Anyone used a PowerPot (thermoelectric generating cooking pot)?

Following a rabbit hole from a different post, I ended up reading a Low Tech Magazine article on thermoelectric generators: https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2020/05/thermoelectric-stoves-ditch-the-solar-panels.html

They mentioned the PowerPot, and I see that though the business who made them totally changed direction, there's an older one for sale on eBay and also one or two new Chinese copies on the market.

Basically, it's a cooking pot that uses the temperature differential between a heat source and water in the pot to generate electricity. Not a LOT, 5W at best. But in winter when there's not a lot of sun for the solar panels and the woodstove is on several hours a day, it should easily generate enough to run a light in the evening and charge a phone.

Has anyone used one? I am wondering if the original company got so many poor reviews on Amazon and stopped making them because the product really didn't work, or because they marketed to the wrong audience. They targeted hikers and campers, who are not going to want to use two cans of camping gas they've backpacked in to charge a phone! I think a better market would be cabin dwellers and woodstove users.

I am seriously thinking to buy the original Kickstarter PowerPot for sale on ebay, but would hate to spend the money and find it really doesn't work!

didn't use one yet, but i wanted this one for a long time. same principle, but more efficient and created for woodstove

Teg 10w

I don't have answers, just more questions.
I started looking into this kind of thing because of the lantern powered led lights, which might seem counter intuitive but using a heat/light source to get a brighter light could be an acceptable trade off.
Reviews and prices were discouraging.

I'm afraid that the  thermoelectric devices might have a short lifespan, but that is just conjecture.

William Bronson wrote: I'm afraid that the  thermoelectric devices might have a short lifespan, but that is just conjecture.

That's my concern as well -- especially if it's marketed as a gimmick for camping and occasional use. Pretty sexy in the store, but how long before it's in the landfill?

Thermoelectric devices can be built to last a long time. I had a good quality thermally powered fan (peltier junction driving an electric fan) that sat on my wood stove for years and years. It wasn't cheap, but it kept going flawlessly. So yes, it's possible.

The idea of a simple and affordable device that turns heat  into usable electricity is so tantalizing.
It is that very allure that makes me doubt it exists.
Not only would I expect to see them everywhere, I would expect to see knock off versions everywhere.
Lithium battery technology is like this, as is solar and in fact these two things may be why the TEG thing hasn't taken off.

I think the heat limit of the  modules is about 650 F, which seems easy to over shoot.

I like to see what people are talking about without going to the links that are furnished.

Here is what I found:





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This cooking pot charges your gadgets while heating your soup

William Bronson wrote:The idea of a simple and affordable device that turns heat  into usable electricity is so tantalizing.
It is that very allure that makes me doubt it exists.
Not only would I expect to see them everywhere, I would expect to see knock off versions everywhere.
Lithium battery technology is like this, as is solar and in fact these two things may be why the TEG thing hasn't taken off.

I have seen thermoelectric generators installed in remote industrial facilities where grid power is impossible. They use propane as the heat source, which is refilled once a year. So yes, they are out there, in fringe applications.

The problem is always that the power output is very low in relation to the cost. So they haven't made it into the first world consumer mainstream, where people want it all and they want it now.

TEG is such an interesting concept, and there could be reasons this device didn't take off that has more to do with buyer expectation and competition from alternative energy sources. It's not really a useful back-up energy source for campers and hikers to use. Too many gas cans needed to get a full phone charge, and too tricky to use something with vulnerable wiring over a wood campfire! Epecially when it was launched right around the time the cost of lithium batteries and small solar panels dropped significantly. The item was packaged with an 1800 maH lithium battery for energy storage, which very seems laughably small now. Also, the guys who will spend $$$ on an item like this probably also have a more recent model of cellphone, which a low-wattage device like this simply won't charge. So I do think poor marketing choices had a lot to do with the bad reviews from hikers and campers for the PowerPot.

But the fact that TEG devices aimed at homesteaders, like the stovetop lanterns William mentioned, also disappeared from the market fast makes me wonder. Do they simply not work, or have a very short lifespan that makes the cost-benefit ration too negative? I am fine that it's only going to trickle energy into a battery bank, and six hours on the stove might only produce enough to charge my tablet once. That's better than nothing on a cloudy winter day if the grid goes out. But I don't want to pay $100 for something that dies after a single winter, or less.

The temperature range issue - I'm not sure my stove top ever gets over 650, so overheating shouldn't be a problem. I would need to keep an eye on the thermometer but I would be very surprised if it gets so hot. There's always the question of whether the stove top gets hot enough, of course! Apparently this was a problem with some of the stovetop fans and lanterns - if the top of the stove is insulated (I don't think mine is), it may not get hot enough for any energy to be produced. The idea with the pot is that it's filled with water which can't get hotter than boiling point, so a stove with a decent burn going should have enough temperature differential to generate some power. It's quite small, so would be easy enough to pour the boiled water into another pot and refill with cold to get more of a difference going and thus generate more power.

I hate to waste money! But the idea is so intriguing, I might just go risk that $100!

I regularly use my biolite campstove, which thermoelectrically charges its own battery, allowing you to power lights and charge devices as well.  I like having it in the car in case I get stuck somewhere and need to a) cook or b) charge my phone.  Just add twigs!

Those Biolite stoves look good! I was so sad they stopped making the larger Base Camp model, as I'd intended to get one for outdoor use.

I thought it would make sense to use the flue, as it's already part metal and conducting hot gases through cooler air. Just needed another metal jacket. Searching "flue thermoelectric" found this, looks rather complex: https://newatlas.com/energy/wrap-around-thermoelectric-generator/

Anthony, I think that new invention would work great with a big hot flue, though for a home flue, especially an insulated one, the embodied energy in the generator might be more than the energy it every produces! I probably wouldn't buy a new PowerPot or similar for that same reason. The embodied energy vs produced energy numbers probably wouldn't add up.

I did end up buying the old never-used Kickstarter PowerPot from an ebay seller, so will report back on how it works. I imagine there will very very low energy production, but as the woodstove will be burning anyway, I hope to make extra use of the wood energy by trickling electricity into a battery bank. And I already have a pot of hot water bubbling away to humidify the air, so I can serve both purposes. We will see!

The real challenge with thermoelectric seems to be getting enough temperature differential between the hot and cool sides of the generator. To get the numbers quoted in the article, they must have had a very hot flue in very cold air! But they are impressive numbers and in the use the creators are suggesting, capturing additional energy from the flues in an existing industrial power plant burning coal, gas, or biomass, it could work well.

Hi. Ever thought of using Biolite2. I have one and it's great. It's a small wood stove that burns twigs and small branches or pellets and uses the heat of the fire to make electricity and a fan to blow air to cool on the other side of the peltier. It has a battery pack which it charges and is also a power bank. Search biolite.
Best regards
Denis

Hi Denis! The Biolite stove looks great for outdoor use. I wanted to purchase their slightly bigger Base Camp stove/generator for my outdoor kitchen (it also had a pizza oven attachment!) but unfortunately that model's no longer available. I'm not sure the smaller stove will meet my needs, as I need things for the homestead rather than for camping. I should check to see whether I can get a used but still working Biolite Base Camp stove.

I have mains electricity connected to the rural house I hope to move to soon but the area has outages in winter and also plenty of cloudy winter days so I am planning for backup systems. Enough to charge a battery bank to run a light and my phone. I'm looking at the PowerPot and similar because I want something to use indoors on my wood stove for those winter days when there's not enough sun for the solar panel but the stove will be burning most of the time.

Curious to see how this works out for you.  I'll buy a 100W TEG some time before our winter grey patch in June/July.  We've only done two winters here so far but there seems to be about a two to three week period where the weather is just too grey for any real production from the solar panels.  I've relied on our generator the last two years, but obviously if I never had to use it again it would be too soon.  

Because it's only two to three weeks investing in more solar and/or more batteries doesn't seem like the appropriate technology when, like you, we've already got a wood stove running most of the time at that time of year.  Plus a water cooled TEG can contribute *something* to our hot water needs at the same time.

I'm pretty excited about the TEG.  Not the $700 price tag before shipping though.

Ouch, Thomas! That is a hefty price tag. Though that's a potential excellent power production and with hot water too, it could well be worth it. The cost-per-watt for what I bought, even getting a big discount by buying a pre owned but unused item on ebay, is far higher.

The original Kickstarter model PowerPot is 5W at best, so will be trickle charging a 20,000 maH battery for a light and tablet/phone, and providing a teapot-sized hot water supply. So my experience with it may not be hugely relevant!

They are entirely different scales, for sure, but the technology is largely the same (minus the mechanisms they use to cool).  

The PowerPot will be built with a proper TEG module so would offer a better proof of concept for a larger system than the lacklustre information available/repeated ad naseum about building your own with refrigeration modules that are related but different technology unequipped to handle the heat of a wood stove.  (Remember the days when the internet was good and useful and not the same article repeated over and again with erroneous information for the sake of affiliate marketing?)

But yeah, for sure, no pressure.  Just if, in a few months, you find yourself with a spare 10 minutes and thinkin' 'bout that PowerPot it'd be great to get an update about any insights you've gleaned and how it has performed against your expectations.

Since @paul wheaton just talked in a recent podcast about his days working for an energy commission and how they thrashed about trying to find alternatives to river destroying dams and coal plants, I'd be interested to hear if this technology ever came up. The theory has been around since the 1830s. The Wikipedia article mentions it is in use at the industrial level, but I don't see mention of when it was introduced or how productive it is. I'm guessing it is negligible even compared to the other insufficient renewable sources in use.

Oh yeah. I remember those days! We have so much more information available now. Just shame that so much of it is misinformation!

I will post results for sure. I won't be at the property with the wood stove till spring to test it there, but I will try the PowerPot out on a heat source here as soon as I receive it.

I haven't researched the larger scale uses of TEG technology, so can't comment on that, Coydon.

Certainly, with the smaller output charge-your-cellphone TEG uses, some possibly good products have been hurt by other factors. Misdirected marketing, competition from small solar panels and lithium battery banks becoming a lot more affordable soon after the TEG-based product launched, and people getting newer phones requiring higher wattage to charge than the small TEGs produce.

The PowerPot may simply be a not-very-useful product, I will discover that when I test it. But I suspect for what it is, it's fine. Just priced out of the market by cheaper ways to charge a cellphone while off-grid, and then the newer iPhone with different charging plugs and higher wattage requirements killed it. So many of the bad reviews are for exactly that - "It won't charge my iPhone."

The Biolite stove several commenters in the thread mentioned survived by using an inbuilt battery so the battery charged the phone, not the direct output from the TEG, and by being more multifunctional. But the Biolite's not suitable for my purpose, plus more expensive, plus I don't like that the battery can't be changed when, as all batteries do, it eventually refuses to take a charge.

Here is a little video of the generators I have played with.

Lots of possibilities there, Christopher!

Thanks Christopher, you've been busy!
Any idea of the efficiency - watts in, watts out?
Others were working on using incidental heat, using a non-dedicated source like a room/house heater.
I guess yours is more dedicated to electric, with space heating a by-product?
Thanks

I would like to raise the thread with the question of how to practically use solar hot water and wood fire heat (including stored heat) to make power in the KW.  Is there an easy go-to DVD or website somewhere?

Also, is it possible to use the same unit both to generate thermo-electric heat, and to create heating and cooling with electricity.

I am in in a place with both solar and wind in abundance, but am interested in peltier for the following reasons:

- I would want to pump water in summer anyway to irrigate my gardens from a sand-trap bore
- I would want to pump water in winter anyway to take heat from my heat store, and put it under my heat-loving plants, (or to put heat into large bodies of water to 25-30C like my pallet swimming pool or water around a methane middy).

A also want to produce heat when needed for things like:
- A backup for under seedlings if there is several days without sun
- to keep things like youghurt at a constant temperature

I also want to use cold for things like the following without spending big money on the appliances that do this:
- Making ice cream
- cooling down mushroom rooms in summer
- Cooling a temporary cool room to 4C or less to hang meat for a week when the yearly calf is butchered
- Putting excess electricity into heating a heat store above boiling temperature
- Putting excess electricity into a cold room to give berries their sufficient chill hours and then grow berries out of season.

Annie, I don't know the answer to your question, but I suspect the cost would be in the $thousands for a device capable of producing high wattage and it would require a huge amount of heat input.

The little PowerPot I bought is claimed to produce 5W at peak performance, but will be probably nearer 2W in real life use.  Thomas said he was looking at a 100W TEG with a $700 price tag.

So it's probably possible to do what you want but may not be affordable or practical. I'd love to know if it can be done!