How to get the most out of small acreage?

I dream of rolling acreage where I, in my mind, have unlimited potential to do whatever comes to my mind. The reality of the situation is, that is not my situation. I have about a third of an acre, and I'm making the most out of it!



What techniques do you utilize to get the most out of limited land? How do you decide what to do when space is in demand? Do you have any creative tips?

I have a situation that fits this example currently.

There are a LOT of fruit trees in the world, but each tree takes up a chunk of space. How do you decide what type and how many fruit trees to have if there isn't unlimited space for an orchard?

Currently I have a pair of peach trees, a pair of apples, a pair of plums... but I want more!

Part of my solution is the utilization of dwarf and semi-dwarf rootstock. It is my understanding that I may be trading a few years of production for a smaller footprint. I don't mind this so much in my situation.

The internet tells me i have 0.017 acres, which is pretty limited.
My only strategy so far is to make sure no space is unoccupied (unless I'm intentionally letting a bed lay fallow, for example if I've trench composted, and even then I feel bac about wasting space). I try to have seedlings going at all times to replace any missing plants.
Right now at change of seasons it's hard (we are just in the first cold snap of fall and it will warm up again surely), as I'm waiting for seeds to come up in the beds (I usually use starts, but I'm trying to save some cash this year), but once things get moving it will get easier.

Timothy Norton wrote:Part of my solution is the utilization of dwarf and semi-dwarf rootstock. It is my understanding that I may be trading a few years of production for a smaller footprint. I don't mind this so much in my situation.

I would recommend that you pick this book up before it is too late to apply the methods contained in it. I believe it solves the orchard piece of having a small property. Little does not mean unproductive.

https://permies.com/wiki/260271/Grow-Fruit-Tree-Ann-Ralph

Josh Hoffman wrote:
I would recommend that you pick this book up before it is too late to apply the methods contained in it. I believe it solves the orchard piece of having a small property. Little does not mean unproductive.

https://permies.com/wiki/260271/Grow-Fruit-Tree-Ann-Ralph

Thank you for the recommendation, I will check it out this afternoon!

I think taking the first step and admitting that you won't be able to do everything is key :)

Secondly I think is organizing and planning. The same way people plan for a tiny house. With a big house, you can get away with unorganized stuff and with not planning a place for everything. The same is true with property. If you have 100 acres... or even 5 acres, you can get away with a lot of unplanned things and being unorganized. With 1/3 an acre you have to be much more deliberate.

Start by making a list of everything you want on your property when you are done. Then be realistic about how much space those things take. Then use whatever method you want to see what fits where. I like the idea of using graph paper to layout the property lines and buildings. Then cut out pieces of paper the size and shape of the plants and animals you want on the property. Then it's like a puzzle to move things around and see what fits where.

Once its all planned... start slowly. Adding too much at once can lead to being overwhelmed and if that happens... it is much harder to take care of things.

Hello! We have limited land and aren't likely to be able to change that any time soon. On our almost acre, we've managed 60+ fruit cultivars (a mix of trees, berries, grapes, hardy kiwi, currants, American cranberry) two beehives, two KuneKune pigs, we butcher and replace one each year so we're constantly replenishing our pork supply, chickens, rabbits for meat and fertilizer, and a small flock of sheep. We have a large garden, we've repurposed trampolines that our kids have broken into a hoop house, and we catch water in IBC totes. There have been wild successes and crushing defeats. Some animals haven't worked for us with the confines of our space; for us, ducks, we love but are very messy/water intensive especially in the winter which is rough in a small area so we no longer have ducks. We have chosen sheep over goats after years of goats as we wanted fiber as well. We lose a beehive every few years and have to replace it, but the benefit for pollination is bar none. We've incorporated straw bale garden beds to maximize our growing areas, we've done mini versions of Paul's hugelkultur in split IBC totes and it has worked wonders! We've done modified swales using existing low spots that retain water in rainy seasons and put straw bale gardens on top to make use of mucky land...I genuinely think that if you are creative and determined, the sky is the limit!

Welcome Elly!

I was thinking about this today as I was out weeding my garden and thought of another thing, particularly if you are in an urban/suburban setting: one needs to be very vigilant about getting as much sun as possible, since there may be limitations from neighboring buildings, walls, etc. I have to be very vigilant about pruning everything (especially vines like passionfruit and my fruit trees) or else my yields are nil-- it's constant.

My only new technique this year (we have 3 city lots,  a little better than a quarter acre) is putting up two chicken enclosures to keep the groundhogs from eating EVERYTHING before I do.  😂   I have 3 peach trees, 2 pear, 3 apple but they have multiple cultivars grafted on, hoping for more edible fruit this year.  Took down the 2 plum...took up too much sun for the pitiful outputs.  Going to look into the book recommendation.

Josh Hoffman wrote:

Timothy Norton wrote:Part of my solution is the utilization of dwarf and semi-dwarf rootstock. It is my understanding that I may be trading a few years of production for a smaller footprint. I don't mind this so much in my situation.

I would recommend that you pick this book up before it is too late to apply the methods contained in it. I believe it solves the orchard piece of having a small property. Little does not mean unproductive.

https://permies.com/wiki/260271/Grow-Fruit-Tree-Ann-Ralph

An excellent recommendation! I was was gonna say the same.

I have 0.15 acres in suburban Space Coast Florida that I own plus generous easements between sidewalk and road owing to it being a corner lot  that I have to mow. I learned long ago that people WILL steal fruit from my front yard, so I have focused primarily on my backyard behind my privacy fence.
I have over 40 assorted fruit trees, grapes, and passionfruit vine plus three large raised veggie gardens and several pollinator patches of flowers. In addition, beneath my fruit trees, I run a backyard plant nursery. There are not big open spaces in my yard, mostly just 3ft pathways. I also have 4 chickens (at times, I’ve kept more), had quail but the neighbors dog killed them, and a swarm of bees has just chosen one of my vermicomposting bins as their home, so they will soon be relocated into a hive. I guess I have honey bees now Meat Rabbits could easily be incorporated into my system and I’m confident I could feed them at least 80% from my suburban homestead, but one step at a time.

There wasn’t anything in my backyard when I moved in. It now looks like an established forest. The key to fitting more in is aggressive pruning and choosing, productive, hardy, dwarf varieties.

I’ll be adding more fruit trees in the front yard once I can establish a thorny blackberry hedge that will keep light-fingers out of my produce.

The best thing to do is start in one little area. Plant it out. Then keep moving. Sure, you may regret the placement of something down the road, we all do, but you can either learn to work with things where they are, grab a shovel if the tree is small, or an axe if it really doesn’t work where it is. Just start playing. And keep building. Have fun!

Thought I’d share some pics from two years ago when I claimed the whole backyard for growing. Looking back, I’m actually surprised how fast the fruit trees have grown in just two years. But here are the pretty pics. You can do a lot in a small space. The first three pics are from April 2023, the last is from May 2023.

I also have about a tenth of an acre and after discovering the book recommended already I have a tiny orchard ie 3 apple trees.  I picked apples because they are extremely versatile from fresh eating, to cooking to cider I felt I would get the most bang for my buck as it were.   I grow bush squash in my small beds, have added vertical planters where I can put greens, beans, etc.   Micro and dwarf tomatoes can work if you are carful which means I have more ground space to dedicate to things like corn... this year potatoes will go in the bottom tiers of the Greenstalks with a some in the front yard.  Since corn needs to be in a block and my raised beds are only 6 by 3 so  I am still deciding where to put that  and of course all the paste/sauce tomatoes I want to grow this year

This year, I'm trying to work more polycultures into my landscape in order to try and take advantage of the most space possible while not being limited to a few crops due to limited area.

I have roughly a hundred foot by four foot section of bare soil. This is from clearing out a line of hedges that had overgrown significantly and were 'tamed' back. I threw a bunch of old seed in it and had really good yields last year so I'm trying to be a bit more intentional this year.

Has anyone had success making the most of limited space through polyculture?

Timothy Norton wrote:This year, I'm trying to work more polycultures into my landscape in order to try and take advantage of the most space possible while not being limited to a few crops due to limited area.

I have roughly a hundred foot by four foot section of bare soil. This is from clearing out a line of hedges that had overgrown significantly and were 'tamed' back. I threw a bunch of old seed in it and had really good yields last year so I'm trying to be a bit more intentional this year.

Has anyone had success making the most of limited space through polyculture?

Check out David the Good’s “Grocery Row Gardens.” He has a little book and a blog and YouTube channel (pick your fave media) and has an entire garden built around permaculture poly culture. I always mix up my plantings in my raised beds. Other than beans and corn, I don’t do long rows of anything. Every tomato plant has a different veggie or herb between them. Far less disease and especially pest pressure with polyculture/intercropping

Elly Butterwitch wrote: and a small flock of sheep.

How are you managing sheep in your small space? Do you have to mostly bring in their feed or do you have enough grass for them to eat once you account for the space for everything else you're doing?

Hi Timothy,


Look into the Have More Plan.   It is dated, but there is still plenty of good information.

we've done mini versions of Paul's hugelkultur in split IBC totes and it has worked wonders!

Can you provide more information on this?

Nina Wright wrote:we've done mini versions of Paul's hugelkultur in split IBC totes and it has worked wonders!

Can you provide more information on this?

Also interested, and photos would be a great visual for those of us with limited ability to imagine!

We have 3 lots now. Started with the quarter acre lot with house , garage and shed. That space is where we keep 20 chickens in the yard, rabbits in the garage in a colony. We have two apples, 5 pears two cherries plus native pollinator plants, greens , tomatoes that reseed garlic and beans that reseed. Blueberries and raspberries round out that area. We have a shade front area we grow forest medicinals, blueberries, mushroom logs. One other space has  other plants and some random peaches just cause.
Our half acre on the block was empty except 4 mature fruit trees and two small apples. We had to remove one of the peaches and may still have to cut out a peach. Disease is rampant but we have been working on it. We started by fencing the perimeter and planting pussy willow to the north, aboravita on the east and inside the fence on the north. Native plums and redbuds on the west south we planted fragrant sumac. The next layer was person on the north end with paw paw put in-between them later. We replanted in the mature orchard with some new random plums from the plum tree existing. Added another plum  in our center line we planted a couple of pears and another cherry. I have a couple of hazel nut trees spread out, mayhaws, bush apricots, blue berries, raspberries, grapes, prairie grass, lavender, chamomile, and flowers. At the near center we have a blackberry arbor. Black raspberry fills in another section. We also have 3 different varieties of currant spread around. Many many medicinal plants, garlic beds. One enclosed annual space which also houses strawberries. There is always room for one more plant not necessarily trees anymore.  We did plant some plum from seeds to see what would come of it. Out of two we liked after 3 years. The other one was firewood.
Now our last and my personal space is a quarter acre. Removed a trailer house off of it. Repurposed parts of it for a shed, that still needs finished. I fenced it then started planting.  It is a garden for now. Knowing that at some point the trees will change the sunlight available but i like my trees. It is packed as dense as i can. I actually believe i am out of tree space. I have planted hazelnuts, pecans, Schezuan and shansho peppers, service berry, seaberry, a walnut tree, currants, gooseberry, Allegheny Chinquapin s, American beautyberry, oregon grape, american holly , redbuds, dogwoods, aboravita, some random peaches, a couple of random plums along the alley, a Kentucky coffee tree, some goumi trees, blackberry ,raspberry, and kiwi. My alley fence line is planted with black locust, roses and buffalo berry that will be cut and maintained as a living barbed fence. Oh , and finally a jujube tree. This is my space that i have my potatoes growing , corn , peas, beans poppy, greens of every sort, calendula, borage, sweet potatoes, grapes, gourds, castor plants, mushroom logs, clovers, sunflowers, and marigolds. It is also the place i built a 10x14 greenhouse for overwintering a couple of citrus trees and hopefully growing ginger. I also have space for a Johnson -Su bioreactor and a air pruning bed. Its a hot mess . Its been plentiful mostly. We will see as all three of our lots  develop. We have and will change our annuals and even some of the perennials as the trees mature. Just like in nature thing move from pioneer species to established plantings. We hope these will not only be food for our golden years but as a seed bank for the future.
Thinking about it i have not mentioned dozens of plants and trees. But im tired of typing. Moral of the story for me is make a plan, change the plan, keep planting, and don't look at seed catalog's. Good luck, have fun and  keep planting

Apartment dweller here. I think I take the cake. 🎂 I am growing in containers and bags. Everything but my onions are thriving! My potatoes are even growing buds! This is my first time growing these specific veggies, (onions, potatoes and tomatoes & peppers) but everything is coming up good so far. 🤷‍♀️If you're growing onions, I highly suggest putting it in a bag, and unroll the bag down, it doesn't seem to do well in a bucket. 🤦‍♀️ (Yes, all my plants are south facing). Make sure the buckets you use for everything else are food grade. You don't want to use just any ole bucket. I use the orange ones from Home Depot and the blue ones from Lowe's. They work great. Yes I am growing them inside, because of the chemtrails & I don't want my neighbors to take them. This plan has worked for me so far. & Yes, they're all organic.

I have 0.14 of an acre (598sq m), and have over 50 fruits and trees. My microclimates extend what I grow from cool temperate, temperate, sub-tropical and limited tropical (mango, bananas, coffee, guavas, feijoa, Native Currant-Antidesma erostre, red papaya, babaco, avocado, etc, my cooler trees like apple have 6 multi-grafts giving me ongoing apple and 3 pear varieties 7 months of the year, grapes and citrus are multi-grafted as are stone fruits, apricot, plumcot, plums, nectarine, peach varieties, macadamia and hazelnuts, white and red shatoot mulberries, also native exotics like finger limes and lillypilly. It is a permaculture teaching yard which demonstrates microclimates and showing what understoreys like berries tamarillo, passionfruit, banana passionfruit, and many herbs and groundcovers that work best.

Not everyone has what they perceive as an ideal climate but we have managed, through small micro-climate areas to attain a very productive level of what we love to eat. Haven't been successful with pineapples :-(

I love seeing what folks find works for them, how they start with the basics then build up to understanding how to manage one small microclimate area at a time. I've been doing this seriously since the 1980's, so there is a lot happening here.

Set out what fruits you really love and will use and do some research on what to place around and under, you'll be very satisfied with each success, and will learn what doesn't work and not to waste time on. Seeing what works in your own neighbourhood is a great start and leads to people with like minds who can help with bits and pieces along the way.

Everyone here has great suggestions and such different environments that you should end up with some solid info to kick start your next step to more trees.

Timothy, have you considered (even with the Dwarf fruit trees) using them in tree guilds, instead of typical orchard format? It would give a more diverse, forest-like garden, and encourage crop abundance, while at the same time offering a more natural aesthetic, being friendlier to both you and the local beneficial wildlife, and give you a deeper feeling of being in a more rural area - like your own bucolic paradise.  

When you don't have space to grow out grow up as in vertical gardening. Also never forget about inter species planting.

John F Dean wrote:Hi Timothy,


Look into the Have More Plan.   It is dated, but there is still plenty of good information.

I have spent an enjoyable night shift browsing most this book- there is a platform where you can read it online for free. While there are some outdated, non-permie animal and plant husbandry methods used, there are some really good gems in it. With a bit of tweaking, still totally do-able on small acreage.

Thanks for sharing.

Annette Jones wrote:I have 0.14 of an acre (598sq m),
Not everyone has what they perceive as an ideal climate but we have managed, through small micro-climate areas to attain a very productive level of what we love to eat.

Set out what fruits you really love and will use and do some research on what to place around and under, you'll be very satisfied with each success, and will learn what doesn't work and not to waste time on. Seeing what works in your own neighbourhood is a great start and leads to people with like minds who can help with bits and pieces along the way.
.

I think I may have a similar climate to you, maybe drier. Rainfall is mostly winter/spring. I have a frost period of maybe 60 days max (recorded while I've been here the last 4 years). Summers are scorchers. I can grow passion fruit and by covering my citrus I have got through 2 winters without loss but prior to that I tried avocado and mango- 2 of my MUST HAVE'S- and all failed. Avo's I have tried growing from seed and keeping in an unheated poly house over winter, but they die. Mangoes and Avos I bought potted trees which survived the 1st winter under a covered veranda, struggled through the summer and definitely didn't make it through the winter. I have 1 or 2 spots which I am considering as a microclimate. One is a stone wall about 2 meters high, sun facing and sheltered from winter wind and midway down a slope. The other is an east facing dirt bank about 1.5m high near the bottom of a slope. Based on your experience with these, and if your climate is similar, how and when would you advise planting these trees, would they benefit from having greywater empty into their chipped wood covered "swales" or rather just occasional watering. I have heard fruit trees dont like wet feet but I'm not sure if this applies to all tropicals?
I think your post was a great example of, with a bit of thought, we can grow much more than say standard orchard spacings allow.

"Sarah Joubert wrote:
I think I may have a similar climate to you, maybe drier. Rainfall is mostly winter/spring. I have a frost period of maybe 60 days max (recorded while I've been here the last 4 years). Summers are scorchers. I can grow passion fruit and by covering my citrus I have got through 2 winters without loss but prior to that I tried avocado and mango- 2 of my MUST HAVE'S- and all failed. Avo's I have tried growing from seed and keeping in an unheated poly house over winter, but they die. Mangoes and Avos I bought potted trees which survived the 1st winter under a covered veranda, struggled through the summer and definitely didn't make it through the winter. I have 1 or 2 spots which I am considering as a microclimate. One is a stone wall about 2 meters high, sun facing and sheltered from winter wind and midway down a slope. The other is an east facing dirt bank about 1.5m high near the bottom of a slope. Based on your experience with these, and if your climate is similar, how and when would you advise planting these trees, would they benefit from having greywater empty into their chipped wood covered "swales" or rather just occasional watering. I have heard fruit trees dont like wet feet but I'm not sure if this applies to all tropicals?
I think your post was a great example of, with a bit of thought, we can grow much more than say standard orchard spacings allow.

Hi Sarah,
You don't say where your location is, it would be helpful. Regarding the avocados I protected them from mid-summer heat the first 3 years by putting a sail over them, then took them down, they don't like much wind or scorchers like we can get 109F/42C, winter temperatures can vary from 23F/-5C so summer or winter they needed the cover in their early years.

The avocadoes I have are 2 different varieties which can cross-pollinate for heavier yields and are growing very successfully about 200m from the house (NE) in the yard with the chickens where they get plenty of fertiliser and give shade to the hens. If you are northern hemisphere I guess you would look at SW, low wind.

I seldom water now except if we have more than 5 days too hot, but the first 3 years I deep watered fortnightly and added a brew of weeds, and seaweed to give resilience and they are always well composted and mulched. I use shredded sugar cane mulch, chop and drop weeds and winter ground covers. The mango likes more heat than avocadoes, (I have 2 between 15feet/4.5m), the same thing applies until they are over 3 years old keep them covered during weather extremes, well composted and mulched. Wood chip is great around them and greywater doesn't hurt at all if that's what you have access to. Also don't forget groundcovers suitable for your area, that cover, nourish and break down.

If you are in Southern hemisphere I can give you the varieties I found best. Hope this helps

I'm so glad the OP (Timothy) started this thread. It seems there are a lot of us in this boat!

Thoughts:

1. I wish I could grow up my girl on a farm. I am not going to be able to do that. But, she is old enough to join 4-H this year, and we will be able to plug-in to the local farming community in a new meaningful way, and I may then discover (with volunteering, etc.) that I don't need to personally have a farm for her to grow up with farms, you know?

2. I think it's important that we Permies should always learn, innovate and prototype to get the most out of ourselves as well as our land. With a shaded urban lot, I am extremely limited as to what I can ever grow, but there are other ways besides gardening that I take action on my aspirations to make Permaculture more of a normal thing, and live by Localism principles. There is truly always more to try, and lots and lots to learn, which is very exciting.

3. Speaking of which, my biggest opportunity for growth in the Permaculture scenario is learning to do serious foraging, I think. If I put even 5% more potential time and energy into this, I would have an even greater life. Foraging would benefit me in about every conceivable way: getting me out in nature more, teaching me about local seasonal cycles, providing us the most nutritious food that can be found, saving  us money on food, prepping my family with knowledge for emergencies...etc.  

Annette Jones wrote:
You don't say where your location is, it would be helpful.  If you are northern hemisphere I guess you would look at SW, low wind.

If you are in Southern hemisphere I can give you the varieties I found best. Hope this helps

Thank for the advice Annette, sorry, I am North East Spain, about 200km South of Barcelona, about 50KM from the coast, 70m above sea level. Our weather sounds the same, we also reach into the fourties C but rarely go below -5C in the winter. Our wind comes out of the NW in winter and South in summer. Luckily both spots I mentioned are low in the landscape so the wind is lessened in summer and they are shielded from winter wind. Thank you for all the advice on shade, frost protection, ammendments etc But most of all for sharing your successes. They  encourage me to try again!
Does this apply to guavas, bananas and papaya too? How much row space does a 4.5m tree require? I have maybe 15m in total to create a wind free micro climate so I want to make the most of it! Ideally I'd like 2 mangoes and 2 Avos and I'd settle for 1 each of the others.

Ended up having to replant the onions. My plant just wasn't viable enough to transplant. So I planted 2 more seeds. Now we wait. (They're in the clear cups). 1 seed each.

Thank for the advice Annette, sorry, I am North East Spain, about 200km South of Barcelona, about 50KM from the coast, 70m above sea level. Our weather sounds the same, we also reach into the fourties C but rarely go below -5C in the winter. Our wind comes out of the NW in winter and South in summer. Luckily both spots I mentioned are low in the landscape so the wind is lessened in summer and they are shielded from winter wind. Thank you for all the advice on shade, frost protection, ammendments etc But most of all for sharing your successes. They  encourage me to try again!
Does this apply to guavas, bananas and papaya too? How much row space does a 4.5m tree require? I have maybe 15m in total to create a wind free micro climate so I want to make the most of it! Ideally I'd like 2 mangoes and 2 Avos and I'd settle for 1 each of the others.

Sarah I have created a banana circle that includes 5 varieties of bananas that extend the season over 6 months, 2 strawberry guavas, 2 papaya. Understorey is 2 Naranjilla, 1 arabica coffee, and ginger; and on the outer part of circle in sun, arrowroot and cardamom. Ground cover is sweet potatoes. Create your circle so the outer edges extend to your 15m. Pile up a big heap of green waste, compost and soil, water it really well then cover in straw then woodchip. Plant your bananas on the top of the heap around the circle evenly, the guavas on the sunnier side of the circle inside the bananas alternate inside with the rest of the plants, except arrowroot, ginger and cardamom which go outside in sun too. As heap starts to sink top up as necessary, probably every 2 years. As banana leaves die off, chop and drop around the plants always, If you have animals a little top up with aged manure 6 monthly also helps. I usually find I don't have to water after the plants are established as the micro-climate of these produces its own evaporation cycle. With the sweet potatoes, look up for how long and when they are due to mature in your area and putting a glove on, forage around the roots for tubers. I often partially snap the stems at a node and push the stem right down into the soil. This creates more tubers wherever you star new roots off. The leaves are also wonderful to thicken soups, stews, casseroles and fried crispy as a topping on Chinese or other Asian meals.

I'm not sure what varieties of mangoes or avocadoes you can access but both can be pruned to size and will grow quite happily near one another, just not in the banana circle, they are another micro-climate. They will need 7.6m/25 feet depending on the cultivar, mangoes need 3.4-4.6cm/10-15 feet; but they can be pruned to shape and height once they are past 3 years old.

On a fun note: when my bananas have ripened and their stem has to be cut down to make way for new ones that shoot at the sides, I position the stem and gouge out a large trench to hollow down its length, leaving the ends on so water doesn't run out and fill with soil and compost mix and plant them with lettuces, the stem keeps feeding them until you need them :-)

Hope this helps.

Wow! That's a wealth of information and a great banana tip! I love sweet potatoes and I've tried growing them too, and while I get lots of top growth in the summer,they die over winter.I tried growing them under poly this last winter but I came up with the idea in the autunm and I think I transplanted my slips too late. I'll grow out some more this summer- but put them in the protected bed I built until I can get these pits sorted.  Now I cant wait to get back and start preparing, my husband is not going to be happy......More funny holes to dig.  The area I have is not 15m long and about 1.5m wide with a stone wall behind, so not a circle, but I presume the concept will still work if I plant the coffee and ginger towards the back and the cardamon and sweet potatoe between and in front of the bananas. Can I alternate the guavas between the bananas?
Your avos are in your chicken yard so I don't suppose you have much of understory or ground cover? Whats under your mangoes?
Thanks for taking the time to reply

I have two more months of balcony gardening (lots of pots and 2 balcony garden boxes, which attach specifically to the balcony on the outer side.)  We're moving in June to combine house with my father, where we will have portions of the yard for gardening and hopefully setting up a composting area.  The lot is 5,000 sq. ft. typical Portland lot size.  The house is fairly big, and there are aspects of the yard, both front and back, which we can't change to fit our tastes because its not our house and, even though my father isn't really using it much he's a stubborn person.  So I did some mapping and a project to gage sunlight hours around the equinox to see what areas have the most sunlight and I drew a chart.  I'm deciding what to put where.  So while it will still be limited, we will have much more flexability than we currently do re. space, while still having some definite restrictions.  Our goal will be to save money while sharing so we can someday buy our own house in future.  My father needs us to be there for and with him at this time, likely for several years as he's not ready to move into a retirement community situation yet, but living alone has gotten too challenging for him in multiple ways.

Sarah Joubert wrote:Wow! That's a wealth of information and a great banana tip! I love sweet potatoes and I've tried growing them too, and while I get lots of top growth in the summer,they die over winter.I tried growing them under poly this last winter but I came up with the idea in the autunm and I think I transplanted my slips too late. I'll grow out some more this summer- but put them in the protected bed I built until I can get these pits sorted.  Now I cant wait to get back and start preparing, my husband is not going to be happy......More funny holes to dig.  The area I have is not 15m long and about 1.5m wide with a stone wall behind, so not a circle, but I presume the concept will still work if I plant the coffee and ginger towards the back and the cardamon and sweet potatoe between and in front of the bananas. Can I alternate the guavas between the bananas?
Your avos are in your chicken yard so I don't suppose you have much of understory or ground cover? Whats under your mangoes?
Thanks for taking the time to reply

Hi Sarah, Yes you can alternate bananas and guavas, the concept will work for the coffee, ginger, cardamom and sweet potatoes. Improve your soil first. If you are just putting in a new tree just keep it well-watered and mulched and protected from wind for the 1st 3 years.

One thing I have found is really important is to try not to plant in straight lines, permaculture shows that following nature as closely as possible works better for yield, you will also come to understand how planting in guilds helps immensely. You will get to know quickly what are the best layers to plant in your area.

My mango I keep pruned between 4.5-7m/15-20 feet and woodchip around. I have various types of thyme, catnip, comfrey, calendula, society garlic and aragula growing around the outer drip line. I started all these quite thickly after 3 years so as to keep weeds down also I put in a small lime tree the following year on the sunny side as the mango got bigger. There is very little watering needed now except in very hot weather so I have a greywater pipe which I can uncap for flow as needed.

One other thing, going by your comment on the sweet potatoes you are correct, the timing of planting is crucial so they are established well before winter when they can be covered in straw, you will find they reshoot in spring.

Let your husband know how well we all appreciate helpful partners here, he needs a big hug and so do you for trying to become more resilient and sustainable in your lifestyle.

Jessica Jueckstock wrote:

Elly Butterwitch wrote: and a small flock of sheep.

How are you managing sheep in your small space? Do you have to mostly bring in their feed or do you have enough grass for them to eat once you account for the space for everything else you're doing?

I'd like to know too

Annette Jones wrote:[Let your husband know how well we all appreciate helpful partners here, he needs a big hug and so do you for trying to become more resilient and sustainable in your lifestyle.

My husband is great actually, he spends 4 months looking after the place on his own and during that time he doea the work of 3 men! He always tries to surprise me with "new, Improved" features, while still maintaining everything we have started in the last 4 years. Everything takes lots of care because it's still in it's infancy. However, he's just started getting the gardening bug - his love affaair with radishes has caused him to succession sow after he tasted the ones I sowed before I left. Unfortunately, he still doesn't quite grasp the need for trees to be planted as early as possible in Spring to establish them before the oven door of Summer opens. So my 6 citrus trees I was nurturing underroof til last frost date are still lingering in their pots while the driveway has a lovely new layer of stones! But I do appreciate his enthusiasm and he doesn't really begrudge helping me when I get back. He's just so tired after 4 months of constant activity that he grumbles a bit. But if I go out and start digging, he's bound to come out and take over ....... :-)

Thanks for all the additional advice, I shall try zig zaging my trees, there's not much else I can do as the spot is sandwiched between a road to the lower terrace and the bank of the upper terrace - and I feel the benefits gained from wind protection make the site worthy of some effort at creating a microclimate.

Yesterday I fell into a Permies/Youtube wormhole! I was looking at other threads on permies which had youtube links and of course Youtube has the sidebar with other interesting videos so I went through successional planting,  manual seedplanters, aquaponics, grafting, growing from seed from veggie store fruit etc etc and a some point I ended up on this great feed :  https://www.youtube.com/@Miradasbiologicas A lot of it is in Spanish, dubbed to English but there are Spanish only videos that you have to subtext in English. While scrolling through I found this one on Pineapples and thought of you.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXIiKiTVTRA I'm sure you've tried a lot through the years and may already have this resource but it's still worth sharing. He has so many tips on how to make natural rooting hormones, fertilisers and specific composts that for me, a novice, I just want to jump right in!