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the first willow feeder (wheelie bin pooper) at paul's place - "chateau de poo"  RSS feed

 
master steward
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Trombe wall in place. Solar cart used to power all the tools. Paul redmond on shake, RJ on hole inspection and Tyler on ninja leap.
pooper-trombe-solar.jpg
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Location: boise, idaho
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Here is some shitty advice!
Health Alert: You're Taking a Crap Wrong! This Is How You Poop Properly
http://medical-diagonosis.wonderhowto.com/how-to/health-alert-youre-taking-crap-wrong-is-you-poop-properly-0139696/
 
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I made a Sketchup version of some of the ideas listed on this thread. I hope it helps. You can add more to it if you wish, I made this simply for design/shapes. I didn't feel the need to elaborate my design on toilet seats and coat hooks because that is for the builder to decide.

Also, it seems as though it is already coming along nicely, so keep up the good work!
Filename: Outhouse.skp
Description: Outhouse Sketchup
File size: 388 Kbytes
Outhouse.PNG
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Outhouse cutaway
Back-Outhouse.PNG
[Thumbnail for Back-Outhouse.PNG]
Backside w/ doors for container swapping
 
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This maybe something for another thread but...
I'm not a fan of handling any human waste , nor do i believe it has a place in bio-gas production, if you cant keep it thermophilic (50 degc+) you may have pathogenic loads.....Being a site that people from outside of "the empire" will also be likely that will contain heavy metals , and other unwanted gick... my suggestion would be a sliding toilet running on top of a trench say 4 foot deep and a few inches wide like you would dig to lay cabling, Using a toilet like a long drop , but a short version of it that moves along as the trench fills say 3 feet deep, then back-filling the last foot with soil as the trench develops you plant filter plants like reeds and rushes, and intermittently plants like paulonia or other useful non food timbers... your up pipe for gas venting could easily be run with a small solar powered fan that would allow air to be constantly cycled thus preventing any anaerobic development...Water harvesting off the roof for hand washing would also be encouraged... a container of sawdust could be used to keep moisture content in the "mass" low...... having two sheets of roof with an air gap will keep summer temps low inside as natural convection will displace the heat ......and keep an air gap will keep it cosy if you have snowfall....It should be named "The Room Of Contemplation"
I'm on a different continent and the laws might be completely irrelevant but storage for 2 years of a "hazardous bio waste" would need fencing around the "black drum field" clear marking / signposting... might get people offside
Peace and Love Dave

P.S. If this thought doesn't suit you , please don't name the "drum field" David as punishment
 
pollinator
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After watching a couple hours of Biochar seminar I picked up that urine is an ideal material to charge Biochar. The biochar holds and neutralizes the nitrogen products preventing loss and smell.
I was thinking that having the urine hose run into a plastic bucket with snap on lid with spout filled with biochar would be a good solution. The charged biochar could then be added to compost for the biologicals to inhabit. A dusting of Biochar after each use is also beneficial to reduce smell and for the final compost. Those studying Tera Petra in South America think that this was part of the process that produced that amazing soil.
 
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forest garden greening the desert hugelkultur solar tiny house wofati woodworking
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Just thinking it's high time I posted this pic I took while pooping in the pooper.
P1010052.JPG
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paul wheaton
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I was talking with Steve Heckeroth about the designs here and he made a really good point.

I was thinking that the trombe wall thing was a fail since it seemed to be not working particularly well at the crack of dawn. He pointed out that this isn't a failure. This is a design that is close to perfect. A little optimization and we have a solid winner.

So we talked about optimizations, and I think what would be better is:

41) three tubes in the trombe cob.

42) more cob. In other words, a thicker trombe wall.

44) insulate the trombe wall on the non-glass sides.

45) finish the top so that rain and snow cannot enter.

 
paul wheaton
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I was also talking to a guy who said that he cannot help but pee when he poops. So we need urine diversion for guys too. This means we need to change the design so that guys don't hang their junk in the urine diversion stuff. So we need a bigger gap between the garbage can and the hole.
 
pollinator
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Hi guys,

I like what you have going on here and am looking to build a similar set up to use this summer. Just a couple questions:

1. What are you using as the "wheelie bin"? I was looking at wheeled garbage cans, but they are rather large and 100 litres of poop would be awful heavy to move around.

2. Does it come with it's own lid that closes nicely when stored do decompose?

3. How easy is it going to be to move the bin from the base it is sitting on to the ground where it can be wheeled around? I was thinking of having the bin sitting right on the ground and level the bench to the top of the bin so it can easily be wheeled away when full.
 
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Simon Johnson wrote:Hi guys,

I like what you have going on here and am looking to build a similar set up to use this summer. Just a couple questions:

1. What are you using as the "wheelie bin"? I was looking at wheeled garbage cans, but they are rather large and 100 litres of poop would be awful heavy to move around.

2. Does it come with it's own lid that closes nicely when stored do decompose?

3. How easy is it going to be to move the bin from the base it is sitting on to the ground where it can be wheeled around? I was thinking of having the bin sitting right on the ground and level the bench to the top of the bin so it can easily be wheeled away when full.


Welcome to permies, Simon! If you go to page 1 of this thread, Paul posted a picture of the bin we decided to use and why. I think we might be using hand trucks to move these when full, but the advantage is that they are slightly shorter than the wheeled ones.
 
Simon Johnson
pollinator
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Thanks for that. A hand truck does seem like a much better idea than the flimsy little wheels on the wheeled garbage cans.
 
paul wheaton
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We have had massive pooper failure.

For the pooper on the lab:

89) the back flap had been open - we closed it while talking about the solar trombe wall during the workshop. Steve Heckeroth used the electric chainsaw to fix it. The back flap is now sealed.

90) The trombe wall seems to be working perfectly 98% of the time. We need to take that to 100% via a few small optimizations:

90.1) the excess pipe at the top of the trombe wall should be removed. It is acting like a heat sink.

90.2) A U-shaped vent needs to be on the top, complete with a fly screen. We want air to come out and we don't want rain to go in. And we don't want flies to follow the smell.

90.3) I think we need a document to explain the design of the flap, plus the trombe wall, plus the value of using a little sawdust, plus the problem of using too much sawdust. And maybe a few other tips. Single piece of paper. Laminated and set loose between the two seats. Maybe there could be a magazine rack mounted.

90.4) reduce air gaps around the toilet seats (??)

91) Somebody with the powerful ability to turn a shack into a home needs to spend a bit of time here making this a "purty" place to spend some time.


For the pooper at basecamp

95) We need a document (like 90.3 - above). Explain how the solar aspect is inferior to the trombe wall.

96) The holes under the toilet seats need to be made larger.

97) the urine diverter is too big - so it needs to be modified

98) the urine diverter is leaking - repair needed.

 
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Apologies if this has been suggested before, but perhaps the pooper should be named "the pauper" as it is PAUl's pooPER.

thank you.
 
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Here is a photo of one of the key elements to the pooper. The fly trap, The flys get sucked out of the pooper by the fan then they get caught in this trap. It is difficult to see bu the opening has a screen over it.

Wofati-video-002.JPG
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The pooper's been fancied up quite a bit over the last month or two. We even stuck a recycled tank behind the lids and planted them with origami flowers to make it look more homey.
KIMG0064.jpg
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paul wheaton
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here are some good pics of the pooper at the labs



 
Jocelyn Campbell
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Justin Jones wrote:The pooper's been fancied up quite a bit over the last month or two. We even stuck a recycled tank behind the lids and planted them with origami flowers to make it look more homey.


Just to clarify, the fun recycled tanks with flowers are in the second pooper at base camp, now dubbed the willow bank. We have a thread with more pretty pooper pictures about the willow bank.

The first pooper at the lab has been christened chateau de poo and is embellished with this bit of art:

 
paul wheaton
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Jocelyn asked me to address a point that was brought up about the chateau de poo.

First there was something presented that sounded like "sanitation hazards".  On pressing, the sanitation hazard is ....   a mouse!

Apparently, somebody went into the chateau and saw a mouse.   I don't know if the mouse was in the can with the poop or in the box area.  

First, I want to be super clear:  if there is a mouse in there, that is a problem.  So my first thought is "how did it get in there?" 

....  before getting into this issue in more detail, I want to express that when exploring local code stuff, people are allowed to have outhouses, and there will be mice.   BUT!  The whole idea of the willow feeder is to find a path that is superior to outhouses, septic tanks and even sewage treatment plants.

A quick exploration of why this could be a problem:   a mouse gets into the poopy bits and gets poop on him.  Then he runs over to somebody's place and ...   assuming that somebody's food is not kept mouse tight ...   touches their food.     When designing a system that is supposed to be better than all of the alternatives, I think it is wise to imagine in such a case that the poop has pathogens.  In which case - this is a disease vector.   Not cool.  

So having mice inside the canister box is not okay. 

I don't know the details of the mouse that is being discussed.   Is this from a long time ago?  Is this recent?  Was the mouse in with the poop or just in the boxed area where the canisters sit?  Most importantly, how did the mouse get in there?   Did somebody leave the lid up?


So there is a lot to be figured out still, but Jocelyn wanted me to start the conversation. 


Action points:

1)   Folks with food on the lab should keep it mouse tight.  I suspect everybody is already doing this. 

2)   Folks using the chateau must put the lid down when they are done.

3)   If there is ever a mouse again, please let fred know asap. 



 
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Poo or no poo, mouse plus food is not a good thing.

I don't know the details of the situation, but it's a good reminder to keep all food mouse proof.
 
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Summer Camouflage burlap material on an old shower ring
a bottomless bucket over a hole with a water noodle for a soft seat
bury it when you are done
Boy scouts 101....a latrine
 
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Hi everyone, first time poster.
I'm looking at designs for bucket composting designs and keep coming across the use of vent pipes running from the bucket up through the roof. I'm trying to better understand this. In standard house plumbing a vent pipe prevents siphon and delivers sewer gas above the roof, but I'm not sure what it does in the compost system. The toilet lid designs I'm familiar with are not air-tight and would seemingly allow for sufficient airflow, particularly with the toilet cover being raised when in use. While a vent pipe might add a few square inches of ventilation, I'm not sure how necessary this is. A cheaper alternative might be to leave the lid up, or use extra thick rubber bumpers on the lid. Am I missing something?
 
pollinator
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Smell, my friend.

If there's a vent stack, usually dark in colour, you can encourage a draft up the chimney so the outhouse doesn't smell.

-CK
 
A Cullman
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Unless steps are taken to seal the chamber/bucket, or a fan is added to the vent stack, would a draft be created? Are there any articles on this?

Given that a typical toilet seat is less than airtight, and that there is going to be an airgap between the bucket and the seat, it seems like the system is basically open. I checked my toilet seat here at home, and there is a 5/16" gap between the bowl and the seat, and a 1/4" gap between the seat and the lid. My toilet seats would have approximately 17.5 sq in of ventilation just at the bowl/seat/lid area. A 3" vent pipe would only add 7 sq in.

I guess my question is whether the juice is worth the squeeze. A lot has been made of the fact that composting toilets don't smell. The prevalence of vent stacks seems to suggest otherwise. I guess I can try without and always add one later.

 
What could go wrong in a swell place like "The Evil Eye"? Or with this tiny ad?
Food Forest Card Game - Game Forum
https://permies.com/t/61704/Food-Forest-Card-Game-Game
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