• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies living kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education experiences global resources the cider press projects digital market permies.com all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nicole Alderman
  • raven ranson
  • Jocelyn Campbell
  • Julia Winter
stewards:
  • paul wheaton
  • Burra Maluca
  • Devaka Cooray
garden masters:
  • Anne Miller
  • Pearl Sutton
  • Joylynn Hardesty
  • Shawn Klassen-Koop
gardeners:
  • Joseph Lofthouse
  • Bill Crim
  • Mike Jay

What to do? Different goals than the spouse  RSS feed

 
Posts: 171
4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Judith Browning wrote:
Sometimes people aren't made for each other, sometimes they marry for the wrong reasons and sometimes they grow apart.
Why continue if both of you are suffering?  I suppose you could try counseling, maybe it would help but I'm not hearing any 'I love this person and can't live without them' thoughts that would be a basis for marriage counseling.

Take this with a grain of salt from someone who lived with her guy for five years first and has been married for another 43yrs.
We have had some (very) rough patches but actually having love and respect for each other got us through them...growing old together is lovely.



Divorce would be a royal pain in the ass and I'm not in the mood to deal with it. I'm just tired of hearing that she wants one all the time but every time she says she wants a divorce she's over her attitude in ten minutes or less.

Terri Matthews wrote:
You loved her once: what in the world happened?

It sounds like both of you are trying to change the other, and that never ends well! People are what they are. "Radical acceptance" is accepting what you cannot change. Your wife will probably never want to help you in the garden

And, where I live winter will come in perhaps 2 months time and I do not like that, but because I accept it I can plan for it. Next Saturday I will be buying Fall vegetables to be planted into the new bed I am putting up, and I will harvest and freeze them before winter. IF I HAD NOT ACCEPTED the fact that winter was coming I would have planted seeds and ended up with nothing to show for it. Because I accept what I cannot change I lead a better life

By the same token, your wife is who she is. Accept it and plan for it, so that you lead a rich and fulfilling life.



Good points.

You loved her once: what in the world happened?

I still love her. Just get real tired of fighting and hearing she wants a divorce.

I haven't been on here in 3 days because my wife has been off since Wed. She's back to work today. I said forget it yesterday if my wife doesn't want to go for walks then I will go for walks by myself. I like to get up early once in awhile and go for a walk at dawn. It's so pretty that time of day. She likes to sleep til 9-10. Well... like you and others said here.... it's not my problem what she does... if I want something then I best go do it myself whether she wants to join or not. So anyway, I took the dog for a walk yesterday morning at dawn. It was wonderful. Of course she griped about it when I got home but what ever.

Bethany Dutch wrote:
I think the thing is sometimes we aren’t able to truly see the person until later on


I would agree with that. I wasn't even told about 100k in student loan debt that she had until months after we got married. It was mentioned that she had student debt but no one would ever tell me the amount. That's always been a bit of a source of friction. And she has never had a job that paid well enough to think about being able to pay it back. Would I have married her if I knew about the debt? That's a very good question. It is just student loan debt... otherwise she had a phone bill and a couple other things to take care of that we took care of years ago. She's still mad at me because I paid off some of my bills with the money we got at the wedding. Guess it goes both ways.

Cristo Balete wrote: Check the state laws where you live, because it might be the case that if you inherit money, it's all yours, even if you are married, if you don't put it in a joint account.  Put it in a new account under your name only, and only you can touch it, if that's the way it works in your state.

Now, if that causes major issues, then maybe those are the issues that need dealing with.

If you don't have the same goals as you age, then you will have to rethink the whole situation.  And if you buy the property of your dreams and split up, you'll have to buy out her half, or give up half of something to buy out her half.

Changing a lifestyle to something very rural, even 30 minutes remote from what a partner is used to, could very easily cause issues, because it's an hour round trip.  If every trip out and back to that property is a 60-minute trip or a 60-mile round trip, it takes its toll on time, vehicles, gas, patience, comfort, safety, and most importantly, partnership.   And what silently builds is resentment, anger, and frustration.



It is all mine. It's NOT going into a joint account nor is it in a bank that she even has an account at because of the student loan issues.

I agree on the issues. Of course that's also leverage as we've never had enough money for her to even consider leaving. If the money is there I can tell her I'll gladly pay for her to move out if that's what she wants so bad. Then maybe she'll reconsider talking like that all the time and the whole problem will be solved.

She's already changed her life style quite a bit from city life on the bus line to living in the small towns that I grew up in... so ultimately the next logical step would be going to the city (60 miles one way) only once a month instead of every payday (2 weeks). I already see she's getting to the point where we may likely start doing that. Yesterday was payday and she was quite annoyed that there was only $200 left after paying a couple bills and doing a bit of shopping. What is ironic is that I told her we need to open a savings account at the bank and she said we don't need to open a savings account... we just need to leave the money in the checking account. I think it's easier not to touch the money in a separate account than to leave it in the checking.

Travis Johnson wrote:

My problem with that line of thinking is, it is the easy way out.

In my experience, when faced with an easy path, or faced with a harder one; going with the more difficult path is usually the best course of action. This is no different than farming where tractors till, seed, fertilize with urea, spray round-up and harvest...easy, versus that of organic farming where people have to mix compost, weed by hand, grow food in groups (3 sisters), etc. It is a much harder way to farm, but also has many, many more tangible benefits.

I have been through divorce twice and can state with honesty that they were the two hardest things to deal with in my life. I had no idea it was possible to hurt that deeply and not die. Other people who have experienced that can attest to that statement as well. Kids or no kids, it would seem as if divorce was like sawing a board in two, but really it is like breaking a piece of plywood; jagged edges everywhere and a real mess that cannot be put back together cleanly.

I will not state that your issues are small beause that is perspective. For some people things I have dealt with are minor, where as for others they would have been debilitating as well. Just because an issue might not be a big deal to me, I do know it can be a huge deal to other people. I respect that difference of perspective.

To me, when there is tension between two people (or two parties) it stems from wanting control. It is almost as if the inheritence is generating fear instead of the financial security it should bring. That is unfortunate, and I hope you and your wife can have a heart to heart conversation about this so that your marriage will remain. Most of the time, between two people, a lack of communication is all that is missing.



The easy path/harder path is a good way to put it, and an anology that I can relate to due to helping on farms and then coming home and dealing with my garden!

Thank you for the anology of breaking a piece of plywood. I'm not terribly interested in doing that, that's for sure. I had a gal friend for awhile from the same small town that I was in and even though we both knew that it'd never work out, it was still quite hard when she left to go to the big city and get a boyfriend there. I certanily don't miss her at all and will likely never see her or contact her again.

Regarding a lack of communication... I would agree on that.

natasha todd wrote:If you don't have the time now to do it on your own then you won't be able to do it at all if you spilt and tried to live out your dream on your own. I think you need to manage your expectations.

Look at the wheaton eco scale and remember that you seem crazy to people below you on that scale.

It sounds like you don't enjoy or value her company

  You need better communication to see if either or both of you will change your values.


 
  Good point. Like I said earlier in this post... that's why I went for a walk yesterday morning. And I do sound like an ass for saying that about green beans.
 
  I do appreciate you mentioning the wheaton eco scale. Went and took a look at that and I can see why my wife would think I'm nuts.... I'd like to be a couple levels further along than she is at the moment.
 
  I do throughly enjoy her company. I don't enjoy being told about a divorce for every damn thing that makes her mad though.
 
  I do agree on the communication bit.
 
 

Cameron Whyte wrote: A lot of good arguments here and it makes for a fascinating read. It would be interesting to get your wife’s perspective and because so many replies have been thoughtful and helpful, to me at least. It’s hard not to paint yourself as the hero in this relationship. I am rooting for you because you are making good points. I would feel the same way in your situation. But other people have also noted that you appear to resent this woman, scorn her decisions, needs and desires as inferior to your own.


 
  I don't personally feel like I resent this woman or scorn her decisions as inferior to my own. I just needed perspective which I have gotten in spades in this thread. Some people tell me that I should go to a marriage counselor. Why the h*** would I go to a marriage counselor with one perspective on life? I'm... and in some ways, both of us, would like to have a small farm someday. Where else to go for advice than somewhere where the people that frequent the forum would hopefully have their own small farms or working towards getting them themselves? I prefer advice from people who have been married for 20-50 years rather than advice from liberal ass marriage counselors. I know of one family, my childhood best friend, where the mother went and found a marriage counselor who told her to get a divorce when the kids were about 13-15 years old, and she did. My friend was never the same after that. Ironically, the parents are now very good friends and she helps her former husband out a lot from what I understand after she got her head on straight again. Do I need that kind of a marriage counselor or just PERSPECTIVE?


  I thought for sure that you were merely seeking a permission slip to leave this sad, unhappy, needy woman that wronged you. But how quickly you leapt to her defence when it was suggested you simply leave. When was the last time you spent a few weeks apart from this wife of yours to gain some perspective? A few weeks away and things will become much clearer. Go to Arkansas, patch things up with your old friend and come clean with him. Ask him if you can spend some time away from her so that you can identify whether you want in or out of this marriage. I am sure he will understand. Request that he keep his low opinion of her to himself and just act as a sounding board if need be. I am trying not to be judgemental and be helpful because you both deserve happiness. Maybe find a men only relationship counselling retreat where you might spend a week or three days focusing on what you can do to make a positive out of what appears a challenging time in your life. Good luck to you and thank you for your bravery in opening up what is an intimate and personal examination of your life.



I've thought about some variation of all of that. The interesting thing is that we haven't slept apart in years and if I stay up late because she got mad about some dumb thing right before she went to bed she can never sleep until I come to bed. For what it's worth.

Tj Jefferson wrote:
My wife and I were together for 3 years, then got married (i.e. yeah we were living in sin). I was a poor partner, and she responded with being a poor partner, and around it went. Humans are stupid and proud. We contemplated divorce, we had no children and no assets. Ultimately we went through counselling. This is not a weakness, it is a necessity, only a fool is his own attorney or his own counselor.

Eventually, through grace I stopped being an ass-hat. She stopped being a nag. We both became less, so we as a team could become something. It has been an amazing and fulfilling ten years. We have moved four times and have been insolvent twice. She is my best friend and I am her rock. This is marriage. We are more than we were as individuals, and we were both accomplished as individuals, but "incompatible" as a team.



I will freely admit that I can be an ass. At times I pick on her enough to piss her off enough to hurt me which is clearly my own fault. But is it really necessary to use the D word every time you get pissed? I've asked her why she says she wants one when clearly her actions say she doesn't. Never got a good answer.

Of course only a fool is his own attorney or counselor... that's why I'm here. I need perspective and "dream management" of which I've found in spades. As I mentioned in my first couple of posts.... I actually really like Iowa... just would like a bit more land to garden on. A city lot in my town shouldn't cost all that much and I could probably find a small piece a mile or two out of town cheap as well.

As to the rest of your post, I didn't quote it here, but I did find it very enlightening. I really do appreciate your perspective.

Nancy Sutton wrote: The wife sounds very depressed, self destructive, and taking it out on husband.  She won't take care of her health, is apparently controlling, and self-centered.  She needs to fix personal problems that probably preceded and have nothing to do with husband ... doubt anyone else can do it for her.  Good counseling might surface this for her to address, with or without husband.  That's all from one husband's perspective, however.  Btw,  I believe many a therapist has stated that 'in love/infatuation' is actually a form of mental illness... 'seeing what you want to see'... and reality will inevitably have to be dealt with.



I will agree that she's not taking care of her health as well as I think she could be. But that's her problem... not mine. I was about 200 when we got married. Now I'm 245-250. Need to work on myself as well. Of course it'd be nice if she'd stop thinking that every time I ask her to go for a walk I'm calling her fat and automatically says no it's (hot cold buggy what ever). When we got married she was 300, now she's 225. A few years ago we were taking 2 mile walks every day for about 6 months while she was working as a CNA in a nursing home and that's when she lost a good 50lbs within a couple of years.

And that is why I'm here.... "reality will inevitably have to be dealt with". I'm learning to manage my perspective.

Alex Riddles wrote: On the subject of land and farming...  I grew up in Cedar Rapids IA and currently live in Columbia MO.  What passes for a green thumb in Iowa and what it takes to eak out a crop in Missouri are vastly different.  That inheritance might buy more acres in Missouri.  But, it won't  be any more productive the land it would buy in Iowa.


Thank you for the rest of your comments. On what I've quoted- And I need to decide if it's more important to have the lower taxes, along with the possibility of buying a piece of property that is still reasonably good for farming- while not having to worry about overspray from dicambia or what else they're using these days.

If you're paying attention to the news, Monsato just got slammed with a 289 million judgement for Roundup so if that goes to the Supreme Court and they uphold it Monsato won't be in the USA much longer. Then I just as well stay in Iowa and wait a couple years for everyone to go organic, which will drop the price of land drastically as well as create some real opportunities here.


J Anders wrote:



Thank you to everyone who has commented in this thread. I appreciate all of your perspectives and it is very helpful. Being very hard of hearing it's not like I've ever overheard anyone talking about their marriage or heard anyone talking in church about marriage growing up. My mom left my dad when I was 4.5 because he was mentally ill and had a lot of his own problems so not like I have much experience watching married people. I do have grandparents who are still living and have been married over 65 years now so it's nice to have that FWIW.

It takes brainpower to listen to people as I have to be looking at their face and lipreading.  I'd much rather read something than listen to anything. I visited a organic farmer who had a deaf wife for a few days and he did tell me that he knows several pastors that refuse to marry deaf/hearing people and I have heard of several deaf/hearing couples that are no longer together. From experience I know that it's down to communication which is really difficult at times. Knowing what I know now about the whole dynamic I certainly wouldn't recommend very hard of hearing/hearing people get married that's for sure.
 
pollinator
Posts: 248
Location: North Carolina, USA Zone 7b
36
books chicken food preservation forest garden homestead wood heat woodworking
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

It sounds like you're just two people "shacking up" as we used to say in the 70's, lol    Traditionally marriage was necessary for procreation and survival.   Whatever one's moral beliefs are, sticking with a marriage that is NOT built on working together to achieve common goals is a prescription for disappointment and failure.

I believe that a goal requires a clear description and a COMMITMENT to achieving it through perseverance and perhaps sacrifice of short term pleasures, otherwise it's just a fantasy.

I believe that a goal without a STRATEGY will never be achieved

I believe that waiting for a financial windfall or depending on others (spouse, disability)  to achieve one's dreams is just wishful thinking, not a sound planning strategy that you have any control over.


I wonder if your wife is your "problem" or if it's your own lack of clarity and confidence, due to your hearing loss and perhaps even going further back.  Discouragement can lead to passivity and apathy, perhaps settling into depending on others to make your life right.   I wonder if disability payments and the prospect of an inheritance allows you to be passive about GOING for it!  Double dipping for disability requires you to run your business at a loss?  Is staying married to a working woman another strategy to maintain your income or because you love her or feel a moral responsibility to stay there?  As others have recommended - sit down with her and lay it all out.   If goals and strategies can't be articulated and written down then what is the point of staying married?   As others have recommended - sit down with her and lay it all out.   If goals and strategies can't be articulated and written down then what is the point of staying married?

I've been there off and on and pretty much settled on being a hermit on my dinky homestead for retirement.    Then I discovered how tedious that can be and realized I just gave up on life out of frustration over several of my character defects and advancing age.  But I've pulled myself out of that by studying people I admire and modeling them.   Whenever I get bogged down in negative thoughts about my own abilities, pointing figures at others as the reasons why I can't get where I want to be, I  just think about all the other people in the world who manage to be content and successful in their own way even with limitations.   And I've come to believe that I deserve better than what I've dished out for myself.   I use that as inspiration and simply grind it out with extreme self-discipline.   I've read a lot of self-help books and watched countless inspirational speakers on Youtube for strategic ways to take charge of my life just by changing the way I think.  Engage in the power of redirecting thoughts to the positive side and take ACTION rather than brooding.   Sometimes when I catch myself whining about someone or something, I catch myself and redirect by saying "don't think about that - what's the most important productive thing I can be doing right now?  and then I get busy accomplishing something - even if it's just going out and weeding for an hour to distract myself. 

Everything is figureoutable with the right commitment and discipline.     Maybe just writing a journal everyday will help clarify your thoughts.   Writing this post is a good first step and hopefully will open some doors of ideas :)

 
J Anders
Posts: 171
4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Susan Pruitt wrote:
It sounds like you're just two people "shacking up" as we used to say in the 70's, lol    Traditionally marriage was necessary for procreation and survival.   Whatever one's moral beliefs are, sticking with a marriage that is NOT built on working together to achieve common goals is a prescription for disappointment and failure.



Pretty much exactly this.... "sticking with a marriage that is NOT built on working together to achieve common goals" what I'm getting really tired of.

I believe that a goal requires a clear description and a COMMITMENT to achieving it through perseverance and perhaps sacrifice of short term pleasures, otherwise it's just a fantasy.


That's what I'd hope we could do. We'd both like to get this house remodeled but that's not happening with city trips and $50 meals at olive garden.

I believe that a goal without a STRATEGY will never be achieved


Well put. She's been avoiding the student loans and has not been doing any planning or even thought about the loans for many years. Graduated 10+ yrs ago.

I believe that waiting for a financial windfall or depending on others (spouse, disability)  to achieve one's dreams is just wishful thinking, not a sound planning strategy that you have any control over.


And you would be right that it's not a sound planning strategy.


I wonder if your wife is your "problem" or if it's your own lack of clarity and confidence, due to your hearing loss and perhaps even going further back.  Discouragement can lead to passivity and apathy, perhaps settling into depending on others to make your life right.   I wonder if disability payments and the prospect of an inheritance allows you to be passive about GOING for it!  Double dipping for disability requires you to run your business at a loss?  Is staying married to a working woman another strategy to maintain your income or because you love her or feel a moral responsibility to stay there?  As others have recommended - sit down with her and lay it all out.   If goals and strategies can't be articulated and written down then what is the point of staying married?   As others have recommended - sit down with her and lay it all out.   If goals and strategies can't be articulated and written down then what is the point of staying married?


And the fact that my mother has her own mental issues so I've stayed in the area for her benefit.

Obviously it hasn't worked out all that well financially other than I sold the 3br house that my mother paid for that I was living in and moved to another town 30 miles away and bought this house. Housing is all paid off, taxes here are a third of what they were there. There are jobs available here that weren't available at the last place but nothing that pays all that well. As I've mentioned... I am not married to her for the money. I could care less about the money. It's nice but not needed.

I do agree on goals and strategies. Part of what we've been fighting over. I've mentioned to her that we should just take $200 out of her $700 check as well as my disability and pay ourselves first BEFORE going to the city or anything else. What she always seems to hear is: You're gonna put a crimp on how much money I can spend in the city and I hate watching how much money I spend." Just this month I got a job that I did a bid for so ended up spending some of my money on trips to the city picking up materials etc, ended up being about $200 altogether and then the rest of my money was gone before the bills got paid. She said no problem I can pay the bills. Well of course only 2 bills got paid so when I get paid from this job I'll pay the rest of the bills with that check. And then of course we don't keep records to see where money is going. I'd love to keep a record and figure out where all the money is going but that's too hard for her to do apparently. My mom is appalled that we go through $2-3K a month. She only has $500 a month of her own money but she doesn't pay any of her own utilities. My dad is gone and she remarried about 15 yrs ago.

I've been there off and on and pretty much settled on being a hermit on my dinky homestead for retirement.    Then I discovered how tedious that can be and realized I just gave up on life out of frustration over several of my character defects and advancing age.  But I've pulled myself out of that by studying people I admire and modeling them.   Whenever I get bogged down in negative thoughts about my own abilities, pointing figures at others as the reasons why I can't get where I want to be, I  just think about all the other people in the world who manage to be content and successful in their own way even with limitations.   And I've come to believe that I deserve better than what I've dished out for myself.   I use that as inspiration and simply grind it out with extreme self-discipline.   I've read a lot of self-help books and watched countless inspirational speakers on Youtube for strategic ways to take charge of my life just by changing the way I think.  Engage in the power of redirecting thoughts to the positive side and take ACTION rather than brooding.   Sometimes when I catch myself whining about someone or something, I catch myself and redirect by saying "don't think about that - what's the most important productive thing I can be doing right now?  and then I get busy accomplishing something - even if it's just going out and weeding for an hour to distract myself. 



Thank you for your perspective. I'm personally content. Always have been. One of my favorite poems is the one by Solzenar.... keep it posted by my computer.

My House is Small

My house is small

because my desires are too

My meals are simple

because my tastes are few.

My life is quiet

because I have everything I need.

My heart is still

because I am where I want to be

This land is beautiful

I need be nowhere else

I have books and movies and music

and they all go well with a hot cup of tea,

a slice of toast

and a warm fire.

I can see the morning sun through my window

and at evening time the stars dance

across the sky.

My lady sits next to me

reading her book

and taking notes.

She looks to me like a piece of Heaven-

So beautiful and happy

And I am grateful that my house is small

It makes us sit closer together.

           Solenzar

what's the most important productive thing I can be doing right now?

Procrastination is the enemy, that's for sure!

Everything is figureoutable with the right commitment and discipline.     Maybe just writing a journal everyday will help clarify your thoughts.   Writing this post is a good first step and hopefully will open some doors of ideas :)



That's a good suggestion. I've done that in the past but haven't kept up with it.
 
Posts: 86
Location: Virginia
9
books chicken cooking
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
You mentioned your mom being appalled by how much is spent within your marriage.  Think about why she even knows or is involved with your marital finances. 

When first married, we made numerous financial bad decisions on both sides.  My mother in law was inserting herself into our business and that definately made it hard for us to be a team together.  I felt like I was left out and that it was me against them.  Been married 27 years now.  One of our best rules has been not to discuss our money issues with others. 

If I misread your comment, I apologize.  Have been on that side of the issue, so it kinda jumpd out at me.  Could just be too twitchy about it🙄
 
J Anders
Posts: 171
4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Tina Hillel wrote:You mentioned your mom being appalled by how much is spent within your marriage.  Think about why she even knows or is involved with your marital finances. 

When first married, we made numerous financial bad decisions on both sides.  My mother in law was inserting herself into our business and that definately made it hard for us to be a team together.  I felt like I was left out and that it was me against them.  Been married 27 years now.  One of our best rules has been not to discuss our money issues with others. 

If I misread your comment, I apologize.  Have been on that side of the issue, so it kinda jumpd out at me.  Could just be too twitchy about it🙄



No, you didn't misread. My mom just has an idea of how much we make from basic math and asks once in awhile how much we're saving. Never talks to my wife about it... none of my wife's business. Not pushy or anything like that. I know where she's coming from and I'd like to save myself. My mother saves $100 every month and has saved a good number over the years. I admire her discipline.  Once in awhile as in maybe a couple times a year.
 
Posts: 60
Location: Durham, NC
homestead urban woodworking
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Stacy Witscher wrote:Rob Lineberger - why would it be a long year? There isn't much difference between being separated and being divorced. Here in California, the only real difference between a legal separation and a divorce is with regards to remarriage. My ex and I were legally separated for about 5-6 years prior to us filing for divorce. In fact, the paperwork is identical, it's just a box to check for separation or divorce.



Hey Stacy, sorry I missed this.  She put in clauses about "introduction of romantic interests" and other stuff that, by the end of the year I was just dancing around trying to see my girlfriend and my kids without either of them crossing paths.  I filed for divorce within 6 hours of that 1 year mark. Ahhh....
 
Rob Lineberger
Posts: 60
Location: Durham, NC
homestead urban woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Bethany Dutch wrote:I’ll never put marriage on such a a pedestal again to the point of sacrificing my own mental health to continue in it.



^^^ this!
 
Posts: 134
Location: SW Ohio
17
chicken duck fish forest garden fungi cooking tiny house trees
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
J, you wrote in another thread:

Sarah- For the record I'm not single... but I was just wondering how have you stayed on the permaculture path? I can see why men gravitate to the permaculture path just because our culture has really made it an issue for white men to have "company work" so it is forcing them to reassess everything that they've ever known. However, for women, the future is (supposedly) bright and rosy and they have no problems getting college educated and finding a job. The programming is strong for women, that's for certain.

For myself... I'm both a white man AND I am hard of hearing. Which... might be the perfect combination. I grew up with no television in the house and my mom always listened to the radio which I couldn't understand anyway. Then when I was a teenager I got a computer and have been seeking truth ever since. I saw the shit hitting the fan around the time that I graduated high school and swore to never set myself up for failure on the part of others. To that end... I now live in a one bedroom house, repair all my own vehicles, have a large lot/garden that has something edible everywhere, and work as little as I need to. Of course... my wife works full time and likes to spend her money on treats trinkets and trips. I pay all the bills around here and take care of the household chores. I have attended a local community college for 3 years and do have a technical studies degree but they didn't like me much because I challenged all of their belief systems. The worst class was psychology! Oh what hookum.



From my experience, A) there are more women interested in and involved with permaculture than there are men, and B) it is AT LEAST as difficult for women to find adequate employment as men, in my area. I have a harder time finding a job because most jobs available preferentially hire men, because they're taller and stronger and can do the work more efficiently. Most jobs available here are construction, truck driving, loading/unloading heavy stuff, roofing etc. so I've been seasonally employed in clothing warehouses and fast food.
I think I graduated college about the same time you graduated highschool, in 2008 right after tons of people lost their jobs. I couldn't even get a menial job because I was "overqualified." So just to be clear I have been turned down for many jobs simply because I have a college degree and am not a man. I think you're applying your personal situation as a rule of thumb when it is in fact the exception.
I struggle with severe depression and feelings of hopelessness, have never been able to get my own place, have been homeless, worked without pay, and at times kept in a room or apartment against my will. I do not agree with your assertion that for women in particular the future is rosy and bright. To me the future is a lot of work and a lot of tough decisions and overcoming obstacles. I think that you need to come to terms with your feelings on your own. No one else is responsible for them, not even your spouse. Don't force yourself and become resentful.

"How I have stayed on the permaculture path"...
It's never been a challenge for me, I've always struggled with the "standard" path of work for a comp'ny, pay bills and buy stuff, whilst imposing your will on nature. I played in mud holes as a little girl, built "houses" for toads which oddly look almost exactly like Sepp's animal shelters in miniature (my brother stood on them to squish them, so I learned to build them to withstand) and brought my mother bundles of "weeds" (wildflowers.) I spread seeds of "weeds" I liked and climbed trees. To me, the permaculture path is not a deviation. It is just being me, except being smart about it. That being said-- my food forest is scrawny and unproductive, I've never started a garden since I learned tilling washes away the topsoil, my last compost bin was full of giant maggots that turned into giant biting flies and I haven't stayed in one place long enough to raise any animals I can't get to market weight in five months. For me the struggle was coming to terms with the fact that the lifestyle I tried SO HARD to conform to that it had me writhing in spiritual agony, the "standard american" lifestlye, is indeed NOT for me. That what I dream of and desire is not only valid, but good. That being said, it's never a good idea to try to force your convictions and ideals on someone-- even if you really really like them and think they're sexy--- because it's going to blow up in your face when they want to hold fast to their own comfort instead, which is, by the way, their right. When you try to impose it on someone--- even something as awesome as permaculture-- you're really telling the other person that their feelings don't matter and aren't valid, and it's gonna piss them off and hurt their feelings and stuff.

Anyway I had a hard time figuring out what you're asking for, and I probably didn't hit the mark, but that's the best I can do.
 
J Anders
Posts: 171
4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Sarah Koster wrote:J, you wrote in another thread:

Sarah- For the record I'm not single... but I was just wondering how have you stayed on the permaculture path? I can see why men gravitate to the permaculture path just because our culture has really made it an issue for white men to have "company work" so it is forcing them to reassess everything that they've ever known. However, for women, the future is (supposedly) bright and rosy and they have no problems getting college educated and finding a job. The programming is strong for women, that's for certain.

For myself... I'm both a white man AND I am hard of hearing. Which... might be the perfect combination. I grew up with no television in the house and my mom always listened to the radio which I couldn't understand anyway. Then when I was a teenager I got a computer and have been seeking truth ever since. I saw the shit hitting the fan around the time that I graduated high school and swore to never set myself up for failure on the part of others. To that end... I now live in a one bedroom house, repair all my own vehicles, have a large lot/garden that has something edible everywhere, and work as little as I need to. Of course... my wife works full time and likes to spend her money on treats trinkets and trips. I pay all the bills around here and take care of the household chores. I have attended a local community college for 3 years and do have a technical studies degree but they didn't like me much because I challenged all of their belief systems. The worst class was psychology! Oh what hookum.



From my experience, A) there are more women interested in and involved with permaculture than there are men, and B) it is AT LEAST as difficult for women to find adequate employment as men, in my area. I have a harder time finding a job because most jobs available preferentially hire men, because they're taller and stronger and can do the work more efficiently. Most jobs available here are construction, truck driving, loading/unloading heavy stuff, roofing etc. so I've been seasonally employed in clothing warehouses and fast food.
I think I graduated college about the same time you graduated highschool, in 2008 right after tons of people lost their jobs. I couldn't even get a menial job because I was "overqualified." So just to be clear I have been turned down for many jobs simply because I have a college degree and am not a man. I think you're applying your personal situation as a rule of thumb when it is in fact the exception.
I struggle with severe depression and feelings of hopelessness, have never been able to get my own place, have been homeless, worked without pay, and at times kept in a room or apartment against my will. I do not agree with your assertion that for women in particular the future is rosy and bright. To me the future is a lot of work and a lot of tough decisions and overcoming obstacles. I think that you need to come to terms with your feelings on your own. No one else is responsible for them, not even your spouse. Don't force yourself and become resentful.

"How I have stayed on the permaculture path"...
It's never been a challenge for me, I've always struggled with the "standard" path of work for a comp'ny, pay bills and buy stuff, whilst imposing your will on nature. I played in mud holes as a little girl, built "houses" for toads which oddly look almost exactly like Sepp's animal shelters in miniature (my brother stood on them to squish them, so I learned to build them to withstand) and brought my mother bundles of "weeds" (wildflowers.) I spread seeds of "weeds" I liked and climbed trees. To me, the permaculture path is not a deviation. It is just being me, except being smart about it. That being said-- my food forest is scrawny and unproductive, I've never started a garden since I learned tilling washes away the topsoil, my last compost bin was full of giant maggots that turned into giant biting flies and I haven't stayed in one place long enough to raise any animals I can't get to market weight in five months. For me the struggle was coming to terms with the fact that the lifestyle I tried SO HARD to conform to that it had me writhing in spiritual agony, the "standard american" lifestlye, is indeed NOT for me. That what I dream of and desire is not only valid, but good. That being said, it's never a good idea to try to force your convictions and ideals on someone-- even if you really really like them and think they're sexy--- because it's going to blow up in your face when they want to hold fast to their own comfort instead, which is, by the way, their right. When you try to impose it on someone--- even something as awesome as permaculture-- you're really telling the other person that their feelings don't matter and aren't valid, and it's gonna piss them off and hurt their feelings and stuff.

Anyway I had a hard time figuring out what you're asking for, and I probably didn't hit the mark, but that's the best I can do.



You answered my question perfectly. It also sounds like you're in a rather rural area like I am if the majority of the jobs are warehouses and fast food! I live in a small town, with a population well under 5,000. It's not terribly rosy here but it's not the worst place in the world to be either. I've heard stories about this kind of thing from my mother as she has been homeless and really struggled in her twenties.

I imagine that a city woman would have an entirely different perspective on things. What I wonder... is that many women grew up playing in nature... what drives some of them to abandon that and pursue toys trinkets and trips instead of spending time in nature and creation? I have a cousin who is a well paid medical professional that lives in downtown Chicago and she has the worst case of this that I've ever known. My grandfather, bless his heart, has made her multiple pieces of furniture for her several thousand dollars a month apartment. I can't even fathom spending several thousand dollars a month on housing when there are people living in mud huts for free in the tropics!

I graduated high school in 2002 and spent the first 4-5 years after that traveling the country working. I've worked in 5 different states for varying lengths of time. I remember regular trips growing up to a suburb of Denver to visit a relative there, and every time we would go back, we would see the suburbs several miles further out. At the time, I said, how in the world can this continue? They can't keep building up the suburbs like this. There are times that I would love to go do seasonal work but it's a lonely life.

Regarding a 'traditional' garden- you live right in the middle of the best David Bradley country on earth. I refuse to use a tiller except in extreme circumstances- the first time this year was for an invasion of crabgrass and quackgrass? and some other weeds around the perimeter of my garden that were well entrenched. I cut them all down with the weed eater and then tilled them all under.  I have a complete set of david bradley implements that I use in my garden and I plow it under once in awhile. I haven't plowed in a couple years now- main thing I use is the disc and harrow- with four wheel weights on 15" tires. There are so many David Bradleys for sale in Ohio that it's not even funny, even now, 50 years after they were last made.

The initial question wasn't driven by my personal situation. Just looking through the forums and seeing who is posting and who is active, I just noticed a number of gentlemen around our age that seem to be active here but not so many ladies. Lots of older ladies here though. 

I really hope you've had the opportunity to read the book Possum Living by Dolly Freed. It's an awesome book and I think it'll resonate with you. Another good book that I read many many years ago is "Work This Way" by Bruce Tulgan.
 
Sarah Koster
Posts: 134
Location: SW Ohio
17
chicken duck fish forest garden fungi cooking tiny house trees
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I actually grew up in the suburbs, and have spent most of my life living either in said suburb or in an urban environment. Also the majority of permies local to my area are either living in or active in an Eco-village which is very much urban. So I don't think city vs rural upbringing is the determining factor.

Lately I am mostly interested in non-fiction, instructional books, but if I get itchy to read some prose I'll definitely keep the possum book in mind. I'm assuming it's prose rather than instructional based on the name, forgive me if i'm wrong.
One thing I have realized is that most people, do not know their own heart. It is a mystery to them. They decide in their mind who they think they are, but in the living the truth comes out in what they do. We fool each other, but we fool ourselves more. When we look in the mirror we see only the masks of what our minds have made us out to be.
My female permie friends are mostly on the West Coast, even the ones who grew up here. This geographic area has an offensive charge towards women my age who have any imagination at all. And men my age for that matter, too. The ones I know who are happy here married early and dearly, have children and the means to comfortably support them. Those of us who weren't able to find love early on, or produce fruit of it, are basically squirming in a sewage pit of ennui and cognitive dissonance. The dreams we were spoon-fed as gospel truth as children is now regarded by mainstream society is now regarded as ridiculous fantasy. Our precious ideals and our zeal are now regarded as idiotic fairytales. What is there for those of our generation for whom tomorrow holds nothing? It is natural that some of us give in to the pressure, sell our hopes for convenience and tow the line that says "who we were born to be is an inconvenience, to be discarded"
For the barren, today can be used to make a better tomorrow, for somebody else's children. It's still worth it but it puts us face to face with the ugly truth that, we're a lot more selfish than we'd like to think. It feels hollow. As if somehow by having children, we'd be able to feel into the future to know whether it was good or not. As if by not having children, our existence, sentience, awareness will be cut short while that of others stretches onward into the ages yet to come. But why do we feel this way??? Is there any evidence that this is even true? But I think this is the emotion of all or most of people, who do not have children late in life.
 
J Anders
Posts: 171
4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Sarah Koster wrote:I actually grew up in the suburbs, and have spent most of my life living either in said suburb or in an urban environment. Also the majority of permies local to my area are either living in or active in an Eco-village which is very much urban. So I don't think city vs rural upbringing is the determining factor.

Lately I am mostly interested in non-fiction, instructional books, but if I get itchy to read some prose I'll definitely keep the possum book in mind. I'm assuming it's prose rather than instructional based on the name, forgive me if i'm wrong.
One thing I have realized is that most people, do not know their own heart. It is a mystery to them. They decide in their mind who they think they are, but in the living the truth comes out in what they do. We fool each other, but we fool ourselves more. When we look in the mirror we see only the masks of what our minds have made us out to be.
My female permie friends are mostly on the West Coast, even the ones who grew up here. This geographic area has an offensive charge towards women my age who have any imagination at all. And men my age for that matter, too. The ones I know who are happy here married early and dearly, have children and the means to comfortably support them. Those of us who weren't able to find love early on, or produce fruit of it, are basically squirming in a sewage pit of ennui and cognitive dissonance. The dreams we were spoon-fed as gospel truth as children is now regarded by mainstream society is now regarded as ridiculous fantasy. Our precious ideals and our zeal are now regarded as idiotic fairytales. What is there for those of our generation for whom tomorrow holds nothing? It is natural that some of us give in to the pressure, sell our hopes for convenience and tow the line that says "who we were born to be is an inconvenience, to be discarded"
For the barren, today can be used to make a better tomorrow, for somebody else's children. It's still worth it but it puts us face to face with the ugly truth that, we're a lot more selfish than we'd like to think. It feels hollow. As if somehow by having children, we'd be able to feel into the future to know whether it was good or not. As if by not having children, our existence, sentience, awareness will be cut short while that of others stretches onward into the ages yet to come. But why do we feel this way??? Is there any evidence that this is even true? But I think this is the emotion of all or most of people, who do not have children late in life.



Possum Living is very much a non-fiction book. I rarely read fiction for myself unless it's truth marketed as fiction. You can find a lot of information on those books online in various places- certain authors have to write fiction when it's actually truth. Tom Clancy would be one, although I don't read his books.

POSSUM LIVING  In the 1970s, Dolly Freed lived off the land dirt cheap and plum easy. Living in her own house on a half-acre lot outside of Philadelphia for almost five years, Dolly and her father produced their own food and drink and spent roughly $700 each per year. Thirty years later, Dolly Freed's Possum Living is as fascinating and pertinent as it was in 1978. This reissue of the survivalist classic has a foreword by David Gates and an afterword by the author.  After discussing reasons why you should or shouldn't give up your job, Possum Living gives you details about the cheapest ways with the best results to buy and maintain your home, dress well, cope with the law, stay healthy and keep up a middle-class facade — whether you live in the city, in the suburbs or in a small town. In a delightful, straightforward style, Dolly Freed explains how to be lazy, proud, miserly and honest, live well and enjoy leisure. She shares her knowledge for what you do need — your own home, for example — and what you don't need — such as doctors, lawyers and insurance. Through her own example, Dolly hopes to inspire you to do some independent thinking about how economics affects the course of your life now and may do so in the coming "age of shortages." If you ever wondered what it would be like to be in greater control of your own life, Possum Living will show you — and help you do it for yourself.

That's interesting about your female permie friends being on the west coast. I know a guy who had a great opportunity right outside of my town to run a CSA and that only lasted about 2 years. I don't think he ever got enough business to pay the expenses. The last year he spent with Americorps teaching disadvantaged kids farming, and now he's in some overseas country with his family as a missionary. What I mean by a "great opportunity" was that his parents owned the farm so they had the land and he built his own infrastructure, heavily invested in equipment and a large greenhouse... but like everyone else, he didn't have enough time or money to keep going I assume. I know he was struggling for customers the last couple years. The climate in my region, with predominantly corn and bean farms, towards alternative lifestyles is not conductive.

You have an interesting commentary on women your age and imagination. Did you find the story in the Daily Mail about the lady who picks up pop cans and drives a 1993 Toyota, yet she's a multi-millionaire? She said that people have become much less tolerant of bohemian alternative lifestyles even though that's what the lifeblood of NYC once was. My own father lived a very alternative lifestyle- he spent most afternoons for thirty years walking downtown and taking daily naps in a chair at the bookstore. When he passed he had well over 2,000 books that he had collected over the years. I don't have many of them but I have quite a large collection of my own books, as well as all of my father's Mother Earth News magazines from the first issue through the late 1980's, and I have added on my own collection. I have physical copies of about 60-75% of all of the Mother Earth News magazines ever printed.

I appreciate your sentient towards having children. Without children of my own, it's a interesting situation. From a man's perspective, it's not a smart idea to have children in this day and age unless you know that your spouse is completely committed to you, and they both have a- shall I call it- a business plan to fulfill both of their dreams.

With regards to what you call "Mainstream Society" where are you getting those messages from? Your friends? Television? Tell Lies and Visions? Are your friends/family getting that from the Tell Lies and Vision thing? I don't pay any attention to the tell lies and vison thing... however I'm getting cable as I thoroughly enjoy watching Trump  speak and nothing online has good captioning. Only about $40 a month more than internet alone due to a special they have going right now.

One thing I have realized is that most people, do not know their own heart. It is a mystery to them. They decide in their mind who they think they are, but in the living the truth comes out in what they do. We fool each other, but we fool ourselves more. When we look in the mirror we see only the masks of what our minds have made us out to be.


I've learned in spades that it doesn't matter what you talk about. The only thing that matters is what you do. And if you don't have a track record of doing... then you're kinda screwed.

To that end, I like to garden, but I don't have any interest in killing myself doing it. Thus, why I do handyman work. But, I don't want to be a full-time handyman... as I love my research and other side projects that I do such as restoring wringer washing machines. Wouldn't have time for any of these alternative projects that I do if I worked full time. So, I plan my life out so I don't have to have a full-time income. This house that we live in now, we bought it from a fellow who does tax sales.... full of clothes, vehicles, furniture, and everything from a gentleman who died and his family declined to pay the taxes. Paid for in cash... put in electric heat and plumbing myself... less than roughly $400 a month in bills... makes for a very easy lifestyle. We could easily get it down lower if we did any kind of conservation but $100/month electric, $50/month water bills, $250/yr taxes, $100 cable and $40 cell phone bills don't add up to much right now.

However, as I mentioned at the beginning of this thread it would be nice to get the bills even cheaper and possibly even off-grid. But that is a topic for the future.

I suppose if I ever posted my picture on this forum y'all would call me bohemian or some type. I normally wear bib overalls, Indiana Jones wool hat for good and another narrow brim wool hat for working, with a cotton t-shirt or preferably a linen shirt and Merrell shoes. :) Oh yes... and a full beard with a crew cut.

 
pioneer
master steward
Posts: 5582
Location: Pacific Northwest
1667
cat duck fiber arts forest garden homestead hugelkultur kids cooking wood heat
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

I don't enjoy being told about a divorce for every damn thing that makes her mad though



I remember when my husband and I were engaged, my parents (and I think our marriage counselor, as well) gave us this great rule: "Never say the divorce word, even as a joke." Just talking about a divorce, or even joking about one, sews seeds of discontent and fear. Your brain starts to entertain doubts, doubts that the other person will leave you, doubts that you should be with the, etc. etc. Today is my husband and my 11th anniversary. And, I've never said that word. I think refraining from using that word really is one of the best marriage advice tips I've been given.

I am so sorry that your wife keeps throwing it around. You said that your wife's father is a minister. Have you tried going to one of those marriage retreats that churches often have? Maybe hearing relationship advice from someone other than you might help? Maybe try to spin the retreat as something she'd want to go to...like the food they'll have available, or they have neat facilities with hot tubs or something.

I've honestly never had a chance to go to a marriage retreat, as we've always been too busy or poor, but I've heard good things. And, sometimes just being around people you and she can share experiences with, can really help. I think if my husband and I were where you and your wife are, we'd try to find a way to go to one. It sure sounds more fun than counseling, and she might agree to going to one, even if she doesn't want to go to counseling. A women's ministry at your church might also be a good support system for her.

Does she have PCOS (Polycystic ovary syndrome)? It can lead to depression, and she might be aiming her depression at you. I have PCOS, and I find that a more paleo diet helps not only with my related conditions, but also in stabilizing my emotions.
 
J Anders
Posts: 171
4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Nicole Alderman wrote:

I don't enjoy being told about a divorce for every damn thing that makes her mad though



I remember when my husband and I were engaged, my parents (and I think our marriage counselor, as well) gave us this great rule: "Never say the divorce word, even as a joke." Just talking about a divorce, or even joking about one, sews seeds of discontent and fear. Your brain starts to entertain doubts, doubts that the other person will leave you, doubts that you should be with the, etc. etc. Today is my husband and my 11th anniversary. And, I've never said that word. I think refraining from using that word really is one of the best marriage advice tips I've been given.



And I would say that you are absolutely correct. I don't believe that I've ever said it. If I ever do then......

I am so sorry that your wife keeps throwing it around. You said that your wife's father is a minister. Have you tried going to one of those marriage retreats that churches often have? Maybe hearing relationship advice from someone other than you might help? Maybe try to spin the retreat as something she'd want to go to...like the food they'll have available, or they have neat facilities with hot tubs or something.



Focus on the Family has retreats down in Branson and we really like going down there. I've thought about doing that but would have to look into the specifics for it first. What would be nice is finding a retreat with other deaf/hearing couples. She has said no to going to deaf events with me. I'm not wild about being around other deaf people but I don't mind visiting them once in awhile. The farm that we visited with the deaf/hearing couple was the closest thing we've ever gotten to a marriage retreat.

I've honestly never had a chance to go to a marriage retreat, as we've always been too busy or poor, but I've heard good things. And, sometimes just being around people you and she can share experiences with, can really help. I think if my husband and I were where you and your wife are, we'd try to find a way to go to one. It sure sounds more fun than counseling, and she might agree to going to one, even if she doesn't want to go to counseling. A women's ministry at your church might also be a good support system for her.

Does she have PCOS (Polycystic ovary syndrome)? It can lead to depression, and she might be aiming her depression at you. I have PCOS, and I find that a more paleo diet helps not only with my related conditions, but also in stabilizing my emotions.



Yes.... she was diagnosed with that many years ago. She was gluten free for about 2 years then got off of it because the gluten quit bothering her. She still doesn't overeat bread though.

You guys have any kids yet?
 
pollinator
Posts: 1151
Location: RRV of da Nort
86
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Sarah Koster wrote:
1)  One thing I have realized is that most people, do not know their own heart. It is a mystery to them. They decide in their mind who they think they are, but in the living the truth comes out in what they do. We fool each other, but we fool ourselves more. When we look in the mirror we see only the masks of what our minds have made us out to be.


2) For the barren, today can be used to make a better tomorrow, for somebody else's children. It's still worth it but it puts us face to face with the ugly truth that, we're a lot more selfish than we'd like to think. It feels hollow. As if somehow by having children, we'd be able to feel into the future to know whether it was good or not. As if by not having children, our existence, sentience, awareness will be cut short while that of others stretches onward into the ages yet to come. But why do we feel this way??? Is there any evidence that this is even true? But I think this is the emotion of all or most of people, who do not have children late in life.



Much agree with point #1.  Many reasons for that but if Daniel Quinn was even partially correct about Homo sapiens being evolutionarily directed towards tribal life, then we are certainly living quite the opposite today.....that, too, an aspect of continuing human evolution.

Could you clarify point #2?  Older and childless, I'm nevertheless having difficulty conceptualizing (a) "....it but it puts us face to face with the ugly truth that, we're a lot more selfish than we'd like to think." and (b) "As if by not having children, our existence, sentience, awareness will be cut short while that of others stretches onward into the ages yet to come. But why do we feel this way??? Is there any evidence that this is even true?"  Thanks!.....Interesting discussion.
 
Posts: 572
Location: Chicago/San Francisco
23
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
TjJ wrote:

If your marriage is irreparably broken, then that is a tragedy. Your vows are dust, and your word is void. This is a major blow to your individuality, even as it seems like you are regaining it. If you do separate, use it to become less. There is no human who can make you more. Divorce is a horrible schism in trust, and I hope you don't have to go through it. Most are due to financial issues and your situation seems so. At the end money is just a thing, like any other thing. Don't pretend control = money. Communication is the art of talking with each other not past each other.



Do consider that point. I would say it a little more prosaically: There's much more going on here than the nuts/bolts that you (op) have listed out. All the detail is good, valid and important - I do not dismiss it. The details are what we get to work with, after all. But... There's much more to life than Permies (believe it or not !). And in my experience we  very rarely  have the grace to actually _see_ the most part of the cosmos we live in, the myriad and vast extent of the options potentially open us  from our pin point "here/now". That's often because we have placed ourselves, or stake out, or fear to leave some position (identity) that seems, totally, equal to LIFE to us (There be Dragons Everywhere Else). Except... There's only a billion other ways right here/now - that we don't see. So making changes, evolving, will essentially always seem like becoming less, as TjJ puts it, cuz we can only hope and surmise our coming options. It can even seem like dying. IOW, compromising pretty much always looks like a real suck pit! C'est la vie. Can't see much out there, have to make choices (no choice _there_ cuz not making choices is a choice... gotcha!). Then we gotta have reasons and support or excuses or whatever to pretty up the choices we make (we spend a whole lot of time/energy creating that stuff). People are no way rational and mostly just want to stay in a warm bed!

I believe there is more out there than you can see. And I think it helps greatly to act like you believe that. Better chance of survival, if you will. Just be honest. Nothing works very well w/out honesty. So try to position yourself where you have a chance of really being honest. Like speaking up in a Permies thread - good choice, there!  And the sure thing, slam dunk, perfect plan, big win you set up?  It isn't. Not dumping on plans and dreams. Just saying, they never work the way you think. Never.

Why did you get married?  Really. Nothing to be ashamed of, and no, you don't need to publish it. But you should probably go back there and try to get honest, because that might help you consider where to from here.

Your wife _knows_ you, in ways you don't have a clue about yourself. It's good to have people like that in your life - really good. The old guy who's pissed at you - maybe he knows you, somewhat, too. Worth fixing that up, probably; better move it, though - getting close to bucket time for him. Who are you, really? What are you doing, Really. What are you (or were you)  _doing_ together, you and your wife? What are you making together? What _might_ you make together?

Somebody compared divorce to ripping plywood apart. Really good way to put it. I went through something like that and I wasn't even married, just tight for five years. Actually, my situation was a lot like yours in many ways. I still don't know if it was the "right" decisions - often I think not. But _something_ had to be done... A close friend went through a divorce and I can tell for sure that it changed him for life and not in an impressively good way. Not because of some horrible stuff before, but just because of parting what was once whole. So divorce may be your decision and, if so, it's _your_ decision and nobody can gainsay you - either of you. But while it may be the best and right choice, don't for a second go into it thinking it's going to be like donating the car that doesn't run any more.

And we go around thinking life set and done. Not. Maybe it'd be worth getting together, both of you, and taking some basic reasonable steps to see WTF is going on here with something important that both of you ponied up and got yourselves into. Together. It sounds like your wife is hurting (not saying you're not also). Do you give a flying f&#! and a rolling doughnut? Be honest. And I'm not insulting you. Often "feelings" wear out, while others there place. But love and caring is a decision, not a feeling. Even if you don't, maybe you think it might be worth looking into? Cuz you, well, could, maybe, be wrong about some detail or other? Not much to do either way w/out you meet, communicate, play fair, try hard and cut some slack. Probably a lot of slack. But maybe that's what your really want to do. Maybe. Or not. But IAC, there is a _lot_ more to life than a garden or a TV and it would seem to make sense for both of you to get alert and check it out to the extent you honestly can. Because, trust me <g>, you two have built something real over the last few years.

So what are you going to do to find out? Or is it time for a unilateral action?

Good luck.
Rufus
 
pollinator
Posts: 387
Location: SF Bay Area
50
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Such an interesting thread. Marriage means so many different things to different people. My ex says that he and I were looking for different things. I said you'd be hard pressed to find a spouse that didn't expect you to come home most of the time. He just really didn't want to be married with children, which is fine, but it would have been better if he had figured this out before.

From reading other people's post and the OP's post, I will say my experience seems quite different than many people's today. I had children young, and then married young. He was older and I believed the words he said. This seems a fatal flaw of mine, believing people's words. The last couple years, I constantly remind myself to watch people's behavior, don't listen to their words.

I stayed because things weren't that bad, he wasn't abusive or cheating for a long time. But unhappiness takes its toll, and things got worse.

I have to say, I've had a lot of terrible things happen to me, but marrying him was the worst decision I ever made. And I'm the happiest I've been since having babies. I love babies.
 
Nicole Alderman
pioneer
master steward
Posts: 5582
Location: Pacific Northwest
1667
cat duck fiber arts forest garden homestead hugelkultur kids cooking wood heat
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

I graduated high school in 2002....The initial question wasn't driven by my personal situation. Just looking through the forums and seeing who is posting and who is active, I just noticed a number of gentlemen around our age that seem to be active here but not so many ladies. Lots of older ladies here though. 



Looks like I'm a year younger than you, as I graduated in 2003. I've noticed that, depending on what forums one is reading on permies, the demographics are a bit different. The kids forum has quite a few posts from ladies around our age. And, I've also noticed that it's hard for me to tell the age of a lot of posters here on permies. I think a lot of us permies talk/write differently than the general population. We're often more well-read and interested in historical times, and thus write a bit differently. I'm frequently surprised by how young/old someone is, because I assumed someone was the opposite of what they actually were.

Yes.... she was diagnosed with that many years ago. She was gluten free for about 2 years then got off of it because the gluten quit bothering her. She still doesn't overeat bread though.

You guys have any kids yet?



We do! My son will turn 5 in October, and my daughter will turn 2 then. You can read some of the turmoil of thoughts I went through when deciding whether or not to have a second child here (https://permies.com/t/52261/time-growing-family-starting-homestead). We were able to conceive on the first try with each of my kids, and my miscarriage (and PCOS can cause miscarriages!). I have two cousins that have "symptomatic" PCOS (overweight, very irregular periods), and both have conceived children. It just took longer. I've known many people who went paleo and got their health in gear, and were able to concieve. However, I would not suggest having kids as a way to "fix" a marriage. I worked in preschool, and saw MANY families who divorced when their kids were around 3 years old, because of the stressors of having kids. Babies are NOT easy, especially if you get a colicky one, as my son was.

My PCOS is "asymptomatic"--at least, that's what the doctors told me. I had irregular periods, but no hirsuit-ness, acne, or problems with my weight. They found out I had PCOS when I miscarried and didn't stop bleeding for almost 40 days. They did an ultrasound and found cysts. They never gave me any resources about PCOS, as I was "asymptomatic"...come to find out, even those that are asymptomatic can become symptomatic if they don't take care of their ovaries, and they can get more of the side-effects (they might never have had problems with hairyness or hairloss, but since they weren't taking care of themselves, those problems start to arise).

When I removed gluten and went more paleo, I noticed my periods becoming seriously more regular. They went from lasting 7 days, to 3-4 days, and my cycle went from ranging 18-25 days, to being a normal 28 day cycle. Diet is so important! If she's moody and gaining weight and her periods are irregular, the bread and grains and sugars and Whoppers and Olive Garden are messing with her...and she really might become a much better person to be around if she becomes stabilized by good food and some exercise. The problem is, when someone is depressed, it's REALLY hard to be motivated to do those things.

If you can cook, try making her healthier meals--still tasty, but with more meat and yummy veggies (mmmmm, green beans with bacon), and healthier treats made with coconut flour, or even just gluten-free flour. Make some banana pancakes and bacon for breakfast, a healthy dinner, and help her have a healthy lunch to take to work. Sure, it takes more time to make from scratch, and you'll probably feel like you're doing all the work around...and you might be. But, perhaps by loving on her and doing some of her jobs, she'll feel a bit better about herself, maybe even be more motivated to do more, and the good food might help her feel less depressed. My husband has Crohn's. I spend a LOT of time making his food and figuring out what can help him be healthy. I pick herbs for his tea because he doens't want to pick them himself, I make him healthy, tasty treats do he doesn't feel depressed about what he can't eat...and he's a lot better for it. I'd much rather have him healthy and happy and helpful, than depressed and in pain and wanting to spend thousands of dollars we don't have and time we don't have fixing up a classic car because he's depressed.

You mention taking a walk in the morning--I think this is a faboulous idea! You mentioned that she griped about it. Why did she gripe? Was there something she wanted to do instead? Maybe next time say, "I'm going to be going for a walk in the morning. Is there anything you'd like me to do for you before I'd go? Would you like to join me?" I think one of the nicest things my husband says is, "How can I help you?" I feel loved, appreciated, and part of a team. It's something I should say to him, too.

Another way, perhaps, to help her to be active and feel better is to find out what type of exercies she likes. When we lived in the city, I HATED taking walks, because there were people everywhere and it was overwhelming for me. And, if it was hot, I hated taking walks. And, my husband was more fit than me, so he'd march on ahead and I'd be huffing and puffing and feeling miserable. One beautiful snowy day, he asked if I wanted to go for a walk. I love the snow, so I agreed...and then he decided to do a death-march up a steep hill--he wanted EXERCISE, and I just wanted a fun walk! He was sure that I hated walks. Then we moved out to our place in the country, and I LOVE walking around here. I get to meet neighbors, and I can walk slowly and enjoy the scenery, and it's not usually hot. I'm usually the one dragging him on walks!

Maybe drive to the city and take walks there. Maybe say, "How about we watch the movie you want, and then we go for a walk together--where would you like to walk?" Sometimes I'm so lost in my own depression (I had LOTS of postpartum depression after I gave birth to my first) that I couldn't even think or articulate how to help myself feel better. I needed my husband to help me, to say, "You need to drink water--here's some water!" or "Have you eaten yet? Have a pepperoni stick, or some cheese or some yogurt!" He'd stop by on his way home from work to buy the more-expensive foods that I wouldn't pay for, just to make sure I'd eat something, saying, "I found food you will eat!" And then he'd take the kids so I could eat it.

Writing this is a good reminder for me of all the things he DOES do for me. It's easy to think of the things the other person doesn't do. My husband doesn't clean up much, and spends more money than I'd like, and spends time on his fish rather than home maintenance, etc etc etc. But, he supports me emotionally and he helps take care of me, and he does a lot of other things really well. What does your wife do well? There's probably at least one thing she does for you. Find it.

Thank you for your perspective. I'm personally content. Always have been. One of my favorite poems is the one by Solzenar.... keep it posted by my computer.

My House is Small

My house is small

because my desires are too ...



I love a simple life...sometimes it's hard to be content when life isn't simple. But then, I'm not really being content if I'm only content when things are going the way I want them. If I'm always mad at my husband for doing things differently, or because he wants to drive into town more and have a bit more money and a bit less "simple" of a life, than I'm not really content, am I?


Sarah- For the record I'm not single... but I was just wondering how have you stayed on the permaculture path? I can see why men gravitate to the permaculture path just because our culture has really made it an issue for white men to have "company work" so it is forcing them to reassess everything that they've ever known. However, for women, the future is (supposedly) bright and rosy and they have no problems getting college educated and finding a job. The programming is strong for women, that's for certain.



I thought I'd answer this one, too. I'm one of the people that grew up loving to play in the woods and dig in the rocks. I love reading fantasy, dystopian novels, and historical fiction. I wanted to live a simple life in a cabin in the woods. I wanted to be prepared in case of an end of society or other disaster (see thread here for a bit about that) I At the time, I never thought of having ducks and a garden, or preserving food, and those came about from seeing Joel Salatin of Polyface Farms in the documentary Food.Inc (it was free on Hulu). That was, I think, my first encounter with anything like permaculture, and what got me researching and discovering it. The only hard part to "staying the path of permaculture" is not stress-buying (I learned the trait from my husband, as I used to HATE shopping, but I like shopping with him as a way of escaping the house and our problems...which makes me wonder, maybe there's something in your house--maybe it's messy or things that need to be done---that your wife can't muster the energy to fix, and makes her want to escape to the city/shopping/eating out?). It's also hard continually persuading my husband that, no, we really don't need this or that, and persuading both of us that we don't need to spend tons of money on more things for the kids. That's hard. Most parents want their kids to be able to have everything...even when  less really is more when it comes to toys and experiences. 
 
pollinator
Posts: 1362
Location: cool climate, Blue Mountains, Australia
16
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I can tell you what worked for me: First, you figure out your shortcomings in your relationship. Don't focus on your partner, because you can't change your partner the only person you can change is yourself. SEcond, set yourself a timeframe - it has to be reasonable, two weeks is not enough try for several months. During this time, you try to do everything you can do on your side. Try to be the perfect you (to and extend). Then when the set date is reached figure out if anything has changed, if your relationship is better now. If not leave it. If it has changed to a degree but not enough try a bit more. But ultimately you have to set  a time when enough is enough. It worked for me I was very clear that nothing will change and left. I did not look back a second. It is very important that you don't talk with your partner about that ultimatum because ultimatums do not work only in the way described. During that time you can discuss the issues but don't overdiscuss!
 
Angelika Maier
pollinator
Posts: 1362
Location: cool climate, Blue Mountains, Australia
16
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Just another thought: Obviously your wife is bringing the money home and holds a regular job. So probably she thinks she deserves something in return, and this is right. Handymen at least around here make a good living, so you should be able to make some money. Maybe you should review your tool-spending. You don't need every tool available. The more you spend on maybe unnecessary tools the less likely your wife will be to save money. Do you talk about purchases of tools before or do you simply go and buy? It would really piss me off if I would have to work full time whilst my husband is handyman and doesn't make anything at all but spends a fortune on tools. There are always two sides of a story. But maybe I am wrong and you are just buying the basics,.....
 
pollinator
Posts: 685
Location: Federal Way, WA - Western Washington (Zone 8 - temperate maritime)
22
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
'Susan Pruitt.... way to go, girl!!  You remind me of another inspiration here... Tracy!! (among many I haven't run into... yet ;)    I 'know' a lot of this,... but I need to 'remember' it all the time!! lol    Thanks... I'll put your story where I can reread it often :)

Nothing like a 'good' story to implant a good lesson.
 
pollinator
Posts: 2319
353
books cat chicken duck rabbit transportation trees woodworking
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I am wondering if the wife ever had complete bloodwork testing?

I was in a serious funk until I had a chainsaw accident and found out I had cancer of my Thyroid. It may not be as dramatic as having cancer, but a simple non-cancerous problem with the Endocrine system can throw moods way out of whack, blood sugar levels, hormones, EVERYTHING. I mean everything!!

Looking back it seems obvious including the fist sized lump inside my neck, but the problem developed so slow, everyone missed it. I am still not 100% Travis, but I am better.
 
Posts: 33
Location: Cambodia
bee chicken duck goat homestead pig rabbit solar
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Odd. I read the OP, then scrolled down without reading other replies. Ironically, I stopped on Bethany's post, and read it. I also happen to agree with her post.

I am a South'rn boy. I was born and grew up in Gawga. Years later, I moved to Southeast Asia, and have been here ever since. I live in a small farm of 2 hectares (~5 acres). We raise a bit of livestock and grow rice and sesame. We live in a rural part of the province where almost nothing exists, aside from farms.

Personally, I feel people need to be with someone who has similar interests. I firmly believe that people who have very little in common, will ultimately part ways. I happen to be into self-sustainability and prepping. Of course, anyone who lives in this country can tell you, every day life here is self-sustainability and prepping. For example, you never know when the power is going to dip, or drop out completely, or for how long. (This prepper has both solar and back up generator power. So, let the mains drop out whenever they wish.)

Enough about me and on my tangent. Sorry.

J.Anders,

I think you have been married for a number of years? If she has been this way from the beginning, I don't see her changing anytime soon (READ: never). I'm not a huge believer in "counseling". I don't think a counselor will know more about your situation, than someone who has lived likewise. I have.

If she has no power within her to save for your future, when that inheritance is sorted - do NOT let her get her hands on it. If you do, it will be gone like a shot. In fact - I may get pummeled by others here, but keep her from even learning of this happening, if at all possible.

You are 35. You still have time to start over with someone new. I just hope, for your sake, the divorce laws are not against you, there.

Man, you really do need someone who has similar goals in life, to be with. For some reason, I think you already know that. Hey, I'm 52. If I were with someone at this point in my life, who didn't want to travel down a similar path, I would rather go it alone.

Oh, you happened to bring it up. If you don't mind, how do you owe a friend $2,000 USD, if you were there helping HIM? (If you do not wish to reply to this, I completely understand.)
 
Paul Petrea
Posts: 33
Location: Cambodia
bee chicken duck goat homestead pig rabbit solar
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Something else that just came to mind.

Like I said, I'm 52. I was fortunate enough to retire at a fairly young age, about as old as you are now. I sold a business that was dedicated to making other people happy - shippers, consignees, employees, everyone but me. After I liquidated everything and retired, I decided I was going to be happy from then on out. Life is too danged short not to be. I was going to find someone who wanted to be happy with me. If not, happy trails, no harm, no foul. I would either be happy alone, or with someone who had similar interests. Again, life is too short not to be happy, man.

You do what you have to, in order to achieve that goal for yourself.
 
J Anders
Posts: 171
4
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Odd. I read the OP, then scrolled down without reading other replies. Ironically, I stopped on Bethany's post, and read it. I also happen to agree with her post.

I am a South'rn boy. I was born and grew up in Gawga. Years later, I moved to Southeast Asia, and have been here ever since. I live in a small farm of 2 hectares (~5 acres). We raise a bit of livestock and grow rice and sesame. We live in a rural part of the province where almost nothing exists, aside from farms.

Personally, I feel people need to be with someone who has similar interests. I firmly believe that people who have very little in common, will ultimately part ways. I happen to be into self-sustainability and prepping. Of course, anyone who lives in this country can tell you, every day life here is self-sustainability and prepping. For example, you never know when the power is going to dip, or drop out completely, or for how long. (This prepper has both solar and back up generator power. So, let the mains drop out whenever they wish.)

Enough about me and on my tangent. Sorry.



Totally agree on "Need to be with someone who has similar interests". I'm getting to the point where there is nothing more that I would like than to find some land and live in a very small house... the more I see shit changing and how they are poisoning the cities. The question is if my wife is going to change with me or complain. Interestingly, the other day she said "I'm trying so hard not to be a bitch". So there is some improvement going on at the moment and I haven't heard about a divorce in awhile.


J.Anders,

I think you have been married for a number of years? If she has been this way from the beginning, I don't see her changing anytime soon (READ: never). I'm not a huge believer in "counseling". I don't think a counselor will know more about your situation, than someone who has lived likewise. I have.

If she has no power within her to save for your future, when that inheritance is sorted - do NOT let her get her hands on it. If you do, it will be gone like a shot. In fact - I may get pummeled by others here, but keep her from even learning of this happening, if at all possible.



Married in the third month of the eleventh year. I agree on counseling. She knows about the inheritance and is pissed at me because I've said multiple times that if I do anything with it it will be an investment for the future and that investment is REQUIRED to have a payback. Some investments that I am thinking about are flipping houses or buying a plasma cutter and doing metal design work or art. At this point in time metal work/art isn't looking very good as I've seen several of those types of businesses fail in my area recently. There's work available for welders- I have no problem doing it on my own but I'm not doing it in a factory because I can't control what other people are welding and I'm already very hard of hearing. Don't want to be blind too.  I haven't decided just WHAT I'd like to do. Flipping houses is expensive business but very attractive to me as a handyman.

Not sure if it's that she has no power within her to save for her future as much as she's got this 100K+ in student loan debt and worried that they will just confiscate anything she's got to pay the stupid loans. I've told her to get started on one of the multiple payment plans but she's been screwed so bad by various people from the agencies she's said F'them. Google Sallie Mae problems if you want a taste of it, it's a well known issue.


You are 35. You still have time to start over with someone new. I just hope, for your sake, the divorce laws are not against you, there.



I don't think that they are in my state. As long as I keep my $$ separate from her $$ we're good. If she doesn't pop out a kid very soon that might be a real game changer for her. She's already stressing out over not having kids and I've mentioned many of the things in this thread to her and it all goes back to taking metformin instead of lifestyle changes.

Man, you really do need someone who has similar goals in life, to be with. For some reason, I think you already know that. Hey, I'm 52. If I were with someone at this point in my life, who didn't want to travel down a similar path, I would rather go it alone.



And I would agree w/ you on that. I didn't mind being alone before we were married. It has been hard for me to declare my independence from my mother but I'm getting old enough now to know that I can't let my mother's bull crap define my life. I think a lot of people struggle with that if they don't have parents who are willing to set them free. Its great to be in the same area as family but when you're in an area of people who frankly don't give a shit and don't have any real community of people interested in long-term survival independent of the "system" it gets real hard. Oddly, my mother did have 20 acres in Missouri in the general area that I would like to be in for a good 30 years that was all paid for but she sold it about the time I got out of high school for a song. She had the same dreams at one time. Too bad she didn't keep it longer. Oh well.

Oh, you happened to bring it up. If you don't mind, how do you owe a friend $2,000 USD, if you were there helping HIM? (If you do not wish to reply to this, I completely understand.)



Because the guy is an ass financially. I like him, grew up with him since I was 4 years old but if you get in any financial crap w/ him he likes to screw people over. I got I think it was $2k plus room and board for 3 months of work remodeling his cabin. That wasn't too bad. Then I came back home (600 miles away) and was cleaning out his house, stored his stuff for about 2 years, and then told him I'd buy his house on contract for 38k. Gave him right at $8k before we'd had enough and decided that I needed to go back to college for mechanical engineering. Sold the house to some dumb bimbo for $8k of her grandma's inheritance and then she gave him 1 payment of $500 and skipped town.

He wants $2k for a couple things, a $750 pickup camper that he didn't take with him and left on the property and for payments on the house that he lost. I think there was a down payment that never got paid. Of course I never got paid for cleaning out his house or storing his stuff for 2 yrs. He didn't come get the rest of his stuff for 2+ years. Did I mention the foundation wall that collapsed and cost $800 to fix not long after we moved in? The 8k went to pay for living expenses at college and bought a couple different houses but that's an entirely different story. I sold the camper for less than $100 at auction because it was literally falling apart. The jacks were caving in one side. He finally sold his house for 25k or so several months after I moved out, after sitting on it for 2 yrs because he wanted his 38K so bad. Sad thing about the whole story is that the house got paid for by FEMA and then the local agencies completely insulated and winterized it for him for free. So really, he didn't have much money of his own invested in the place at all.... just being extremely stingy about it. Just had to stay there for 15 yrs for FEMA and 10 yrs for the local agencies and outlasted all of them. Then got his own inheritance and got out of town.
 
J Anders
Posts: 171
4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Paul Petrea wrote:Something else that just came to mind.

Like I said, I'm 52. I was fortunate enough to retire at a fairly young age, about as old as you are now. I sold a business that was dedicated to making other people happy - shippers, consignees, employees, everyone but me. After I liquidated everything and retired, I decided I was going to be happy from then on out. Life is too danged short not to be. I was going to find someone who wanted to be happy with me. If not, happy trails, no harm, no foul. I would either be happy alone, or with someone who had similar interests. Again, life is too short not to be happy, man.

You do what you have to, in order to achieve that goal for yourself.



It would be awesome to find someone who had a crystal ball and could tell me what I would be most likely to succeed financially at doing in the areas that I like to live in. And that is the caveat. In the areas that I like to live in- Rural America 30-60 miles outside of the big cities.  Because these areas are NOT doing well at all right now. There is a tire and auto service shop here in my town that was doing alright and was purchased by someone else a couple years ago for I think it was 275k to 300k, had 5 employees at the time of transfer, now it's down to one employee- the owner himself- and he is just barely making the bills. The place can't be worth more than $50-60K itself right now. While there's an auto shop about 20 miles away from me for sale for $60k I think it was. I've thought about hanging out more at the tire shop and fixing cars but the owner is not very confident in the auto repair business. He doesn't want to do anything beyond remove and replace parts and I'm a guy who will do literally anything on a car except rebuild a transmission if I have the tools. And the transmission is only because I haven't seen a transmission along with the right manual to fix it!

Available jobs in my town include anything I want to do with boat manufacturing for $10 or less an hour. Some of my friends don't understand why I'm not interested in that. I've always told them that I'm not working on a factory floor and dealing with muh safety crap because I wear hearing aids. I know very well I could go to one of the larger metro areas in my region and easily get $50 an hour doing construction/handyman type work but that just doesn't float my boat.

If you have read my other posts on other forums here you'd probably see some of the ideas I've got- have a thread in the cottage forum.

Really though I'd like just getting my expenses down to a serious minimum and picking up a few odd jobs. Basically what I'm already doing here-  just tired of living in town period. I see a few interesting prospects down in MO today for $13k w/ 2 acres so any way it goes something might come up.
 
J Anders
Posts: 171
4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Travis Johnson wrote: I am wondering if the wife ever had complete bloodwork testing?

I was in a serious funk until I had a chainsaw accident and found out I had cancer of my Thyroid. It may not be as dramatic as having cancer, but a simple non-cancerous problem with the Endocrine system can throw moods way out of whack, blood sugar levels, hormones, EVERYTHING. I mean everything!!

Looking back it seems obvious including the fist sized lump inside my neck, but the problem developed so slow, everyone missed it. I am still not 100% Travis, but I am better.



No not yet. We both could use bloodwork testing. I have waardenberg's syndrome and my theory that I have come up with is that part of what causes it is low levels of magnesium and vitamin D. For some reason I came across some info that suggested that iodine would be real helpful. Anytime I'm taking vit D regularly and magnesium I feel better. How did I do this? I isolated the gene that causes waardenberg's and then I looked for what causes problems with that gene. I can't duplicate the google search I did again but that was my conclusion.

Angelika Maier wrote: Just another thought: Obviously your wife is bringing the money home and holds a regular job. So probably she thinks she deserves something in return, and this is right. Handymen at least around here make a good living, so you should be able to make some money. Maybe you should review your tool-spending. You don't need every tool available. The more you spend on maybe unnecessary tools the less likely your wife will be to save money. Do you talk about purchases of tools before or do you simply go and buy? It would really piss me off if I would have to work full time whilst my husband is handyman and doesn't make anything at all but spends a fortune on tools. There are always two sides of a story. But maybe I am wrong and you are just buying the basics,.....



I like unnecessary tools even less than she does. I bought a drywall sander on this last job for $130 and while it's a practical necessity to get the job done fast, and will be a money maker in the future, I don't like seeing it sitting around cluttering up my shop!
I'm buying a engine hoist soon because I need to put a engine in my work van, had one for the longest time and sold it because I "never used it".... Ugh. The joys of doing what I do. The good news though is that I'm replacing the engine hoist for the same price I sold it for so.... it's all good in the end.
None of this has much to do with tools and what I do for a job. See other post I just posted where she told me just a couple days ago that she's trying so hard not to be a bitch.

Angelika Maier wrote: I can tell you what worked for me: First, you figure out your shortcomings in your relationship. Don't focus on your partner, because you can't change your partner the only person you can change is yourself. SEcond, set yourself a timeframe - it has to be reasonable, two weeks is not enough try for several months. During this time, you try to do everything you can do on your side. Try to be the perfect you (to and extend). Then when the set date is reached figure out if anything has changed, if your relationship is better now. If not leave it. If it has changed to a degree but not enough try a bit more. But ultimately you have to set  a time when enough is enough. It worked for me I was very clear that nothing will change and left. I did not look back a second. It is very important that you don't talk with your partner about that ultimatum because ultimatums do not work only in the way described. During that time you can discuss the issues but don't overdiscuss!



Fortunatley, at the moment things seem to be getting better. We'll see how they continue to go as we go further down the road. That's part of why I posted here, I can get feedback from anyone who wants to post and I guess you could say a "diary". Today she's working again for the weekend, so I do have time to post on this particular thread.

Nicole Alderman wrote:  I thought I'd answer this one, too. I'm one of the people that grew up loving to play in the woods and dig in the rocks. I love reading fantasy, dystopian novels, and historical fiction. I wanted to live a simple life in a cabin in the woods. I wanted to be prepared in case of an end of society or other disaster (see thread here for a bit about that) I At the time, I never thought of having ducks and a garden, or preserving food, and those came about from seeing Joel Salatin of Polyface Farms in the documentary Food.Inc (it was free on Hulu). That was, I think, my first encounter with anything like permaculture, and what got me researching and discovering it. The only hard part to "staying the path of permaculture" is not stress-buying (I learned the trait from my husband, as I used to HATE shopping, but I like shopping with him as a way of escaping the house and our problems...which makes me wonder, maybe there's something in your house--maybe it's messy or things that need to be done---that your wife can't muster the energy to fix, and makes her want to escape to the city/shopping/eating out?). It's also hard continually persuading my husband that, no, we really don't need this or that, and persuading both of us that we don't need to spend tons of money on more things for the kids. That's hard. Most parents want their kids to be able to have everything...even when  less really is more when it comes to toys and experiences. 



Thank you for your perspective on this quote and the rest of what you posted. I don't have kids yet but that'll probably be a fight we'll have, the kids DON'T need more or better than we had when we were kids!

Various forms of permaculture have interested me for a long time, I just haven't gotten into chatting with others about it, so that's why I joined here. In my little suburban lot I've cut a swale across the slope and then planted potatoes into that area- it's the first year in 4 years of planting potatoes that I can remember having beautiful big green potato plants nearly to September! They might last til frost it looks like. I had fertilized that area last fall so that probably helped. I thought I'd dug them all up by this time of year. Need to post garden pics.

I went to look at your linked thread "you know you're a permie when...." and laughed when I saw "your garden has weeds and you don't care". Reminds me that I do need to go get some of them under control but I really don't give a crap about them most of the time.
 
Paul Petrea
Posts: 33
Location: Cambodia
bee chicken duck goat homestead pig rabbit solar
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

J Anders wrote:Of course I never got paid for cleaning out his house or storing his stuff for 2 yrs. He didn't come get the rest of his stuff for 2+ years.



I'd say that makes you even.

J Anders wrote:If she doesn't pop out a kid very soon that might be a real game changer for her. She's already stressing out over not having kids and I've mentioned many of the things in this thread to her and it all goes back to taking metformin instead of lifestyle changes.



Brother, no matter what, please don't let her get pregnant until / unless you know your relationship is going in a positive direction. (I'm not talkin' weeks or months here, either.) Too many children today, come from split homes.

J Anders wrote:If you have read my other posts on other forums here you'd probably see some of the ideas I've got- have a thread in the cottage forum.



No. I'm pretty new. This is the first thread of yours that I have seen. And, the first thread, I believe, started by another member, that I have actually posted in. I will try to locate the thread, though. Still getting accustomed to this particular forum software.

EDIT: Actually, I see I joined this forum in December of 2013. I have only just become active on it, though. I seem to be doing that a lot. That is, I join a forum, then visit it a long time, before actually becoming active and posting on it.

====================================

Thank you for sharing with me, and other here. I am very sorry to hear of these issues. I hope and pray they get sorted for you, to your satisfaction.

 
pollinator
Posts: 504
Location: 6a
73
dog forest garden hugelkultur trees woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Be delicate and plant seeds.   Go lite on the stick and heavy on the carrot.  Start reading about what you can do to save, make it a game, make it fun.  

It's doable just not instantaneous. 
 
J Anders
Posts: 171
4
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Paul Petrea wrote:

J Anders wrote:Of course I never got paid for cleaning out his house or storing his stuff for 2 yrs. He didn't come get the rest of his stuff for 2+ years.



I'd say that makes you even.



And I would agree. I've known him long enough that I know that he'll come around eventually. He's had people "screw him" before and give him a few years and he'll forget about what ever he got screwed over and pick up the friendship again.

Paul Petrea wrote:

J Anders wrote:If she doesn't pop out a kid very soon that might be a real game changer for her. She's already stressing out over not having kids and I've mentioned many of the things in this thread to her and it all goes back to taking metformin instead of lifestyle changes.



Brother, no matter what, please don't let her get pregnant until / unless you know your relationship is going in a positive direction. (I'm not talkin' weeks or months here, either.) Too many children today, come from split homes.



Not worried about that at the current rate of progress, that's for sure. Note I said "for her".

Paul Petrea wrote:

J Anders wrote:If you have read my other posts on other forums here you'd probably see some of the ideas I've got- have a thread in the cottage forum.



No. I'm pretty new. This is the first thread of yours that I have seen. And, the first thread, I believe, started by another member, that I have actually posted in. I will try to locate the thread, though. Still getting accustomed to this particular forum software.

EDIT: Actually, I see I joined this forum in December of 2013. I have only just become active on it, though. I seem to be doing that a lot. That is, I join a forum, then visit it a long time, before actually becoming active and posting on it.

====================================

Thank you for sharing with me, and other here. I am very sorry to hear of these issues. I hope and pray they get sorted for you, to your satisfaction.



Here's the thread I was referring to: https://permies.com/t/91480/permaculture-projects/Hard-find-pay

 
Posts: 17
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Get rid of her. The sooner the better. You're going to do it eventually. She's a dream killer.
 
Posts: 508
Location: Eastern Kansas
9
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

J Anders wrote:

Travis Johnson wrote:

I went to look at your linked thread "you know you're a permie when...." and laughed when I saw "your garden has weeds and you don't care". Reminds me that I do need to go get some of them under control but I really don't give a crap about them most of the time.






...................................................

Meh. When your potatos are ready to dig then you can run a lawn mower across the lot of them. The weeds will reduce your yield a bit, but, meh.

Congrats to your wife for the weight that she has lost!

 
We don't have time to be charming! Quick, read this tiny ad:
This is an example of the new permies.com Thread Boost feature
https://permies.com/wiki/61482/Thread-Boost-feature
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!