Self-doubt about future plans for land & house

Sometimes I’m really excited about my future plans to buy land and build a house in New Mexico. My wife and I run the numbers and look at where we’ll be financially in this many and that many years, and all the skills I’ll have by then, and it all seems too good to be true. To be clear, it’s the experience I want, with the material aspects as secondary.

But lately I also sometimes feel crushing disappointment, like it’s a pipe dream, an unrealistic superstimulus shown to me by YouTube algorithms, and the reality is different in every way. Like I won’t actually have the amount of money I think I will. Or the cost of some part of the equation—land, materials, travel expenses (because I’ll have to keep going out there to look at properties), whatever—will be way higher than I’m predicting. Or that what I’m learning about construction now in this part of the country will be irrelevant to construction in another part of the country. Or that I’ve left out some important piece of the equation that I just don’t have the experience to realize exists yet (for example, when I realized that some parcels of land also require you to get permission to go through other peoples land just to access it! Another example would be something to do with the permitting process, which I know next to nothing about). Or like by the time I get to a place in life where I could make it happen, I’ll be too worn out or have lost my ambitiousness or something.

This really gets me down, so I start pivoting the dream itself, making compromises in it before I even get to them. I suppose this is a good exercise, because it helps me maintain at least a kernel of non-attachment to my dreams: as with writing a story, falling in love with your ideas is kind of a recipe for failure. Presumably. But the awareness that I’m doing it is kinda saddening.

I’ve watched my twin brother attempt something kind of like what I want to do, and while he hasn’t exactly failed yet, he’s definitely been beset by some things that could either be described as setbacks or traps, possibly wrong turns. I feel like my plan is leaner and more cautious, with more contingency options baked into it, but still my confidence is shaken pretty badly these days.

Assuming “enough money for land & house” goes well, how am I going to have time to fly out to NM and hunt for land? Last time we moved, just driving around my own city with my realtor looking at houses took a ton of time! What if all the good stuff in my price range is taken? I want to be remote, in a place with tall trees and scenic elevation changes, yet not have to drive an hour to get to a grocery store, hardware store, hospital, or restaurant—is that even possible??

Okay, putting that aside, when am I going to have time to spend out on my land in a tent or camper getting to know its little corners and secret pockets at different times of year so I can site my house in an intelligent way? How am I going to get truckloads of materials out there, even if I manage to salvage many of them for cheap or free? When am I going to have time to assemble them into a house, if I’m still working in Ohio? Even if I can take whole summers off or something like that, living in a camper for months or years while I build a house seems like a kind of roughing it I could do now in my early 40s for a while if I’m motivated by a big prize at the end, but what about when I’m in my 50s? 60s?

I have a high tolerance for this kind of stress, but not infinitely high. I’m not sure where this goes…

Why New Mexico?  If you buy some land there how often will you be able to visit?  For how long?

Have you been to New Mexico?

The best time to buy land is now because everyday the price of land goes up.

I was born and raised in NM by folks who wanted to raise their children in a rural setting and in community, and they found that, near Taos, in the late 60’s. Now I’ve followed in their footsteps, but far from them in a remote patch of northern US forest. We bought our raw off grid land in 2018 and have been transforming it with our four hands, out of pocket with no outside contracted work, for the last seven years.

We weren’t experts at any of it when we started, the learning curve has been precipitous. We lived in a camper for two years while we built. We are nowhere near as far as we thought we’d be in that time, but we are also in awe of where we find ourselves today. We have created a life for ourselves outside of the grind.

I can’t tell you about your own specific make up or circumstance, I can’t tell you what you’ll be able to endure or what you will have to sacrifice, but I can tell you about my experience.

This from-scratch out-of-the-ground life is really, really hard. And if you are anything like me, really, really worth it.

This has been so much more difficult than I ever imagined it would be, and I did not imagine it would be easy. It has cost so much more money than we thought. Our most moderate timelines have been blasted to smithereens. Our bodies have suffered from injury, our spirits have felt bowed to breaking under countless unlooked for storms.

What I had to let go of in order to continue with this dream, was any sort of expectation of finishing - that is a foreign concept now, this is a journey with no final destination. And also, the idea that you need a certain level of comfort in order to keep moving forward.

The conventional push-button life: hot water with a twist of a wrist, hot air with the turn of a dial, internet and Netflix and food that doesn’t talk back, that stuff is lovely and easy and those of us who have become  accustomed to it tend to take it for granted until it goes away.

We have become extremely adept at doing without in the last seven years. If I had not been able to let the trappings of civilization go for a time, I would never have made it here. The question really is one nobody but you can answer: this life is not for everyone. But if you relish freedom above all else, this is one way to find it.

PS- Silver linings are many, but one of the most fun has been coming back to the things I let go. An example: December 17, 2022, was the first time we experienced hot water to the house out of a tap - the most delightful twist of the wrist! As of January 2026, the giddiness and joy from that oh so trivial experience has not lost its luster, at all. Happiness from hot water? My oh my, am I cheap date!

Don’t underestimate just how hard this is - everyone would be doing it if it were easy. But DO try, if it calls to you. It is achievable. Good luck.

PPS- New Mexico is called the Land of Enchantment for good reason, you have simply to look at the sky. Some folks also call it the Land of Entrapment - a cheeky nod to the way it gets its hooks in you and never lets go. Not sure how I got away, but I will always come back. Viva Nuevo Mexico!

Rio Rose wrote:This from-scratch out-of-the-ground life is really, really hard. And if you are anything like me, really, really worth it.

This has been so much more difficult than I ever imagined it would be, and I did not imagine it would be easy. It has cost so much more money than we thought. Our most moderate timelines have been blasted to smithereens. Our bodies have suffered from injury, our spirits have felt bowed to breaking under countless unlooked for storms.

This is so true.  We bought our off grid property when our son was three and before our daughter was born.

Life gets in the way and we didn't do much with the land until 2005 when we bought a trailer and updated it then move it to the property.  

Then our daughter fell in love with the land as much as we did.  

She updated the trailer, bought adjoining land, bought more land, built three cabins and runs an AirBNB.

She is living my dream.

Ned, I did what you are planing. Because I focus on lasting beauty and not on functional disposobility it costs a lot of sacrifice.
It helps to be debt free low spender with flexible job, so quality materials can be purchased and labor paid. I would not rely on any "youtube algorithms" (whatever it means) - all my calculation for time and money turned out to be irrelevant, because as Rio said - it's a process, part of life. Life is too short and f you really want to do it, it's better to dive earlier than later. It may turn out to be different (or more diffucult) than what you envision, but net result will be more positive happiness.

Sounds like you need to get started asap.  The energy you're putting into worrying will be better used to deal with all the real and unexpected difficulties that'll come up while you're putting the thing into practice, which might be harder in some sense, but will probably be a lot more healthy, and certainly more productive.

In the OP I described having negative feelings, but I did not make it clear enough that I don’t feel this way all the time, especially when I sense I have sufficient knowledge. So, knowledge is what I was after when I wrote the OP, even though I think part of me wanted to hear "it's a good sign that you think about these things". From your responses I got what I needed to hear instead. Thanks everyone for your comments.

I know there are situations where calculation only leads to paralysis. For my wife and me, becoming parents was like that: we knew there was never going to be a "right time" to have kids, and that if we waited for one it would never happen. At least some parts of the land-buying and house-building process will be like that too, I have no doubt.

What I get from this that I should take calculated risks, and not cut myself off to a great opportunity just because "it wasn't part of the plan". I find that very uplifting. Thanks again.

Okay, now responding to select quotes from...

Anne miller:

Why New Mexico?"

When I was a kid in Cleveland, my grandparents (who I lived with) took a trip to New Mexico one year and came back and talked about it for the rest of the time I lived with them. I didn't grow up thinking about other random states like Idaho or Delaware much, but New Mexico was always "on my radar" after that.

That might be why when my wife and I moved across the country I made sure we stayed in Santa Fe on the way through, and again on the move back! My interest in New Mexico as a place to maybe move to might have started with those brief stays.

During one my most troubled adult years, one of the bright lights on the horizon for me was this possible job in Taos I'd interviewed for. Fantasies of escaping Los Angeles for Taos, and the kind of life I'd have there, kept me afloat during those dark months. Now that I'm thinking of it, maybe part of why I like the idea of moving to that region is because I've had some practice liking the idea of moving to that region!

But I think my lasting attraction to NM is from all I've learned about it since, a combination of the history, the ecology & geography (I don't like to call it "scenery"), the climate, and what I know of the people & culture. I am in awe of Taos and Santa Fe as cultural and sort of spiritual landmarks.

I have heard NM offers procedural advantages as well if you are building in a non-conventional way, at least in certain parts of the state. (I am fairly uninterested in building a conventional house.) NM has the added bonus of being (it seems to me?) relatively affordable.

What else? I have an extremely positive impression of basically everyone I've ever met from NM. I love the food. I love chili peppers in particular. I dig the demonym "New Mexican"--it's the best. I even think New Mexico's license plates are the coolest. It's a state that's huge, it's beautiful, it's weird, it's empty..."enchanting" is so well-deserved an adjective it's almost trite, but it's simply true to say the place enchants me.

If you buy some land there how often will you be able to visit?  For how long?

That is the kind of thing I will have to do math on, but I know that I will want to visit it at least a few times a year, for durations as long as I can afford that also make it worthwhile.

Rio Rose:
Your story resonates with me! I am in awe of the sacrifice and surrender you gave to your deep drive to fulfill something important, to live a meaningful life, to be true to yourself, to “find your freedom” as you wonderfully put it. It reminds me of the wise saying, “lean into the points”.

So…why did you leave?

Anne Miller again:

She is living my dream.

It sounds like at least one person (your daughter) has been able to buy land and build a home (multiple homes!) on it. I wonder, does she see it as the stressful all-consuming never-ending labor of love that many others do, or does she generally consider it a successful endeavor?

Jojo Cameron:
Thanks, I needed to hear that.

I bought my 20acres 53 years or so ago, 15km from a regional town, in Victoria, Australia.
I lived 2 1/2 hrs and 200km away but my work took me through often and it was isolated.
I started building a decent home about 45 years ago, but I hand built a small cottage 10ft x 15ft which I used for years
prior to that.
My home is now about 1200sq. ft
I just built slowly while I helped many others build theirs.
A couple og bits of advise;
- Avoid any  parcel of land also require you to get permission to go through other peoples land just to access it!
- be patient
- start small and add to the house.
- build a shower, rainwater system, basic kitchen and a rough toilet at the start.
- then add and change the use of the rooms as the new space grows.
- plant trees early on.

Ned, never lose your hope, you can make all this happen. At this moment in time you are 22 hours drive from SantamFe area, true. But you build skills now that will crucial going forward.  
If you garden now, even if in containers or a community garden , you will prosper. Take on some carpentry projects, learn about cob and lime plaster by building a cooking area outdoors. We can all do more , as I tell our teenager,  I urge him to read, study, experience the world away from Minecraft and Elder Scrolls online. Just think of how incremental skill building will help you find that dream and live it....more motivation to keep your goal alive.  

Other idea you might consider: look for land now. It isnt getting cheaper.  You could potentially own it outright by the time you move to New Mexico , if all the stars align.

I have biked and hiked all over that great state,  you will be glad you moved in a few years, keep your chin up and work on your plan bit by bit.  

I think Thomas Edison said it best, ,,,genius is one percent inspiration and 99% perspiration

Ned, thanks for your words. At the risk of hijaaking your thread into a love fest for NM (as worthy a rabbit hole as that surely would be)…

What madness caused me to leave sun-drenched New Mexico?  I’ll simply say that we have and are becoming increasingly feral humans over the years, drawn to natural spaces where the ratio of people to wild things is heavily weighted on the wild side, and the northern forests along the Canadian border certainly fits that bill for us. There is also very little regulation, land was cheap at the time, no need for building permits, etc.

It seemed to us if we wanted to get lost for a lifetime in wilderness and try our hands at carving a piece of it to hold us, this would be a good spot. And it is. I only see other humans if I wish to, most days. If I could have NM closer though, I surely would!

PS. The advice to start now, in whatever way and place you can, however small -is one I’d heartily second. Our pace has been slow by anyone’s standards I think, in no small part because we added the caveat of maintaining zero debt without a safety net and fat bank accounts. But the snail’s pace has also been a true boon, because it has allowed us to fix mistakes before we set them in stone. If we had met with a designer to turn our initial plans into reality and paid money we didn’t have for a home that went up in less than a year, this place would be far more ‘finished’ but would also be vastly different, and it would not work so well for us. Plus we'd be sitting on a pile of debt!

We didn’t start this as contractors and designers and builders with decades of experience in the various fields; we have learned those skills as we’ve gone along, and that education takes a lot of time and energy, but once gained, it serves you for life. Wherever you choose to take it! Suerte Ned!

We're in a similar "stalled in neutral" situation.

We were going to sell my husband's business and move to a more rural setting when my daughter graduated college. Thanks to a pandemic, an economic crash and various other factors, this was about 5 years ago and no move, just keeps dragging on with no end in sight.
For a while we were surfing online and making ourselves ill ("look at this farm we're missing! prices are going up!") but at this point I just don't think about it. Things will happen as they happen.
In the meantime, everything we do is accumulating skillsets, tools and knowledge.
We're older than you, so we're also accumulating mileage and realizing that maybe the hard stuff is going to be harder than we thought. It is what it is, as they say.
We're noticing that things may end up being different. We thought my daughter would graduate and move abroad, and we'd be free to move closer to my mother-in-law and place I love (the farms we're looking at are in the suburban metro area of a major city). As it turns out the kid might stay where we are right now and that big move might not happen. My mother and mother in law are both getting to the age where they may need live-in help, which would also involve moves. My work has gotten very unpredictable and it seems like maybe selling the husband's business might be unwise. Meanwhile, the world is getting turbulent. Nothing is predictable and maybe the plan we thought was set in stone might not be the best course to take anyway. Had we moved a few years ago as expected, we might be in a bad place to respond to these new developments. It's hard to tell.

I'm finding the best thing I can do right now is try to enjoy every day where I am. What did I learn this week? What good did I do this week?
There's a content creator who talks about using the 'waiting room' you're stuck in. it sounds like you're doing just that.

Of course, I don’t have your eyes to look through. In my case, I bought the land several states away, built a cabin shell ..then I pulled the trigger, quit my job, sold my house, and moved.   I lived on my new homestead for 4 years and sold it.  The problem was neighbors…something I never anticipated.

I dove back into the mainstream, bought 6 acres with a house and another 5 attached acres. Then I pulled the trigger again.  The second time it worked. Of course, I made certain I had great neighbors.

( I had to post this early…my dog was sounding a serious alarm).  I have no regrets regarding the first attempt. I learned a great deal.  Key to everything is that my wife was on board with each step.  At times we were pretty poor. And, there were many frustrations.

In the end comes your and your family’s decision to pull the trigger and weather the storm. How poor are you willing to live and with how many frustrations?

If living in suburbia better fits your expectations, I see no sin in that.

John F Dean wrote:.....I learned a great deal.  Key to everything is that my wife was on board with each step.  At times we were pretty poor. And, there were many frustrations.

I have to admit we rather lucked into our situation, athough with the temps now again hovering around zero for a third straight week, this may be relative to your tastes and thresholds.

We parked a 20-ft caravan/camper trailer at a local KOA campground (are those still in existence?) while I started my career job in the early 90s....my wife watched over rabbits, poultry and a pot-bellied pig and perused the real estate ads.  Her background was fine with older run-down farm-houses while I was more interested something rural, but turnkey and more modern.  Fortunately, her find won the day...the property was closer to work, had the largest amount of acreage (~20 acres) with a river running through it, had great soil and a working water well and electrical, but an old farmhouse that even the real-estate agent said was not worth more than $20K.  So in 1992 we bought the whole property for $60K.

Although we've pieced together outbuildings and re-inforced the house, the property was the focus of efforts.....fencing for wife's animals, garden establishment, native prairie resoration in what was big-ag corn and soybeans, tree/windbreak planting, etc.  In retrospect as I pondered having to build from scratch, I realized how much a good large garage/pole building can give shelter to people, pets, and valuable items while establishing the living situation.....and were I to do it again, would erect a large-ish pole building first and build or add an attached home onto that building.   As others have noted, whether or not a property comes with a home already in place, you can always start small and build outward or upward as your needs and desires suit you.

Also as others have noted, it helps to develop a sort of calm in 'rolling with the punches'---perhaps easier with age.  As I type this, I'm getting ready to finally retrieve my car that I stuck in a snowbank about a mile away....it's been there now a few days.  Previously, I would have had my knickers in a twist, needing to get it out ASAP and home before night's end.  But wife needed the truck for a previous appointment the next day and I didn't really want to have to make the "call of shame" to the local towing service to pull it out.  Both wife and I would have been wringing our hands over the incident in earlier times until it was resolved....now, just more calm and patience--the journey as much as the destination.  Besides, today we will be able to do the task while basking in the glow of 4 degree F sunshine! :-)

Rio, please look at this topic about debt.
/mortgages-good-debt-bad-debt
Please look past the mantra about all debt being bad.
I have no idea how that evolved, but I believe many people suffer because they dont consider the issue properly.

UHI Ned! I’m z (: I was reading through this post and oh my goodness so many comments! I lost patience and just wanted to respond so sorry if I repeat what others have said.

So I’m from Cleveland too and just moved out to Taos with my partner in October!! I got a job working as a builder of passive solar homes with a nonprofit called Ecohab (check it out if you haven’t yet!). So I really love all of the paths colliding here!

Right now we’re building a 1000 sqft adobe brick passive solar house with a well and on grid (mouth full!). It’s freaking stunning so far and I’m not sure all in all how much the land cost, but the home itself is about 300k (this isn’t an “affordable” model necessarily) to build and we’re doing it in about 8 monthsish.

We’re moving into an affordable model of passive solar homes to meet the needs here in Taos since housing is actually effing crazy out here. We’re going to go for a less labor intensive model than adobe brick (to save on labor expenses to keep the home affordable) but a home that still has good massive and insulating properties. We’re going to build 4 homes with a 1000 and 1200 sqft model. We will hopefully begin those soon! So once those are finished I will actually be able to tell you how much a home like that would cost.

But I also wanted to share my thoughts on moving to Taos:

There are pros and cons of course, but oh my god is it so much more expensive than Ohio. That’s the thing that constantly gets me and I’m floored about it because it’s such a poor state. But living in Taos is like living on an island, it’s so remote and there’s not a lot of things available in town. A lot of people try to search on Facebook and Craigslist, but because there’s such low supply, they charge an arm for it.

There’s a small Walmart and several thrift stores and that’s where we’ve gotten pretty much everything (as in there’s no where else to get things). The restores in town are awesome and sell things for the cheapest cheapness and we love it!

The grocery stores are outrageous here. I freaking miss Aldi so bad, and the closest Costco is in ABQ. And I’m not really a consumer or a big box type of person, but I don’t have food stored from last year, so we’re going to the store for every little thing and it freaking hurts the wallet. The cost of living does equate with the wages out here. So one of those remote well paid jobs would actually be helpful.

I feel like it would be nice to live closer to Santa Fe or ABQ simply for the ease of living and getting things. Which you most definitely will need to build a home, especially if you don’t have connections. I don’t know what it’s like in their stores in terms of pricing, but their gas is always 20 cents cheaper than up here. When we were looking for rent, there were always cheaper options in Santa Fe.

But yeah, sometimes I hop on Craigslist Cleveland and see that thing i need right there for $20 bucks, and when i switch it Taos, that item is 5 hours away in Colorado Springs for $150 so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  shit like that is kind of annoying

BUT THE ART HERE IS LOVELY the architecture is lovely, the food is not so lovely unless you only eat Mexican food or spend a lot on a nice resto.

The hikes are fabulous, the sunsets are beautiful when the mountains turn pink. Oh my god I have never experienced this much SUNSHINE! I keep getting sunburnt on accident! It’s rained like 3 times since I’ve been here, it’s insane.  

But if the desert calls you, this might be your place!

My advice- bring as much shit from Ohio as you can. Maybe buy a camper out there to drive over here and live out of while you look for your land and build your home. Good Luck!

Hey everyone, thanks again for the further replies.

I guess I have mentioned having "plans", but I haven't really described my "plan"--I do have one, and I'll describe some of it below.

Several of you said some version of "don't wait, start now". I'd say I took my first real step on that path a couple years ago when I became a home inspector. It was my gateway to the trades (I had zero trades experience before that, not even anyone in my family was in the trades), and half a year after I got my home inspector license I became a full-time electrician.

Now I'm a year and half into that career (and still doing home inspections almost every weekend), and it has already opened my eyes to more aspects of home building/maintenance/etc. than even home inspecting did, because I get to see it in action, be part of the action, and most importantly it has transformed my mentality toward "doing", and what kinds of things I am able to accomplish.

So, continuing to learn all that stuff is something I can do and am doing now.

In the next few years, the plan is then to try and get out to NM, look at properties, save up, and buy land, at which point we'll basically have a private campground. It'll be a quiet getaway we can visit a few times a year (by then our kids will be older/more independent and my wife and I will both be making more money), and eventually what I'd want to do is buy a camper or RV to park on it. Then I want to build a simple pole barn or something over the RV, and then that will become "base camp" (as well as a place to store materials) while we gradually build the house. Once the house is done, maybe I'll turn part of that pole barn into an ADU.

Each of those little steps has lots of little "but what if this happens or that happens" type questions, things that could go wrong, etc. and those gnaw at me sometimes, and that's what led me to write the OP. But I think the plan itself is solid, and I see similarities in some of the stories y'all have shared. What do you think?

Anyway, I also have written a plan/concept for the house itself (it's in a word doc), like how I'm going to choose the site, how I'll build the foundation, what kind of framing I want to do, how big a footprint I'd make, floorplan, material choices, roof pitch calculated based on winter and summer sun angles, even down to how I want to lay out the plumbing drain line and sketching out a schedule of electrical circuits and devices. But that is more for fun because I know a ton of things will change. I share that mainly to let you know I have thought about it systematically.

I was feeling positive before seeing your plan.  Now,I would change that to "emphatic 12 thumbs up"

Keep the faith, my friend!

I think because you’re building in small stages, there is less chance of things going terribly wrong. You can take it one step at a time, think carefully about each step as it comes up, and only move on to the next stage once you’re ready.

Buying land: If you do your research, choose carefully, and know what to expect then there’s not a whole lot that can go wrong.

Building: You can build in stages, and there are things that can happen along the way, but because you’ve planned to do this slowly, you’re not going to get overwhelmed by all the possible cost blowouts all at once, and if something ends up too expensive, you can just wait a bit.

With our place, some things have gone wrong or not according to plan along the way, and we’ve just dealt with them as they’ve come, and have never regretted our decision.

for about the past two years ive been watching this guy on YouTube his channel is called cabin river outdoors. I think he is a great inspiration watching his off grid progress. I support him by subscribing to his channel and letting the ads play all the way though. he is doing it, started with raw land barely anything, and is thriving way way out in the off grid woods of Canada. the moral of the story is that you just have to jump in with both feet. plan your work, work your plan. and deal with whatever it is as it comes at you.

[youtube]@cabinriveroutdoors[/youtube].    

To be clear y’all, being off-grid is not a goal of mine. More like a thing I would approach system by system based on necessity only. Like, if I had to choose between two otherwise equivalent properties where one is on-grid and the other off, I would opt for on.

I gather that in NM solar PV is way more popular for at-home generation than in OH so I’m guessing it works well out there for people who use it and that I’d be more likely to find a neighbor who knows the best place to buy parts or who can recommend what works for him/her and what to expect performance-wise. And I’ve installed enough backup generators to feel comfortable including that in the plan if necessary. At some point in the next 5 years I’ll get miniature versions of these to play around with. (I also know where on my planned house I’d put the solar panels, and it sure as heck ain’t on the roof!)

I am much less sure about septic/waste systems but at least am familiar with how it works and what the pieces and parts are. I’m even willing to have one of my (two planned) toilets be composting.

It seems like designing a roof for rainwater catchment and installing large cisterns works well even in arid NM for water if your cistern capacity is high enough; I have more to learn about filtration systems.

Fuel (propane, probably) if necessary, at least seems straightforward to me.

So this is all to say I feel mentally ready to tackle off-grid or “stand-alone” systems if necessary, but they are not part of my plans or aspirations to start with.

It seems like designing a roof for rainwater catchment and installing large cisterns works well even in arid NM for water if your cistern capacity is high enough; I have more to learn about filtration systems.

Ned, can I suggest you may be confusing yourself about rainwater.
Cisterns are underground water containers built with blocks to resist collapse and very expensive. And can leak undetected.
In Australia, we only use first flush systems tocatch the initial crud and divert it away from the water store.
After that time and air is always enough to clean the water.
Trust me any sort of filtration, UV lights, ionisation etc is not required.

Why 2 toilets, one is usually enough?

Ned Harr wrote:Sometimes I’m really excited about my future plans to buy land and build a house in New Mexico. My wife and I run the numbers and look at where we’ll be financially in this many and that many years, and all the skills I’ll have by then, and it all seems too good to be true. To be clear, it’s the experience I want, with the material aspects as secondary.

But lately I also sometimes feel crushing disappointment, like it’s a pipe dream, an unrealistic superstimulus shown to me by YouTube algorithms, and the reality is different in every way. Like I won’t actually have the amount of money I think I will. Or the cost of some part of the equation—land, materials, travel expenses (because I’ll have to keep going out there to look at properties), whatever—will be way higher than I’m predicting. Or that what I’m learning about construction now in this part of the country will be irrelevant to construction in another part of the country. Or that I’ve left out some important piece of the equation that I just don’t have the experience to realize exists yet (for example, when I realized that some parcels of land also require you to get permission to go through other peoples land just to access it! Another example would be something to do with the permitting process, which I know next to nothing about). Or like by the time I get to a place in life where I could make it happen, I’ll be too worn out or have lost my ambitiousness or something.

This really gets me down, so I start pivoting the dream itself, making compromises in it before I even get to them. I suppose this is a good exercise, because it helps me maintain at least a kernel of non-attachment to my dreams: as with writing a story, falling in love with your ideas is kind of a recipe for failure. Presumably. But the awareness that I’m doing it is kinda saddening.

I’ve watched my twin brother attempt something kind of like what I want to do, and while he hasn’t exactly failed yet, he’s definitely been beset by some things that could either be described as setbacks or traps, possibly wrong turns. I feel like my plan is leaner and more cautious, with more contingency options baked into it, but still my confidence is shaken pretty badly these days.

Assuming “enough money for land & house” goes well, how am I going to have time to fly out to NM and hunt for land? Last time we moved, just driving around my own city with my realtor looking at houses took a ton of time! What if all the good stuff in my price range is taken? I want to be remote, in a place with tall trees and scenic elevation changes, yet not have to drive an hour to get to a grocery store, hardware store, hospital, or restaurant—is that even possible??

Okay, putting that aside, when am I going to have time to spend out on my land in a tent or camper getting to know its little corners and secret pockets at different times of year so I can site my house in an intelligent way? How am I going to get truckloads of materials out there, even if I manage to salvage many of them for cheap or free? When am I going to have time to assemble them into a house, if I’m still working in Ohio? Even if I can take whole summers off or something like that, living in a camper for months or years while I build a house seems like a kind of roughing it I could do now in my early 40s for a while if I’m motivated by a big prize at the end, but what about when I’m in my 50s? 60s?

I have a high tolerance for this kind of stress, but not infinitely high. I’m not sure where this goes…

My suggestion?

1. Do not overthink. Everything is figureoutable! And despite what the world tells you, most things can be backed out of at a later date with little lost.

2. No one knows the future.

Myself, I grew up on a farm having been in the family since 1746 when my Great Grandfather to the 11th power died fighting for the King. In 1775 we joined the Rebels and were allowed to keep what we had. I took over the farm in 1992, and bought it from my father in 2011. Then I got divorced in 2023 and ended up having to sell it. All 400 acres of a farm of 11 generations.

Its sad, but not.

I am now free.

I have owed a beautiful Victorian Home on a river, fixed it up and sold it and now live on an island, off an island, off a peninsula on a point of land that has view of the ocean from every window in the house… including the laundry room. None of that would have been possible had I been saddled with my farm and the property taxes thereof.

Life is good now, not that life was bad when I was farming: it is just different. But the skills I learned, my understanding of animals, property, houses and systems have all enabled me to be where I am today. Not better off, not worse, just different.

I would have never envisioned I would be here in life, but no one can predict the future. And if island life does not work out, we sell the place and move somewhere else. EVERYTHING is figureoutable.

So be bold. Live out your life as you see fit and roll with it when given challenges. Were not our ancestors bold in floating across an ocean to come here with little resources? You are truly only defeated when you wallow in regret!

Hi Ned, your situation somewhat reminds me of building the home I presently live in.

Like you, I had a profound dream, and when the patch of ground came available, it was as though it was speaking directly to me.'

But your hesitation and what you are calling doubt, I call caution and maybe a bit of buyers remorse come early.  These two feelings/emotions are actually good to have as you are getting a grounded and realistic idea of all the tasks ahead of you.  My personal thoughts are that if you think that you can afford all these things, I would go ahead and do it, but do it with eyes wide open.  If I could make one change to my home buying project, I would have added my tractor to the picture at the very beginning of construction.  It would have been soooooooo helpful to have that machinery during construction time.  But of course  I ended up getting it later!

In my case, I had a whole list of objectives I wanted to accomplish==and I was barely 30 years old.  Now I am in my 50s and I am still working on some of those projects.  But as I have seasoned, those projects have aged well and the details refined.  I did not get them all done at once--I am still working on several.  But I continue to have projects to do.


I suspect that you will have something similar.  Obviously I have not seen the property, but if you start by building something relatively small but sturdy, you can always add to it.  And if you have plans for outbuildings, those can be built as well.

Overall, good that you are feeling sober about this plan--it means that you are being realistic.  I still think that your plan is probably doable (but you are the true judge), but listen to those voices of caution, and don't be afraid of a challenge--its how we grow as human beings!


Please let me know your thoughts.  Ultimately, this is your call and I completely respect your decision.


Eric

Lets start with the down side and work up.  Pick what ever your worst case is double the cost and double the time.  It is rough.  Then ask what you haven't thought of (especially those that will cost you money).  Power, water, sewer, internet(being someone to rural to have cell service that is noticed here) soil conditions, frost line for depth of bury, access roads and do they need to be gravel, water rights, mineral rights, right of ways for (road, water line, sewer etc).  Build that list.  I would include must haves, things you can work around every where, things you can work around in some jurisdictions etc.  Know the costs of each too.  For example power pole and line here are basically $10k per pole.  2 poles worth and you have almost fully paid for an off grid system.

Now lets look at your dreams list.  Timbered?  New Mexico certainly has some but guessing you will be disappointed in that most will be slightly better than scrub brush like pinion pine etc and most of the truly tall tree areas will private rich people preserves, federal lands etc.  Cheaper land will likely not have much of that and if it does it will likely not be close to town.  Figure out now order of compromises you are willing to make.  Is close to town more important, timber more important etc.  Remember also as you age close to town goes up in importance, not being snowed in matters etc.  Study and be sure your dreams are reasonable.  Once you have a concrete list of priorities you can always do a little shopping by email and phone and figure out that at least for today what you need to save to make your dream possible.  

Now positive side.  If you are roughing it everything will take 4 times as long.  But if you plan ahead most of roughing it can be eliminated.  You would like to be able to live there for a while before building the permanent home.  You want power, water etc immediately.  Well you have RV's, travel trailer, tiny homes etc that can give you that.  Might want to check what the common rules on those for NM are for all of those.  One might be better than the others legally.  Then lets look at a traveling non-habitable skid to put with any one of these.  Composting toilet so no black water and no need for water.  Probably 2 big water storage tanks.  One as a cistern with say 500 to 1500 gallons of storage but insulated and protected from the sun. (probably want 1500)  That would give you 2 to 3 weeks of storage with careful but semi normal modern living.  Second hot water tank probably about 1000 gallons for hot water storage design to be heated with solar thermal and heavily insulated.  Don't get stuck on the word tank on this one.  Big wood box built like a concrete form with walers, plywood liner.  Insulation liner, secondary water seal plastic, inner insulation and then lined with a EDPM liner.  Goal is to get ride of the need for heating systems and for hot water heater long term.  No trips to town for fuel and not needing a big propane tank for those things.  On the roof PVT panels probably need to fold up so transport is more reasonable. T heating the water tank and PV doing other stuff. Probably want a big air tank  on this too so you have stored air for construction and emergenices.  Small air pump filling it steadily off the solar.   And the batteries to take you mostly off grid.  Large tool battery charging station too so it can keep you in batteries to build the home.  Then a condensing washer drier combo in one or the other because you want to keep as much water as possible because there is a good chance you will want to save every drop of water possible.  Possibly a gray water treatment system so you can better reuse your gray water.  You will want a gutters system on this to collect the rain water to more storage tanks on site.  Probably want some sort of gutter system and solar panels built on to the roof of the RV / trailer for more energy and more water gathering capacity.  Now remember you want your living site as close as possible to your work site.   The whole goal is when you are on site you want to maximize your ability to work without the distractions of life where possible.  Minimize trips to town.  

What else can you do from far away to take in?  You will likely need a materials storage shed while building.  Can you build it at home in 8 foot panels and simply haul in and erect maybe.  You will want trees and plants so maybe an early trip after you know where you should be is gathering seed from local varieties you want so you can grow more to bring in?  What else?

Catching up on replies--thank you!

John C Daley:

Thanks for the info re. rainwater catchment. Yes, I meant tanks. I thought I saw these also called cisterns sometimes, but maybe I was confused. Tanks may be buried as well, right? To help block UV and inhibit microbial growth? That's new info about no filtration being required...is it possibly a regional thing? Maybe someone who does rainwater catchment in NM will relate their experience.

Why 2 toilets: I have a couple reasons. I want two so that if one is occupied and the other person (or a guest) needs to go... Another reason is redundancy. Another reason is I like having one right by the entrance (the second toilet would be in a little cubicle just off the pantry/mud/laundry/utility room), because I have found that pulling into my driveway after I've been in the car awhile somehow always sends a signal to my bladder. I've got the basic house design laid out so that adding the second toilet could be easily done as a later iteration if for some reason I can't install it right away.

Steve Zoma:

Thanks! Yes, I agree, everything is figureoutable. I like what you said about life's journey. It's another way of saying something I have thought for a while, that unless someone is suicidal, one does not get to savor their regrets: but for the negative things that happened in my life, I would not be who I am now in the life I now have, and I wouldn't trade that for the world! So yeah, I expect that will continue to be true.

Eric Hanson:

To be clear, I don't have the property yet. I have some qualities I'm looking for in a property. Some aspects of my plan are ambitious (moving back across the country a third time, buying a large piece of land, building my own house probably in my 50s or 60s). Other aspects of my plan seem conservative and within my capabilities (the house will be modest, I know how to be resourceful, I am already comfortable with residential electrical work and getting comfortable with other aspects of residential construction, my plan for the house's design is well thought out and continues to undergo refinement as I learn more).

C. Letellier:

Sorry, just saw your comment now! I have to cook dinner but later I will read it closely and edit this to include my response to you.

Ned, tanks cannot be buried, the soil will collapse them.
UV is not an issue.
Water filtration and treatment I believe is a commercial thing, pushed by companies to sell a product you may not need.
I am a Civil Engineer who worked in water supply.
Municipal systems are treated and filtered because of the nature of public ultilities.
Domestic use will not diminish the need for good water, good management will be ok.
Unless you live under a flight path, a spray zone etc or have pelicans on the roof.

Well water often needs treatment to make it water that is safe to use.

C. Letellier, I decided to just do a separate response so it'd be easier for you to find:

You have written a good way of describing my thought process when I am being analytical and hard-eyed about my plans. Sometimes this has a side-effect of being discouraging. But you also provide some useful ways of climbing out of that emotional trap. The tricky thing for me right now is, I don't have any hard numbers to throw at it at all because I haven't even visited any prospective properties yet (and won't be able to for at least a couple years), so I am susceptible to catastrophizing here a bit.

Re. the balance of timbered/remote/etc. I know I will have to find some optimization point. I am also confident in the universe to provide something "just right", as it always has so far. Or it won't, in which case it wasn't gonna happen. One thing I've heard is not to rely on Zillow but on word of mouth etc., the guy whose uncle is selling land quietly, etc. Hard to do from the other side of the country, but not impossible. So I look at Zillow listings for fun, but consider them as reference, proxies, for use only as guidance and expectation-setting.

Good info wrt water storage, I'll keep that in consideration.

If I do PVT panels I would want to not put them up on the roof where they are hard to access/maintain; I'm really not sure why people put them on roofs unless they have no other sunny place for them. And I hear tons of people say "one thing I wish I'd done differently was not put them on the roof"

Good idea re. air tank powered by solar, I like that.

I like your idea about planting trees early, that's brilliant.

John C Daley:

Thanks for letting me know you can't bury tanks. I thought I saw people bury them (like when building Earthships?) but maybe that was something else or I misremembered. Anyway if they don't need to be buried, fine. I will also take your advice about rainwater filtration (lack of need for) into consideration, thanks!

John C Daley wrote:Ned, tanks cannot be buried, the soil will collapse them.
UV is not an issue.
Water filtration and treatment I believe is a commercial thing, pushed by companies to see a product you may not need.
I am a Civil Engineer who worked in water supply.
Municipal systems are treated and filtered because of the nature of public ultilities.
Domestic use will not diminish the need to good water, good management will be ok.
Unless you live under a flight path, a spray zone etc or have pelicans on the roof.

Well water often needs treatment to make it water that is safe to use.

You are so right on this. Just last week a water quality company quoted us a price of $45,000 to build a system to treat our well water. But he admitted a funny thing. Since our iron levels are 37% and his system could only take out 12%, he said we would need three of his systems to get where we needed to be. But that reminded me of the time I had sheep and the selenium in the feed was deficient. The sheep nutritionist, paid by the grain company, said to get the selenium needed we needed to give the sheep three times the amount of grain. When I said "why not just supplement with selenium mineral mix", he said, "because we do not sell that". Yes... he wanted me to buy three times more grain just to get what wee little bit of selenium they put in it. Needless to say I went in a different direction.

I will for our water to get it cleaned up as well. I think I can get it cleaned up for $6,000 in equipment, but we shall see.

What water is needed to be cleaned?

Ned Harr wrote:Sometimes I’m really excited about my future plans to buy land and build a house in New Mexico. My wife and I run the numbers and look at where we’ll be financially in this many and that many years, and all the skills I’ll have by then, and it all seems too good to be true. To be clear, it’s the experience I want, with the material aspects as secondary.

But lately I also sometimes feel crushing disappointment, like it’s a pipe dream, an unrealistic superstimulus shown to me by YouTube algorithms, and the reality is different in every way. Like I won’t actually have the amount of money I think I will. Or the cost of some part of the equation—land, materials, travel expenses (because I’ll have to keep going out there to look at properties), whatever—will be way higher than I’m predicting. Or that what I’m learning about construction now in this part of the country will be irrelevant to construction in another part of the country. Or that I’ve left out some important piece of the equation that I just don’t have the experience to realize exists yet (for example, when I realized that some parcels of land also require you to get permission to go through other peoples land just to access it! Another example would be something to do with the permitting process, which I know next to nothing about). Or like by the time I get to a place in life where I could make it happen, I’ll be too worn out or have lost my ambitiousness or something.

This really gets me down, so I start pivoting the dream itself, making compromises in it before I even get to them. I suppose this is a good exercise, because it helps me maintain at least a kernel of non-attachment to my dreams: as with writing a story, falling in love with your ideas is kind of a recipe for failure. Presumably. But the awareness that I’m doing it is kinda saddening.

I’ve watched my twin brother attempt something kind of like what I want to do, and while he hasn’t exactly failed yet, he’s definitely been beset by some things that could either be described as setbacks or traps, possibly wrong turns. I feel like my plan is leaner and more cautious, with more contingency options baked into it, but still my confidence is shaken pretty badly these days.

Assuming “enough money for land & house” goes well, how am I going to have time to fly out to NM and hunt for land? Last time we moved, just driving around my own city with my realtor looking at houses took a ton of time! What if all the good stuff in my price range is taken? I want to be remote, in a place with tall trees and scenic elevation changes, yet not have to drive an hour to get to a grocery store, hardware store, hospital, or restaurant—is that even possible??

Okay, putting that aside, when am I going to have time to spend out on my land in a tent or camper getting to know its little corners and secret pockets at different times of year so I can site my house in an intelligent way? How am I going to get truckloads of materials out there, even if I manage to salvage many of them for cheap or free? When am I going to have time to assemble them into a house, if I’m still working in Ohio? Even if I can take whole summers off or something like that, living in a camper for months or years while I build a house seems like a kind of roughing it I could do now in my early 40s for a while if I’m motivated by a big prize at the end, but what about when I’m in my 50s? 60s?

I have a high tolerance for this kind of stress, but not infinitely high. I’m not sure where this goes…

After considerable thought, I think if you boil the fat and skim off the dross, what you really might be asking yourself is an extremely poignant question, and really one all humans face at some point in their lives.

Do I live adventurously, or do I live comfortably.

There is no right or wrong answer to that.

As a person that embraces change and buying and flipping houses, I forever live in dumps, making them great, then selling and moving on to the next dump. New areas, new neighbors, new challenges and new insights. But do not for a moment think I often do not look on those that have chose a different lifestyle and chose to be comfortable. Oh I get why people do that! It’s boring, but easy, whereas my life can be interesting, but challenging.

Myself, I think living boldly produces more personal growth. An example is this house: when we moved in it was four days before we got the water to work, five days before we got heat going, and just now; three months later, have a functioning kitchen. But we worked through those problems taking them on one at a time. To me that builds character and shows my children, you can always improve your situation.

At 52 years old, a lot of people my age wallow in a mid-life crisis, but despite having brain cancer, endured two other types of cancer, been married and divorced a few times, lost a son as a stillborn, and endured a plethora of other personal setbacks, I have traveled the world, written 19 novels, had the wife and kids on a farm, and now live on an island far out to sea. None of that has been easy, but I have also never had a midlife crisis.

When given the chance to be comfortable or be adventurous: I have chosen the latter.

Most people on here are of the latter type; they began to grow weary of a comfortable life.

Is it a better choice? Only you can answer, and it also depends on what your life-partner is capable of because for a lot of couples one might not be as adventurous as the other. But I will say this: at ANYTIME I can sell my place on this island, buy a condo in Bangor and live out my days in comfort. Those however who have chosen a comfortable life, cannot go back and live out the adventurous opportunities they have had in life, but gave up in the interest of comfort.

But this post deserves a huge caveat because only you can answer if that question... do I want to live comfortably or adventurously... applies to your situation here. I might be completely off base, and if I am, I do not mean to offend, but hopefully getting you to think about broad life choices.