Keto forum

I would like to humbly request that there be added a forum under the Kitchen category for Keto or low carb.

There are dozens of directly-related or tangentially-related threads which are scattered throughout the forums which could be consolidated into one forum, including these following:

https://permies.com/t/73817/kitchen/Experience-Eating-Plants-aka-Carb

https://permies.com/t/85425/kitchen/Awesome-documentary-Magic-Pill

https://permies.com/t/54024/kitchen/Carbs-fats

https://permies.com/t/40/42810/kitchen/Ketogenic-Diet

https://permies.com/t/2322/kitchen/people-eat-grain

https://permies.com/t/112579/kitchen/Paleo-weight-loss

https://permies.com/t/47736/kitchen/benefits-apple-cider-vinegar

https://permies.com/t/16495/kitchen/Avoid-Wheat

https://permies.com/t/16595/kitchen/Gaining-weight-WAPF

https://permies.com/t/101105/kitchen/Fasting-find-easier-eat-eat

https://permies.com/t/82813/kitchen/Medicatication-Cart

https://permies.com/t/65042/kitchen/Vegan-Cheese-Ketogenic-Diet

https://permies.com/t/62260/Carb-Temperate-Climate-Perennials-keto

https://permies.com/t/53367/kitchen/grass-fed-butter-coffee

https://permies.com/t/47669/kitchen/Paleo-Diet-Permaculture-Diet

https://permies.com/t/32387/kitchen/minded-Paleo-Ketogenic-regime-people

https://permies.com/t/6122/kitchen/Tooth-decay-reversal-diet

https://permies.com/t/32894/kitchen/Bulletproof-Coffee

https://permies.com/t/15708/kitchen/paleo-health-weight-loss

https://permies.com/t/26067/kitchen/Diet-Delusion-Gary-Taubes-application

https://permies.com/t/40/13539/kitchen/Paleo-diet

https://permies.com/t/13496/kitchen/butter-margarine

https://permies.com/t/16746/kitchen/TedX-lecture-paleo-MS-parkinsons

https://permies.com/t/8160/paleo-diet

https://permies.com/t/13539/kitchen/Paleo-diet

https://permies.com/t/6100/kitchen/Questions-eating-Paleo

https://permies.com/t/107743/kitchen/Candida-Advice

https://permies.com/t/72810/kitchen/Gout-blood-type-relationship-gallstone

https://permies.com/t/2254/kitchen/good-lard-health-food

https://permies.com/t/9023/kitchen/Super-Size-Fat-Head-talk

https://permies.com/t/2957/kitchen/bacon-cholesterol

https://permies.com/t/2290/CNN-Commentary-fat-tax-healthy

https://permies.com/t/20494/critters/Grassfed-Beef-Save-World-Chris

https://permies.com/t/111617/kitchen/Insulin-Ketones-Glucagon

https://permies.com/t/4256/kitchen/eating-properly-prediabetes

https://permies.com/t/71208/kitchen/Grumpy-gut-cooking-Seeking-resources

https://permies.com/t/57364/Herbal-Diabetic-Medicine


Really this is just a preliminary list from two keyword searches, Ketogenic and Ketosis. There are plenty of other related keywords I could try such as "Low Carb", "High Fat", LCHF, HFLC, "Carnivore diet" as well as the names of several prominent doctors, dieticians and nutritionists, or authors, or the names of documentary movies such as The Magic Pill or Fathead.

 But I think the point is made, there are dozens, perhaps even hundreds of relevant threads throughout Permies that are related to the ketogenic diet specifically, or threads related to diabetes or cholesterol or some other related topic where people mention keto as a solution, and even relevant threads where the words keto, ketogenic, ketosis, etc. don't appear. I was surprised to discover in searching for these words how many threads were even started by Paul or Jocelyn.

I'd love a keto forum. Can we please make this happen?

Hey Chad, nice work! I will be discussing this with other moderators and if the general consensus is an approval, I will get back with you here in this thread.

Oh, that's a lot of threads.  Nice homework!

The questions we ask before making a new forum:

Is there a forum this topic would fit?  

Well, let's see.  This is what Kitchen looks like right now.

food preservation
fermentation
food as medicine
medicinal herbs
cooking
vegan
paleo
food choices
bread
charcuterie
cheese

Is there a forum that would fit this topic with just a little bit of change to the forum description or name?

Food choices and paleo, food as medicine all seem close.

Do we have 50 existing threads that can call this new forum primary? And if we did that, would it leave another forum empty (if this second bit, go back to the last step)?

Do we have another 50 threads that can call this new forum secondary?  

If it passes these requirements, do we have a staff member willing to volunteer to make the new forum?

I think it will probably pass as this is a very hot topic right now and bound to give us lots of googlelove, but it's good to go through the checklist.

How does Keto differ from Paleo?

Tyler Ludens wrote:How does Keto differ from Paleo?

That's a good question.

I was going to say "the description on the paleo forum says..." but we don't have a description.  That needs fixing.  

Tyler Ludens wrote:How does Keto differ from Paleo?

My brother does Keto, and he eats meat and only meat. Beef, pork, chicken, but mostly beef. He'll have steak for breakfast, hamburger patties for lunch, maybe steak with a side of sausage or hamburger again for supper. Every day. no bread, no veggies, no fruit, no dairy. Meat and water. He sticks to it 99%. For example, the day his son graduated high school, we had lunch together and he ate a cheeseburger with all the fixins, bun included. He's been mixing it up lately, smoking meat instead of it being just grilled.

I think paleo is anything paleolithic peoples would have had available to eat, like a hunter/gatherer diet. Meat, berries, fish, eggs, fruit & veggies etc. but that varies by a paleolithic persons geographic location.

Tyler Ludens wrote:How does Keto differ from Paleo?

As I explained here:
https://permies.com/t/119210/kitchen/Ketogenic-Diet-explained

The defining characteristic of a Keto diet is ketosis. The Paleo diet can be a Keto diet as well, if it involves a state of ketosis. Likewise, a vegan diet can be Keto, as can a purely carnivorous diet.

Ketosis is the state in which your body can not find any carbs with which to make glucose, which triggers the liver to produce ketone bodies in order to convert fat cells into energy.

r ranson wrote:Oh, that's a lot of threads.  Nice homework!

The questions we ask before making a new forum:

Is there a forum this topic would fit?  

Well, let's see.  This is what Kitchen looks like right now.

food preservation
fermentation
food as medicine
medicinal herbs
cooking
vegan
paleo
food choices
bread
charcuterie
cheese

Is there a forum that would fit this topic with just a little bit of change to the forum description or name?

Food choices and paleo, food as medicine all seem close.

Do we have 50 existing threads that can call this new forum primary? And if we did that, would it leave another forum empty (if this second bit, go back to the last step)?

Do we have another 50 threads that can call this new forum secondary?  

If it passes these requirements, do we have a staff member willing to volunteer to make the new forum?

I think it will probably pass as this is a very hot topic right now and bound to give us lots of googlelove, but it's good to go through the checklist.

Because Keto as I defined it above is not its own diet, but rather a classification into which other diets fit, there are plenty of threads in the paleo forum, the vegan forum, the food as medicine forum, the food choices forum, and several others which could be cross-pollinated with a Keto Forum. It’s kind of iconoclastic and doesn’t really submit itself into other forums,  although threads from other forums could submit themselves under Keto.

As I wrote, those I listed are only a few I found from only two keyword searches, I know there are many more, perhaps even hundreds more. Consider, for example, the close correlation between Keto and intermittent fasting. That is a term I expect to find in many threads.

Here is the next batch of keto-related links:

https://permies.com/t/98504/kitchen/food-medicine-resource

https://permies.com/t/29066/critters/intermittent-fasting-cattle

https://permies.com/t/40/15708/kitchen/paleo-health-weight-loss

https://permies.com/t/12522/Wheat-Murder

https://permies.com/t/11298/kitchen/Raw-Permies

https://permies.com/t/40623/kitchen/Sweden-carb

https://permies.com/t/41498/kitchen/Suficiency-stapple-food-products-greens

https://permies.com/t/53202/kitchen/Chocolate-Cheese

https://permies.com/t/39079/kitchen/lion-mane-mushrooms-brain-health

https://permies.com/wiki/1453/kitchen/Omnivore-Dilemma-Michael-Pollan

https://permies.com/t/56996/Minimal-diet-deficiencies

https://permies.com/t/6530/kitchen/Raw-Food-Veganism-Calorie-Restriction

https://permies.com/t/41466/kitchen/MyPyramid-MyPlate

https://permies.com/t/18869/kitchen/weird-carnivore-diet

https://permies.com/t/71454/kitchen/Uncured-Bacon-Hams

https://permies.com/t/30384/Carnivores-Vegetarians-Friends

https://permies.com/t/9306/kitchen/Lard-stays-liquid

https://permies.com/t/10410/kitchen/Forks-Knives-Film

https://permies.com/t/43635/Cooking-oil

https://permies.com/t/19792/Podcast-Review-movies-Supersize-Fathead

https://permies.com/t/120/6848/Food-year

https://permies.com/t/98112/kitchen/Processed-meats-including-bacon-cancer

https://permies.com/t/22693/kitchen/Paleofantasy

https://permies.com/t/13673/kitchen/suggest-healthy-organic-family-meals

https://permies.com/t/40/35660/kitchen/rid-Candida

https://permies.com/t/90047/personal-care/purity/Cream-Cheese-Issues

https://permies.com/t/9070/kitchen/Diabetes-cure

https://permies.com/t/68231/kitchen/Video-obesity-crisis

https://permies.com/t/49588/kitchen/Dale-Fat-Farm

https://permies.com/t/9159/critters/eggs-man-year

good research.

That leaves us with two questions still to go.

If we populate the new forum, would it leave another forum empty? I'm a bit worried about paleo.  

Do we have a staff member willing to volunteer to make the new forum?

I'm not sure of the forum architecture or the mechanics involved in creating a new forum.

Presumably the easiest thing would be to simply migrate old threads from one forum to another.

There is a lot of overlap in what I found related to keto and paleo, but a large majority of the threads I linked to are not from the paleo forum, and of those which ARE in the paleo forum (about 12 total), about half of them had the word Keto/ketogenic in the title. Perhaps we could simply cross-pollinate the remaining links so as to not depopulate the paleo forum by even one post.

Chad Sentman wrote:

Presumably the easiest thing would be to simply migrate old threads from one forum to another.

It's actually really complex.  Each thread has to be assessed individually and chosen if it is going to be primary or secondary in that forum, then the old forums need to be considered so they don't get empty which will drain googlelove (SEO value) from the entire site.

and more stuff that isn't publically known.

It will take a staff member about 8 hours of their time and it has to be done within a 24 hour period.  

The more threads you can find and post the links to here, the easier it is for the staff member.  It would also help if you posted a list of keywords that they can use in their journey.  

I think the forum is a good idea, but if we don't follow procedure, then it will get negative googlelove which is really hard to undo.

Keywords I used to find these threads:

Keto
Ketogenic
Ketosis
Ketones
Ketone bodies
"Low carb" AND "high fat" -Boolean
LCHF
HFLC
Intermittent Fasting
Insulin resistance
Fathead
Fat head
Jason Fung
William Davis
Wheat belly
Carnivore diet
Magic pill
Marks daily apple
Marksdailyapple
"Coconut oil" AND MCT
Eric Berg
Eric Westman
Gary Taubes
Robb Wolf
Peter Attia
Sarah Hallberg
Jeff Volek
Stephen Phinney
Terry Wahl
Epilepsy diet
Diabetes diet fat carb
Obesity diet fat carb
Overweight diet fat carb
Weight loss diet fat carb
Lose weight diet fat carb

As I go through the keywords, I will edit that post, and post new links here:

https://permies.com/t/40/74876/adaptation-human-diet-years-stagnation

https://permies.com/t/57364/Herbal-Diabetic-Medicine

https://permies.com/t/39449/kitchen/DNA-Conundrum

https://permies.com/t/6913/kitchen/Nutrition-carbs

https://permies.com/t/4256/kitchen/eating-properly-prediabetes

https://permies.com/t/10884/kitchen/Permaculture-meets-Paleo

https://permies.com/t/16680/kitchen/Inflammation-Control

https://permies.com/t/36681/kitchen/advise-paleo-friends

https://permies.com/t/6100/kitchen/Questions-eating-Paleo

https://permies.com/t/43942/kitchen/Importance-eating-workout

https://permies.com/t/61737/Breaking-habits-healthy

https://permies.com/t/46937/kitchen/Seeking-foods-heal-nerve-spinal

https://permies.com/t/54532/Medical-costs

https://permies.com/t/45167/kitchen/Paleo-diet-stratospheric-triglycerides

https://permies.com/t/17037/kitchen/Inflammation-heart-disease-diet

https://permies.com/t/8057/kitchen/Auto-Immune-Disease

https://permies.com/t/42079/kitchen/learn-eat-healthy

https://permies.com/t/44256/kitchen/pemmican-ultimate-survival-food

https://permies.com/t/18083/kitchen/Common-points-paleo-GAPS-Wahls

https://permies.com/t/2291/Vegetarian-Myth-Lierre-Keith

https://permies.com/t/106771/kitchen/weren-pioneer-homesteaders-obese

https://permies.com/t/53406/kitchen/eggs-staple-food

https://permies.com/t/40/72005/kitchen/Curing-Cancer

Hey Chad, great work finding threads that could work for the forum and we appreciate the time you're volunteering to find these threads!

Your enthusiasm and time are indeed valued, but let's please pause right here, and here's why. While I have approached other moderators about a new keto forum, a go ahead approval has not been reached. Before you donate more of your time finding threads, let's allow a little more time for other moderators to review this idea of a new forum. I would feel bad if you spent a lot of time finding threads and making these lists for us only to have it not approved for some reason. I or other moderators will get back with you in this thread.

My gut feeling is that, while this is an interesting topic and important to many people, it isn't really about permaculture.

Michael Cox wrote:My gut feeling is that, while this is an interesting topic and important to many people, it isn't really about permaculture.

I agree, it has little if anything to do with permanent agriculture. But Permies is homesteading & permaculture, all the time. It is the homesteading part where, I believe, this falls into place. Permies has many forums that may not fit into Holmgren & Mollisons definition of permanent agriculture. But homesteading encompasses so much more, and there may be a homesteader out there who raises their own cattle for freezer beef so they can keep their body in a state of ketosis with beef they raise on their homestead.

James Freyr wrote:Hey Chad, great work finding threads that could work for the forum and we appreciate the time you're volunteering to find these threads!

Your enthusiasm and time are indeed valued, but let's please pause right here, and here's why. While I have approached other moderators about a new keto forum, a go ahead approval has not been reached. Before you donate more of your time finding threads, let's allow a little more time for other moderators to review this idea of a new forum. I would feel bad if you spent a lot of time finding threads and making these lists for us only to have it not approved for some reason. I or other moderators will get back with you in this thread.

Fair enough.

No need to feel bad on my account, however it works out. I have enjoyed this process. Over a two day span, I have identified 91 unique threads that deal directly or indirectly with the keto way of eating. If, in the end, it doesn't result in a new forum, I'm sure it will still be quite a useful resource for someone looking for information and not knowing where to even begin looking. These threads are scattered all over the forums, and if no further work is done to collect them into their own forum, I have nevertheless successfully brought them all together into their own thread.

Michael Cox wrote:My gut feeling is that, while this is an interesting topic and important to many people, it isn't really about permaculture.

Permaculture is about all aspects of our life.

Diet is a huge part of the human's daily life.  

You can customize which forums show up in your feed so if you don't have an interest in some areas, they won't show up.  

There are a number of topics: Keto, Paleo, Carnivore, etc. that fit under a larger umbrella of "low carb diets".  They all share at least one goal of improving heath by reducing the amount of carbohydrates we consume to varying degrees.  I would suggest combining all of these under a "low carb diets"  forum.

I would like to put my 2 cents worth in.  I have been diabetic for 42 years, or at least I will always be considered diabetic type 2 since being diagnosed over 42 years ago.  As far as I'm concerned, I am no longer diabetic and my doctor agrees with me, since going Keto a little over 3 years ago.  At that time I weighed 230#, A1c was 12.8 and I was on insulin 50 units twice per day plus glypizide and metformin.  My A1c has been around 6 for 2-1/2 years (5.8 to 6.1 varies) and off all medications and weight down to 150 give or take a few # over/under varies.  I share all of this information to tell you it is kind of a homeopathic way of treating this particular disease.  I grow spinach, yellow squash, zucchini, tomatoes, radishes, and green beans to eat, and still eat meat (mostly pork, chicken, fish, but more of a side dish and not the main attraction on my plate, and a tiny bit of fruit such as blueberries and blackberries (fruit not able to grow in my area) to keep my way of eating in check.  So by way of growing a large percentage of my diet, wouldn't that fit in with permaculture in a way?  I mean I am eating off the land quite a bit.  There are other forums that may not be considered permaculture if you want to split hairs.

Anyway, I am all for a keto forum, or at least keto/paleo, which paleo is more of just eating natural foods but not secifically for ketosis low carb from what I read.  

Thanks for listening/reading my thoughts on this subject.

MA Carey

The Keto forum exists.

https://permies.com/f/377/keto


What we need now is a thread that starts with a tutorial or something snazzy explaining "what is keto?"  - that's probably a good title for the thread as it has lots of google-fu.  When we have a thread like that, it will be easier to promote the forum... so handing this over to you guys.  I don't know enough about keto to make that thread.  

r ranson wrote:What we need now is a thread that starts with a tutorial or something snazzy explaining "what is keto?"  -

https://permies.com/t/119982/keto/kitchen/Keto