3 Scoop Discussion

Austin Durant wrote:Got to dig my three scoops in during 2022 PTJ in which we were filling in a hole after seeking a spring terrace at the Lab!

These were the only pictures taken during my short stay at Wheaton Labs. I can provide several witness testimonies that I indeed actually dug three scoops.

Very few of the other APPROVED BBs in this thread show three scoops being dumped. Please reconsider.
Thank you.

Austin Durant wrote:

Austin Durant wrote:Got to dig my three scoops in during 2022 PTJ in which we were filling in a hole after seeking a spring terrace at the Lab!

These were the only pictures taken during my short stay at Wheaton Labs. I can provide several witness testimonies that I indeed actually dug three scoops.

Very few of the other APPROVED BBs in this thread show three scoops being dumped. Please reconsider.
Thank you.

Thank you Austin for this request for exemption from the BB requirements.  As the SkIP Program matures, BB requirements are added, changed or deleted.  When this happens, previous approved submissions may be grandfathered.  This means that the BB remains completed.  Having completed this BB myself, I added a short video of me actually moving the dirt and dumping it because I considered the pictures may not be sufficient.

I agree with the reviewer that your submission does not meet the criteria and so was marked correctly.  Unfortunately, witness testimony cannot be used as evidence for a BB.
It is disappointing to put the effort in only to be denied the BB.  I have had the same but it is a lesson in understanding the requirements, shooting the film and then delivering the required product.

My solution when I don't get it right is to look at what the latest few BBs have as submissions and submit similar but in your own style.  If you are unsure, ask the question first and then go for it.
I hope this helps to answer your question.  Happy for you to PM me.

This thread talks about:

A place where folks who had BBs rejected could make their appeals.

Edit to say: Oops. forgot the link ...

https://permies.com/t/151682/PEP-Court

I don't know if that was ever implemented.

Paul Fookes wrote:I agree with the reviewer that your submission does not meet the criteria and so was marked correctly.  Unfortunately, witness testimony cannot be used as evidence for a BB.
It is disappointing to put the effort in only to be denied the BB.  I have had the same but it is a lesson in understanding the requirements, shooting the film and then delivering the required product.

With all due respect, this is absurd. What else would I have done with the scoops?! When the letter of the law is held more sacred than the spirit of the law, it becomes fertile ground for petty tyranny.

I certainly have less enthusiasm and motivation to proceed with BBs or the PEP program, and certainly less to tell others about it. I would think that is a much more important value than a set of inflexible rules, but perhaps I'm wrong.

If we make an exception for one person then another person will want one for other reasons.

We make the requirements and hold to them for simplicity to the volunteers approving the BBs and the people trying to complete them.

I agree with Jeff and Paul F.  

Since it's a free program and certifying is voluntary, we have to keep it straightforward.  Since it's free we can put a bit more of the burden on the participant to prove the requirements clearly for the certifiers.

Some requirements have been massaged over the years to resolve problems where submissions didn't meet the spirit of the BB.  The "Carve a simple spoon" BB wasn't prescriptive enough and some submissions would have caused an ER visit it used to eat with.  We try to adjust them as issues arise and it's usually to make it easier on the approvers or to make it easier to tell if the person did the thing.

We're trying to avoid slippery slopes.  "Hey, you approved this one, mine's just a bit different but can't you allow it too".  Pretty soon the "Carve a simple spoon" would be getting submissions for carved spatulas and canoe paddles.  I jest but not really...

Straightforward submissions get approved pretty quickly by happy approvers.  If anything is edgy they often sit around and staff has to spend time talking about it.  Like with this one here...

Austin Durant wrote:

Paul Fookes wrote:I agree with the reviewer that your submission does not meet the criteria and so was marked correctly.  Unfortunately, witness testimony cannot be used as evidence for a BB.
It is disappointing to put the effort in only to be denied the BB.  I have had the same but it is a lesson in understanding the requirements, shooting the film and then delivering the required product.

With all due respect, this is absurd. What else would I have done with the scoops?! When the letter of the law is held more sacred than the spirit of the law, it becomes fertile ground for petty tyranny.

I certainly have less enthusiasm and motivation to proceed with BBs or the PEP program, and certainly less to tell others about it. I would think that is a much more important value than a set of inflexible rules, but perhaps I'm wrong.

To an employer or potential Otis, half the value of PEP is doing the thing.  The other half - the biggest half - is proving one can follow instructions.  

The people who are certifying these badges are 100% volunteers.  Being mean to them isn't going to get you any brownie points.  Nor is it likely to get your way.  

If you want to appeal a higher authority, the best way to do that is to start a NEW thread in the Tinkering With This Forum forum and all the senior staff (and likely paul) will get an email about it.  https://permies.com/f/11/tnk

To an employer or potential Otis, half the value of PEP is doing the thing.  The other half - the biggest half - is proving one can follow instructions.

A third half may be how well people conduct themselves when things don't go as planned.