do NOT use plastic

from https://permies.com/wiki/102544/pep-food-prep-preservation/PEP-Badge-Food-Prep-Preservation

The following are strictly forbidden:

- Aluminum cookware
- Teflon and similar materials
- Microwave ovens
- Plastic touching the food, including cooking utensils and zip lock bags

Apparently there are a lot of submissions that have plastic.  We will be going through and un-approving those.  And for the people that errantly approved them there will be a BBV penalty.  

It is probably going to cost me money to have the software modified to accommodate solving this mess.

It would be handy if the peppers that made the approving boo boo could lend a hand in getting this all sorted.

This could be challenging in one regard. I think that the metal lids used for glass canning jars have an inside coating that appears to be plastic. Thoughts?

Douglas Alpenstock wrote:This could be challenging in one regard. I think that the metal lids used for glass canning jars have an inside coating that appears to be plastic. Thoughts?

But the rubberized seal never touches the food.  It forms a seal with the glass jar.

Dorothy Pohorelow wrote:

Douglas Alpenstock wrote:This could be challenging in one regard. I think that the metal lids used for glass canning jars have an inside coating that appears to be plastic. Thoughts?

But the rubberized seal never touches the food.  It forms a seal with the glass jar.

The plastic overlaps both sides of the glass lip so it does contact the contents.

Bob Tretick wrote:

Dorothy Pohorelow wrote:

Douglas Alpenstock wrote:This could be challenging in one regard. I think that the metal lids used for glass canning jars have an inside coating that appears to be plastic. Thoughts?

But the rubberized seal never touches the food.  It forms a seal with the glass jar.

The plastic overlaps both sides of the glass lip so it does contact the contents.

A good practice is to never fill the jar to the top, to leave some (at least 1/2 inch) of free space.
A good practice is to wipe a rim of the glass before sealing it to make sure that it is dry.
If your food is on the glass rim during sealing process, that increases risk of spoilage.
Unless you put jars upside-down for a period of cooling down, or shake them, there is no way food touches inside coating of the lid.

The no plastic touching food is a great thought exersize whether we can accomplish it or not.
(and whether we are going for badge bits or not)

It's good to be that mindful of materials.
One's more practical choices might be otherwise but I think it's important to make the choice conscious and aware.

I'm interested to see the entries following these guidelines and hoping for some more innovative ways around any plastic use.


I just finished jarring up a large Azure order and for some reason, lately, a few of their 5# bulk items come in plastic lined paper?  I've always appreciated their plain paper packaging and now don't know what to do with these bags.
...and of course, all of my glass gallon jars down to the one pint peanutbutter have lids with plastic 'rubber' seals.

We are talking specifically about the requirements for PEP bb submissions.

Every canning manual I read says the food shouldn't touch the lid.  Ample head space, don't tilt the jars as they go in and out of the canner, store uprigt.  That sort of thing.

Humans often do their own thing on their own time.  But for the bb submission, it would be good to show it was done correctly.

r ransom wrote:We are talking specifically about the requirements for PEP bb submissions.

I was looking at the PEP BB cook soup,... submission from this this morning. The first three pages of this topic have food being prepared on plastic cutting boards in 11 pictures with the first instance being approved by paul wheaton? Does this mean food can be prepared on plastic cutting boards but not used anywhere else?  

Bob Tretick wrote:

r ransom wrote:We are talking specifically about the requirements for PEP bb submissions.

I was looking at the PEP BB cook soup,... submission from this this morning. The first three pages of this topic have food being prepared on plastic cutting boards in 11 pictures with the first instance being approved by paul wheaton? Does this mean food can be prepared on plastic cutting boards but not used anywhere else?  

No.

paul wheaton wrote:Apparently there are a lot of submissions that have plastic.  We will be going through and un-approving those.  And for the people that errantly approved them there will be a BBV penalty.  

Follow the requirements for the bb, not what others have gotten away with.

Got away with for now.

On canning lids:

https://www.rrc.k-state.edu/preservation/doc/Canning%20Lids%20101.pdf

As noted the problem with latex (natural rubber) was that it needed to be softened. It also tended to crack with age, allowing air into the jar. Plastisol is basically PVC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastisol

I don't know how you get around that, unless you buy latex goop and make your own sealers.

Thanks for reminding us to be more aware and strict with ourselves and bb submission review.  

It's good that people are raising particular points about tricky situations, like the canning lids, but while doing so, please remember:

Developing SkIP was/is a huge undertaking involving unmeasurable amounts of volunteer time and resources for what is a totally free program.

Problems/mistakes were bound to happen. It is why I tried to do a bunch of BB's near the beginning, even though I'm not the target demographic - I was trying to trouble shoot, help with proof of concept, help out a program for the next generation to find a way to learn how to live lighter on the land, even if stuck in a city.

There are BB's where it clearly marks submissions that were "grandfathered," because Paul found problems that had to be fixed.

Past mistakes are not an excuse to keep making them. There's a famous saying about doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome...

In a world that seems increasingly polluted, where many people seem to be making the same mistakes over and over, Paul wants everyone in the SkIP program to learn to choose a plastic free kitchen and that it can be done (with the possible exception of the ring on a canning lid, which food isn't supposed to touch). If it weren't for PEP, I never would have thought that I could sew my own underwear - and wow - is it ever more comfortable than any of the new stuff I've seen!  So I can also learn the benefits of a plastic free kitchen. Considering I read recently of studies showing the presence of microplastics in a baby's umbilical cord, I back Paul 100% on this. The problem is that I find myself surrounded by generations of people who see the benefits of plastic, but have trouble seeing all the negatives. Or we see the negatives, but don't feel we're in a position to fix the problem. PEP is all about getting further along a healthier path... so fix your kitchen first.  

Several more conversations on this topic over the last few days, I have figured out two important things.

1. As a culture, we've become plastic blind.  

Since the late 1950s, plastics as we know them today have become so normal, it's surprisingly difficult to spot them.  Both for people submitting and reviewing BB

The first step to breaking an addiction is to see it.  SKIP is a big help here.

2. The more people tell me, it's not easy for a normal person to cook without plastic or other toxins touching the food, the more I think, "it's a good thing  SKIP, and PEP is so strict about this."

I don't think it's designed to be easy.  It's designed for people keen to embrace permaculture values.

But also, it's designed so an individual can think for themselves and find a way to show the bb is achieved that fits with both their lifestyle and bb requirements.

Anyway
We found some more areas that might be up for review soon.  

r ransom wrote:...  1. As a culture, we've become plastic blind.  ...

This is soooo... key. I am sitting at my desk and just looking at what is on it:
Thread: the holders used to be wood, but now they're plastic.
Embroidery hoop: could easily be made from wood or bamboo, but the one sitting there is made from plastic.
Glasses case: could be natural fibers - used to be leather - but now it's all artificial (not to mention the glasses inside!)

So yes, R Ransom is specifically referring to the kitchen, but helping permies make choices about their whole lives, takes being able to *see* the plastic that's taken over.