Please Advise: Low Pressure in Extensive Well Water and Hydrant System

The well system up at the Lab property (with 5+ hydrants, covering several hundred feet in the water line matrix) is consistently struggling with low water pressure. I would like some advice in troubleshooting it. Video footage and symptoms of problems with the pump system are included below. Details of the specific pump used in the pump house are at the end of the video.

To Sum It Up:
We're lacking water pressure in an extensive well water system with 5+ hydrants. We want to push the water at close to 60psi, however the system seems to linger round 30psi, regardless of how long we run it. I would like some help in diagnosing possible problems. I suspect that the pump isn't strong enough to push the water all the way through the system, but there may be also leaks or pipe failures to contend with. Is the behavior of the pressure gauge indicative of that?

More Details:
- Photo of the specific well pump is added to the end of the video.
- I've done some basic maintenance and troubleshooting already, with little success.
- Pressure tank is pumped-up to 58psi.
- I've adjusted the cut-in and cut-off switches.
- 1-inch pipe.
- large cistern with no visible leak problems.
- manual drain outlet seems to provide a normal amount of water. I suspect problems begin at the pump and/or pressure tank.

Please provide any advice or guidance you can. Thanks!

I'm curious about the pressure tank. Volume, name brand, model? Do you mean the internal bladder is pumped up to 58 psi when empty (drained)? Offhand, that seems really high unless the tank specs recommend it. The (ancient) tanks I worked with were usually charged to roughly half that pressure when empty. I vaguely recall that the bladder pressure (drained tank) should be a bit less than the cut-in pressure set on the pressure switch (this may vary based on the equipment -- good time to check the manufacturer's documentation).

If what I'm hearing in the background is the sound of the pump. Then your pump may have a bearing going bad or something is getting worn. They have rebuild kits for those types of pump. Worth a shot of it's been years.

Try do an amp draw test on the pump. I forget what the acceptable ranges are/were. It's been so long. You would have to look up the typical amp draw on the particular pump, then see if the amps you are reading matches or is too high or low. If it's trying to pump up a hill or something and the amps go up that's normal. But anything oddly too high is cause for concern ie. Worn bearing or something. If you do a googles search quick they will say what the amp draw on a well pump tells you. There should be a tag on the pump that gives you all that info too.

As for leaks. Isolate all your lines and put a pressure gauge on her. If the pressure drops then you may have a leak. Or could be a failing check valve if you use those.

But if that's the pump making that noise, then it's def something going on in the pump.

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/eBTiITHVTkU

Took another look at your video. Sounds like either a leak somewhere or the motor is whining trying to pump the water.

Measure the amps when it goes from 20 to 30 psi.

It should be a smooth steady climb on the gauge when it's fidgeting like that. Something leaking, stuck, or the motor is failing and can't keep up to push the water through.

How many feet of elevation are there from the pressure tank gauge to the highest point in the water network?  

I'm thinking it is either A. The Pump, B. The Tank, or C. the Pressure Switch.

Have to tested the pressure switch for functionality?

The pump itself may have issues.

Still, too high a "baseline" pressure in the pressure tank can *cause* issues -- the pump will constantly cycle on/off because it doesn't have a suitable "air spring" in the tank.

What are the on/off set pressures currently on the pressure switch? It costs nothing to play with the baseline pressure in the pressure tank and see how the pump responds. If nothing else, it eliminates one variable.

Stephen B. Thomas wrote: - Pressure tank is pumped-up to 58psi.

I think the tank is supposed to be set to 2psi below the "cut in" pressure of the system.  Not the "cut out" pressure.  For my 30 to 50 psi system, my pressure tank air bladder is at 28psi (when drained).  

Mike Haasl wrote:

Stephen B. Thomas wrote: - Pressure tank is pumped-up to 58psi.

I think the tank is supposed to be set to 2psi below the "cut in" pressure of the system.  Not the "cut out" pressure.  For my 30 to 50 psi system, my pressure tank air bladder is at 28psi (when drained).  

Was thinking the same but then how would the pump come on unless on the video it's manually running.

Rad Anthony wrote:

Mike Haasl wrote:

Stephen B. Thomas wrote: - Pressure tank is pumped-up to 58psi.

I think the tank is supposed to be set to 2psi below the "cut in" pressure of the system.  Not the "cut out" pressure.  For my 30 to 50 psi system, my pressure tank air bladder is at 28psi (when drained).  

Was thinking the same but then how would the pump come on unless on the video it's manually running.

My gut feeling is that since the pump does not have an "air spring" that it can build up it is effectively pushing against a brick wall -- a closed piping system. Liquids basically do not compress, so the pump will grind away (and cycle a lot more than it should) when the pressure switch tells it to.

Just a quick update here, as it's late but I didn't want to leave you all wondering. Thank you for all your input.

Too little time was spent today on tinkering and troubleshooting, though I still think we made some progress.
- I reduced the pressure in the pressure tank to 38psi, as I want to run the tank at a 40-60 cut-in-cut-out setting.
- I tested the tank integrity and pump motor fitness by sealing off the water exhaust from the Pump House. The motor cut out at 45psi. This isn't perfect, but at least it gives me something to go on.
- The pump was running quite a bit today, and we did have some useful pressure at the hydrants while irrigating. So, for however long the pump was working, we appreciate it.
- I don't have details on how high an elevation the pump needs to push water. One of the admitted gaffes of the installation process from back in the day was that the cistern was not at the highest point on the property. We're just "making the best of it."
- There was confirmation that water froze in the pump house this past winter (I was traveling in January-February, and off-site) so yeah, some internal bits of the pump might be hosed.

...All this to say that there still could be a leak in the system somewhere. I'll see what can be done tomorrow.

Oh yeah, there's a cistern too.  Correct me if I'm wrong but is the overall system something like:

- Deep well pump that runs when the sun shines to fill a cistern and overflow into the pond
- Additional solar pump that draws from the cistern and feeds a pressure tank and the water distribution piping around the lab

Another question.  You mention 1" pipe above.  Is that the distribution piping around the lab?  Isn't it like a half a mile long to the farthest point?  Might be a lot of losses in a pipe that small.

Mike Haasl wrote:Oh yeah, there's a cistern too.  Correct me if I'm wrong but is the overall system something like:

- Deep well pump that runs when the sun shines to fill a cistern and overflow into the pond
- Additional solar pump that draws from the cistern and feeds a pressure tank and the water distribution piping around the lab

Got it in one, Mike. :) That "additional solar pump" you mention, powered by batteries stored in the Pump House, is what I'm showing in the video and talking about in this thread. By all signs I can see, the deep well pump is functioning as intended. We have a gravity-fed hydrant outside the Pump House, and that's flowing great, directly out of the cistern. The water line T's off from there to go into the Pump House.

Another question.  You mention 1" pipe above.  Is that the distribution piping around the lab?  Isn't it like a half a mile long to the farthest point?  Might be a lot of losses in a pipe that small.

In order: yes, probably, and I agree. Another Boot here right now is in mechanical engineering, and he was rattling off numbers to approximate how much of a loss we might have across the pipe network. Again, I default to, "we're making the best of it." Damned if I'll be digging it all up and replacing it anytime soon.*


*: Of course, I always feel like I'll soon end up eating my words when I spout off absolutes like that...

Oof, that's part of what I was afraid of (1" pipe).  It's been way too long since I did that sort of math but I can imagine that the far end of that run will act funny.  Like when you open a faucet it will have great pressure for a second and then it would drop to the resistance of the pipe run.  It could be lived with a bit by adding a pressure tank (or accumulation tank) near the end of the run.  That wouldn't help with large water use situations (irrigation with sprinklers) but it would give you however many gallons the pressure tank holds of high pressure before it drops to the amount allowed by the pipe restriction.

Wish I could see your set up. Just going by the sound on the video;
1. I figure the pump is a piston not centrifugal pump.
2. it sounds like it is starving for water entering into the pump causing it to run fast and noisy, then when it gets a slug of water is quiets down.
An amp meter may prove this.  No or low water supply means the pump is not able to move water and therefore will draw low amps.  With an adequate water supply it can pump water, and the amps will be higher reflecting that the pump is working harder.
Assuming your supply source is adequate I would wonder if the suction pipe on the pump is too long, more than 2-4 ft or has more than 2 90-degree elbows in it or is too small.
Again, more information would make a difference.