUGS, CENTIPEDES

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM-nxb9c9uU

Mice don’t like strong odors like peppermint oil. I put some on cotton balls. Non-toxic near your food. It evaporates so you may need to frequently do this until things stay frozen and they stop thinking your cozy place is a great place for the winter. Voles eat green grass. If you can find it, put piles outside.

One way that also can work very well is cooperation. There is a layer where the mice can "understand" us - and when we are willing to respect them as part of the circle of life and maybe even offer some nuts outside the house one can let them know to move out - and it works. We have a lot of experience in cooperation with rats - so, in case you are interested we also can have a call? Greetings from Portugal! Barbara

If your grandma shot down the only sensible option (a cat), she should get the job of catching the mice herself. Please take a video. I'd love to watch it.

The presence of our cat seems to keep our mouse problem to the individual visitor, few and far between. Our primary strategy is direct capture (and release), coupled with denial of access to food specifically. The front door is often open for the cat, so they'll sometimes wander in (and sometimes get brought in by said cat).

In terms of food, store things off the ground and ensure food cupboards close well and don't have gaps open to under/behind. We've previously stored rice under cupboards (bad plan), and once had a cupboard back damaged providing access to the very safe behind-cupboard void. Saw a mouse just chilling in our bag of flour one time!

Did a walk-around with a pest controller at a food factory once, and they told me mice can squeeze through a small gap - if you can pass a pen through it, a mouse can squeeze through. I've also found that at least some mice can really jump, so carrying them in an open bucket will just result in flying mouse.

For catch and release, we've got a small piece of extension tube for our vacuum, which is used to connect the corner nozzle, that long thing that tapers to a flat point. We've found that when cornered and illuminated, mice will generally be open to climbing into the open end of the nozzle. I speculate this is because it's dark (safe) and sufficiently roomy for the mice we get and they can see the gap at the other end so they don't consider it a dead end or feel trapped. Once inside it's a simple task of stopping both ends (not that I've ever had a mouse try to leave voluntarily) and carrying it to a hedge. Dislodge mouse by shaking, removing the nozzle from the extension if necessary.

David Huang wrote:One of the best easy set mouse traps I use is the Intruder brand  "The Better Mousetrap" (this is an affiliate link where I'd earn a small commission for qualifying sales)  
I have another easy set trap that I bought at one of those big box home improvement stores over a decade ago.  It is always set and has never once in all these years caught or even been triggered by a mouse.  Something about it causes my mice to avoid it like the plague.  For the past several years I've had it set literally side by side with one of The Better Mousetrap type and I will still only catch the mice in the Better brand one.  I will say the Better Mousetrap ones don't always catch them when triggered, but I have a pretty high catch rate.  After enough years the spring involved can start to get a bit weaker too it seems.  I just bought a new 6 pack of them and reading the literature included they noted you can reposition the spring so it's springing on a fresh spot.  I need to try that.

The one thing I haven't seen anyone directly mention here yet is the importance of mousetrap placement.  I rarely even bait my traps anymore as I'm not looking to attract them.  I just place them along places I know the mice will travel.  Mice don't like going out into open areas.  This isn't to say they won't ever do this, but their strong preference is to run along walls, behind furniture, etc.  They want more protected places they can remain more hidden in.  Right now I  have most of my mouse entry points found and closed up with steel wool (I've been told they can't/won't chew through that), however there is a spot they come in either behind or under my furnace where I can't access without pulling the appliance out.  The way things are set up this leaves two channels to either side of the furnace that they will travel out to try and become free range mice in the house.  I have my traps placed there with the trap pinching side facing and placed right up to the wall.  The mice just run right into it over and over, snap and trap!  When I do get free range house mice I again will access the layout and try to think like a mouse seeking cover and protection.  Then I will place my traps in those pathways and I catch them quickly 90% of the time.

I agree!!!
I would add some outdoor cats to keep the vermin population down outside so they don’t have a chance to come inside.
Good luck!

Barbara Kovats’ remark, "One way that also can work very well is cooperation” made me smile.  It reflects, after all, what we strive for, hope for, and employ permaculture to achieve.

But I must confess that all of my yin yang, beautiful interconnectedness, intricate holism, everything-has-its-place-in-the-world ideas go right out the window when it comes to mice. I have repaired enough mouse-chewed wiring, replaced enough mouse urine corroded parts, cleaned enough mouse-induced odors of death and decay from machines and living quarters to bring the most holistic of practitioners to mental ruin. I can only justify my heresy by pointing out (with a degree of distressed admiration) that hardly any other creature so effectively punches above its weight class, and that the mouse’s ability to reproduce, infiltrate, and destroy is so exquisitely magnificent that it’s all I can do to not assign malevolence as their motive.

A year ago I began shifting resources to focus on everything murine: Searched out and plugged holes, employed every natural(ish) repellent I could find from peppermint oil to electronics, encouraged cats, and trapped trapped trapped. At risk of jinxing myself, I think I can say now that I’ve succeeded. We have been free of identifiable mouse sign and damage for several months, which is especially wonderful to say now that autumn is here.

I believe, looking back on various successes and failures, finding and filling holes has been the most effective deterrent. It’s a challenge of course—identifying access points is a tedious job—but I am completely and splendidly happy that I went to the trouble.

For giggles, I’ve attached a picture of one of my failures. It’s a bag of purchased mouse repellent—one of those mousey malodorous things—that the buggers used as nesting material, and may even have eaten.

May the little devils never darken my door again.

The most reliable repellent that I have found is burnt hair/fur, the smell of which most animals and insects will go out of their way to avoid. Burnt hair specifically smells of burnt protein, which is a concrete warning to creatures that one or more of them was consumed by fire. They instinctively avoid this smell, unless they have absolutely no other choice.

I had a family of rats move into my garage attic, so I put some hair clippings in an aluminum pie pan, placed it in the attic, and with the proper safety precautions, as hair burns quite quickly, lit the hair on fire. Within minutes I could hear the rats scrabbling, and by that evening they had moved out. I left the pan with its ashes in place, and never had animals try to nest there again.

This works similarly with wasps. If you knock their nest down, they will just rebuild. But if you light their nest on fire, and leave the charred stump. They will move to an entirely separate structure, to avoid such apocalypses.

Great read for our second cold fall morning.

I also think cats are best for catching mice, and have had a fair amount of experience with mice and cats, but am without cats temporarily.

I love the idea of using traps to get the mice used to them!  

As for plugging holes, I have had great luck with those pot scrubbers that are made of curly metal…. A non rusting reusable substitute for steel wool.

I just came in from feeding my two young sheep.  In their water bucket I saw a mouse frozen into the 3/4 inch of ice.  That’s a new one for me.

I have been catching a lot of mice in this 50 year old mobile home I just bought (on a gorgeous 6 acres with a bit of irrigation water).

An old mobile home is another situation where it’s unlikely that all the mouse entries will ever be plugged.  I had a guy come to level it…. He said it’s 3 inches off level in just a 24 foot run, and it will have to wait for spring.  Moving it 3 inches in a few hours would break a lot of things much needed in a cold winter, not to mention opening new mouse routes.

The traps I use are easy to set, they are built along the lines of a wide plastic clothespin, with a little catch…

I never find one sprung without a mouse in it.

I use peanut butter for bait.  I find that if the trap has been baited for a few days, if I renew the bait, I catch another mouse.  From this I conclude that peanut butter off gases, and eventually the fragrance wears out.

I eat organic all peanut unhomogenized peanut butter.  I have been thinking about getting a conventional type for the mice.  I would have done so already but when I go to town I forget.

In the oil trap, I am thinking the guy caught so many because he used peanut oil.  I think it was the fragrance that drew them in.

I wonder if anyone knows of another food that is as fragrant as peanuts, and if anyone can answer whether the other kind of peanut butter, like Jif or Skippy is good mouse bait.

I am skeptical about the baking soda idea.  I would love to hear if anyone tries it.

We live in a converted barn - an ancient stone built structure with our timber-frame heavily insulated structure inside. We've pointed all the stone walls inside and out. Somehow mice still get in! We've had a plague of them this year but the trusty "Selfset" metal snap traps work very well. I put a cut-down cardboard box over them so they have to put their head on the block, so to speak. I've only had one that didn't get killed instantly and a couple have managed to get the bait without setting off the trap. Somehow! I use sultanas or raisins as bait, making sure the fruit is pressed well onto the bait spike. We've caught dozens this summer, the only drawback being it's one a night. We've never had the bait taken from around the dead mouse though, and never cleaned the trap between catches so I think the alluring smell of the raisins draws them in.
We have a kind of sauna (the Bath House) in the garden, by the river, and a few weeks ago my wife left the water in the bath, forgetting to empty it when we went away for a week. When we came back there were 10 dead mice drowned in there but they were still coming in the house. We also have two semi-feral cats who live outside as well as five cats next door but the mice kept coming. And Tawny Owls who have reared a couple of chicks this year. No mice in the trap for the last week so hopefully the population has been thinned out somewhat.
A few years ago we were staying in a friends caravan that had mice scurrying around at night. We visited the local hardware store and all they had were the sticky sheets. I had to get up the middle of the night to dispose of the poor critter stuck there. A horrible job. The live traps are OK but it is really important to empty them very promptly or the mice die a slow unpleasant death. The Selfset traps are very effective and, I've found, quite humane.
P.S. We have trained our cats to leave birds alone by using a powerful water pistol. Every time we saw them in hunting mode, watching the birds, we'd growl at them and give them a squirt of water, which they hate. It has been very successful. It also keeps next door's cats away too.

On the matter of dealing with them in the house until you catch them, I moved into a singlewide on a farm many years back. We found "deposits" in the silverware drawer.

Unlike the owner, we were not content to just blow the silverware off.

I acquired some paneling and added sides that went all the way from the floor to ceiling of every set of lower cabinet drawers. I made sure all toes kicks were well covered. And I made sure all doors closed tightly. We never had a problem with mice in the lower cabinets after that.

The trailer was one great big mouse run. It had large holes around the furnace, where I'd, often, catch three mice a day. The panel had holes and so on and so on.  It seemed, for every hole I plugged, there were a couple more waiting to be found.

On sealing the house from critters, door gaskets are a biggie.  All the little beasts need is, 1/4".  I watched one run up the shop concrete block wall, then squeeze through the tiny gap between the stovepipe and the blocks.

That was not the first or last time I improved a landlord's property on my own dime and time, because it benefited me greatly to do so.  Another place got several hundreds of dollars worth of insulation in the attic. With utility bills ranging between $300.00 and $500.00 per month, it just seemed a solid plan.  Then there was the one on the Pacific Northwet beaches got a shop roof, an enclosed basement (a warmer house, more living space and less weasel and rat access by way of swapping out the huge sliding door for a thermopane window and custom door), new stairs, etc.

On that latter one, after the landlord saw the place, he rambled about how he could raise the rent. I told him he could, but he wouldn't be getting it from me anymore and, from then on, he'd have to pay for repairs and improvements.  I did move. Wonder if he figured out he was an idiot?

I skimmed the posts and didn't see anybody mention ultrasonic pest repellants. My dad tried them at our cabin and didn't have any luck, but that was years ago. I'm wondering if they've improved.

Randy Eggert wrote:I skimmed the posts and didn't see anybody mention ultrasonic pest repellants. My dad tried them at our cabin and didn't have any luck, but that was years ago. I'm wondering if they've improved.

My experience with the sound repellents is much the same as with scent based repellents. They only work for a little while and they only work if the mouse doesn't really care about that area. They can get used to sounds and scents if they are hungry enough.

Get a5 gallon bucket or tall garbage can..
Make holes in both centers of ends of a coffee can, medium ones work well... Put a pole all the way thru can so it sticks out evenly in both ends... Spread peanut butter evenly around center of can...Put 4 clips on edge of bucket/garbage can, and place rolling pole, with coffee can in center, with enough room to allow it to roll completely over, just so as it doesn't roll off,, put about an inch of water at the bottom of 5 gallon bucket, because yes some mice can jump that high.. Place bucket where mice are able to get on ends of poles, but where it won't block poles from rolling,,,
Works the best of anything IV tried... Just make sure ya refill there peanut butter evenly around so the worthy doesn't keep it from rolling em into bucket, and empty move into garbage cuz they stink fast..

Timothy Norton wrote:It is that time of year where little woodland creatures are trying to find a warm home for the winter.

My 1850's homestead has cracks and crevices to the outside which mice (and most recently a vole) have used to access the house.

Last fall, after I completed my yurt and started sleeping in it, I frequently had dreams of Lilliputians climbing all over my body. One morning I woke up to see a little vole staring down at me from the quilt-ridge of my arm. That day I spread Diatomaceous Earth around the perimeter of the yurt floor. I have not seen a single vole in here since, scurrying or trapped.

A few weeks later, mice did start showing up. I started setting the old-fashioned wooden spring traps around the doors and kitchen area (most of the perimeter has hardware cloth buried and running up under the wall canvas). I bait with peanut butter and catch them regularly when they come in waves, have had no sign of them exploring anywhere beyond the traps. I replace the PB when it shows signs of mould, but otherwise they seem happy with it regardless of it's age. Almost all of my food is in plastic bins and glass jars when not in use, but I never worry about crumbs or the compost bucket being exposed.

Kelly Craig wrote:On the matter of dealing with them in the house until you catch them, I moved into a singlewide on a farm many years back. We found "deposits" in the silverware drawer.

Unlike the owner, we were not content to just blow the silverware off.

I acquired some paneling and added sides that went all the way from the floor to ceiling of every set of lower cabinet drawers. I made sure all toes kicks were well covered. And I made sure all doors closed tightly. We never had a problem with mice in the lower cabinets after that.

The trailer was one great big mouse run. It had large holes around the furnace, where I'd, often, catch three mice a day. The panel had holes and so on and so on.  It seemed, for every hole I plugged, there were a couple more waiting to be found.

On sealing the house from critters, door gaskets are a biggie.  All the little beasts need is, 1/4".  I watched one run up the shop concrete block wall, then squeeze through the tiny gap between the stovepipe and the blocks.

That was not the first or last time I improved a landlord's property on my own dime and time, because it benefited me greatly to do so.  Another place got several hundreds of dollars worth of insulation in the attic. With utility bills ranging between $300.00 and $500.00 per month, it just seemed a solid plan.  Then there was the one on the Pacific Northwet beaches got a shop roof, an enclosed basement (a warmer house, more living space and less weasel and rat access by way of swapping out the huge sliding door for a thermopane window and custom door), new stairs, etc.

On that latter one, after the landlord saw the place, he rambled about how he could raise the rent. I told him he could, but he wouldn't be getting it from me anymore and, from then on, he'd have to pay for repairs and improvements.  I did move. Wonder if he figured out he was an idiot?

In my days as a landlord, I would lower the rent, or maintain it below market for a good renter.

That guy was an idiot!  A good renter is like money in the bank, even if they are asking the owner to pay for the improvements.

Flora Eerschay wrote:Cats are not good because they kill little birds. But you can build a house for a barn owl!

Owls kill birds too.  Just ask my little hen who got snatched out of a lilac bush one evening, and her young rooster buddy who was traumatized for days afterward.  The cats I've had seem to get along OK with grown chickens, although it is true they will kill smaller birds.  But since we have hordes of sparrows which happily eat chicken feed while the chickens ignore them, that's OK here too.  If all we had were pretty songbirds who turn up their beaks at chicken feed, I might feel differently.  Our cats leave the humming birds alone, but I don't put out sugar water feeders, just plant native species of flowers for them in an area with closely spaced plantings for them and the butterflies.

So I vote cats for mouse issues.  The wind up multi-catch mouse traps strategically placed on mouse highways also work, and are not as dangerous to cats or dogs as the snap traps.  

I spotted a mouse in our pantry room yesterday afternoon, and since I'd seen the thread post about mice in the Daily-ish, I dove in.
Thank you community for crowd brainstorming!
In the past we've only had so-so results with a live-catch-mousetrap. I now think it's because a trapped mouse probably peed stress feromones on the wooden base of the trap and the odour stuck (an old fashioned trap that came with the house).
The only efficient method, in my opinion, is a cat.
After I had spent an afternoon worrying and doing internet searching on traps, our cat entered the pantry room in the early evening, immediately spotted the mouse, caught it and carried it outside (she's trained to eat her prey outside) - entry to carrying out, all under a minute.
We also have chicken and roosters. Sometimes we let a broody hen hatch a batch of chicks. The cat knows - again, training/telepathy communication - to leave the chicks alone.
My vote goest to the cat-helpers!

BACK TO THE STOPPING THE PROBLEM BEFORE IT'S A PROBLEM:

(1) When sealing holes critters can use to enter a structure, it's a good idea to embed METAL screen of some type in the mix. Some say steel wood will do the trick. I don't know if that is true, but it can't be fun to chew on.

(2) Tread plates can be easy to install. I've used them under bathroom doors when a client wanted me to soundproof THE room just off a meeting area.

Treadplates go a long ways toward mouse and crawly thing proofing a room.

Just keep in mind, some doors have gaps to allow air transfer between the room and furnace or HVAC return vent.  You may have to move the vent area. That can be done by, for example, installing vent covers on both sides of the door, over a hole you cut in it for venting purposes.

Over time, you may have to swap out the gaskets on the plate or door to maintain the seal.

To avoid the seal issue, just installing a treadplate with only 1/8" gap may be adequate to avoid the need for one, while still keeping the larger critters out.