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What to do? Different goals than the spouse  RSS feed

 
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I live in a small town in the midwest. Small 1 bedroom house 2.5 car garages.

Whole place is basically permaculture, 7 fruit trees, 40x40 garden that I use a full complement of david bradley implements on, strawberry patch and asparagus patch. Lot is 150x60.

I like what we've got here. If I could just add 5 acres onto it I'd personally be happy. However.... my wife doesn't help with the garden much at all nor does she seem to want to conserve money at all. We go out to eat way too much and rarely save any money. Some of that is my fault because I do get disability for being severely hard of hearing and run a small (nearly negative cash flow by design) handyman business. All my profits are reinvested in tools and the mileage deduction is real nice. My wife is a former city girl and I grew up in a small town so now I've seen that we really have opposite views on life. I'd be happy staying at home, drinking mint tea and singing kumbaya all day and she likes to go to the city that is 60 miles away just for a sonic chili dog. We do have a prius so it's not that expensive to do it... just the whole mindset annoys me. Money in the bank = lets go have fun/go shopping.... no planning for the future at all and no interest in going to the park just to go for walks and such. She does work a full-time job with crazy hours, lots of shifts 3-11 which is hard for me as I normally do handyman work 9-5. She SAYS she loves having a garden and all that jazz but I get no SUPPORT. If I want something preserved I have to do everything all by myself.

I was born and raised 30 miles from where we live now.... but I'm also fed up with living in the middle of corn and beans that gets sprayed every year. I personally have lived in the Ozarks for 3 months in a camper remodeling a friend's house.... and my wife and I spent a week on vacation at my friend's house staying in a hotel. Now the friend is mad at me because he feels that I owe him $2000 so we haven't talked in a few years but I'd like to pay it eventually. My wife doesn't want anything to do with said friend and would rather buy our own place in the Ozarks. But.... I don't want to buy a place with her when she doesn't do very much around the place we've got now and talks about D. all the time.

I'll be inheriting a nice sum of money- not enough to pay cash for a $150K acreage but enough to really make a dent in the purchase price and could pay cash for the right place. I don't think I'd mind living in rugged conditions for awhile but I'm pretty sure my wife has no interest in that. We have no kids and I don't see them anywhere in the future due to my wife's health.

Hopefully you can read between the lines and see what I'm getting at. Just feeling really discouraged. I've looked forward to this inheritance for 15 years now and now that it's almost time to get it I'm quite torn on what to do. So hard to do something when I feel like I'm being sabotaged by my wife who just sees "money to spend" while I see a potential way to get myself set up for life. We do have $4K in cc that should be paid off that we don't seem to be able to pay off for over 5 years as well, that's $120 every month. What I'd like is support in setting up the handyman business and going out to flip houses until we have enough cash to buy a $150K acreage but I don't see my wife supporting that idea at this point. She'd like me to buy her a new minivan for $5K.... we don't need a minivan at this point in time. Do I give her a D and find someone else who has more financial skills and common sense... or what? I don't want to look back in 5 years and say that I should have flipped houses instead of blowing the money on things she wants.

So hard when it feels like I'm doing everything by myself when a good marriage should be about common goals and dreams. I hate to give her a D but the fact of the matter even spiritually we are quite distant as she has very little interest in in-depth discussion of spiritual topics. Which is ironic as she claims she loves Revelation and took a class on it in school, but has never discussed it with me to any length. I grew up Ind. Baptist and she grew up the daughter of a Wesleyan minister so you'd think we have something to talk about but she has no interest in discussing. I spend most of my time on the computer researching and she spends most of her time watching various TV shows that I try to tell her (why) they are bad to watch but she has no interest in listening. The other night she was watching America's Got Talent with that damn demon that came on... I did NOT appreciate that at all. It's been over 7 years and I'm nearly 35 now.

Any thoughts?
 
master steward
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I think you've got lots of options here. (I'm speaking as someone who believes that marriage is a life-long commitment and covenant, and should only be ended if someone is abusive/cheating. But, I fully admit that is a minority belief. The great thing about permies is you'll get a lot of different perspectives, which I love! Anyway, I just mentioned that, because my advice comes from the framework of figuring out how to make a marriage work, and everything else is a secondary priority.)

Anyway, here's some ideas that may or may not help, but have helped my husband and I:

(1) Sit down together and write down your goals and dreams. What's important to you, and to her. Don't pass judgment. Just first write them down. Then you can go and give pros and cons. But first, write down what you both think is important. You may find some overlap!

(2) Make a budget. Figure out how much should be for food, housing, etc. Then, allot both of you some personal spending if you have any money left to spare. She can use hers for buying food at Sonic or new things, you can use yours for your handyman business. A lot of pressure in marriage, I think, comes from feeling like you have no choices or freedom. Work that in there! Allow her the freedom to "waste" some money, but since you both have personal spending, she'll hopefully keep hers within budget. My husband spends his personal money on toy cars or his fish or on random little fun things that I think aren't necessary. But, it's his money. I spend my personal money buying fruit trees and lighting fixtures and tools. And, I think that's perfectly okay!

(3) Don't expect or force her to like or do what is your passion. My husband likes our garden and our 5 acres...but he's not usually motivated to help. If there's something I need his help with, I ask and I wait. I don't force him. Forcing someone generally makes them hate it. And, he's a different person than me, with a little bit different goals and dreams and passions and priorities. I'm glad he's not me, because that sure would be awkward! He's currently into buying and selling hot wheels. That passion makes little sense to me, but, you know what, he's keeping it in his budget, and he's HAPPY. And because he's happy, he helps more around the house (he cleaned the car today!!!). I've learned a lot about love from seeing how he treats me: he helps me with my passions. He tells me that he loves me and wants to support me in my hobbies, and he takes the kids for walks and drives so I can make fairies and dragons. So, the other day, I watched the kids while he dug through Hot Wheels at the store and found some he could sell online. I supported him, like he supports me.

(4) Invite her into the fun parts of your passions---like picking out seeds or designing a garden bed, or anything she kind-of-sort-of likes. Give her a chance to build a passion for what you love, by showing how passionate you are, letting her have fun with it, and not controlling how she goes about it. If she decides, for example, that she wants a garden somewhere, but it's not where you wanted, try to find a way to go with it and encourage her so the garden feels like her own. I know with my husband and I, he usually doesn't get to make the decisions, and so has no idea what's going on or what's growing somewhere, and he feels distanced from the garden and is afraid to do anything because he'll "mess it up." So, the few times he decides he wants to do something, I don't tell him what I want to do. Instead, I support him, like when he wanted to expand the raspberry patch, or hack through some brambles to make a little secret "thinking rock" or start an apple tree from seed or plant some poppies. I want the garden to be his, too, and to do that, I need to actually let him make decisions in it.

(5) If you need her help, ask humbly and don't force. And, help her with what she needs help with. It goes both ways! Hopefully, she'll see your good works and feel inspired to help you more. My husband cleaned the car today. He even vacuumed it! It was no small task. It wasn't what I thought was the highest priority, but, that's okay! He wanted to do it, so I supported him in it and watched the kids and heaped praise on him. Most people like praise, even if they don't know how to receive it and may act like they don't want it.

You mentioned that your wife's health is not the best. My husband has Crohn's, and when it was bad, he was really stressed and didn't help as much and desperately wanted to spend thousands of dollars we didn't have on buying and fixing up a classic car. Needless to say, I was against that, as it would have made us go into debt. But, I also needed to give him a lot of grace as he worked through those issues and dealt with his stress and the "retail therapy" he wanted to do. Despite being in his thirties, his illness made him go through a sort of depressed, "mid-life crisis." So, I set boundaries on our budget, and tried to give him reasons why his choice wasn't the best, but mostly I gave him space. And, now he's past that, and is passionate about something a lot less expensive--mainly, collecting and selling Hot Wheels. It's not my passion, but it can fit within our goals and our limited money, so I help him and encourage him.
 
J Anders
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Nicole-

Thank you so much for your perspective. I really appreciate it! Lots of good ideas there.
I hope you guys have gotten your husband's Chrons under control. I've talked to a fellow who had those kinds of issues and turned out that he was actually very allergic to some component in corn if I recall right. As long as he doesn't eat anything that contains that contaminant- he's fine. The problem is that 90% of the processed food out there has that contaminant in it!!! They had also lived in a home with severe black mold issues for several months which really compromised everyone's health.
I am not on any social media so I thought I'd join here.
Thanks!
 
gardener
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Since there are no kids involved, I'd be very likely to lose the wife, and either homestead solo, or start a commune, or find a more compatible wife.
 
pollinator
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Im bad cause i like to flip things on its side. If it was your wife making the post, is this the general story:

He lacks ambition. What little money he makes, he spends on more tools. In the meantime im working
nightshifts to make ends meet.....

There are 2 people in a marriage. Are you meeting her expectations? Are you willing to meet hers? I hope i am not offending you with this post. Nothing you stated seems likea big concern. Many people use gardening as a getaway and appreciate the solitude.

 
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Hi, J.

You are under no obligation to join your wife in doing the things that she wishes to do. You do not have to join her for chick flicks, new car buying, window shopping, or whatever. Different people have different interests, is all.  And, by the same token, she does not have to share your dreams either. She has her own dreams: the TRICK is for both of you to be able to pursue your dreams

My own husband had a dream of making cities grow, while I had a dream of disappearing into the woods and only coming out when I chose to. We HAVE managed to be blissfully happy even so, but it does take negotiation and compromise, as we loved each other but have always had different goals and dreams. So he got a job in a SMALL city, and he drove out to the country on a highway what he thought was a reasonable commute, and that was where we bought a home. Later on we bought bare land further out.

But this is about you, not me. Every couple does have to do their own negotiating. If the 2 of you *DO* stay together, please make sure she can drive herself to town, since she values it.

Money. Money turned out to be a biggie. Each of us wanted to spend it on our own dreams, and buying a farm is expensive. Also my husband loves to shop. We eventually set up a monthly amount of money for my husband to enjoy as he wishes, no questions asked. That helped a bit, your own solution would be?

Lastly, there was a myth in the 70's when I was growing up that a couple had to be "compatible". Nope. Not a bit of it. Being COMPLEMENTARY works also. I have my own set of skills and interests and my husband has his: between the 2 of us we can do just about anything.

My advice to you- and free advice is often worth what you pay for it, is to work on the money end by working out a budget so that each of you can use your allotted money to follow your own set of dreams. That will probably mean a budget. I regard my husbands spending money to be untouchable, and it is my job to manage on the rest of it. Fortunately my own interests include saving and gardening, which does help.

And, when I got an inheritance I did keep it, with my husbands enthusiastic approval. It is what he considers to be right.

One last comment: your wife will probably never help you outside. It does not appear to be an interest of hers'. DO NOT EXPECT HER TO, it does not turn out well! Make your plans for what you can do with your own hands, and let it be. Every person is entitled to their own dreams, and her dreams do not seem to be yours.

As I have said, my husband has no interest in agriculture and I do, and to make things harder I am now handicapped. I STILL ask for no more than perhaps 30 minutes of help PER MONTH! Modern times are wonderful, and I have a riding mower, weed barrier on the garden, a greenhouse I built when I was healthier, raised beds for when I am not as strong as I am right now, and I pay a young relative $20 an hour to help me if I need more muscle than I have. Because, ONLY one person will fit in one person's skin, and my DH has his own dreams to follow. I want him to be able to follow them.

I see that this is your first post: WELCOME! Since my DH does not care to talk about outside activities, I go to the internet to talk to people with similar interests. I hope to see more of you soon!
 
J Anders
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Joseph Lofthouse wrote:
Since there are no kids involved, I'd be very likely to lose the wife, and either homestead solo, or start a commune, or find a more compatible wife.



I knew someone would say that!
 
J Anders
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wayne fajkus wrote:Im bad cause i like to flip things on its side. If it was your wife making the post, is this the general story:

He lacks ambition. What little money he makes, he spends on more tools. In the meantime im working
nightshifts to make ends meet.....



I completely understand why you came up with that perspective. However, we spend about 25% of my income to pay all the bills. All the money she makes is just gravy. I'd.... and She'd rather be working just so she's not at home sitting around watching TV all the time. I'm a mechanic, handyman, and complete DIY'er. I won't hire anyone else to do anything for me besides replacing/repairing tires, and I do have a deal with the local tire shop in which I had worked for him for awhile so now I get to come in and buy tires at cost and mount them myself as well as repair them myself. The only other things I hire someone to do include recharging a/c on cars and alignment work. So our bills here are extremely low.

I should have mentioned all of this in my OP because that's the other part of what makes it so hard to move out of our current situation. Taxes for us are $250/yr, any acreage in Iowa would be $1000/yr in taxes, an acreage that we'd like in MO would be about $100/yr in taxes plus personal property taxes which aren't an issue due to the fact we drive cars that aren't worth more than $5000 to purchase. But then we'd be 200 miles from my mom and being an only child myself that's even harder.

wayne fajkus wrote: There are 2 people in a marriage. Are you meeting her expectations? Are you willing to meet hers? I hope i am not offending you with this post. Nothing you stated seems like a big concern. Many people use gardening as a getaway and appreciate the solitude.



I've never quite figured out what she wants out of our marriage. She constantly talks about having kids but won't make the necessary changes to her diet and lifestyle to have children. Having constant blood sugar 250-300 does nothing for your child bearing ability (normal is 120) and she doesn't have health insurance or take medication for it. I've encouraged her to purchase christian health sharing insurance, $85/month with $1000 deductible but that's not on her list of priorities. I personally have insurance but I don't use it for anything but hearing aids.
 
wayne fajkus
pollinator
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I hope you both find what you are looking for.
 
pollinator
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I totally agree with Joseph. Life is too short to put up with an incompatible marriage.

Nicole - while I acknowledge your experience might be different, most marriages break up because a spouse is abusive/cheating. People don't leave good marriages, in my experience.

While it is doubtful that I will ever have that kind of romantic relationship again (my choice), differing expectations can enter all kinds of relationships, see the thread about volunteers that make you go hmm. I struggle with this with my adult children.

But whatever you decide, I wish you well.
 
J Anders
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Terri Matthews wrote:Hi, J.

You are under no obligation to join your wife in doing the things that she wishes to do. You do not have to join her for chick flicks, new car buying, window shopping, or whatever. Different people have different interests, is all.  And, by the same token, she does not have to share your dreams either. She has her own dreams: the TRICK is for both of you to be able to pursue your dreams

My own husband had a dream of making cities grow, while I had a dream of disappearing into the woods and only coming out when I chose to. We HAVE managed to be blissfully happy even so, but it does take negotiation and compromise, as we loved each other but have always had different goals and dreams. So he got a job in a SMALL city, and he drove out to the country on a highway what he thought was a reasonable commute, and that was where we bought a home. Later on we bought bare land further out.

But this is about you, not me. Every couple does have to do their own negotiating. If the 2 of you *DO* stay together, please make sure she can drive herself to town, since she values it. 



Thank you for your thoughts, I do appreciate them. "I had a dream of disappearing into the woods and only coming out when I chose to" is basically exactly how I'd like to feel. I hate the pressure.... we have cold turkey sandwiches or plenty of food from the garden to eat... today she said "i want a whopper" so we went to BK 30 miles away and had whoppers. If I say no she'll sulk for hours.

Money. Money turned out to be a biggie. Each of us wanted to spend it on our own dreams, and buying a farm is expensive. Also my husband loves to shop. We eventually set up a monthly amount of money for my husband to enjoy as he wishes, no questions asked. That helped a bit, your own solution would be?



That sounds like a good idea.... hard for my wife and I to do though I think. She hates having any restrictions put on spending. If I say we'll go spend $100 in the city we'll invariably spend $300. If I say nothing, we'll spend $50.

  Lastly, there was a myth in the 70's when I was growing up that a couple had to be "compatible". Nope. Not a bit of it. Being COMPLEMENTARY works also. I have my own set of skills and interests and my husband has his: between the 2 of us we can do just about anything.

My advice to you- and free advice is often worth what you pay for it, is to work on the money end by working out a budget so that each of you can use your allotted money to follow your own set of dreams. That will probably mean a budget. I regard my husbands spending money to be untouchable, and it is my job to manage on the rest of it. Fortunately my own interests include saving and gardening, which does help.

And, when I got an inheritance I did keep it, with my husbands enthusiastic approval. It is what he considers to be right.



I would hope that we could figure that one out but even just splitting the bills and what ever each one of us makes is our spending money seems impossible to do.

One last comment: your wife will probably never help you outside. It does not appear to be an interest of hers'. DO NOT EXPECT HER TO, it does not turn out well! Make your plans for what you can do with your own hands, and let it be. Every person is entitled to their own dreams, and her dreams do not seem to be yours. 



That's one of those things that really annoys me. When we got married (worked together at camp in 04, started talking again in Jan 2011 and married late March 2011) she told me that she grew up with a big garden and that she loved gardening. Then when we're together and the rubber meets the road it's invariably too hot, too cold, too many bugs, or something else. I got her out to the garden this spring for less than an hour to plant seeds into a funnel and a piece of conduit and she's been reminding me that she "helped in the garden" all year.... while I go do all the weeding. And she's flat out told me she will not do any weeding. Or harvesting apparently.

Now before you ask me why we didn't date longer... her lease was up shortly after we got married and she lived 100 miles away. I'd gotten tired of driving down there. At camp she was always smiling. She can be that cheerful girl sometimes but the big picture is what I'm looking at now and I'm just.... tired. I can't chase my dreams of running a small successful handyman business (and eventually a small organic farm) when my wife is working 3-11 and wants me to spend more time with her. I did a big job for about 2 months recently and the refrain every day was the same.... when will you be done with that job I'm so tired of you being gone all the time. She doesn't seem to be able to see the fact that she makes $11/hr and I make at least $25/hr and do the simple math- help me with handyman business (phone calls-I'm hard of hearing) and do something at home instead of running your own tail off trying to make half of what I can earn. But then if she stayed home and I was working the story is exactly the same... why can't we spend more time together you're working too much. I can't win either way. And when I was working I'd go to the city on a regular basis for supplies so we'd go over and go out to eat and all of that, which I could care less because I take a $50 mileage deduction every time I go.

As I have said, my husband has no interest in agriculture and I do, and to make things harder I am now handicapped. I STILL ask for no more than perhaps 30 minutes of help PER MONTH! Modern times are wonderful, and I have a riding mower, weed barrier on the garden, a greenhouse I built when I was healthier, raised beds for when I am not as strong as I am right now, and I pay a young relative $20 an hour to help me if I need more muscle than I have. Because, ONLY one person will fit in one person's skin, and my DH has his own dreams to follow. I want him to be able to follow them.

I see that this is your first post: WELCOME! Since my DH does not care to talk about outside activities, I go to the internet to talk to people with similar interests. I hope to see more of you soon!


And that is why I joined Permies. I used to be on another forum under the handle skittles but it was a general homesteading forum and I'm more interested in permaculture and growing stuff that I don't have to mess around with all the time. I've got some parts of my yard under control permie wise but other parts need a great deal of continued attention.  For one thing... I need to get my strawberries under control... crabgrass has destroyed them.

I don't have many friends or any kind of social media anymore... I spend a lot of time on the chan but that's not a place for personal relationships and I miss that. So I thank you guys for responding. I know a girl down the street that I'd think would love to be friends with my wife but my wife flat out refuses to meet her because my mom introduced her to me before I married my wife. That other girl wasn't marriage material but she would be a great friend to my wife. We moved to this town several years after we got married.
 
J Anders
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Stacy Witscher wrote:I totally agree with Joseph. Life is too short to put up with an incompatible marriage.

Nicole - while I acknowledge your experience might be different, most marriages break up because a spouse is abusive/cheating. People don't leave good marriages, in my experience.

While it is doubtful that I will ever have that kind of romantic relationship again (my choice), differing expectations can enter all kinds of relationships, see the thread about volunteers that make you go hmm. I struggle with this with my adult children.

But whatever you decide, I wish you well.



If I was honest with myself about it I would have to say that there is some of that going on and I'm frankly getting tired of it.

I appreciate your thoughts. It's a struggle. I don't care to be alone or "throw away a 7 yr marriage" but I also don't care to spend a lifetime feeling like I didn't succeed because my wife had different expectations. Having a disability doesn't make anything easier either. I see other people out there who seem to really respect/want to have someone with my skill set and WANT to be complementary to my skill set (sewing, herbs, cooking, want to be off grid, etc.) but those people are also few as well. But it only takes 1 person.

 
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It sounds like your wife doesn't mind having a pig pen out the back door, she just doesn't want to clean it or do anywork involved with it.
She like the romantic cabin look but not the actually work of building it or hauling water, etc.

In some ways you are lucky that she as a city lady would even be okay with living in the country, in some ways it is sad that she doesn't actually want to pull weeds and such.

I would say prep everything so that when the money arrives it will all be spent in 5days. So that the money doesn't get diverted to other places.

Get your fruit tree order list ready, send it to a nursery from now, start the conversation, so that once the money arrive you can write a bank check/ money order and mail it off and it is all taken care.
Find the land now, tell them you will rent the land now for the next 6month if they give you the option to buy it at the end of the 6month. So when the money comes in it just finalizing the payment.
Have a few earthworks guys ready to start digging your ditches /swales.
Line up a few source for woochip/straw, etc
See if you can build your house in a prefab, so that as soon as you get the money it will leave your pocket.
(I like 6-12inch thick insulation board prefab with 'rebar' exoskeleton that is given a special cement plaster give it a finish, see vid below)

You might need start contacting electricians, city officials/permit application, maybe even a general manager to hold the money and pay it out to the sub-contractor.
Basically you want to tie up as much of the money as soon as possible.




 
J Anders
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S Bengi wrote:It sounds like your wife doesn't mind having a pig pen out the back door, she just doesn't want to clean it or do any work involved with it.
She like the romantic cabin look but not the actually work of building it or hauling water, etc.


That's pretty much the size of the situation. The ironic thing is that where my friend lives in Arkansas, the old city spring is about 2 miles down the road so a lot of people haul water from there. It's actually really cool.

In some ways you are lucky that she as a city lady would even be okay with living in the country, in some ways it is sad that she doesn't actually want to pull weeds and such.


Some ways.... but when I do all the work with the garden and all the food sits in the basement for 4 years because she only uses 10 jars of green beans every year it's annoying. Lately I've been drying everything. Lasts longer and is lighter weight.

nI would say prep everything so that when the money arrives it will all be spent in 5days. So that the money doesn't get diverted to other places 


That's a nice thought but I'm not going to do that. I'll just tell her if she wants something bad enough here's the divorce papers. In the state I currently live in she has no right to it as its my personal inheritance.
 
pollinator
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My thoughts, in no particular order:

1.  Get counseling.  You are not happy, so even if she's content, you should still go to counseling.  From the sounds of things, you're both unhappy, so both of you should agree to it.  A good counselor is worth his/her weight in gold.  And don't go cheep on this . . . get referrals and find someone who is excellent.

2.  If you want to save money, then you've got to find a way to take that money out of circulation before it gets spent.  That means that you have it automatically deducted and set aside somewhere where it will not be available.  Set up a Roth IRA with automatic deductions every month. 

3.  There appears to be a communication problem on your part, and a discipline problem on your wife's part.  Flowing from that observation . . .

4.  Marriages are all about expectations.  The title of this thread is "Different goals", but expectations are something more basic and primal.  Often we don't even know that we have them, yet we feel resentment or disappointment when our expectations are unmet.  All healthy relationships are based upon clearly expressing your expectations, making plans to meet those expectations, making compromises, bartering and trading off so that both partners get something . . .  You seem to be expressing your desire here, but for whatever reason, your wife isn't willing or able to meet those expectations (like saving more money, spending more time at home rather than driving off to the big city, etc.).  A good counselor will help you surface the expectations you may have difficulty expressing. 

5.  There is no stronger negative human emotion than contempt.  Get help before it gets to that.  Once you reach the contempt stage, it's like Stage 4 cancer for your relationship.

6.  The assumption that there is someone better out there who you will just naturally click with is a fantasy.  That's what you felt about this woman before you married her.   I agree with Nicole . . . work it out.  The grass isn't greener over the fence.  Water your own grass.
 
J Anders
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Marco Banks wrote:
6.  The assumption that there is someone better out there who you will just naturally click with is a fantasy.  That's what you felt about this woman before you married her.   I agree with Nicole . . . work it out.  The grass isn't greener over the fence.  Water your own grass.



Very good thought. Thank you for your comments.
 
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Since you seem to be genuine and open I'll tell you what I interpreted from your message. Hope it helps in some way.

I was where you are, to a lesser degree.  I wanted to do permaculture.  I dug 30,000 gallons of red clay in my back yard with a shovel and a wheelbarrow to do aquaponics.  I built a cob pizza oven.  Planted veggies and got tilapia fingerlings.  split firewood and stacked it.  All of this alone, because I wanted it and she didn't.  Simple as that. 

We'd been married 20 years at the time and had two kids.  It was clear we were on two different paths.  But it's live and let live!  We'd always done different things. 

Fast forward to now.  I've been divorced two years and it has been absolutely wonderful.  Every day I wake up refreshed and grateful that I am not in that relationship anymore.  Nobody cheated, but people I confide in say she was abusive, which may be true, but it doesn't matter.  I'm on my own now.  Which I kind of already was.

I bring this up because you kinda are already on your own.  Different schedules, different interests. So the question in my mind is, why?

You are hyperfocused on this inheritance and exactly how you are going to spend it. Is the land worth more than your marriage?  If so, get a divorce and get the land.  Guilt free, seriously.  I'm not being flippant, but pragmatic. It will be the right thing if that's what you want.  If your life's goal is to get 150 acres of land in a specific state a specific distance from any town, you are being pretty specific, and there's no room in that for your wife. I'm sure you are thinking of her, but there's no room for the living, organic, quirky lady that is your wife in those calculations.

Now if you said, "Hey I'm getting this inheritance, and I am going to buy land of some kind somewhere regardless.  Where do you think it should be, honey?  This one has a Sonic five miles down the road!"  If that conversation went well, and she got what she wanted and you got what you wanted, it would be a win win.

I want to echo a former poster that my alarm bells went off when you said you design your handyman business to lose money.  I'm sure you're smart and have your reasons, it just rang my alarm bells.  If I were married to you, it would ring my alarm bells a lot. 

Also it sounds like she doesn't feel valued.  It's easy to be so focused that we forget to see and listen to the people around us, what they need, what we should ask them.  You could turn this thing around.  This might be the 7 year itch where you both need to readjust to each other.

From what you've said, it seems to me like she at least is thinking of divorce.  It seems to me like it might go that way.  If it does, please embrace the positives of your post-married life while honoring what you ended.  You gain nothing if you get divorced and then live in regret.  Seize the day, hopefully with her, both of you adjusting together.  Or seize it alone, all pistons firing.

 
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Oh boy. I haven’t read any of the comments yet but here is my $.02.

It sounds like you’ve been married for longer than 5 minutes. So I think at this point what it comes down to is this - are you willing to live the rest of your life this way? Forget guilt, forget what you think marriage *should* be and just ask yourself if you are willing or would you even survive) living the entire rest of your life like this.

Only you can decide the answer to that question. Personally I went through a similar-ish situation a few years back. My ex always talked a good talk about mountain life but when push came to shove, he basically went off in a different direction. I ended up divorcing him after years of struggling to get him to be present with us. I have absolutely no regrets whatsoever. Life is so much better. Even if I stay single for the rest of my life, it is preferable than spending my life with someone who really truly feels like the proverbial ball and chain.

You can read more about my story here, lots of really amazing advice in the thread - https://permies.com/t/42437/normal-Permie-marriage
 
J Anders
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Rob Lineberger wrote:Since you seem to be genuine and open I'll tell you what I interpreted from your message. Hope it helps in some way. 


Thank you for the, compliment... I do try to be genuine.

I was where you are, to a lesser degree.  I wanted to do permaculture.  I dug 30,000 gallons of red clay in my back yard with a shovel and a wheelbarrow to do aquaponics.  I built a cob pizza oven.  Planted veggies and got tilapia fingerlings.  split firewood and stacked it.  All of this alone, because I wanted it and she didn't.  Simple as that. 


Those all sound like awesome things to do! Now if I could put some money together!

We'd been married 20 years at the time and had two kids.  It was clear we were on two different paths.  But it's live and let live!  We'd always done different things. 

Fast forward to now.  I've been divorced two years and it has been absolutely wonderful.  Every day I wake up refreshed and grateful that I am not in that relationship anymore.  Nobody cheated, but people I confide in say she was abusive, which may be true, but it doesn't matter.  I'm on my own now.  Which I kind of already was.

I bring this up because you kinda are already on your own.  Different schedules, different interests. So the question in my mind is, why?



That's pretty much the question that I'm asking myself now as well. I am in the same boat. I see the fact that she's abusive but I don't want to confront it. I'm hard of hearing, she can hear fine... which makes for a crappy dynamic and I think she's frankly tired of dealing with my hearing loss at times. Just recently she's made a half hearted effort to learn sign language but that's about all it is. One of my pet peeves is that she'll go to the bathroom and call my name because she thought of something... when she was just sitting right next to me two minutes before. So I have to get up and go see what she wants. Aggravating.

You are hyperfocused on this inheritance and exactly how you are going to spend it. Is the land worth more than your marriage?  If so, get a divorce and get the land.  Guilt free, seriously.  I'm not being flippant, but pragmatic. It will be the right thing if that's what you want.  If your life's goal is to get 150 acres of land in a specific state a specific distance from any town, you are being pretty specific, and there's no room in that for your wife. I'm sure you are thinking of her, but there's no room for the living, organic, quirky lady that is your wife in those calculations.

Now if you said, "Hey I'm getting this inheritance, and I am going to buy land of some kind somewhere regardless.  Where do you think it should be, honey?  This one has a Sonic five miles down the road!"  If that conversation went well, and she got what she wanted and you got what you wanted, it would be a win win.

I wouldn't consider myself hyperfocused... knowing me I'll leave the money in the bank until I find something that I can't lose with. I've been "land shopping" for 3 years now just to get a feel for prices, what can be found, and where. I have a real good idea of what would be considered an "ideal" place in terms of price that I could live with. I wouldn't say the land is more important than the marriage but having a reasonable level of success in the future and not struggling forever is more important than WHO I do it with. A cabin deep in the hills with a garden spot and with a larger city within 45-60 miles where I could do $200/day in handyman work that I only had to do less than a week a month to pay all the bills would be a dream come true.

My good friend in Arkansas has 12 acres and I could just build a cabin there and spend my summers in Iowa and winters in Arkansas. But that definitely is not happening with the wife because she doesn't like him one lousy bit. He's 74 years old now and I don't know how long he'll be around. He's known me since I was small and he has no kids so........... That's part of what is driving my thought process right now. I'm losing friends (because) I'm married. $2k to shut him up on a bad deal from 2012/13 (haven't talked to him since) and $5k for a cabin and I'd personally be in a perfect situation but the wife wants nothing to do with him. He had moved to Arkansas the year before we'd married so he didn't meet her first. He even called her a f*t toad to my mom. I have a second cousin in the large city nearby where we do all our regular shopping that I used to stop by and visit 2-3 times a year before we got married that I haven't stopped by in 7 years because my wife can't be bothered while we're over there.

I want to echo a former poster that my alarm bells went off when you said you design your handyman business to lose money.  I'm sure you're smart and have your reasons, it just rang my alarm bells.  If I were married to you, it would ring my alarm bells a lot. 

I understand. Right now I'm getting disability so I can't make more than $1000/month but I can run my own business and make how ever much I want if it goes back to business expenses. Most jobs are 30 to 40 miles away so that's a $15-20 deduction daily just for that, and then buying tools. Supplies are 120 mile round trip and that is a $55 deduction that only costs $5 in gas. It all adds up and I still have enough left over to go out to eat and other things we do. In the future I have a goal of making more money. At this point in time I'm working on buying tools for the business so I can handle enough of a variety of jobs that I shouldn't see myself out of work.

Also it sounds like she doesn't feel valued.  It's easy to be so focused that we forget to see and listen to the people around us, what they need, what we should ask them.  You could turn this thing around.  This might be the 7 year itch where you both need to readjust to each other.

From what you've said, it seems to me like she at least is thinking of divorce.  It seems to me like it might go that way.  If it does, please embrace the positives of your post-married life while honoring what you ended.  You gain nothing if you get divorced and then live in regret.  Seize the day, hopefully with her, both of you adjusting together.  Or seize it alone, all pistons firing.b

And you would be correct. I hear it on a daily basis about 2/3 of the time.... been going on for several years now. I'm frankly very tired of it. She keeps telling me that "I wont' give her a divorce" and I tell her "If you want a divorce so bad then move back to the city with your family... you don't need a divorce to move out"... a divorce takes 3 months in my state. It's part of the reason why I found this forum and looking for thoughts.

My mother tells me that she's appalled that she even uses the D word and wants to know if her father knows she's talking like that. Feeling valued to the point where I can hardly work because she wants to "spend time together" which normally involves a double recliner and myself on the computer (I love to research but this life is getting old) and her on the TV isn't the kind of life I want. Suggestions of going for walks or any such thing other than going out to eat or going shopping get quickly shot down. 
 
J Anders
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Bethany Dutch wrote:Oh boy. I haven’t read any of the comments yet but here is my $.02.

It sounds like you’ve been married for longer than 5 minutes. So I think at this point what it comes down to is this - are you willing to live the rest of your life this way? Forget guilt, forget what you think marriage *should* be and just ask yourself if you are willing or would you even survive) living the entire rest of your life like this.

Only you can decide the answer to that question. Personally I went through a similar-ish situation a few years back. My ex always talked a good talk about mountain life but when push came to shove, he basically went off in a different direction. I ended up divorcing him after years of struggling to get him to be present with us. I have absolutely no regrets whatsoever. Life is so much better. Even if I stay single for the rest of my life, it is preferable than spending my life with someone who really truly feels like the proverbial ball and chain.

You can read more about my story here - https://permies.com/t/42437/normal-Permie-marriage



THANK YOU for sharing your story!!! Reading it at the moment. Yes... married for over 7 years. I'm happy to see that other people on here have posted about similar experiences- so I'm not the exception! and that there's a lady out there who'd had the same problems that I'm having.... at the same age ironically.
 
J Anders
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Bethany Dutch wrote: (she didn't write it, just in the thread she posted) To be more practical, when you view your husband as a roommate and business partner, how does he stack up? What justifies any emotional weight in that equation? You put him through school and he built you a house. Fair enough! Call it even and get on with your life, because you obviously have the skills and he's just using you as a base to pursue some nonsense. My father was an artist, so I have seen this first hand and the only enlightened thing to do is not to tolerate it.



I saw this in Bethany's thread and this is basically where I'm at.... when I view my wife as a room mate and a business partner I'm questioning if the value is there. Is there enough here to keep going? We bought a vinyl cutter so we could do a business together.... but the cc that was used to pay for it has never been paid off and we've never done anything with the vinyl cutter. Beautiful machine, we've made some cool paintings with it but it's sat in the basement for 3 years now. Did one craft show and made the mistake of not making things to take to the show so my wife assumes it's a losing venture.
 
Bethany Dutch
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J Anders wrote:

Bethany Dutch wrote: (she didn't write it, just in the thread she posted) To be more practical, when you view your husband as a roommate and business partner, how does he stack up? What justifies any emotional weight in that equation? You put him through school and he built you a house. Fair enough! Call it even and get on with your life, because you obviously have the skills and he's just using you as a base to pursue some nonsense. My father was an artist, so I have seen this first hand and the only enlightened thing to do is not to tolerate it.



I saw this in Bethany's thread and this is basically where I'm at.... when I view my wife as a room mate and a business partner I'm questioning if the value is there. Is there enough here to keep going? We bought a vinyl cutter so we could do a business together.... but the cc that was used to pay for it has never been paid off and we've never done anything with the vinyl cutter. Beautiful machine, we've made some cool paintings with it but it's sat in the basement for 3 years now. Did one craft show and made the mistake of not making things to take to the show so my wife assumes it's a losing venture.



Funny, I used my silhouette (and dye sublimation) business to stay afloat after my divorce. If you have power/internet it’s a really good business I think. Now I just design the svg files which works better for me with crap internet.
 
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Bethany Dutch wrote:

J Anders wrote:

Bethany Dutch wrote: (she didn't write it, just in the thread she posted) To be more practical, when you view your husband as a roommate and business partner, how does he stack up? What justifies any emotional weight in that equation? You put him through school and he built you a house. Fair enough! Call it even and get on with your life, because you obviously have the skills and he's just using you as a base to pursue some nonsense. My father was an artist, so I have seen this first hand and the only enlightened thing to do is not to tolerate it.



I saw this in Bethany's thread and this is basically where I'm at.... when I view my wife as a room mate and a business partner I'm questioning if the value is there. Is there enough here to keep going? We bought a vinyl cutter so we could do a business together.... but the cc that was used to pay for it has never been paid off and we've never done anything with the vinyl cutter. Beautiful machine, we've made some cool paintings with it but it's sat in the basement for 3 years now. Did one craft show and made the mistake of not making things to take to the show so my wife assumes it's a losing venture.



Funny, I used my silhouette (and dye sublimation) business to stay afloat after my divorce. If you have power/internet it’s a really good business I think. Now I just design the svg files which works better for me with crap internet.



That is funny.... The one we've got is a 24" Sign Warehouse cutter, package deal with cd's and vinyl. Really really nice machine. Never wanted to get the Silhouette, thought that was a junky brand! Before that we'd bought out a sign shop, sold that setup and made some money, then bought another setup and vinyl, made some money reselling that, and now we bought a new one with up to date software. Didn't do too bad on the reselling business. I had a reselling web address that was real good just never did anything with it. buysell..............com
 
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When reading a thread like this I always wonder if it wouldn't be helpful for the spouse being discussed to read the heartfelt and usually very clear needs of the OP?

And then, I wonder where is the love? 

And then when reading this...

I hear it on a daily basis about 2/3 of the time.... been going on for several years now. I'm frankly very tired of it. She keeps telling me that "I wont' give her a divorce" and I tell her "If you want a divorce so bad then move back to the city with your family... you don't need a divorce to move out"... a divorce takes 3 months in my state. It's part of the reason why I found this forum and looking for thoughts.



I think, give her a divorce...why not? 

Sometimes people aren't made for each other, sometimes they marry for the wrong reasons and sometimes they grow apart.
Why continue if both of you are suffering?  I suppose you could try counseling, maybe it would help but I'm not hearing any 'I love this person and can't live without them' thoughts that would be a basis for marriage counseling.

Take this with a grain of salt from someone who lived with her guy for five years first and has been married for another 43yrs.
We have had some (very) rough patches but actually having love and respect for each other got us through them...growing old together is lovely.
 
Rob Lineberger
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J Anders wrote:... a divorce takes 3 months in my state. It's part of the reason why I found this forum and looking for thoughts.  



I wish you the best!  In my state a divorce can only begin after one year of separation.  Whew! Looooong year.
 
Stacy Witscher
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Rob Lineberger - why would it be a long year? There isn't much difference between being separated and being divorced. Here in California, the only real difference between a legal separation and a divorce is with regards to remarriage. My ex and I were legally separated for about 5-6 years prior to us filing for divorce. In fact, the paperwork is identical, it's just a box to check for separation or divorce.
 
Terri Matthews
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You loved her once: what in the world happened?

It sounds like both of you are trying to change the other, and that never ends well! People are what they are. "Radical acceptance" is accepting what you cannot change. Your wife will probably never want to help you in the garden

And, where I live winter will come in perhaps 2 months time and I do not like that, but because I accept it I can plan for it. Next Saturday I will be buying Fall vegetables to be planted into the new bed I am putting up, and I will harvest and freeze them before winter. IF I HAD NOT ACCEPTED the fact that winter was coming I would have planted seeds and ended up with nothing to show for it. Because I accept what I cannot change I lead a better life

By the same token, your wife is who she is. Accept it and plan for it, so that you lead a rich and fulfilling life.
 
Bethany Dutch
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Terri Matthews wrote:You loved her once: what in the world happened?

It sounds like both of you are trying to change the other, and that never ends well! People are what they are. "Radical acceptance" is accepting what you cannot change. Your wife will probably never want to help you in the garden

And, where I live winter will come in perhaps 2 months time and I do not like that, but because I accept it I can plan for it. Next Saturday I will be buying Fall vegetables to be planted into the new bed I am putting up, and I will harvest and freeze them before winter. IF I HAD NOT ACCEPTED the fact that winter was coming I would have planted seeds and ended up with nothing to show for it. Because I accept what I cannot change I lead a better life

By the same token, your wife is who she is. Accept it and plan for it, so that you lead a rich and fulfilling life.



I think the thing is sometimes we aren’t able to truly see the person until later on. Hell, I dated my ex for a year before I married him and still had no clue he had a violent destructive temper until after we were married. Some things are just minor differences that need to be accepted.  But having a spouse that is actually behaving in ways that are detrimental to your life together (but won’t acknowledge that they are doing so) is unhealthy.

Accepting it is what I tried to do for a decade personally, and nearly had a nervous breakdown for my efforts. I’ll never put marriage on such a a pedestal again to the point of sacrificing my own mental health to continue in it.
 
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Bethany Dutch wrote:
Accepting it is what I tried to do for a decade personally, and nearly had a nervous breakdown for my efforts. I’ll never put marriage on such a a pedestal again to the point of sacrificing my own mental health to continue in it.



I think accepting can also mean accepting that the spouse is someone you are not able to get along with, and therefore it would be appropriate to leave them.
 
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Check the state laws where you live, because it might be the case that if you inherit money, it's all yours, even if you are married, if you don't put it in a joint account.  Put it in a new account under your name only, and only you can touch it, if that's the way it works in your state.

Now, if that causes major issues, then maybe those are the issues that need dealing with.

If you don't have the same goals as you age, then you will have to rethink the whole situation.  And if you buy the property of your dreams and split up, you'll have to buy out her half, or give up half of something to buy out her half.

Changing a lifestyle to something very rural, even 30 minutes remote from what a partner is used to, could very easily cause issues, because it's an hour round trip.  If every trip out and back to that property is a 60-minute trip or a 60-mile round trip, it takes its toll on time, vehicles, gas, patience, comfort, safety, and most importantly, partnership.   And what silently builds is resentment, anger, and frustration.



 
Terri Matthews
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Tyler Ludens wrote:

Bethany Dutch wrote:
Accepting it is what I tried to do for a decade personally, and nearly had a nervous breakdown for my efforts. I’ll never put marriage on such a a pedestal again to the point of sacrificing my own mental health to continue in it.



I think accepting can also mean accepting that the spouse is someone you are not able to get along with, and therefore it would be appropriate to leave them.

Yes!

You cannot really change a person so that they become what you want them to be: they either are or they are not!
 
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Just get a divorce dude.
Then you have your cash and live the way you want.

Your welcome.
 
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J Anders wrote:

Joseph Lofthouse wrote:
Since there are no kids involved, I'd be very likely to lose the wife, and either homestead solo, or start a commune, or find a more compatible wife.



I knew someone would say that!




My problem with that line of thinking is, it is the easy way out.

In my experience, when faced with an easy path, or faced with a harder one; going with the more difficult path is usually the best course of action. This is no different than farming where tractors till, seed, fertilize with urea, spray round-up and harvest...easy, versus that of organic farming where people have to mix compost, weed by hand, grow food in groups (3 sisters), etc. It is a much harder way to farm, but also has many, many more tangible benefits.

I have been through divorce twice and can state with honesty that they were the two hardest things to deal with in my life. I had no idea it was possible to hurt that deeply and not die. Other people who have experienced that can attest to that statement as well. Kids or no kids, it would seem as if divorce was like sawing a board in two, but really it is like breaking a piece of plywood; jagged edges everywhere and a real mess that cannot be put back together cleanly.

I will not state that your issues are small beause that is perspective. For some people things I have dealt with are minor, where as for others they would have been debilitating as well. Just because an issue might not be a big deal to me, I do know it can be a huge deal to other people. I respect that difference of perspective.

To me, when there is tension between two people (or two parties) it stems from wanting control. It is almost as if the inheritence is generating fear instead of the financial security it should bring. That is unfortunate, and I hope you and your wife can have a heart to heart conversation about this so that your marriage will remain. Most of the time, between two people, a lack of communication is all that is missing.
 
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OK so I totally get what your saying here op but the fact that 'she only uses a few cans of greens beans which is annoying'.... Red flag.

You are the one who wants to grow this food and you can use it. It isn't her responsibility to feed you just because you grew the food. If she hasn't agreed to this she doesn't have that responsibility. She works more hours than you and yes you make more per hour than her but your work will never be as reliable as a regular job with an hourly wage. And monetary value alone is not the only reward of a job. Maybe your wife pours herself into her work to gain a sense of self worth because you don't value her as a 'useful' partner and she may feel undervalued as a married woman without children. Society places strange value on motherhood (but opposite if you're young or unmarried!?)

You two made vows to honor cherish love and respect each other. No vows were made about how many seeds each would sow or who would cook how many cans of green beans.  You are at least equally at fault in this situation for a lack of communication.

You say it would be useful if a partner could use herbs etc to back up your skills but what's stopping you doing all the things yo want yourself?  If you don't have the time now to do it on your own then you won't be able to do it at all if you spilt and tried to live out your dream on your own. I think you need to manage your expectations. Even if you got another wife who did all those things she could get sick, give birth, die, leave you, run off with a cult etc so there are no garuntees you wouldn't have to be self reliable anyway at some point or for some time. You can also try to build cominuty and trade for these skills you can pay money to herbalists for example. You can monetarily value the skills you don't have.
It is no one's responsibility to play out your dreams for or with you.

Look at the wheaton eco scale and remember that you seem crazy to people below you on that scale.

If you want a partner to play little house in the woods with you and be a homestead wife then I dare say you'd better be up front honest and clear with your wife now. And do not be resentful if she choses her own thing over doing your thing... It sounds like you don't enjoy or value her company anyway? Could this be part of the problem?



Too Long Didn't Read the above post:
Sounds like your wife doesn't feel valued by you because you value traditonal skills she does have. You feel repulsed my your wife's standard American lifestyle.        You need better communication to see if either or both of you will change your values. Remember that no one else is responsible for your dreams.
 
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A lot of good arguments here and it makes for a fascinating read. It would be interesting to get your wife’s perspective and because so many replies have been thoughtful and helpful, to me at least. It’s hard not to paint yourself as the hero in this relationship. I am rooting for you because you are making good points. I would feel the same way in your situation. But other people have also noted that you appear to resent this woman, scorn her decisions, needs and desires as inferior to your own. I thought for sure that you were merely seeking a permission slip to leave this sad, unhappy, needy woman that wronged you. But how quickly you leapt to her defence when it was suggested you simply leave. When was the last time you spent a few weeks apart from this wife of yours to gain some perspective? A few weeks away and things will become much clearer. Go to Arkansas, patch things up with your old friend and come clean with him. Ask him if you can spend some time away from her so that you can identify whether you want in or out of this marriage. I am sure he will understand. Request that he keep his low opinion of her to himself and just act as a sounding board if need be. I am trying not to be judgemental and be helpful because you both deserve happiness. Maybe find a men only relationship counselling retreat where you might spend a week or three days focusing on what you can do to make a positive out of what appears a challenging time in your life. Good luck to you and thank you for your bravery in opening up what is an intimate and personal examination of your life.
 
pollinator
Posts: 484
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This whole thread makes me sad. I hate to say.

My wife and I were together for 3 years, then got married (i.e. yeah we were living in sin). I was a poor partner, and she responded with being a poor partner, and around it went. Humans are stupid and proud. We contemplated divorce, we had no children and no assets. Ultimately we went through counselling. This is not a weakness, it is a necessity, only a fool is his own attorney or his own counselor.

Eventually, through grace I stopped being an ass-hat. She stopped being a nag. We both became less, so we as a team could become something. It has been an amazing and fulfilling ten years. We have moved four times and have been insolvent twice. She is my best friend and I am her rock. This is marriage. We are more than we were as individuals, and we were both accomplished as individuals, but "incompatible" as a team.

This led me into a deep introspection and eventually to despair, and rebirth as less than my former self. I am many things, but they are all subservient to my family and my God over the last decade. This is the continuous act of humility. This is a step of recovery. This is real life. It makes me bulletproof, because I will die and rot, and the only thing left will be my legacy, which is a subset of my community and my service to it. Marriage is like that, it is the foundation of everything good in my life. I hope you find it.

If your marriage is irreparably broken, then that is a tragedy. Your vows are dust, and your word is void. This is a major blow to your individuality, even as it seems like you are regaining it. If you do separate, use it to become less. There is no human who can make you more. Divorce is a horrible schism in trust, and I hope you don't have to go through it. Most are due to financial issues and your situation seems so. At the end money is just a thing, like any other thing. Don't pretend control = money. Communication is the art of talking with each other not past each other.

If you had asked me ten year ago if I thought my wife and I had anything in common, I would have had some nasty term for her (in private) and said we did not. She grew up in a city, and became infatuated with me because I was opposite. She is now a generous contributor to our little homestead. Don't. Ever. Underestimate. Women! They have a capacity to change their bodies to allow new life, and they have a capacity to embrace other changes that frankly is astounding. She knows more about things I grew up with than I know.

Fight for your team if there is anything worth fighting for. Learn to change. Become "we" not 'I" if there is any chance.
 
pollinator
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The wife sounds very depressed, self destructive, and taking it out on husband.  She won't take care of her health, is apparently controlling, and self-centered.  She needs to fix personal problems that probably preceded and have nothing to do with husband ... doubt anyone else can do it for her.  Good counseling might surface this for her to address, with or without husband.  That's all from one husband's perspective, however.  Btw,  I believe many a therapist has stated that 'in love/infatuation' is actually a form of mental illness... 'seeing what you want to see'... and reality will inevitably have to be dealt with.
 
Posts: 66
Location: Columbia Missouri
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     I have some thoughts about relationships from an evolutionary perspective.  I have heard it suggested that a relationship is transactional in nature.  The hunter gatherer man can kill more dinosaurs than he needs to feed himself.  He trades this surplus to woman, who can provide the children that he can't.  Those hunter gatherer archetypes are still alive and well somewhere deep down in our psyche.  The woman if she is going to take on the task of raising the mans offspring to adulthood she wants a long-term commitment.  The man wants access to the woman (we all know where babies come from).

    In your own case,  you said your ideal situation would be to work one week a month to cover expenses the farm would not provide.  I did the math on that it comes out to about $12k a year.  Not a lot of money for smeone that wants an urban lifestyle.  You said you wife is unwilling to take care of herself enough to bear children.  Also, she is talking openly about divorce.  As for the last item, that's  none of my business.   My point is nobody seems willing to bring to the relationship what the other wants or even what they themselves should expect.  It looks to me like both of you have already given up on this and are only trying to avoid the pain of divorce.  As an earlier post pointed out divorce is one of the most painful things in life.  It seems to me you need to decide whether to invest that pain to make the life you want a reality.

    On the subject of land and farming...  I grew up in Cedar Rapids IA and currently live in Columbia MO.  What passes for a green thumb in Iowa and what it takes to eak out a crop in Missouri are vastly different.  That inheritance might buy more acres in Missouri.  But, it won't  be any more productive the land it would buy in Iowa.
 
Terri Matthews
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Location: Eastern Kansas
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J Anders wrote:
I've never quite figured out what she wants out of our marriage. She constantly talks about having kids but won't make the necessary changes to her diet and lifestyle to have children. Having constant blood sugar 250-300 does nothing for your child bearing ability (normal is 120) and she doesn't have health insurance or take medication for it. I've encouraged her to purchase christian health sharing insurance, $85/month with $1000 deductible but that's not on her list of priorities. I personally have insurance but I don't use it for anything but hearing aids.

I take glucophage for my high blood sugar. It costs me $8 a month, and I feel VERY much better! I am no longer sleepy during the day, I can sleep through the night without having to get up and use the bathroom, and I just feel more alert and energetic.

True, I also watch my diet. But, there are worse things than having scrambled eggs for breakfast. I do SOMETIMES cheat on my diet, but I always feel cruddy afterwards, so I do usually avoid the high blood sugar. Feeling healthy and good is addicting, so outside of the odd "treat" I do watch my diet.

At any rate, I think that if your wife would take pills she would find that she enjoys life more, and flat out feels better every single day. Personally, I have found that if I eat a carbohydrate free dinner such as meat and a salad, that I can tolerate a small dessert afterwards. So I can have my cake and eat it too .... as long as I plan the meal to have my carbs in the form of a SMALL dessert instead of in the form of baked potatos. I can have either, but not both in the same meal.
 
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