The great big thread of sunchoke info - growing, storing, eating/recipes, science facts

Joseph Lofthouse wrote:If starting in a new location, I plant sunroots about 18" apart.

So if growing in containers, I’m likely only going to want a plant or two per container then? Seems like that wouldn’t be worthwhile. Unless they really make a lot of tubers when they have adequate space

One of my varieties of sunroot yields about 13 pounds per plant when grown in the ground. I'd expect less if grown in a pot.

Joseph Lofthouse wrote:One of my varieties of sunroot yields about 13 pounds per plant when grown in the ground. I'd expect less if grown in a pot.

Thats unreal! I think I’ve been getting 1-3 small tubers per plant. They probably total 1/2 lb total at most. I dont really want to grow it outside of a pot because I dont want them spreading everywhere and dont want to till around them.

It is very possible that Joseph is getting 13 pounds of tubers growing in outside conditions.  Sun, rain, and soil are what makes thing grow and mother nature helps too.

If a person wants to grow in pots that is their choice.  Probably less abundance due to the confines of a pot.

I so wanted to grow sunchokes as I loved seeing them growing wild when we lived in the Piney Woods of East Texas.

Here they might need a lot of tender loving care and great soil.

Doug McGregor wrote:Growing these for the first time this year from seed, hoping they'll be perennial in zone 3 with some heavy mulch.   The seed I have is isn't a named variety, are there actually varieties grown from seed or are we talking about cultivars propagated from the tubers?

There's some good information here about the growing season, I would sure like to collect our own seed in the fall - maybe a few plants will make their way into the greenhouse before we get frost.  

I grew some many years ago in a raised bed. We had an extremely cold winter that year, peaking pretty close to -40° and with no mulch, a raised bed and no care at all i had 3 sprouts in the spring from tubers I'd missed. I no longer grow them, they dont sit well with my digestion, but even the harsh northern winters in zone 3a don't seem to bother sunchokes.

Yeah, mine have been through -36F with no mulch and didn't seem stunted by it in the slightest. They don't love cool summers, but cool winters seem like no problem.

Wow, that was a lot to get through. I am considering including sunchokes in a newly started food forest/re-nativization area of about an acre. Soil is silty-loam with red clay at about 6-8" of depth. The property owner is concerned about the aggressive growth nature and wants a plan for control before planting. I would like to cover an area at least 4x20. Any suggestions for containment without breaking the bank? Obviously harvesting all of the tubers when ready would be the ideal method.

One thing I have been mulling over is excavating clay from a section of the property for other projects, but could I use clay to basically build a barrier along the sides of a dug border, down to the depth of the inground clay?

Do sunchokes fatten turkeys or pigs?

I like fat meat (marbling). Will turkeys become fat with a diet of only sunchokes (and gras, insects; Whatever else they find on pasture)?

Thank you!

Tracy Steele wrote:I would like to cover an area at least 4x20. Any suggestions for containment without breaking the bank? Obviously harvesting all of the tubers when ready would be the ideal method.  

Sorry for being late, just saw this. Containment depends on the varieties you get. If they form seedheads, birds, squirrels, mice, etc. can and will spread the seeds. There are several varieties that spread only by tuber. Make sure you get a variety that doesn't form seeds. Once you've got that, containing them is no problem if you make sure you can mow a border around the entire patch at least twice as wide as the stolons can spread. I have two varieties, I haven't managed to get either one to seed. One has stolons that spread around 16" at most, even in loose soil, the other one spreads up to a bit over 24" in loose soil. If I keep a border regularly mowed of at least 32" on the one and and a border of at least 4' on the other, they don't spread. I had another variety that spread over 4'. They required at least an 8' swath mowed around them! Last year's tubers would try to sprout and spread and they would cross under sidewalks and even driveways! They also tasted nasty, so I got rid of them.
As for harvesting all the tubers ... Forget it! You'd have to sieve ALL the soil from beyond the border of the stalks, as far as the stolons can spread, down to whatever depth they will reach. Not practical as the smallest tubers could be as small as +1/8" and on some varieties, even a piece of stolon could start new plants.
I have a patch of about 5' x 24' and I easily get 30 gallons+ if I harvest fairly aggressively. Even at that, I miss so many I don't have to deliberately leave any for seed.
A compacted clay barrier would slow their spread somewhat, but they'd work into that and over a few years would fracture through the clay. And yes, they will grow in clay, it keeps them from spreading so much so fast, but they'll work at it! If you could build a solid barrier of rammed clay (clay well mixed with cement and compacted), concrete or mortared brick or block and extend it well below their downward spread, you could go that route, but that would be big bucks!! The rammed clay would be some cheaper, but labor intensive! I started one patch in an old shale driveway. After 15 years the shale has been thoroughly broken up and the composted tops have built the soil up fantastically!

Blaine Clark wrote:
I have a patch of about 5' x 24' and I easily get 30 gallons+ if I harvest fairly aggressively.

How far apart do you space your plants in order to get decent sized tubers? Or is tuber size based more off of variety and water than spacing? And do you try to harvest 100% and then replant, or do you just do a sloppy harvest and let whatever you miss regrow?

K. Teichmann wrote:Do sunchokes fatten turkeys or pigs?

Fascinating! I used to raise turkeys and pigs and fed 'chokes and greens to the pigs. We also fed a good mix of grains and pretty much anything else to the pigs too, so I don't know if the 'chokes helped fatten them. I know the pigs would go ape-spit over them!! Never fed any to the turkeys and we never let them run in the 'choke patch. Never thought of it ... I do know that the tops have around 16% each of protein and fiber and are most excellent for rabbits, guinea pigs, cows, goats, sheep, whatever. Some even make silage fodder out of the greens for storage of soft and enriched greens. Young turkeys require more protein than adults, so maybe even the greens would do the adults good if they'd convert the protein into fat ... I'd say it's worth trying.
I've heard that when feeding the tubers to chickens, some chicks don't like raw 'chokes so boiling or roasting to soften them makes them much more appealing.

I'm moving in the middle of Sept. and hope to take some of my sun chokes along. ( from Ontario, 5b to 6b in the new place)
I'll have to cut the stalks off and dig them while they are still active and then plant them quickly since I won't have much storage space suitable to preserve them. Are they likely to do okay?
I have one already in a pot but the bed is large and the more I move, the faster the new place is producing.
I only put them in 2 years ago so haven't processed or dug any yet so am not familiar with how they handle earlier harvesting.

Brody Ekberg wrote:
How far apart do you space your plants in order to get decent sized tubers? Or is tuber size based more off of variety and water than spacing? And do you try to harvest 100% and then replant, or do you just do a sloppy harvest and let whatever you miss regrow?

When I harvest aggressively, which is seldom, I still don't get all the tubers, plus anything under about 1" I leave. Some summers they're thicker than the hair on a hare and still produce good sized tubers. Soil quality is #1 I believe, light to moderate water while they're in full bloom is #2 and variety is #3 I'd say. They'll grow in most any kind of soil, but the better it is, the better the tuber. I wait until the tops are dead and dried, then I go through and pull the stalks and take whatever tubers come with. The soil in the old patch is loose enough that most of the tubers come right out. I've got a little 1.5" electric chipper that I put the stalks through and scatter the chips over the patches. When I go through after the ones left behind with a sod fork, later or in the spring, the chips get turned under and become fuel for the next years. My patches keep getting better and better each year. I put no fertilizer, lime or anything other than a scatter or two in the fall of Slugo to cut the slug population down. I have some Stampede - I'm guessing and some red skinned Fuseau - maybe. They've been collected locally so I don't know what varieties they are for sure. The Stampede, the oldest ones I have, can produce some massive gnarly tubers the size of baking potatoes in their 15 year old patch. They've more than doubled their size in 15 years, and I don't re-seed with the largest tubers obviously. I could only guess how they'd have done if I'd done that over the years. The red Fuseau are much younger, I've only had them by themselves for three years now and they are much like small to tiny sweet potatoes.

Dian Green wrote:I'm moving in the middle of Sept. and hope to take some of my sun chokes along. ( from Ontario, 5b to 6b in the new place)
I'll have to cut the stalks off and dig them while they are still active and then plant them quickly since I won't have much storage space suitable to preserve them. Are they likely to do okay?
I have one already in a pot but the bed is large and the more I move, the faster the new place is producing.
I only put them in 2 years ago so haven't processed or dug any yet so am not familiar with how they handle earlier harvesting.

They will probably think it's fall and go dormant till spring. The later you can dig them the better. Plant them sometime before spring, if you can put them in before winter that's best.
If you can, dig them, dump them in a pot or box of dirt, doesn't have to be nicely planted, and move them that way. That will keep them from drying out.
I'll give them over a 93% chance of making it.

Blaine Clark wrote:
When I harvest aggressively, which is seldom, I still don't get all the tubers, plus anything under about 1" I leave. Some summers they're thicker than the hair on a hare and still produce good sized tubers. Soil quality is #1 I believe, light to moderate water while they're in full bloom is #2 and variety is #3 I'd say. They'll grow in most any kind of soil, but the better it is, the better the tuber. I wait until the tops are dead and dried, then I go through and pull the stalks and take whatever tubers come with. The soil in the old patch is loose enough that most of the tubers come right out. I've got a little 1.5" electric chipper that I put the stalks through and scatter the chips over the patches. When I go through after the ones left behind with a sod fork, later or in the spring, the chips get turned under and become fuel for the next years. My patches keep getting better and better each year. I put no fertilizer, lime or anything other than a scatter or two in the fall of Slugo to cut the slug population down. I have some Stampede - I'm guessing and some red skinned Fuseau - maybe. They've been collected locally so I don't know what varieties they are for sure. The Stampede, the oldest ones I have, can produce some massive gnarly tubers the size of baking potatoes in their 15 year old patch. They've more than doubled their size in 15 years, and I don't re-seed with the largest tubers obviously. I could only guess how they'd have done if I'd done that over the years. The red Fuseau are much younger, I've only had them by themselves for three years now and they are much like small to tiny sweet potatoes.

Interesting! Ive got 2 unknown varieties here. One I found in a gravelly ditch, has purple skin and pretty small tubers. The other was given to me, has tan skin and is much larger. Ive got them growing in containers sunk into our garden soil to prevent them from spreading all over the garden. I think i drilled drainage holes in the containers, added a little gravel, then filled with a mix of coarse sand, compost and our native soil. Then some woodchips on top for mulch. They tend to grow pretty crowded so I thin them out but still usually end up with mostly tubers that are so small they are bite sized. Maybe I should take them out of the containers and put them in the ground somewhere I can mow around. Maybe that will give them enough space to grow bigger tubers.

Inspired by Nicole's nettle paper, I tried making paper out of Jerusalem artichoke (JA) stems. It's reported the cortex of JA contains 54.1% cellulose, 16.3% hemicellulose and 12.5% lignin (Eurasian Chemico-Technological Journal 21(2019) 173-182.), so it seems like the low lignin level will make it easy for hand making paper with home appliances.

I took the traditional steps for paper making of retting and alkaline hydrolysis:

1. Separating lignocellulose by retting the stems in water for a week, rinse well
2. Boil in water to remove more impurities
3. Burn dry grass clippings to make a weak alkaline solution (can buy stronger chemical)
4. Boil JA lignocellulose in alkaline solution for 2 hours to partially remove lignin and hemicellulose (fibers turn from stiff to pliable)
5. Smashed to small pieces with a hammer and later chopped into smaller fragments with a blender (a high speed blender will work much better)
6. Boil chopped okra and use the sticky musilage as binding agent
7. Add small amount of coffee filter paper for strength
8. Mix and blend to make the paper pulp
9. Pour onto a layer of chiffon fabric for shaping
10. Press to remove water and air dry

The finished paper is similar to egg carton felt but stronger and has a lighter color. It makes fun crafting projects.

I am truly excited that I have finally found a dedicated area on my plot of land for sunroot/sunchoke/jerusalem artichoke!

I am going to start with three varieties, gauge their performance, and perhaps experiment a little bit with them in the future once they get established.

A. Red Fuseau
B. White Fuseau
C. Beaver Valley Purple

I am looking for Stampede but not in a rush at this time.

My hope to get out of this is a bit of a screen at the end of my property, biomass production, and edible tuber usage. I'm excited to see how this goes.

May Lotito wrote:Inspired by Nicole's nettle paper...

The finished paper is similar to egg carton felt but stronger and has a lighter color. It makes fun crafting projects.

May, what beautiful paper! I love the rose! You're so very creative...💜

Don't mix the varieties in the same plot. They are allelopathic and will compete with and degrade each other. I learned that the hard way when I rescued some possible Red Fuseau and tossed them into an established patch of possible Stampede. The Stampede had established themselves for years in that patch and severely retarded the Reds, the Reds didn't do well at all until I removed some and put them in their own patch.
I've collected mine locally so I can't guarantee what variety they are.

Blaine Clark wrote:Don't mix the varieties in the same plot.

Uhh...









Guess I'm breaking the shovel out again.

Thank you!

May Lotito wrote:Inspired by Nicole's nettle paper, I tried making paper out of Jerusalem artichoke (JA) stems. It's reported the cortex of JA contains 54.1% cellulose, 16.3% hemicellulose and 12.5% lignin (Eurasian Chemico-Technological Journal 21(2019) 173-182.), so it seems like the low lignin level will make it easy for hand making paper with home appliances
....

The finished paper is similar to egg carton felt but stronger and has a lighter color. It makes fun crafting projects.

Testing different leaf decoration techniques

Making a 3D rose with pokeweed stain

That's AMAZING, Mary! Your rose is seriously beautiful, and I love how your paper turned out. I never would have thought to try sunchoke stems. But, that's kind of the cool thing about fiber stuff--once we realize there's fibre in things, we keep realizing more and more things have useful fibre, too!

To address our sunchoke's "knobbiness", which makes them difficult to clean. this coming year, I will grow them in containers. I think the blue plastic barrels that are about 55 gallons, cut in half.
I noticed that the first year, the tubers are small, but nice and regular. The second year seems to be when they get knobby. The knobs are arranged symmetrically and one large sunchoke root can have as many as 16 knobs, arranged along 4 lines along the tuber, but usually 12. Since even a tiny piece of root can give you a whole plant, there seems to be no advantage to grow them till they are knobby, unless you want them for seed. In that case, you pay want to cut them like potatoes in the spring, right before you plant them. Of course, they will be smaller the first year, but the advantage is that they will be smooth and easier to clean.
They will not grow well with garlic, and the garlic won't grow well with sunchokes either.
Another advantage, if like me you are 75 and getting lazier, is that by growing them in a half barrel, you won't have to chase them to Timbuktu. You are also assured of getting every single piece of root, so they won't invade your whole garden. [Some can travel 6-7 feet away and better than a foot and a half deep]. I have sandy soil, so that may make it worse [the soil is poorer, so they have to travel to get all the food they need [?] At the end of the year, I think I can cut the stalk and flip the barrel and recuperate all my soil.
My soil is good enough that they do not typically need a lot of fertilizer, and if they do, my chickens give me quite a lot. I may also be able to keep the darn Johnson grass out of a barrel with enough mulch! In the garden, though, it's a chore!
The pink ones are the real "fartichokes", and they must be cooked or I get cramps. The white ones are much better, but my body needs to get used to them all over again each year. Small amounts first, then more, then I can eat them raw, like radishes, without cramps.
Depending on your climate, you may be able to just put the barrels, with soil in a barn, and help yourself to them once in a while, or tip the barrel and pick them all. If you do, they will store better in buckets with sand around them and in a cool place, an unheated garage...
Deer like the sprouts quite a lot in the spring and they will eat the tubers if you leave some on top of the ground.
Uncovered they will freeze and dry out.
I plan to grow my sweet potatoes the same way, in a half barrel.

As for soil density and tuber shape, pictures from Growerjim.blogspot.com clearly show the difference. Here I took a screenshot but you can read the whole article here.
The ones growing in pure sand are almost fractal.

I'm finding that my woodland sunflower that I planted a few years ago likes it here much better than some varieties of Jerusalem artichoke that I have tried previously - I normally need to leave them in for a few years and get a rather meagre harvest. I wasn't expecting much from the Helianthus strumosus, since most reports suggest that the roots are smaller than H. tuberosa, but they obviously like it here! I planted them in 2021, so this will be their third year, and since it started to look as if they were going to take over the garden (coming up in my pathway) I decided to dig a few to see what I have. Nice! The tubers are long and smooth and perfect, needing just a quick rinse in preparation. These were dug up from just a foot or so of what should be path in the garden. So they produce a fair amount of biomass but no flowers yet, I'm probably just too cool for them. It appears that they will have a tendency for being invasive, so I'll need to be careful where I put them. Mind you the free ranging sheep here will soon stop them spreading too far!