The great big thread of sunchoke info - growing, storing, eating/recipes, science facts

Pearl Sutton wrote:I was pulling weeds by my sunchokes the other day, noticed the woodchuck has been knocking some over to eat the leaves. Saw something interesting! The plants that are just bent over and didn't die are not only leafing upward and the leaf clumps are turning into new upward stalks, but the stem is rooting. I'll bet a LOT of money they can be propagated by layering, AND I'm wondering if it was done carefully in the early season, if they'd grow tubers all along the length of the stalk.
Can we increase the number of tubers harvested if we increase the root area of a plant by laying it down and covering it?
Experiments need to be done!! That's a cool concept!!

kadence blevins wrote:
eating/recipes: I don't have much on this except that there is a lot on using them in place of or with potatoes and parsnips? what recipes do you like? what recipes did you not like?
"The carbohydrates give the tubers a tendency to become soft and mushy if boiled, but they retain their texture better when steamed" ((from wiki page))

Blaine Clark wrote:We can most of the ones we harvest in the fall as pickles and relishes. Vinegar in the canning process + during shelf storage converts the Inulin into Fructose. I prefer them to cukes! ...!!

Blaine Clark wrote:We go the already prepared way with Mrs. Wage's packaged mixes. We have a couple different recipes left over from last year and I picked up a couple more a few months ago. Around here they've been hit hard and nearly cleaned out as are most other canning supplies.
Cooking them for several hours as in a slow cooker, cooking with an acidic ingredient such as vinegar or citric acid, deep freezing for at least a day, or fermenting them as sauerkraut or Kimchi are the four main ways to convert the Inulin into Fructose and get rid of the gas issue.

Catherine Brouwer wrote:Here's another name for these, from Danish 'Jordskokker', the equivalent of which in English would be 'Earthchokes'. We've got a fair amount in the garden, as well as in our earlier garden, for years. But - I have never ever seen them flowering. The type we have is white and knobby and I am in Denmark (whatever US zone that would be). Is it the type of choke we have or the climate that prevents them from flowering? I would love flowers on them, they are very pretty!

William Bronson wrote:

Pearl Sutton wrote:I was pulling weeds by my sunchokes the other day, noticed the woodchuck has been knocking some over to eat the leaves. Saw something interesting! The plants that are just bent over and didn't die are not only leafing upward and the leaf clumps are turning into new upward stalks, but the stem is rooting. I'll bet a LOT of money they can be propagated by layering, AND I'm wondering if it was done carefully in the early season, if they'd grow tubers all along the length of the stalk.
Can we increase the number of tubers harvested if we increase the root area of a plant by laying it down and covering it?
Experiments need to be done!! That's a cool concept!!

This makes me wonder how they would react to the "potato tower" treatment.
No doubt better than potatoes do!

Joshua Myrvaagnes wrote:ANyone have any thoughts on reducing the soil upheaval when harvesting them? If harvesting in the fall, there could be a winter crop sown through mulch to lock up some of the excess nutrient that the disturbance releases, and that would winterkill as mulch.  Or if you plant a perennial in an area that you've harvested the sunchokes from then you could do a rotation into another crop.  Sunchokes to shade out competition and break up hardpan a bit, then plant to tree crops?  

Or is there a way to avoid turning the soil when harvesting?

Cécile Stelzer Johnson wrote:

Joshua Myrvaagnes wrote:ANyone have any thoughts on reducing the soil upheaval when harvesting them? If harvesting in the fall, there could be a winter crop sown through mulch to lock up some of the excess nutrient that the disturbance releases, and that would winterkill as mulch.  Or if you plant a perennial in an area that you've harvested the sunchokes from then you could do a rotation into another crop.  Sunchokes to shade out competition and break up hardpan a bit, then plant to tree crops?  

Or is there a way to avoid turning the soil when harvesting?

I'm not aware of avoiding turning the soil when harvesting sunchokes. You may be able to do that with potatoes, winter radishes, beets and carrots under heavy mulch because they don't grow deeeep. You will still disturb the top 8-10". Sunchokes do. The only way I can think of not disturbing the soil would be to grow them in half barrels. The plastic barrels they use to transport a number of food goods like pickles, Coca-Cola syrup etc. sound like a good bet. [I have not done it]. You would control everything, meaning that you would have to water, which is an additional chore for you, and you could not plant more than one per barrel. The return on your investment of barrels would not be great.
A huge planter? if that is an option for you? I have 2 planters 4' X 4'X 33' and I'm considering it.
Sunchokes should be planted relatively close if you want to "shade the competition" because at a minimum, the roots will spread 3-4 ft laterally. One stem, even with a lot of leaves every 3-4 ft will not choke out [chuckles, chuckles] the competition. [Sorry, I could not help myself]. A good layer of mulch will, however. It will also keep a lot of moisture handy for the chokes.
My soil is extremely sandy, so digging through it is not a big chore, but for the chokes,  "Have roots, will travel" should be their motto. I indicated that OIKOS has selected strains that do not travel so far. They will still travel 2 ft. laterally and one ft. down. [versus 6-7 ft on some exemplars]
You seem to be particularly worried about the soil disturbance. Any root crop, carrots, potatoes will give you a similar worry. Sunchokes travel *deep*, as well [About 1-1.5' in my sandbox]. Are you worried about disturbing the soil life besides destroying the structure? You mention hardpan, so I assume you have a more clayish soil than I have.
If you wish to break up hardpan, you might invest in winter radishes instead: They can be planted a lot closer, are a lot cheaper, are edible for humans as well as livestock. They will not travel sideways and will still go 10" if planted in the summer. Better yet, you won't have to worry about any left over in the soil: they will decompose over the winter.
I see that you are in zone 6. In my zone 4, Central WI, any piece of sunchoke left in the ground WILL SURVIVE, without mulch, and each will become a new plant
Perhaps a better strategy would be to think of a sunchoke perennial plot. Try to harvest every little bit of them [you will still fail, but try]. As far as getting rid of them where you do not want them, be vigilant in the spring and use a stirrup hoe for every plant out of place until the 'volunteers' are exhausted and gives up the ghost. That is how the deer killed all my sunchokes that were outside the garden a few years back. [I had this idea of planting a windbreak, as long as they produce massive, stiff  stems & can grow 7 ft. in one season. Well, back to the drawing board on that one!]
I hope this helps. This year, I raised them in big, high planters [10" boards all around]. That seems to have helped the ease of recovery. I could have made it even easier by just plain lifting the bed. For some reason, I found a number of sunchokes right under the boards and right under the 4"X 4" corners. I will have to write to OIKOS about that: It is as if the roots traveled outwards  until they met an obstacle, then attempted to get under but got 'stuck' and the root swelled there, forming a bulb. I wonder if they have observed the same thing.

Joshua Myrvaagnes wrote:Thanks, that's kinda what I figured.  I'm not too worried about it, just aware that it's a major permaculture principle not to till, and this situation forces it.  
I don't have any hardpan currently (except maybe under the raised bed I made).  I built the bed mostly in case they escaped and tried to choke the neighbors.  But it's also worked well for being looser soil than the "yard" soil that was here before and has been weirdly dry after seeming absorbant in the spring.
I also think there's less disturbance than a plow if you harvest by hand, make a cut with a shovel and turn it a few degrees over and reach in to pull out what ever comes and leave the ones that don't come easily.  It's a fun, cool day activity to feel around for them in the dirt.
I also do think about rotating in a non-root-crop for that area next year, knowing that it will have some sunchoke companionship inevetably too.  I just don't know what to do about the fact that right after you harvest is the best moment to sow--except to wait for harvest until the spring or late winter and then do some winter sowing of the next rotation crop.

Cécile Stelzer Johnson wrote:

Joshua Myrvaagnes wrote:


Darn! I messed up the formatting to make the message more concise. I hope it is still clear.
I was not sure if you had made a bed for them. Good for you! Being a bit higher than the surrounding soil will help: you won't have to did down to China if the plant is already a little higher than the surrounding soil. A good layer of mulch will keep the soil friable as well,  as you may have noticed. The no-till system is great but it is better if you add so much mulch that all you have to do is part the mulch to plant. [That may mean 10" or more of dead leaves: They mat with the snow on top but the root crops will break through without your help [especially sunchokes!] Dead leaves are not so good on strawberries for example because they mat so badly that they may choke the plants.
To damage less tubers [and be a lot kinder to your back], you might want to use a fork with skinny tines. Go all around about 2 ft. from the plant and then go once more around, trying to lift. they come out a lot easier if you first loosen the soil from a little farther.
As far as the best time to sow the tubers for next year, look at your harvest and sort out any that is damaged right away: Those will not keep as well out of the ground. In the ground, they will be real troopers and make you proud. Then, you can plant them anywhere in as long as the soil is not frozen. [It is a little different from garlic, which needs to develop some roots before the ground freezes]. Perhaps you will notice that the sunchokes are already developing hair roots.
You mentioned trees as a rotation crop. Trees are a long term project, not so much something you include in a *rotation*, but there are a lot of things you can plant near trees that will not interfere but *help*. Look up guilds for fruit trees.  
Good luck to you.

Cécile Stelzer Johnson wrote:

Joshua Myrvaagnes wrote:Thanks, that's kinda what I figured.  I'm not too worried about it, just aware that it's a major permaculture principle not to till, and this situation forces it.  
I don't have any hardpan currently (except maybe under the raised bed I made).  I built the bed mostly in case they escaped and tried to choke the neighbors.  But it's also worked well for being looser soil than the "yard" soil that was here before and has been weirdly dry after seeming absorbant in the spring.
I also think there's less disturbance than a plow if you harvest by hand, make a cut with a shovel and turn it a few degrees over and reach in to pull out what ever comes and leave the ones that don't come easily.  It's a fun, cool day activity to feel around for them in the dirt.
I also do think about rotating in a non-root-crop for that area next year, knowing that it will have some sunchoke companionship inevetably too.  I just don't know what to do about the fact that right after you harvest is the best moment to sow--except to wait for harvest until the spring or late winter and then do some winter sowing of the next rotation crop.

Cécile Stelzer Johnson wrote:

Joshua Myrvaagnes wrote:


Darn! I messed up the formatting to make the message more concise. I hope it is still clear.
I was not sure if you had made a bed for them. Good for you! Being a bit higher than the surrounding soil will help: you won't have to did down to China if the plant is already a little higher than the surrounding soil. A good layer of mulch will keep the soil friable as well,  as you may have noticed. The no-till system is great but it is better if you add so much mulch that all you have to do is part the mulch to plant. [That may mean 10" or more of dead leaves: They mat with the snow on top but the root crops will break through without your help [especially sunchokes!] Dead leaves are not so good on strawberries for example because they mat so badly that they may choke the plants.
To damage less tubers [and be a lot kinder to your back], you might want to use a fork with skinny tines. Go all around about 2 ft. from the plant and then go once more around, trying to lift. they come out a lot easier if you first loosen the soil from a little farther.
As far as the best time to sow the tubers for next year, look at your harvest and sort out any that is damaged right away: Those will not keep as well out of the ground. In the ground, they will be real troopers and make you proud. Then, you can plant them anywhere in as long as the soil is not frozen. [It is a little different from garlic, which needs to develop some roots before the ground freezes]. Perhaps you will notice that the sunchokes are already developing hair roots.
You mentioned trees as a rotation crop. Trees are a long term project, not so much something you include in a *rotation*, but there are a lot of things you can plant near trees that will not interfere but *help*. Look up guilds for fruit trees.  
Good luck to you.

Joseph Lofthouse wrote:

Aaron Festa wrote:Anyone have a bad experience with mice/voles/moles eating their tubers?

Libbie Hawker wrote:When I was still living in Seattle, I went to a fancy new vegan restaurant and eagerly ate a dish featuring sunchokes. Delicious! So tasty! And the next day, I felt like Violet Beauregard from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, slowly inflating to perfect roundness. I've never been so horrendously bloated in my life. No more sunchokes for me! Darn.

Kevin Goheen wrote:Where do y'all find Sunchokes? I have trouble finding them, and the few places I find want way too much money for them. Been super interested in these for years.

Kevin Goheen wrote:Where do y'all find Sunchokes? I have trouble finding them, and the few places I find want way too much money for them. Been super interested in these for years.

Denise Cares wrote:@Joseph Lofthouse mentions he prefers the smooth sunchokes to the knobby ones.  So what variety are the smooth ones, or how do you grow them to reduce the knobs?

Denise Cares wrote:@Joseph Lofthouse mentions he prefers the smooth sunchokes to the knobby ones.  So what variety are the smooth ones, or how do you grow them to reduce the knobs?

Denise Cares wrote:@Joseph Lofthouse mentions he prefers the smooth sunchokes to the knobby ones.  So what variety are the smooth ones, or how do you grow them to reduce the knobs?