Maxima, Moschata, Pepo

Maybe.  I was guessing pepo too judging from the examples above, except, I've never grown a pepo before, at least not to my knowledge.  I'm certain I didn't buy any either.  Never grew squash in this field before, never put compost there, so... um... ?  Maybe it's from a seed source that got confused when they were labeling their seeds?  

It will be interesting to see what it grows into.  

No, wait.  It is a pepo.  I found a pepo pumpkin seed in my stash. Funny thing is I don't remember buying it.

Great thread I am a big red Kuri fan and grow them exclusively normally harvest about 30 this does up about 8 months sept to may  . I find the size is not to large for a couple of people plus having a pumkin go bad is not a problem as they only weight a kilo or two max you can use it up with out loosing too much .
I have not tried to save seed yet but am thinking about it .
I would like to try Lady Godiva anyone else tried this for the oil and seeds . Is the flesh any good ?

David Livingston wrote:I would like to try Lady Godiva anyone else tried this for the oil and seeds . Is the flesh any good ?

This spring, I direct seeded about 300 Lady Godiva seeds. Around 20 of them sprouted and are doing fine. (7% germination.) I hope to make a post regarding taste in a month or two...

Last time I planted naked seeded squash I had zero percent germination. I'm wondering if I aught to be starting the seeds like bean sprouts, and then growing them out in pots, and then transplanting into the garden?

Had a friend here in France planted 20 seeds Lady Godiva as directed on the packet direct in the soil mid may ,one shoot promptly eaten by slugs the rest zero

David  .

How about this squash?









Max, Mos or Pep?

I'm hoping Max as this would be a great addition to my landrace.

Looks like a turk's turban, which would make it a maxima as far as I know.

THANK YOU all ! ...

After reading this and numerous other threads concerning 'Cucurbita' .. am was looking for seed and read a description that a hybrid will not grow or they might be implying it won't be pure/grow the same exact plant?
here is the quote from the description of the Blue Kuri Squash:

"-- we don't offer hybrid varieties since you can't save seed from them."

Blaze, yes, the seeds from the hybrid plant will grow, but they won't be the same as the plants you saved the seed from. But that's the exciting part to someone who wants to create new varieties - you just never know what you'll get! And from those new plants, you can select the ones you like and continue breeding for something that grows well where you are. I find it very exciting.

I frequently see people saying you can eat any immature winter squash as a summer squash. I'm growing what feels like insane amounts of squash this year and full expect to lose some plants covered with immature squash. Do all these taste like a typical summer squash in the beginning? (typical = zuchinni, patty pan or crookneck) If not, what kinds of differences are there? I'm trusting someone out there knows the answer.

Carol Deppe writes about using immature squash as summer squash in her books. She uses them for drying and for fresh eating. I haven't tried it myself yet, but will when I have more garden space!

To me they taste more bland than squash bred to be eaten immature.  I've used them in spicy dishes so it didn't really matter.

She's not the only one who talks about using it like summer squash. There are even varieties of gourds (such as luffa) that are suggested for use as summer squash.

What do they taste like, though? Are they sweeter, blander, or would you never know it wasn't solely grown for summer squash? Summer squash tends to be on the bland side, which is why it is so easy to add to other dishes. I could see benefits to stronger flavors, but it could impact some recipes.

Luffa has an exotic flavor, almost spicy, to me.  You have to eat it very small, though, about 4 inches long.

I know this is a little off topic but any pointers on growing kabocha/maxima in a hot climate like Southeastern NC? I had zero squash luck since I moved here with Costata and Trombocino. I think they succumbed to borers.
My favorite squashes of all time are kabocha. I love really dry,sweet squash.
I plan to try Joseph's method of planting every couple of weeks,maybe hit the right weather window and bug margin.

I've eaten 7 species of cucurbits as summer squash. To my taste, they are all just summer squash -- if harvested while still immature. Some are more savory. Some are more bland. Some get really soft when cooked while others are firmer. My cooking methods with summer squash usually involve onions, garlic, bacon, salt, and curry spices, so it doesn't matter to me if the squash is bland.  

My favorite summer squash is crookneck, a pepo.

The most savory to me are lagenaria squash.

Maxima squash have a reputation of being hard to grow in warm humid areas due to vine borers. One way to minimize borer damage is to bury the stem at every leaf node. That way, every leaf on the plant can develop it's own root, and damage from borers can be minimized.

Some varieties of maxima are very susceptible to Anasa tristis, squash bugs. To avoid that, I recommend growing resistant varieties.

Moschata (butternut) squash and pumpkins are much more resistant to vine borers, and are typically better choices for warm/humid areas than maxima squash.

This summer, I am growing some moschata/maxima interspecies hybrids. I'm attempting to transfer the bug resistant stem into plants that retain the flavor and texture of maxima squash.

I'm also growing moschata/argyrosperma interspecies hybrids this year. They are the two species that have the best reputation for being resistant to bugs and diseases, so I've hybridized them, and am selecting for better eating quality.

Another strategy that works for some people, is to plant very short-season varieties. Perhaps they will mature fruit before the bugs/disease get after them too much.

There are four organic methods for dealing that are popular with people trying to grow squash around here. Most of them seem a bit fiddly to me, but:

Start two crops of transplants for the garden. Plant the first one and then pull the plants and destroy them when the squash vine grubs are still inside the plants. Plant the second set of plants and hope you've missed the window of activity.

Cover the plants with row covers until female flowers appear. You have to remove the row covers to allow pollinators access, but maybe you can gain enough time to stay ahead of the borers.

Try to kill the borer when it's in the plant, and hope the plant can survive. This can be done by cutting or piercing the vine to manually kill the bug or some people say you can inject BT into the plant and the bacteria will be carried to the grub through the plant's vascular system.

The least labor intensive way is to bury portions of the vine at regular intervals so that the vine grows addition roots down the whole length. Then as the borers sever parts of the plants from the root they can survive on the new roots. I think maxima are supposed to be particularly good at this.

I know most of this from regularly reading gardening articles for my area. I've done the thing where you cut out the borer (I have a filleting knife that is ideal) and wrap the cut and the burying of the vine. Both of them have extended the vine life enough for a harvest. The borers still greatly shortened the life of the vines.

That's part of why I'm planting so much squash this year. I'm hoping to either find or breed varieties the squash vine borers don't bother. Wish me luck, if anything succeeds I will definitely be trying to pass out the seeds.

Joseph, from your posts on here I get the impression that you have a very sensitive palate. If you aren't tasting much variation in immature squash then I think I'll be able to safely use all my existing recipes with all the squash. Thank you.

Casie: Yup. I suppose that I'm a super-taster. But not a picky eater, so to me, any squash is as good as any other.  To me, immature moschata/maxima squash have a flavor/texture profile similar to patty pan. Lagenaria are tough, but smell/taste delightful. Argyrosperma are bleck, so good to have lots of bacon handy. I love cucumbers in a stir fry!!!

I love this thread!

Speaking of eating winter squash as summer squash, if I keep picking the squash off of my kuri (C. maxima) plant to eat as summer squash, will it keep producing more and more as long as the season is appropriate. I had been hoping for lots of squash this year, but only my kuri and the random acorn squash I planted are actually growing. And, reading the info on the juri squash, I'm only supposed to get 3 winter squash from each plant...and I've only got 5 plants! Will I get more calories out of the squash plant if I keep harvesting them as summer squash, or will it stop producing at a set number of squashes, regardless of whether or not any of those actually got mature?

Ate my second to last squash of the 2016 harvest this week.  It was delicious.  This one was harvested June last year and I ate it the first week of August, 2017.  Stored at room temperature, in a forgotten corner of the kitchen.  It had a really waxy coat on it, very tacky.  

These are part of my landrace Max-squash project.  Last year I had a few patches of squash, including some without irrigation.  These last two squash are from that patch.  I wonder if that's why they keep so well?  No irrigation means less squash per plant, but so far it's given me sweeter squash, earlier harvest, and better keeping.  This year, I'm trying all my squash without irrigation.  But a rough start for them as the frosts went on later than usual.  The plants that grow this year, all survived spring frosts.  NICE.  

second to last squash to be eaten from 2016, but one of the early harvests.




2017 squash - harvest is much later this year.

I posted these pictures in a different thread, but that may not have been the best place for them.  I found a couple new (to me) types of squash growing this year and I was hoping for some help IDing them, as well as any other info anyone can provide.  I'll be eating them either way

They are both pepo squash. One looks like a descendant of a Delicata. The other might be a spaghetti squash or descendant.

Thank you Joseph.

r ranson wrote:Todd Parr,
I have merged your topic into this topic. I hope that helps.

Works for me, thank you.

Any tips on how to tell when they are ready for harvest?  

Todd: I harvest all winter type squash after the skin becomes too hard to poke my fingernail into. Might be the day after that happens. Might be weeks after. Some varieties get better tasting for about 3 weeks after harvest.

Joseph Lofthouse wrote:Todd: I harvest all winter type squash after the skin becomes too hard to poke my fingernail into. Might be the day after that happens. Might be weeks after. Some varieties get better tasting for about 3 weeks after harvest.

Excellent.  I grew some really interesting bumpy yellow gourd-looking things this year, but I think they will just be fall decorations.  I'm going to try eating these two kinds.

Todd Parr wrote: I grew some really interesting bumpy yellow gourd-looking things this year, but I think they will just be fall decorations.  I'm going to try eating these two kinds.

Crookneck by any chance? Here's a photo. They are my favorite summer squash when young and tender.

r ranson wrote:

The seed packets have all sorts of names that don't seem to correspond to the common name.  For example, my packet of buttercup from Henry Field's says moschata (as does their butternut).  Whereas West Coast Seeds, say that their Kabocha is maxima.  And here I was thinking that buttercup and kabocha were closely related due to their similar shape and flavour.

Or maybe they are related?  Seed to Seed by Ashworth lists buttercup as maxima, but doesn't seem to mention anything about kabocha.  

Are all pumpkins, pepo, or are there large, orange pumpkin tasting squash that aren't pepo?  

Different books seem to think different things.  Some say armenian cucumbers will not cross with regular cucumbers, others say they will.  And then, what about my luffa plants?  Will they cross with anything?

I'm thinking that Deppe seems pretty on top of things when it comes to plant naming, so I'll assume her sweet meat squash is actually Cucurbita maxima.


What's the definitive source to tell me which will cross with which.  For my landrace, I'm very keen to include kabocha in with the buttercups, but if it's a waste of time, then I will plant them off to one side.  

R, I realize this is an older post and that perhaps you were viewing a different printing of the Ashworth book. I found kabocha under the maxima heading, 10 items past the bold type of the Hubbards, along with jarrahdale and the kuri. I rely on this book for the seed saving info, and she states that pepos will cross, maximas will cross, etc, but a pepo will not cross with a maxima, and so on thru moschatas, and mixtas. And since I'd gotten two different looking pepos to cross from ignorance on the subject, I trust her work. I avoid squash seed in catalogs that isn't somehow identified by the sub-families of pepo etc. And if I'm serious i will cross reference to Ashworth.

Since no one seems to have mentioned this squash, I'm going to sing the praises of Sweet Dumpling (Cucurbita pepo). I don't know if I still have the packet and don't recall the source (maybe Incredible Seeds), but I don't think I'll need to buy more seed, due to the generous supply in every fruit.

Although the squash is similar in form to acorn squash, its rind is pale yellow with green grooves and mottling that turn orange after a few months of storage. And it's an amazing keeper (unlike acorn) if properly cured and stored in the dark at cool room temperature.

Last year I had a bumper crop of several kinds of winter squash and learned how to cure them. I stored them on shelves of an old bookcase in a little-used basement room. I called it the squash library  😉. Ten months later the last (5" across) of the Sweet Dumplings is sitting on the kitchen counter to be roasted soon. A smaller one I ate earlier this week was still tasty and mould-free.
(The second photo is of one of the fruits on a volunteer vine from some kitchen compost I dumped onto a pile of shredded leaves sometime in late winter or early spring. Bonus!)