Marriage struggles

Christopher Weeks wrote:You might be thinking about energy wrong. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoon_theory. Sometimes I don't have the spoons to do something I ought to, but I can manage vegging out in front of my computer.

Also, maybe just ask her to go for a walk with you after dinner instead of telling her she should get exercise.

Matt McSpadden wrote:Hi Brody,
In her defense... it does make a difference. It is hard to understand, but there are times when you just can't. It shouldn't be like that, and its hard for people to understand who have never gone through that. But there is a tiredness of the willpower which is very different than physical tiredness. I think this is why my Dr was saying we have to get gas in the tank first. We have to find ways to get the energy going so that you can do some of the other things that will help.

Brody Ekberg wrote:I guess I dont understand the need for a “spoon theory”. You have energy, doing things uses energy, once the energy is gone you need to recharge. Sleep is the recharge...

Nicole Alderman wrote:I worry about being the one to dose her sleeping pills, because that could put even more tension between you and your wife. It might result in her resenting you every time you don't let her have a pill, even if it's not your fault. It's too easy for her brain to get confused and blame you for things, rather than circumstances. My husband gets cranky that we can't buy something because we don't have the money. Logically, he knows it's not my fault....but it still makes things hard.

Are you home when it's bed time? When I'm really tired, I lose track of time zoning out. Sometimes, I'm too tired to get up from the computer and drag myself off to brush my teeth and got to bed.

Maybe you could help her get to bed. Set a timer and when it goes off, it's time to turn off the screens. Give her a few minutes to finish what she's doing, and then gently help her get up from her chair and remind her it's bed time. You could also install something like F.Lux on her screens to make everything yellow and sleepy before bed--that helps me. My husband often has to remind me, "It's bedtime, get up from the computer and go to bed."

M Waisman wrote:I"ve gotten like that when I'm mildly depressed (I've never had severe depression, thankfully). The screens, poor sleep, limited physical activity, sugar and crappy food cravings, and it coincides with when I've struggled with hard transformations/relationships in my life. It's not fleeting- takes time to process all of that. What Matt is saying makes A TON of sense to me. Baby steps. Some of the right supplements can go far to just feeling like a functioning human (B, D, L-theanine, melatonin, magnesium) that can think straight.

Additionally, it appears that there may be more projecting or wanting her to be a certain way than understanding what her way is or why she is a certain way. If you have not, ask her how she's feeling- maybe every day, ask if she has ideas on why she is struggling with insomnia, write down what she says she would like to do to remedy it, and find out how you can help support the next achievable step.  

Good luck!

Timothy Norton wrote:I'm an insomniac, I have been sense probably around puberty. I speak more about it in this thread about natural sleep aids.

My mind does not do well shutting down until it absolutely crashes. It sounds like your wife is having similar issues. My personal view is that a lack of good sleep is more damaging to my body than taking a daily supplement that might possibly have some effects down the line. I have taken and continue to take a melatonin supplement from as reputable of a source as I can and found it effective. I currently am trying to move towards more 'natural' remedies but nothing so far has been as easy as taking the melatonin an hour before bed. Side effect risks for me personally were non-existent. Not having proper sleep cascades negative effects everywhere else including mental health, relationships, personal drive, having passions. It can be incredibly debilitating but it seems that it should be super easy just to shut your eyes but it isn't.

I hope ya'll can find a safe resolution that helps get her sleep back on track.

John Weiland wrote:Just going to add this in case it wasn't mentioned, but the day/night swings that accompany spring and fall bring on my worst bouts of insomnia.  These nearly disappear in summer and winter.  If you or your wife keep a journal, perhaps page back through to see if any of these bouts coincide with seasons....  Just a thought.

Brody Ekberg wrote: I try to explain that I will support her in those changes, will make the changes with her, that it wont be easy, comfortable or convenient and that we need to do it anyway, even if its hard and we dont want to. Then I get the “you dont understand how I feel or what its like” speech and the cycle continues.

S Bengi wrote:What does she really want from you to be happy. Does she just want you to go out on more dates with her where there is alot of junk food, and for you to go on two 7day vacations per year. And for you not to tell her that she is fat/sick and needs to go on diet to be "healthier". What do you currently bring to the table that she loves?

What do you think she can do to make you feel happier or at least not worse. What does she currently bring to the table other than sex once in a while, someone to think about/see in the same space. If you were to magically find your "dream" woman next year what does she need to bring to the table to make you happy. Maybe you don't really need much other than sex and you just would prefer if she doesn't get all emotional and complain and then not do anything to fix it. Does this woman exist?

You promised her a married life of travel and eating junk food, being "fun" and then you did a bait and switch and became a monk, observing weeds and digging ditches. Then telling herthat her complaining about is no difference than snow falling in the winter, meh. You are the one that changed so can you just bail, idk.

Have you thought about going in the completely oposite direction aka instead of looking for or creating a woman that is emotionless and just like digging ditches and planting weeds, you double down and encourage her to be a bratty baby and you take on that dom role, heck even take out some handcuffs and hot wax. Maybe you could have some extra fun once a month when you go to a cabin in the woods on a trip. I see some really cheap planefare on spirit airline.

I do feel you on the whole conflict with money, thats the #1 reason why couples breakup, it's not cheating or abuse or religion/language, it's literally money/financial goals. So is it possible to sperate your monies and have her pay her own way while you save up your money. Would being divorce really allow you to save up more, how about child support and wife support, and credit cards in your name, and having to sell the house and buy a new more expensive one?

Hearing that we are going to divorce in 6days unless I lose 30lbs/change my religion/sexual orientation/love language/coping mechanism would make it impossible for me to sleep, if I already had sleeping problems before. ultimatums and deadline can have that effect at times.

The average american in the 20-40 age range gains 2lbs per year (40lbs overs 20yrs). I don't know if your weight gain is due to your wife or our culture or etc. but yeah trying to reduce/quit when someone has it in ones face sure does make an already hard job even harder.

But yeah continuing to be her "punching bag" doesn't sound good, maybe you need to help her find a new punching bag, there has to be someone who enjoys that type of stuff in their life. What if you have seperate bedrooms/houses/partners. What if you stayed as her verbal punching bag if she gave you xyz in return?

Will you just attract the same type of spouse the next time around?

How does your wife know that you even see her, and care about her? Maybe she only gets your attention when she says, I am going to divorce you. What if she "saw" you giving her attention when you found random stones outside and gave it to her as a pet rock/braclet/flowers holder. Encourage her to "retrain" you by using lots of  "I statement" e.g.
Hubby, I felt so happy yesterday when you got me that danelion flowers. It reminds her to be grateful, and also help you to feel appreciated. And you should do the same thing too. Wifey, I am so happy that you are out here keeping me company while I plant these lettuce, I know you have to head off to work in 5minutes but I still enjoy these moments, you already know that it doesn't take alot to make me super happy.  Give out the happy I statements as they happen as soon as possible.

Try to repharse negative I statement into an ask. I feel so empty right now baby, can you come outside with me for 10minutes and watch the chickens/sunset with me, It will charge me up and make me so happy, and you are the person I would most want to do it with, and I do realize that it might not be your top 10 thing to do. But I appreciate it so much when you join me.  

Heck even make a chore list that sounds like this.
Sex on Mondays at 9pm with a makeup date of Thursday and Saturday, both at 8pm
Chicken Watching at sunrise 3times a week
100% RomCom type Date Night the 1st and 3rd Saturdays of the month
$80 worth of cheap "girly" gifts from amazon per months that you give to the wife, about one per week (gifts can't be a better vaccum)

I know that making a schedule for sex and date night and chicken watching can make it seem less fun/romatic, but sometimes that is all that is needed, just a routine esp when folks are feeling spent/depressed/overwhelmed.


People do use the phrase "I love you" too much for my liking too. We have toddlers saying goodbye house, goodbye flower, I love you, see you when I come back from school. But the question becomes can we really expect love from a 2yr old toddler, does a 3yr old toddler really have the capability to even love, when so many adults can't even define love much less actually love. Also I love "all humans" on the planet in the most generic of sense. But do I really "LOVE" people that are 4,000miles away, the anwser is probably no, esp not in a meaningful way. I might also love my ex, in the sense that we mutally broke up and there is no bad blood, but is that really what I mean when I tell my wife I love you, aka I love you the way how I love my cousin who is in prison/my ex. Thats why I prefer I statements of gratitues. Blanket I love you, sounds even worse than, Hubby thank you so much for paying the water bill yet again for the 87
months that we have been living togather.

Tereza Okava wrote:
It sounds to me that you need a break. Can you get one? Can you tell her, look, I'm at my breaking point because it literally breaks my heart to see you like this, i need a week away (during which she needs to take care of herself?)? It is one of the pillars of my marriage that we spend some time apart, and not only does absence make the heart grow fonder, but it also makes it clear we come back actively, by choice, each time.
One of the hardest parts of dealing with other people, whether they're our kids, our charges (our students), the people we live with, or even friends and colleagues, is giving them the space to stumble, fail, learn, and develop resilience. Nobody wants to see their spouse or kid suffer, but that is how we learn. Maybe she might recognize how much she's weighing on you

Brody Ekberg wrote: I try to explain that I will support her in those changes, will make the changes with her, that it wont be easy, comfortable or convenient and that we need to do it anyway, even if its hard and we dont want to. Then I get the “you dont understand how I feel or what its like” speech and the cycle continues.

To avoid the explanations and speeches (which seem to grate on both of you), I wonder what would happen if you sat down and said "please tell me what i can do to support you". "help me understand what it is i'm missing about how you feel."

Matt McSpadden wrote:I second what Tereza said.

We feel for both of you, and you need to make sure that you have the health and strength and patience to help her.

I will repeat what I said earlier. What you are describing sounds like severe depression/anxiety and she needs help. And while I like naturopathic doctors better than modern doctors, they are still human and some are better than others. Whoever she sees, needs to understand how serious this is. Most of the supplements you listed may not be strong enough or concentrated enough. And for something like that you want a doctor or at least an experienced herbalist.

One of the things that keeps me going in my own marriage is the thought of what if things change down the road and she gets healthy again? Is she going to say "thank you for standing by me, for fighting for our marriage, for helping me"? Or is she going to say "why did you give up on me"?

Brody Ekberg wrote:Our nightly routine is something like this:

Eat too late (7-8:30 lately), sitting on the couch watching tv

She falls asleep on the couch shortly after eating

I finish the episode of whatever we’re watching, leave her on the couch and go do whatever needs to be done (clean up the kitchen, prep food for tomorrow, close the coop, feed the cat, haul wood…)

At some point, she wakes up, takes care of her plate from dinner and moves to a chair, with her phone, with the tv on. She reclines and falls back asleep. During this time I stoke the fire, get ready for bed, stretch and play with the dog a bit.

Usually by then, Im barely able to keep my eyes open and am about an hour or more late for bed. If she’s still sleeping, I kiss her and say good night. She generally comes to bed right after me.

It always seems goofy to me that I wake her up and tell her to go to sleep. I feel like if shes so tired she can sleep in the chair while the tv is on and the dog is growling, I should probably leave her alone and she can sleep there.

But she doesnt like that and likes the idea of sleeping next to me. I tell her that doesnt matter, what does matter is the sleep itself, not getting what you want the way you want it. That doesnt go over well.

M Waisman wrote:Can you see yourselves happily married in 10 years?

I can't read every word but it's clear that patterns are well-engrained for both of you and neither of you seems to do the work to make impactful change. (That's blunt, I'm sorry. It's what I see in this thread). Good people aren't always good together- we've all seen those relationships surely. It's okay.

I love what Matt said about not giving up. That is 100% possible in a healthy marriage. Not every marriage has that fortitude. Your marital bond is weak and it would take radical changes and a miracle to change it, from my inconsequential perspective.

You sound resentful (you come across as kind and gentle, but still a lot of blame) and as though your mind wa made up a while ago. It's apparent that there is not mutual understanding and mutual desire. If there is mutual understanding and mutual desire for a marriage to work, then I believe that the answer is no, marriage shouldn't be so hard as yours is.

My marriage is REALLY GOOD. I married an emotionally intelligent man, very different than me, but our values are well-aligned and we adore doing and exploring life together. We're not exemplary but we're happy. "Marriage is hard work" doesn't really ring true for me...love and take care of yourself AND each other then things mostly flow- when it's the right person.

Nicole Alderman wrote:
What's keeping you guys from having dinner earlier? Is that something you can fix? That might help a lot. Your wife is stuck in a rut. She needs help out. It seems like you have a few more "spoons" of mental/physical/emotional energy, so maybe you could step up and get you both into a new routine?

If that's not something that can happen, maybe both of you just go to bed after dinner. It's already late and you're already tired. Just go straight to bed--the dishes and cleaning up can happen in the morning. Or, you can get her to bed and lay next to her until she passes out, and then play with your dog and clean until you're tired.

The absolute worst thing that can happen for me, in terms of sleep, is falling asleep somewhere and then waking up and trying to go back to bed. If I pass out when putting my kids to sleep, I'll wake up 30 minutes or an hour later. Even if I go straight to brushing my teeth and crawling into bed, I am unable to pass back out. I'll be in a brain dead zombie state for at least 1.5 hours until I can finally fall asleep. It STINKS. That might be contributing in a huge way to her messed up sleep.

When I'm stuck in a tired, depressed, zombie state, I can't think clearly. But, my brain says, "My marriage is important and I should sleep next to my husband. I love him." And even if he wanted me to just get some stinkin' sleep, my brain gets stuck on wanting to be with him. And, his presence is a comfort. This would be even more magnified in intensity if I was worried about my husband leaving me.

---

My husband and I have been through some truly difficult times. There's been times when I was sleep deprived and depressed and clingy and not able to take care of myself. I'm sure there were times when he thought, "Why am I married to this woman?" But, he kept on keeping on, because he pledged himself to me. I was often lost and did not know how to help myself. I would have loved to have someone tell me what was wrong and how to fix it...but would also probably instantly say their fixes weren't going to work.

And yet, it's been twice now that I've basically saved my husband's life when his Crohn's debilitated him for a year at a time. During those two one-year-long episodes, he basically gave up thinking he'd ever get better. He was so lost in pain and so nutrient deprived that he was in a dark place. But day after day, for months on end, I made him medicinal tea. I logged everything he ate and all his symptoms. I researched. I cooked him good, healing food every day so he wouldn't eat food that was destructive to him. I went without sleep so he could sleep. I prioritized him above myself to get him better. Because that's what you do. In sickness and in health. And mental sickness is just as terrible (and often connected) to physical sickness.

It's taken us years of marriage, of hard times, harder times, and better times to realize that whoever has the energy is the one who steps up. Sure, we both try our best, but sometimes one of us is disabled by depression, or chronic illness. It might be that the best they can do is tell the kids stories while soaking in an Epsom salt bath between bouts of sleeping and diarrhea-ing. It might be they just managed to haul themselves to work or do some dishes before crashing.

It is SO easy to get lost in resentment. It is so easy to start thinking, "Why am I always the one making dinner, doing the dishes, being responsible, etc, etc." But, sometimes the other person is just doing the best they can. And sure, that isn't as fantastic as what you're doing. But, they're still trying,

It sounds like you both had some good times for a while, until she stopped getting enough sleep. If you can step up and get her to bed, that might be enough to get her back to a place where she can function again. You remember loving her and the person she once was. She's still in there, but trapped. Just like I was trapped in depression, and my husband was trapped in his crohn's. When you're trapped, you can't see a way out. You don't know how to help yourself. You need someone to get you back on the right track. Maybe you can be that person for your wife.

Brody Ekberg wrote:
Part of me thinks if I prioritized my health instead of hers, I would be in a better state of mind to handle her. I focus so much on external problems (house, wife, vehicles, animals) that I neglect myself, but I know thats stupid and I suffer because of it so that leads to anger and resentment. When I was my most peaceful, positive and healthy, I meditated 10 minutes every morning and evening, did 15 minutes of full body stretching and exercise morning and evening, didnt watch any tv, ate a super clean diet, and whenever I felt overwhelmed or stressed, instead of pushing through and keep working I would take 5-10 minutes to just sit outside, watch the chickens and be grateful. She wasn’t necessarily any happier at that time but I know I was. Ive been trying to help her and “fix” her for years now and its lead to her basically feeling like a burden to me and a problem, and Im neglecting myself in the process. She’s in a rut but I dont think I can pull her out, and I dont think anyone else can either unless she wants it and cooperates.

Shes a light sleeper and if Im stoking the wood stove or putting dishes away and accidentally wake her up, she comes out guns blazing every time.Fbir

I know summer can be a struggle for her because it is light out early so the chickens are out, roosters crowing and birds are chirping early in the morning. I love it and wake up to it with a smile. She hates it all and “wants to shoot every bird on the property” immediately upon waking up in the mornings…

I feel like if Im gone 8 hrs a day working life would be so much more smooth if she was at home for most of that, taking care of chores and prepping dinner. But short of that happening, I dont know how to make a change.

She had a college education and works with children… she would make more money trimming buds at a dispensary or bagging groceries than taking care the future leaders of this country… sad but true.

Brody Ekberg wrote:We do like the date night idea and just struggle to stay regular with it. Its hard because traveling is always a problem, money is a stressor, and its almost impossible to find good food at a restaurant. There’s 1 place about 45 miles away with pretty good food (local, in season, pretty healthy and delicious). We could settle and go to any old restaurant and get whatever, but then we’re both bloated, gassy and unhappy with ourselves, so what’s the benefit in that? Especially when you have to drive there and pay for it?

Brody Ekberg wrote:So I tried buying her happiness for $11,000 (could have put that towards new windows that would help rid the house of black mold and actually increase her chances of sleeping due to less inflammation causing mold spores in the air).

DIY air filter doubles as white noise generator

Nicole Alderman wrote:

I think paring down on the non-essentials is a good idea. When I read you were remodeling two bathrooms, I thought, "Why are you doing that if you've got so much else going on?" Both of my bathrooms need to be remolded (we can't even use the bathtub in one, because the previous owner poked a hole in it and then painted the whole tub with latex paint. The other could really benefit from a new floor). We've been here 11 years. But, making the bathrooms look nice is really low on my list of priorities. Our health, our kids, our gardens, and just taking a mental/physical break take precedence. You get home at 3:30, and spend 3 1/2 hours doing house/garden/animal work. That's a lot of work. And, (if you're anything like my dad), most of that stuff is stuff you decided needs to get done. But, is it all necessary?

It sounds like your wife is often busy working and/or in meetings until late. So, she can't get dinner made. But, you could, but you feel you need to do a bunch of other stuff first.

Maybe now is a good time to write down all the stuff you're doing when you get home and prioritize is and find out what's really necessary. It's easy to get bogged down in the details, blame the other person for everything, and just keep being stuck in a rut (I'm not saying everything is your fault or your wife is perfect. But, like you've noticed, you can't really fix her. You can fix yourself and maybe make it easier for her to fix herself).

What's more important: having dinner earlier or getting more stuff done? Does all that stuff have to happen? Is bathroom remodel more important that your sanity? Does everything on your To-Do list need to happen now, or can it wait? List it out and rank it.

Do you have black-out curtains and white noise? I spent YEARS of my life not getting good sleep. My bedroom was south-facing and super bright. It would take me HOURS to fall asleep every night. When my husband started working nights, we got black out curtains. And when we had kids, we got white noise machines. Suddenly, I can sleep! See if you can get that bedroom pitch black and block out all the light. Have a fan running or a white noise machine going. Get rid of green, blue, etc lights. If the smoke alarm light wakes her up, cover it with tape. If the digital clock numbers are blue and bright, get a red one.  If her getting good sleep is important to you, then these are pretty cheap fixes that can really help things.

Maybe, just maybe, if finances allow, it might make more sense for you to be the one staying home and her working. Does she get things done at work and make a reasonable wage? Maybe she can be the breadwinner and you can be home getting done all the things that need to get done. You seem to have have a passion and the energy for the gardening, home maintenance, vehicle repair, etc. Maybe you'd be a better fit for getting all of that done (and maybe raising the kids), while she works the job and can come home to get a little done, rest a bit with you, eat and then sleep?

Does she work with preschoolers? I spent 6 years teaching preschool and making minimum wage and then a few dollars above. It is a hard, emotionally and mentally draining job. My husband thought I didn't like his friends and would be unhappy when I griped he surprised me by having his friend over right after work. I needed down time. I needed quiet and alone time to recharge. If she's a preschool teacher, it's no wonder that she's out of "spoons." Working in a preschool is only slightly less draining than having a colicky infant at home. The only thing nicer about working as a preschool teacher vs having your own kids at home, is that you at least (hopefully) get a break when you get home.

If she's teaching preschool or working with toddlers and infants, it could also explain her bad shoulder not getting better. I ended up having to go to therapy because I'd dislocated my shoulder carrying my kids around. And when I worked in preschool, I had shoulder and wrist issues from lifting cots above my head and pulling kids along on the "donuts" that they'd hold while walking in line. I needed physical therapy for that, too. When you mentioned that her arms went numb, it sounded a lot like what I deal with. My shoulders would pop and grind when I try to sleep, and often my arm would go numb. It's better now that I'm not carrying my kids around and especially better if I do my exercises. If she isn't already getting physical therapy, that would be good.

I was about to be worried that if she's this tired emotionally while working, things would get even worse when she has kids (at least for the first 3 years)...but if she's already working in preschool, it likely won't get too much worse. Even if she has a colicky baby, she'll have all those years of working in a preschool to fall back on, and allow her to parent on auto-pilot and do okay. I am extremely thankful for my years of working in preschool, because otherwise I would not have been nearly as good of a parent in those dark, depressing times. I very much lived off of auto-pilot, but my auto-pilot was good.

I suggest co-sleeping, especially if she nurses. She's a light sleeper, so she won't roll on the baby in her sleep, and she'll be able to nurse and then pass back out, or nurse while sleeping, or at least keep getting to lie down and rest while nursing. I made the mistake of not co-sleeping with my first (because everyone said it would be bad "it'll ruin the marriage bed," "it'll spoil the baby," "it'll train them to need you" HOGWASH!), and it was a nightmare. I got no sleep. I had terrible depression. My son was crying more than he needed to. I co slept with my daughter, and it was SO MUCH BETTER. Both my kids now sleep by themselves, and sleep a lot deeper than I ever did.

Nicole Alderman wrote:
Date nights don't have to be expensive or at a restaurant. Granted, my husband and I haven't had one in a LONG time (thanks to my kids being clingy when little, and then covid, and we just got out of the habit....and we don't want to hear our kids complaining that we did something fun and they didn't). Many of my husband and my date nights were a walk, or a picnic, or trip to a park, or going shopping at a thrift store, or watch the sunset from the car, or go to a movie, or go to a local fair or expo (there's a yearly "rock and gem" show we like to go to). The main thing is that you spend the time together, away from screens. A lot of the time, we'd go to the store and buy convenient, healthy-ish snacks and then go somewhere. You could also just buy some nice snacks or easy-to-prepare foods during your grocery trip and use those.

Nicole Alderman wrote:I feel like I post a lot in here, because in MANY ways, I identify with your wife. And my husband and my relationship was strenuous for many years in similar ways. And, we've now been married for 16 years, and I've known him for half my life (19.5 years--I'm 39). There were times where he went online and vented about us, and I feared he'd leave me. There were times I was depressed and clingy and fearful. There was a lot of time that he knew I just needed exercise and good food and I'd be better, and it just wasn't happening. There were years when I viewed much of our relationship as obligation, rather than delight (and, as Paul likes to say, "obligation is poison"). And we probably should have gotten therapy, but I had a ton of shame and didn't have the power to find a therapist--I was worried they'd give us bad advise. I remember being lost and depressed and not knowing the solution. We were both in a cycle of just plodding along and resenting and waging the "resource wars" where we felt the other wasn't doing enough and each of us never had enough. It was a mess.

And, here we are, 16 years later, and I think both of us would say our relationship is the best it ever has been. We both feel loved and supported and know that the other cares, and we take comfort in that. We know the other isn't perfect, but they're trying their best. We laugh and say "____ puts up with me," and we don't think there's anyone else out there for each of us.

It's been a road to get where we're at, but I'm so glad neither of us gave up. We plodded through our "valley of the shadow of death" and did our best and finally have come out to green pastures. Things are still hard, but we know we're in it together and we have each other's back. That reassurance is something strong and amazing.

The people you see online might look amazing...but that's because they're online. I'm sure some people out there think I'm some sort of amazing permaculture woman: I moderate permies, I worked for Paul, I've completed dozens of PEP badges, I teach permaculture skills to kids, I have a crazy amount of "apples" here on permies, etc, etc, etc. But, 12 years ago, I was basically your wife.

Christine Ge wrote:
Just like flowers require water to keep them beautiful. People require love , honesty , respect , trust , passion energy to keep them beautiful too.Once we give that , then we just may find that the god and goddess we been looking for has been right in front of you us all along    Partnership you need to work together agree on things get out of the house love it like you first meet celebrate it everyday keep courting in the marriage as well.  Be the leading hand lead the way of love.





Emotional Needs:
Starting from Level 1 of the model, each emotional need has to be fulfilled to a degree before the relationship advances to the next higher level. I believe that if men took the time to fulfill all the emotional needs of a female partner, they would be rewarded with uninhibited and meaningful sexual expression by their female partner based on deep intimacy, trust and commitment.

The Recipe for Intimacy

1 – Physical Attraction: Basic sexual attraction is the foundation

2 – Mutual Chemistry: Feeling a mutual attraction and mutual emotional sparks (Chemistry during kissing is the key test)

3 – Trust & Safety: Feeling safe (physically, emotionally, financially) in the care of your partner (Dating Phase)

4 – Emotional Bonding: Feeling a deep emotional attachment to your partner and interest to build a life together (Co-habitation phase with commitment requirements)

5 – Appreciation, Respect & Thoughtfulness: Feeling appreciated for all that you do as a life-partner for your lover (Helping with chores, Making your partner’s life easier during busy day-to-day life)

6 – Feeling Sexy, Beautiful & Desired: Feeling desired as sexual being by your partner (Not a simple feat with kids, work, house to balance as a couple)

7 – Sexual Acceptance and Emotional Safety: Feeling emotionally secure to fully disclose your most intimate or dark desires to your partner without any fear of negative fall-out (rejection, social ridicule, moral outrage, relationship breakup)

8 – Uninhibited Sexual Expression: Feeling secure to be wildly sexual, uninhibited and sexually adventurous

NOTE: This model is not fully applicable to sexual flings/thrill seeking; fuck buddies or friends with benefits relationships because the motivations, emotions and behaviors are significantly different than in a committed relationship. This model is focused specifically on understanding committed long-term relationships because it is the most complex case.

It has been said, “If you want to get your wife in the mood , do the dishes”… One of the major reasons couples don’t have much sex after they have kids is they are physically exhausted from life. This makes sense since most marriage/relationship break down at level 5 when the couple becomes emotionally disconnected with each other…



Building Her Up


here are many misconceptions about Sensual love. The most common misconception about Domination is that it is about the degradation and abuse of women.

Unless you understand the nature of a Sensual love, you would think that degradation and abuse is the purpose of the relationship when looking from the outside. It is completely counter-intuitive that the path to nurturing the sensual submissive desires within a woman is to build her self-confidence and make her feel beautiful, sexy, cherished and deeply desired… It makes absolutely no sense on the surface. It is clearly an intellectual contradiction that most ordinary people cannot grasp without experiencing it for themselves.

This is a complex and confusing onion to understand. So let’s first peel back a few layers to help understand the foundation of the dynamics at play. Let’s forget that about the  naughty man with the whip/paddle/hand (i.e Me) involved in this relationship and focus solely on the psychology of the woman and her sexual needs & desires. Secondly, let’s forget this woman is wildly kinky and her desires are to feel “owned” and “used” by a man sexually. Let’s imagine she is a very average woman who craves with just her BF/husband/partner, just she wants a lot more passionate love-making.
Building Up Her Confidence Creates A Sexy Vixen...



How would you advise this completely ordinary love how to feel sexier and more able to express her sexual desires? Would you recommend she do such things as?

   Buy a new sexy dress and shoes
   Go to the spa to pamper herself
   Get a new hair style
   Buy some sexy lingerie that flatters her body shape
   Achieve a personal goal or pursue a personal interest

What do all these have in common? Hopefully the light bulb just went on in your head. The foundation is self-confidence. Confidence is the essence of sexy. It is the energy we exude that draws people to us. Regardless of the nature of her sexual desires, to make any woman feel sexier, you must build up her self-confidence. That is the key to understanding how to nurture a beautiful insatiable, uninhibited vixen from within any woman with submissive desires. She is just a woman at the core…

Scars From Your Life Journey:
In your journey through life, our former partners, friends and family have a way of permanently scarring us with their words. These cruel words permanently alter our self-perception – our looks, our sex appeal, our body, our weight, our sexual ability. These emotional scars manifest as inhibitions, a lack of confidence, aversions or “emotional landmines” that set us off.

Part of being a good Sensual Lover is being able to recognize and remove the psychological obstacles in the way of a woman feeling highly self-confident, highly sexual and highly desired.


Seeing Her Own Beauty Through My Eyes:
One fun way I start to change the self-perception of a submissive woman is shopping for a special outfit to dress her up for me (sexy lingerie, stockings, CFM heels, make up, jewelry). The process of shopping together for her special outfit ensures her mind is aroused for several days in advance which serves to extend mental foreplay of anticipation out to several days in advance of our intimate meeting. In the process of dressing up, a woman feels very beautiful, highly self-confident, desired and extremely aroused.

The second thing I do is I take a series of beautiful, erotic photos of her all dressed up in lingerie so she sees her own beauty captured through my eyes. That is a simple feedback loop from me to her of sexual energy that builds up a woman’s self-esteem.

Lastly, we play an erotic role-play game during the end of the photo shoot whereby her objective is to pose in increasingly suggestive poses that make me so horny that I want to put down the camera and ravage her…

This simple role-play has four powerful outcomes:

   I capture her most sexual self in stunningly beautiful photos that make her feel beautiful, sexy and desired.
   She escapes the mental restraints of her ordinary life to role-play a highly confident & highly sexually expressive woman
   She is so mentally aroused by the whole process for several days, she experiences incredibly powerful orgasms
   We have incredibly hot, wild sex and create beautiful sexy photos as memories which makes everyone happy to do this again.

The Longer Journey:
Building up a person’s self-confidence is not a quick fix but this is a good starting point to build from. It takes consistent love, support and encouragement over time for someone to accept themselves and to see their own value… Praise costs us nothing to give but it is priceless to the recipient – praise profusely and often. Remember, it is a process over time; not an event…

By building up the sexual confidence of a Lass, she feels increasingly powerful to freely express her sexual desire. So now you should see that Sensual Domination is not an act of abuse and degradation of women. It is an act of great caring and love of a woman. Only a man who truly loves, cherishes and appreciates women could unleash them sexually.

Nothing changes then you need to think might be best to be friends if you tried everything.

Mark Miner wrote:Hi Brody,
Hang in there. I think you're parsing a lot of advice, examining many aspects of you and your wife, and all of that can be to the good. Beware of rumination, though.
I hear both of you struggling with self-imposed obligations, you to permaculture/homesteading, and your wife to work/self-worth-affirming-use-of-degree, I'm sure there could be other things in that list. I wonder if you both could spend a (non-hurried, non-extra-errands) evening or other time making a list of "core stuff", in other words, agreeing on what really matters to both of you - not just to each of you. The corollary to that could be that each of you agrees to ease off on something that the other one doesn't understand/value/support.
I'm sorry about the house mold stuff, we have dealt with some of that, though perhaps not to the depth that you have. Is the house a non-negotiable have-to-be-here kind of thing? Some houses are worth fixing, but you're the only one who knows the financial, personal, and other costs of that, and I encourage you to consider basically any options that would give you and your wife the bandwidth to heal, both individually and together.
I'm thankful that my wife and I feel very much like we're a team, facing the challenges of parenting, life, homesteading, etc., but we have each other's back. It was not always that way. Kids show you your own inadequacies, which is a two-edged sword, but I think in our case, thank God, it helped us pare back some of the life junk that was not helpful to our family life. This is offered as a comment, not a prescription.
I'll reiterate my recommendation to pick up "Generation to Generation" by Ed Friedman. His thesis is: When you encounter what seems an intractable relationship tug-of-war, there is almost always a third node forming a triangle. That can often be a past family experience, it can be a job or idea sometimes, but the point being that a seemingly-intractable two-way stasis can be approached from a third angle, which will often open relationship opportunities that you didn't even think of. Healing a parent or sibling relationship might unlock healing in a marriage relationship, for instance. There's no magic here, but there is helpful commitment to the possibility of healing - not a guarantee of perfect outcomes, just the conviction based on faith, hope, and love that in all situations, no matter how dark, some more light can shine, and that would be an improvement.
Best wishes to you and your wife,
Mark

Brody Ekberg wrote:

M Waisman wrote:Can you see yourselves happily married in 10 years?

I can't read every word but it's clear that patterns are well-engrained for both of you and neither of you seems to do the work to make impactful change. (That's blunt, I'm sorry. It's what I see in this thread). Good people aren't always good together- we've all seen those relationships surely. It's okay.

I love what Matt said about not giving up. That is 100% possible in a healthy marriage. Not every marriage has that fortitude. Your marital bond is weak and it would take radical changes and a miracle to change it, from my inconsequential perspective.

You sound resentful (you come across as kind and gentle, but still a lot of blame) and as though your mind wa made up a while ago. It's apparent that there is not mutual understanding and mutual desire. If there is mutual understanding and mutual desire for a marriage to work, then I believe that the answer is no, marriage shouldn't be so hard as yours is.

My marriage is REALLY GOOD. I married an emotionally intelligent man, very different than me, but our values are well-aligned and we adore doing and exploring life together. We're not exemplary but we're happy. "Marriage is hard work" doesn't really ring true for me...love and take care of yourself AND each other then things mostly flow- when it's the right person.

Do I see us happily married in 10 years? My answer is, it probably depends on how she slept the night before. She is literally a different person well rested vs sleep deprived, and I never know who Im going to get on a day to day basis. 2 mornings ago I said “how are you this morning?” Her response was, “Im good, I slept great last night”. Possibly the first time Ive ever heard her say those words. This morning I said “good morning babe.” Her response was “no, theres nothing good about it. I slept like shit, I feel like shit, I want to burn the house down and I have no interest in doing today.”

-- Do you honestly place your marriage's happiness on how your wife slept the previous night?  That is telling, if so.

Thats what Im working with…

As far as you saying neither of us are making real changes, what do you mean specifically?

-- I'm seeing a lot of people offering support, ideas, feedback, etc and many of your responses are (politely) contrarian and many are blameful/resentful. It's not often in these pages are you embracing improving your situation, even for some rather small steps or things you are capable of managing entirely on your own. We can only know your wife by what you tell us, but I'm reading these posts as both of you are pretty deep in apathy.

And what makes you think our marital bond is weak? Wouldn’t I have left her by now due to not wanting to deal with this? Wouldnt she have left me when she felt neglected and abandoned? Neither of us has left and neither of us has cheated. What signs of weakness are you seeing?

-- IDK...I don't see marriage in the same light perhaps..."dealing with this," wanting the partner to be so different than they are, having these conversations with (loving and supportive) strangers and not her...none of those things paint a picture of a strong and loving bond/marriage. To me it appears your marriage is more like an obligation you have, rather than a choice to love and support a life partner (my view). I believe your original questions were around how hard marriage should be and if your circumstances were exceptional in some way. There are a lot of loving and fulfilling marriages with partners growing and enjoying their lives together.

Yes I am a bit resentful. Why and how wouldn’t I be? She also has had resentments but I do think she has started moving on from them. As far as mutual understanding goes, no, we dont understand eachother. We think very differently. Many things she believes and does makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever and I think she would say the same about me.

-- You have every right to be resentful. Or any other feelings you have.

-- Please don't take my opinions to heart too much. I can empathize with you both and you both seem so unhappy much of the time.

Angel Hunt wrote:I agree with M Waisman's assessment. I get the feeling that you would leave your wife in an instant if you hit it off with someone you think is better (which seems like a low bar at this point).

To me, you sound like you actively dislike your wife. You have now written pages and pages of all the things you do not like about her, all the things she does wrong, all the ways she does not measure up to what you want. I am sure she picks up on this constant judgment from you, and that is exacerbating the situation. Additionally, you seem to dismiss her wants and needs outright whenever you decide that they don't make sense. That is not how a healthy relationship works. One partner does not get sole authority to decide whether the other partner's needs are valid. Giving her only what you want to give her is not going to meet her needs.

I really feel for her. To be sure, being in a broken relationship is emotionally taxing for both parties, but she is the one being picked apart and continually reminded that she is not good enough the way she is, that everything she likes and every choice she makes is deficient and inferior to whatever you would choose. Changing her is the only change you appear interested in. You seem to have already decided that she is the sole problem in the marriage. What a toll that must be taking on her! No wonder her confidence is low and she believes that no one else would put up with her but you.

Mark Miner wrote:Tereza has an excellent point, and it's a basic caution when recieving only one perspective: leave the door open to other evidence. Brody has made clear in the past that his asking for counsel here is not a secret from his wife, and the forum is permies. As far as I can tell, that is adequate transparency, but all of us who are so far removed from the situation would do well to keep careful balance in our own assessments.

There's also a caution here about mapping our own experiences onto others. Of course we judge by our own experiences, they are our strongest evidence base and should inform our thinking. However, nobody's situation is 100% identical, and I can't say "my wife's depression is like your wife's depression" or even "my struggles and frustrations are like yours", all I can do is state my own experience and perhaps carefully make notes that likely apply to more people in more places than just me, but Brody has to weigh the application to his own life. From my perspective, he has done hard things so far, and hung on, and is able to appreciate and enjoy the good patches. That is great news! Perhaps a little crack in the gloom can widen, but all light is welcome.

Best to you, Brody, keep praying and working for the good.
Mark

M Waisman wrote:I think you're implying that I inferred this was secret from his wife, which I did not. To clarify my point that may have been misrepresented or misconstrued, from what Brody shares with us and what he's asked us for, it is my opinion that these deeply intimate conversations on this public forum are important to have with one's SO to have an healthy/loving/understanding/compassionate marriage relationship with that person. It's not a criticism or even an implication but an answer to his question of why I thought the marital bond was weak.

I wish you'd stop calling her crazy.

This conversation has had me thinking about it all times of day in many contexts over several months; it is important to share our mutual understandings when someone is asking for understanding or help. Overall, I think there has been an ocean of information shared and if someone is reading this, their comments are likely more genuine than judgmental.
Brody, you asked this:
"So, I guess what I want to know is, how many of you out there are happily married and have been for years? Happy like you dont have resentment , dont silently (or not so silently) think your spouse is crazy, dont have a long list of things you would like to change about them, and really feel like you have harmonious growth as a couple. Do you feel that you and your partner are very compatible (meaning your differences lead to harmonious growth for both) or are you happily married because of how much hard work, tongue biting and compromise you’ve had to put in? I just have this idea in my head that theres a woman out there who would have most of the same priorities as me, would be emotionally/mentally secure and stable, would share values and goals with me and would somehow be attainable as well (like not impossible to find). Do I have some fairy tale idea of what a happy, healthy marriage could look like? Or are some of you out there happily married to this person?"

To me, the answer to the overarching question is that, yes, marriages without constant strife and struggle but with mutual compatibility, understanding and growth are absolutely possible- and not uncommon. It is not a fairy tale. I would never think my spouse is crazy or want to change a long list of things about him. I also would never wonder if I should go get swept off my feet by someone else. It has never occurred to me because we fulfill each other's needs.

Brody, I hope you can clear this struggle with a peaceful resolution. You both deserve to be loved and be happy. Every person contributes good and bad to a relationship and I hope you both can work on your own shortcomings AND both focus on the good bits you each bring forward, let the crack of light in the dark grow, and find a way out that fills you up. Baby steps, 1% better, next achievable thing, etc.