Escape from the Suburbs

Just looking for some insight...

I am in a pretty bad position overall. I am very anti-social (studied engineering before leaving at Uni), don't have much savings, and really don't make enough per month to escape via the purchase of land... I can't even afford to find a small workshop locally for woodworking to try and get some savings, and I don't even use electric power tools! I do everything by hand, chisels, planes, hand saws, etc.

Living with my family, I get about 100-200 SQFT to grow food and I want to grow ALL my food to reduce my footprint and become self sufficient. My dreams are twofold: homestead, learn green woodworking. The latter is a bit of an extension on my current pursuit, hand tool woodworking and requires timberland access. I have a couple axes, a froe for making traditional shingles, and plenty of non-electric tools. All I need is a couple large timber framing chisels and with the log building books I have, I'd feel confident felling trees and constructing a simple shelter while I got a food forest going.

Of course, the part I can never afford is the ridiculously priced Florida land. It's outrageous here. I have a lot of family in South Florida so it's more convenient for me to live, thus I can't (seemingly) pack my life up and move to Georgia, or Virginia, or some other random place where the possibility of affordable homestead land is, I'd have to finance it anyway... I also don't own a vehicle, I share a jalopy with my grandma. I never want to if I don't have to, I hate driving.

Why is it so difficult to migrate to a simple life if you didn't go all in on its antithesis and "play the game" first? I want a life that places no burden on the government, Earth, or anyone else, but something modern, laws, technology, poor infrastructure, bad land management, poor city planning, rears its ugly head in my way every time I try and move forward.

Anyone manage to escape with a similar background?

We Americans have been born and raised in a desert—an ethical and relational desert. Knowing it to be based on industrialization and fragmentation, I hate that I have to travel through it, and a long way, too, in order to get out of it. I’m far from out yet, but--my life now is more connected in these last five years (since I started with Permaculture) than it ever has been, with conscious relationships to natural cycles, to my local ecosystem, and to food cultivation, primarily. This feels good, very very good.

Getting “out” and living in a better overall system is my dream, wish, and goal too: but it is going to take huge doses of

Patience

(enduring without going crazy and alienating loved ones!)

Creative cleverness

(recognizing AND making the most of zillions of opportunities)

Relationships/partnerships

(working with others instead of trying and failing to do it on our own)

Due to many of our (very positive!) life choices, my husband and I find ourselves without the means or opportunities to buy the dreamed of “five acres and cow.” Our family will have to wait until in-laws are old enough and ready enough to leave suburbia and buy a place in the country to share with us, where we will then be able to design and live the lifestyle we want. (It will be five to ten years, I reckon.)

While not-so-patiently waiting, I am practicing and learning as much as I can about what I will do someday. This keeps me growing, and rooted—growing in awareness, knowledge, and skills, and satisfyingly rooted in my ethics and ideals. This is the best I know to do with the situation I am in.

Thanks… sometimes the inevitability of never being able to live the life I want overwhelms me and makes me feel like giving up, even the process of learning anything while in the suburbs. I really love woodworking but I can’t do much of it out in the boiling sun and high humidity… I can barely pursue the only thing that keeps me sane in the suburbs… I don’t really make outdoors things, I am more interested in finer works, often stored inside.

No garage either. It’s been converted to a room a relative lives in, this is the house I grew up in. There’s another family member that moved into my old room. As I said, I just never catch a break.

The thing that destroys me inside is what I want, is so utterly simple, it’s not asking much. It’s the same pleasure and work humans have had for their entire existence, only now it’s fundamentally being withheld from me unless I played the system somehow.

Old me would have told you to work and save and yeah, work toward the goal. New me is just like....yeah if I didn't already own our land there is no way I could afford it so don't know what to say but hope for a miracle or something. I feel so sad for young people and I'm only 36.

Unfortunately all I really can say is you do have to work, you do have to earn money and have patience.

Get a plot at a community garden and you can woodwork inside. Our weather sucks so much that I do a lot of stuff inside our house. Requires a lot of cleanup afterward but I get projects done. The thing about passions is that when you find one you find a way to do it.

Rachel said, " I’m far from out yet, but--my life now is more connected in these last five years (since I started with Permaculture) than it ever has been, with conscious relationships to natural cycles, to my local ecosystem, and to food cultivation, primarily. This feels good, very very good.

This!

I am so much happier since I found the forum and permaculture.

I have always loved nature though now I understand nature.

Why when everything is put together in a concept and it works.

Why we have mushrooms instead of toadstools.

I understand what happens when it rains.  I even love walking in the rain.

I escaped the suburbs a long time ago and this has been a fun journey, especially since I found this forum.

Look towards the brighter side of life, learn as much as you can about permaculture and make it all happen.

As it goes, some people feel the rain, some people just get wet.

Jeff Steez wrote:Thanks… sometimes the inevitability of never being able to live the life I want overwhelms me and makes me feel like giving up, even the process of learning anything while in the suburbs. I really love woodworking but I can’t do much of it out in the boiling sun and high humidity…  

I have said this before on this forum, and I truly believe it.  If you think you can do something, you're right.  If you think you can't do something, you're right.  If this lifestyle is something you want, you will figure out a way.  I don't mean this in a negative way, but the part of your post above concerns me.  If you are a person that gives up, this probably isn't the lifestyle for you.  If you don't want to work in the "boiling sun and high humidity", this may not be the lifestyle for you.  Not that I think you can't do it.  You have to decide if you truly want to do it.  I work outside when it is hot, humid, miserable in the summer and -25 F and blowing ice and show in the winter.  You will need to get used to being uncomfortable, because you will be, and much of the time.  A lot of things you do for this life are hard work.  Last night I worked until late into the night finishing up a shelter I was building.  It weighs about 200 lbs and I had to move it 60 or 70 feet from where I built it.  By hand.  I got it to the area it was going to, and it was 4 inches too wide to fit through my fence gate.  I had to tear the roof off, move it in and put it back together.  I was hot, sweating, frustrated, and very tired, but it had to be done because a storm was coming.  I hadn't eaten dinner because there wasn't time.  I tore a hunk of meat off the top of my head when I hit it on the corner of a 4x4 beam while trying to move the shelter.  When I finally got it moved and put back together, I went into my shop, got out my sculpting knife, and cut 3 or 4 splinters out of my hands.  I went to bed satisfied.  When I woke up this morning, I was sore, beat up, my hands and back and feet hurt.  And I was satisfied.  Something had to be done, there was no time for excuses, and I did it.  Again, this is not at all trying to dissuade you.  I love this life and the hard work.  You get used to doing things that are uncomfortable.  I am no one special, and if I can do this, you can do this.  Just be prepared for the fact that it isn't easy.  Is it worth it?  Absolutely.

All that said, I feel like the PEP program is built for people in EXACTLY your position.  It takes people like you, that are willing and want to work land, in touch with people that have land they want to leave to someone that will use it wisely.  You will learn a lot of the skills you need along the way, and if you work, really work, at it, I think it will get you where you are going.  

I live in Florida. All day long I sweat, what movie was it; Pineapple Express? Where he says “I overheat”. That’s me. I sweat as soon as I step outside. I am talking about doing woodworking here if I wasn’t specific enough. It literally rains everyday in South Florida. What am I supposed to do, gather dozens of hundred dollar tools that can rust and move my space every time it rains or storms? And the boiling hot part has to do with humidity and warping extremely expensive wood (2022 prices), not really my work ethic.

Apologies.

Jeff Steez wrote:I live in Florida. All day long I sweat, what movie was it; Pineapple Express? Where he says “I overheat”. That’s me. I sweat as soon as I step outside. I am talking about doing woodworking here if I wasn’t specific enough. It literally rains everyday in South Florida. What am I supposed to do, gather dozens of hundred dollar tools that can rust and move my space every time it rains or storms? And the boiling hot part has to do with humidity and warping extremely expensive wood (2022 prices), not really my work ethic.

Apologies.

Best of luck to you.

I may be stubborn but to me there’s not much point in compromise. Many might disagree and say I’m a ninny.

As my favorite woodworker said, “it’s not what you make, it’s how you make it”. I’m sure I could make the same level of quality item now as if I had a proper shop, but it’s not the same. Pretty much applies to my garden as well, it’s small, confined. Mentally, it’s constraining.

“The Shokunin’s art is difficult, if not impossible, to separate from his work space, his tools and his equipment. The craft is not apart from his life so much as it is a heightened detail of life.”

I may be a fan of Japanese philosophy. I like when things are perfectly imperfect, but I’m not sure that can happen with extreme limitations.

Enough of my useless ramblings. I will be pursuing this PEP system I think. It’s worth learning what it offers since I’m starting from the ground having minimal experience with this sort of thing beyond what I can do in the suburbs… physical book worth it?

Somebody has to speak about the elephant in the room!
The early pioneers in any country from 1700's on only improved their lot by hard work, nothing else.
Anyone who dragged their feet were left outside the fort for the Indians to kill.
Today it seems to be much the same within your country, work hard or get left behind, but at least you are not killed, but you may die.
In Australia we do have a welfare system that works, not as well as some want, but its there.
" life can be beautiful if you make it beautiful, It is up to you."

Jeff you speak of circumstances that prevent you from achieving your goals.
At least you have goals, many dont.
"The thing that destroys me inside is what I want, is so utterly simple, it’s not asking much.
It’s the same pleasure and work humans have had for their entire existence, only now it’s fundamentally being withheld from me unless I played the system somehow."
There are ways and means to improve your mindset, I have been through them, but you have to start.
Sitting around bemoaning your fate has never changed things.

There is no system to guide you, your country is based on the individual doing stuff.
There is no "system" to be played, you are in or you are out. And you make choices based on whether you want to be in or out.
Land is not hideously expensive if you have an income that can pay for it.

Somehow you need to make choices, either get help to change things, or stay the same.
I hope whichever path you take, it works out for you.

I have diagnosed schizophrenia and OCD. It’s not surprising most people with this fate commit suicide or are homeless.

Proof is in the pudding. I have extreme trouble socializing or being in 99% of business settings (where business is defined as interaction between parties). That’s why I live with my family and am pursuing woodworking so I can do it alone and sell what I make.  

If this is the case why doesn’t my government offer me a way out with some sort of doctor assisted euthanasia? It’s something I would consider heavily. I don’t expect you to understand what it’s like to be me but a little bit of tempered expectations relative to who I am and who the “normal income earner” in America is might help you understand or partially sympathize.

Edit: and if this conversation is to continue in any way let’s define “play the game” as “do something for money in which you could be easily or relatively easily replaced”, perhaps something passionless, but I won’t add that to the definition.

Jeff: I can  see where you are coming from, I have been there, sometimes I think I am still there. And you are right, it's so much more frustrating than other people can understand, not having been there. Without money you can't change things, without changing things there is no money.  Without good social skills you can't ask people if you can put a garden in their yard too. Seems like there's no way out.

I think you might like the PEP/Skip exercises, they will lead you to you learn new things, and maybe you will see a niche you have not considered that you can do with what you have access to. You say tools rust in and wood rots in Florida, yes, it does. Perhaps you can use that same drive to do something that doesn't require items that rot or rust. The thing you might get from the PEP/Skip exercises is a different way of thinking about things, and it might be enough to help you figure out how to change what you can.

Look at the SKIP forum, https://permies.com/c/skip  and read through a bunch of it all. See what you might be interested in, what you might want to learn more about, use it as an index of things to consider learning about. Or things to absolutely rule out. If you see something worth considering, find it on the forums here (bottom brown button on the left is "All forums" look at it) and learn more.

I have made good money in the past by using my OCD to focus on the things I do to make me very effective. It can be focused on anything. See if you can find something to focus it on that can be done within the current parameters of your life.  

As far as if the book is worth it, I'd say start here, reading as much as you can here, I think you are not the kind of person who will go on a normal path through it all, there's more versatility in the website for non-standard people. And you are not standard, and that's an asset. Now to find out how some other things you can focus on.

Best of luck to you, I hope you find a niche you can thrive in.

Jeff, I guess there is little support for ' assisted euthanasia' in your country.
I have a friend with OCD, and I was surprised to learn that your combination of conditions exist.
My friend has found this helpful to himself  mental-health/schizophrenia-support-group
you may know of it?

Jeff, I'm really glad to hear that you are trying to grow food for yourself. Have you considered learning to ferment food? This can improve one's gut health, and I've read that there's a link between gut health and mental health - I guess the "you are what you eat" has more truth than I thought when I first heard it! The doctor who made a big effort to improve the gut health of her patients, found that levels of medication could gradually be lowered noticeably. That helped decrease many of the side-affects. There is absolutely areas of both the PEP program and the PEA program that relate to cooking healthy food, and many people have found that although generally diet changes aren't "cures", every little bit helps.

Jeff: If you only have 100 sq feet to garden, go vertical! Keep it looking good and it's hard for people to complain. Search in the box at the top for "trellis" or "vertical" we have lots of that here! :D

Jeff Steez wrote:I may be stubborn but to me there’s not much point in compromise. Many might disagree and say I’m a ninny.

As my favorite woodworker said, “it’s not what you make, it’s how you make it”. I’m sure I could make the same level of quality item now as if I had a proper shop, but it’s not the same. Pretty much applies to my garden as well, it’s small, confined. Mentally, it’s constraining.

“The Shokunin’s art is difficult, if not impossible, to separate from his work space, his tools and his equipment. The craft is not apart from his life so much as it is a heightened detail of life.”

I may be a fan of Japanese philosophy. I like when things are perfectly imperfect, but I’m not sure that can happen with extreme limitations.

Enough of my useless ramblings. I will be pursuing this PEP system I think. It’s worth learning what it offers since I’m starting from the ground having minimal experience with this sort of thing beyond what I can do in the suburbs… physical book worth it?

I say this as someone who has been very fortunate.  My then boyfriend, now husband of 12 years and I bought our first home while I was still in college at the beginning of the real estate bubble downturn on the west coast.  We worked hard and chipped away at projects, updates, tons of different versions of gardens, and when we sold the house 2 years ago, we were able to walk away with enough to pay cash for 100 acres of raw land far away from anything that we knew, in Kentucky.  I say this because the small garden space that I worked with for over a decade was leaps and bounds easier to plan, design, manage, plant and harvest than anything that I'm doing out here on the land. I never saw my suburban lot as a limiting factor to what I could accomplish outside of laws against keeping livestock. Faced with a distinct lack of limits on what I can do (beyond what I can physically do), making designs and plans is HARD.  But I'm lucky to be able to fall back on my years of much smaller gardening experience to prioritize plantings, incorporate hardscaping and vertical design to make things beautiful, and know what type of stuff I am likely to want to eat.

Do not view your present situation as your limiting factor.  If you don't have much space to garden in, prioritize high-value food items, or things that can be stacked/layered/grown vertically.  Learn your lessons on a small scale and quit focusing on what you don't have, focus on what you can learn where you are right now, and trust that it will benefit you in the future.  Additionally, know that there are downsides of everything.  You mention that you would like to live somewhere rural but also not drive or have a car.  That's probably not an option, and you have to decide whether not driving is more important than growing everything you eat.  Everything in life is a balancing act and we can't have everything we want unless we change our wants.  

Jeff, to your original lamentation, maybe it will help to think that your situation is the common human condition throughout history. Most people's life choices are constrained by where they were born, by choices their family has made, and by other societal and personal forces. Most people in the world through history live with their parents or near their parents' home. Most never own or control as much land as they might hope to. So really you are doing as well for yourself as the most of the rest of us. You may have personal challenges, but you are still managing to do some woodworking and still learning, planning, and dreaming like the rest of us. As far as self-sufficiency, I woudl say you can take pride in the fact that by living in a shared space with other relatives you are lessening your environmental impact, even if not in the way you might prefer.

John C Daley wrote:Somebody has to speak about the elephant in the room!
The early pioneers in any country from 1700's on only improved their lot by hard work, nothing else.
Anyone who dragged their feet were left outside the fort for the Indians to kill.
Today it seems to be much the same within your country, work hard or get left behind, but at least you are not killed, but you may die.
In Australia we do have a welfare system that works, not as well as some want, but its there.
" life can be beautiful if you make it beautiful, It is up to you."

It's never really just one person's work ethic that gets them to the good life, though. The "early pioneers" in my part of the world improved their lot by violently forcing inhabitants off the land they coveted, or following behind the federal troops that did the dirty work for them. Who was allowed to be a "homesteader" and profit from the original Homestead Act was a gendered, political determination (only a citizen or intending citizen "head of household" who had not "borne arms against the United States," plus the civil servants of the time would ignore or discourage non-white applicants). Private property is both acquired and maintained through political power (or its more pacific surrogate, money).

Jeff Steez wrote:...a way out with some sort of doctor assisted euthanasia? ...

I have no direct experience with the issues you are dealing with, so I can only try to imagine the struggles you face.  I have dealt with suicide directly, suicide of an immediate family member that I loved, and I can tell you, the effect on the people left behind is immense and horribly painful.  I hope you don't choose that route.

Mk Neal wrote:

It's never really just one person's work ethic that gets them to the good life, though. The "early pioneers" in my part of the world improved their lot by violently forcing inhabitants off the land they coveted, or following behind the federal troops that did the dirty work for them. Who was allowed to be a "homesteader" and profit from the original Homestead Act was a gendered, political determination (only a citizen or intending citizen "head of household" who had not "borne arms against the United States," plus the civil servants of the time would ignore or discourage non-white applicants). Private property is both acquired and maintained through political power (or its more pacific surrogate, money).

That was a very different time.  I have seen too many people "get to the good life" through their work ethic alone to believe it is impossible, or even hard.  My parents came from nothing, worked very, very hard, and built good lives for themselves.  My brothers and I did the same, and we started down that path before my parents had anything themselves, so we started from nothing too.  The examples of people doing this are nearly endless.  I'm in my late 50s, and I know a lot of people.  I don't know any that got their land by violently forcing anyone off of it.  No one "allowed" me to buy land or build the life I have.  I just did it.  I didn't acquire my property by political power.  Yes, property is acquired, at least by most people by money.  That's why I worked my ass off at two jobs for many years and bought it.  It was absolutely my work ethic alone that got me where I am.  To suggest that others can't do the same if they are willing to work hard and sacrifice to do it is to sell them short in my mind.  Different people have different abilities and disabilities.  Such is life.  Name me any disability, and I can almost surely give you an example of someone that overcame that same disability to build something they could be proud of.  I don't believe that, properly motivated, the human spirit can be stopped.

Trace Oswald wrote:

Jeff Steez wrote:...a way out with some sort of doctor assisted euthanasia? ...

I have no direct experience with the issues you are dealing with, so I can only try to imagine the struggles you face.  I have dealt with suicide directly, suicide of an immediate family member that I loved, and I can tell you, the effect on the people left behind is immense and horribly painful.  I hope you don't choose that route.

As someone who just commemorated the year-anniversary of my cousin's suicide, and the five year anniversary of my grandmother's suicide, I absolutely back Trace's plea. I've been depressed myself, and have OCD and an anxiety disorder. With medication and determination, I've gotten better, but it does take work. But that work is worth it as I have great joy in life, despite a socially difficult job and the grief that can bring forward my mental problems. No matter how hard it seems it can get better!

I hear your frustration, Jeff. It seems like common sense has gone out the window when it comes to what we basically need as humans to live. I believe it can all be traced to excessive focus on money and power - one of the first things I noticed when I arrived as an immigrant in the U.S. 47 some years ago - and it's only gotten more pronounced over the years and seems to be catching on in the rest of the world too.

However, I have found that dealing with the actual reality of things, rather than trying to ignore all the stuff that I wish were different or that bothers me, is what helps me move forward.

The other thing that has helped lately is saying "I get to ...." rather than saying "I have to..."  Since we did not focus on money or positions of power in society, in part due to mental health challenges, our budget for buying property was limited, so we have ended up with another major fixer upper. Our skills are what have gotten us through and we keep acquiring more skills - not necessarily ones we actually wanted to pursue though!

You have made the first step, by sharing in this forum what your challenges are.

You've also outlined the positives in your life - a guaranteed place to stay, at least some income, family who understands you, a place to garden - 200 square feet is plenty big enough for one person. Perhaps you can build a small workshop in part of that space - it would be great experience for you.  I recently built my own sturdy 8x8 garden shed with a metal roof from scrap materials lying around - and I'm a woman in my 60s.

It also sounds like you have access to the Internet, which can be used as a vehicle to advertise wooden shingles for sale. I was able to make money off a how-to website for years. I was able to set it up so that contact with other people was minimized.

If the weather really is too much for you, consider getting a property caretaking or WWoofing job somewhere. Some of the places are remote.

All the best to you...