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willow feeder #3 - willowonka - roundwood timber framing on skids  RSS feed

 
master steward
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This project is being built as part of our permaculture bootcamp - learn permaculture through a little hard work.

Thanks to jocelyn for the pic



For the PDC we need another willow feeder. 

For this willow feeder there will be three improvements:

improvement 1:  the floor will be higher up so we don't need a box or other platform for your feet to rest on. 

improvement 2:  one hole that has a lot more room for a urine diverter.

improvement 3:  a much better trombe wall vent.

 
paul wheaton
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progress:






Some day this might be a toilet seat:




This is being built as part of our permaculture bootcamp.
 
Lab Ant
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very nice work! who's on the job?im curious to see how you use the space under the stairs and how much better this trom wall works!
 
master steward
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Sean, check out the couch balcony thread. The folks in that thread have also helped build this willow feeder.

The couch balcony thread also has more pictures of willow feeder #3 that Cliff took and will likely add here a bit later.

In the mean time, we've been trying to come up with a name for willow feeder #3.

As you may or may not know, we already have:
#1 - chateau de poo
#2 - willow bank - where you make your deposits for a fertile future!

Name suggestions for #3 have included:

Bear Paw's Pooper
The Library (while there's room for bookshelves, due to the open air design, any books would be subject to moisture which would ruin them)
The Thinker / Thinking Spot
Willow Candy Collector
Willowonka - a different kind of chocolate factory

I think there have been others, but I can't recall them now - add them here if you remember them!

 
Sean Pratt
Lab Ant
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okay will do !
 
paul wheaton
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bee chicken hugelkultur trees wofati woodworking
 
paul wheaton
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Sean Pratt wrote:very nice work! who's on the job?



Running point is bear paw who is leaving today.

Fred Tyler, Lane O'harra, Cliff Ponder, Tuesday Yocum, Jesse White ...  and then Nick Fouch arrived and did a lot. 

Lane left yesterday and Nick leaves today. 

So I think that leaves Fred, Cliff, Tuesday and Jesse to finish up.

Ants are welcome to join the bootcamp at this time.    But most importantly, I want to emphasize that I would like to see more long term boots in our bootcamp to build these kinds of experiences. 
 
paul wheaton
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Jocelyn Campbell wrote:Willowonka - a different kind of chocolate factory



We went into zoo town yesterday ....  it was me and jocelyn and josiah and lane ...  and we spent a good fifteen minutes throwing ideas for names around.   Lots of shitty ideas (badump bump).

This one was jocelyn's idea.   I think it is not only the best so far, but I already feel very glued to the name. 
 
pollinator
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I was checking out links to the first two willow feeders and found myself wanting details on the venting.
The solar panel powered fan , does it vent out the side of the pooper?
The trombe wall, is it a steel pipe in an insulated box of mud, with a glass covered southern face?
What's the diameter of the pipe? The thread mentioned adding mass,insulation,and removing pipe that was a heat sink.
Did these changes fix the issues and allow 24 hour thermal siphon venting?
Are these designs 4 season usable?

 
paul wheaton
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William Bronson wrote:The solar panel powered fan , does it vent out the side of the pooper?



yes.   Which we have learned is okay, but not great.  It would have been much better to vent it out the roof.

And, let's face it, that setup will work fine for five years and then need maintenance.  A fully passive design is superior.


The trombe wall, is it a steel pipe in an insulated box of mud, with a glass covered southern face?



yes.


What's the diameter of the pipe?



I think it is something close to 2 inches.


The thread mentioned adding mass,insulation,and removing pipe that was a heat sink.
Did these changes fix the issues and allow 24 hour thermal siphon venting?
Are these designs 4 season usable?



Those changes have not yet been done. 
 
William Bronson
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The small people can't wait to use the new willow feeder.  Very fitting that it's being named "WillowWonka"
 
pollinator
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Seems like if the door is going to be oriented south the whole wall next to the door could be a trombe wall. Sliding glass door panel in front of a cob wall would be easy.  It would then vent above the highest point of the roof. Issue would be whether the boy or girl seat gets to be next to the warm wall.
 
paul wheaton
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Here is my feeble drawing.

The first image is the trombe wall at chateau de poo.  Single pane of glass, pipe is embedded in cob but also exposed, no insulation.

The second image is what is proposed for willowonka.  Double pane glass, wider solar collection, more cob, insulation and pipe is slightly buried.
 
Clifford Ponder
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Fred, Tuesday & Michelle have been finishing up the roof
 
paul wheaton
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Thanks to my patreon peeps for pushing me into making videos again.

http://permies.com
http://patreon.com/paulwheaton

Thanks to Dan Ohmann of The Grass-fed Homestead channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCc2ka-aGChwIiX0mEXzfmoA

Tahnks to Nick Fouch of Fouch-o-matic Off Grid:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm28mg76wIUxq1eyqhbivfg

More pictures and the latest info about our round wood timber framing project "willowonka":

https://permies.com/t/65018/willow-feeder-roundwood-timber

More info about our permaculture bootcamp:

https://permies.com/t/59706/permaculture-bootcamp

I suppose I should explain the phrase "willow feeder".   A willow tree falls into a classification of tree that we call "poop beasts".   Most trees shy away from such nutrient heavy content.  But willow, cottonwood and poplar gobble up such high nutrient content.   The willow feeder designs are an attempt to discover systems that are better than septic systems with drainfields, better that sewage treatment plants, better than flush toilets, better than composting toilets and even better than humanure systems.  We start with the use case of being better than a porta potty and then try to evolve systems that people will enjoy more than an indoor flush toilet. 

This material is heavy in carbon, nitrogen and many minerals that make for a rich soil. Rather than putting the carbon and nitrogen up into the atmosphere (composting or humanure), or into our water systems and the dump (septic systems and sewage treatment plants), the willow feeder process is to try to convert most of that material into willow trees after we have made the material safe from pathogens.

This willow feeder is being built on skids so we can move it as our needs change.  We have a long, rich history of building structures on skids:

https://permies.com/t/47740/ten-skiddable-structures

This video is about a bit of round wood timber framing.  On skids. 

Master round wood timber artisan Bear Paw teams up with the talented Nick Fouch of Fouch-o-matic Off Grid to design and build a mobile composting toilet outhouse on skids using round wood timber sourced from wheaton labs.  The outhouse is being constructed in preparation for the upcoming May 2017 permaculture design course being held at Wheaton Labs. 
Bear Paw puts his chainsaw to work as he sculpts the round wood timber and Nick Fouch uses his framing experience to install the interior wood and siding from salvaged lumber.  The outhouse has been given several names: The Willow Feeder (because the deposits made in the outhouse will be used to fertilize the willows at Wheaton Labs, Willowonka (a different kind of chocolate factory), and Bear Paw has dubbed it the hootenanny.  The rafters are scribed saddle notch.  square notched wood between the skids keep the structure from racking while being pulled.

We are trying to get this and a bunch of other stuff done before the permaculture design course starts:

https://richsoil.com/pdc.jsp

We have a kickstarter going right now so people can watch our permaculture design course from home:

http://kck.st/2q6Ycay


permaculture bootcamp participants include Fred Tyler, Cliff Ponder, Lane O'Harra, Jesse White, Evan Pierce, Tuesday Yocum

Chainsaws and angle grinders are used sometimes, and sometimes the chisel and mallet is preferred.

Thanks to Josiah Wallingford for convincing his dad, Bear Paw, to come share his skills with us.

https://permaethos.com/


Relevant stuff at permies:

https://permies.com/t/65018/willow-feeder-roundwood-timber
https://permies.com/t/59706/permaculture-bootcamp
https://permies.com/f/81/timber
https://permies.com/f/102/labs


music by Jimmy Pardo
http://permies.com/t/30796/Jimmy-Pardo

Thanks to my patreon supporters:

Julia Mason
wade L
Jason Hower
Bill Crim
Doug Barth
One Community
Mark Allen
Kelton Mitchell
David Ingraham
The Rayhawk Clan

http://patreon.com/paulwheaton


 
paul wheaton
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The trombe wall is in place.  Although the glass still needs to be mounted once the cob and plaster are dry.

This is part of the appropriate technology course.  This part was taught by Erica Wisner.

So this is a willy wonka hat on a rabbit that is eating willow while producing "willow candy"
 
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That thing turned out really nice, makes me miss leaving fresh deposits in the cool Montana morning air.
 
master steward
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You can see it all finished in this awesome video by Justin Rhodes. The tour of the "chocolate factory" starts at 10:35.

 
Jocelyn Campbell
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We enjoy Erica's trombe wall art so much that we're continuing the theme a bit, thanks to some pure silly fun (generous support).

 
paul wheaton
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The skids on willowonka are way too small.  While it has been fine while willowonka has been in the same general area (it has been moved three times), when the time came to move it onto the trailer so it could be moved up to the lab for the peasant pdc, schmoozaroo and rocket kitchen workshop ...   it should take about 15 minutes, but it has now been about five hours for three people. 

We decided that the short term solution is to brute force it onto the trailer by hook or by crook.   And later we will need a longer term solution (I think that we need to add proper skids to the bottom - maybe attach the existing skids to the better skids).  

 
It's a pleasure to see superheros taking such an interest in science. And this tiny ad:
Binge on 17 Seasons of Permaculture Design Monkeys!
http://permaculture-design-course.com
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