What to do? Different goals than the spouse

Judith Browning wrote:
Sometimes people aren't made for each other, sometimes they marry for the wrong reasons and sometimes they grow apart.
Why continue if both of you are suffering?  I suppose you could try counseling, maybe it would help but I'm not hearing any 'I love this person and can't live without them' thoughts that would be a basis for marriage counseling.

Take this with a grain of salt from someone who lived with her guy for five years first and has been married for another 43yrs.
We have had some (very) rough patches but actually having love and respect for each other got us through them...growing old together is lovely.

Terri Matthews wrote:
You loved her once: what in the world happened?

It sounds like both of you are trying to change the other, and that never ends well! People are what they are. "Radical acceptance" is accepting what you cannot change. Your wife will probably never want to help you in the garden

And, where I live winter will come in perhaps 2 months time and I do not like that, but because I accept it I can plan for it. Next Saturday I will be buying Fall vegetables to be planted into the new bed I am putting up, and I will harvest and freeze them before winter. IF I HAD NOT ACCEPTED the fact that winter was coming I would have planted seeds and ended up with nothing to show for it. Because I accept what I cannot change I lead a better life

By the same token, your wife is who she is. Accept it and plan for it, so that you lead a rich and fulfilling life.

You loved her once: what in the world happened?

Bethany Dutch wrote:
I think the thing is sometimes we aren’t able to truly see the person until later on

Cristo Balete wrote: Check the state laws where you live, because it might be the case that if you inherit money, it's all yours, even if you are married, if you don't put it in a joint account.  Put it in a new account under your name only, and only you can touch it, if that's the way it works in your state.

Now, if that causes major issues, then maybe those are the issues that need dealing with.

If you don't have the same goals as you age, then you will have to rethink the whole situation.  And if you buy the property of your dreams and split up, you'll have to buy out her half, or give up half of something to buy out her half.

Changing a lifestyle to something very rural, even 30 minutes remote from what a partner is used to, could very easily cause issues, because it's an hour round trip.  If every trip out and back to that property is a 60-minute trip or a 60-mile round trip, it takes its toll on time, vehicles, gas, patience, comfort, safety, and most importantly, partnership.   And what silently builds is resentment, anger, and frustration.

Travis Johnson wrote:

My problem with that line of thinking is, it is the easy way out.

In my experience, when faced with an easy path, or faced with a harder one; going with the more difficult path is usually the best course of action. This is no different than farming where tractors till, seed, fertilize with urea, spray round-up and harvest...easy, versus that of organic farming where people have to mix compost, weed by hand, grow food in groups (3 sisters), etc. It is a much harder way to farm, but also has many, many more tangible benefits.

I have been through divorce twice and can state with honesty that they were the two hardest things to deal with in my life. I had no idea it was possible to hurt that deeply and not die. Other people who have experienced that can attest to that statement as well. Kids or no kids, it would seem as if divorce was like sawing a board in two, but really it is like breaking a piece of plywood; jagged edges everywhere and a real mess that cannot be put back together cleanly.

I will not state that your issues are small beause that is perspective. For some people things I have dealt with are minor, where as for others they would have been debilitating as well. Just because an issue might not be a big deal to me, I do know it can be a huge deal to other people. I respect that difference of perspective.

To me, when there is tension between two people (or two parties) it stems from wanting control. It is almost as if the inheritence is generating fear instead of the financial security it should bring. That is unfortunate, and I hope you and your wife can have a heart to heart conversation about this so that your marriage will remain. Most of the time, between two people, a lack of communication is all that is missing.

natasha todd wrote:If you don't have the time now to do it on your own then you won't be able to do it at all if you spilt and tried to live out your dream on your own. I think you need to manage your expectations.

Look at the wheaton eco scale and remember that you seem crazy to people below you on that scale.

It sounds like you don't enjoy or value her company

 You need better communication to see if either or both of you will change your values.

Cameron Whyte wrote: A lot of good arguments here and it makes for a fascinating read. It would be interesting to get your wife’s perspective and because so many replies have been thoughtful and helpful, to me at least. It’s hard not to paint yourself as the hero in this relationship. I am rooting for you because you are making good points. I would feel the same way in your situation. But other people have also noted that you appear to resent this woman, scorn her decisions, needs and desires as inferior to your own.

 I thought for sure that you were merely seeking a permission slip to leave this sad, unhappy, needy woman that wronged you. But how quickly you leapt to her defence when it was suggested you simply leave. When was the last time you spent a few weeks apart from this wife of yours to gain some perspective? A few weeks away and things will become much clearer. Go to Arkansas, patch things up with your old friend and come clean with him. Ask him if you can spend some time away from her so that you can identify whether you want in or out of this marriage. I am sure he will understand. Request that he keep his low opinion of her to himself and just act as a sounding board if need be. I am trying not to be judgemental and be helpful because you both deserve happiness. Maybe find a men only relationship counselling retreat where you might spend a week or three days focusing on what you can do to make a positive out of what appears a challenging time in your life. Good luck to you and thank you for your bravery in opening up what is an intimate and personal examination of your life.

Tj Jefferson wrote:
My wife and I were together for 3 years, then got married (i.e. yeah we were living in sin). I was a poor partner, and she responded with being a poor partner, and around it went. Humans are stupid and proud. We contemplated divorce, we had no children and no assets. Ultimately we went through counselling. This is not a weakness, it is a necessity, only a fool is his own attorney or his own counselor.

Eventually, through grace I stopped being an ass-hat. She stopped being a nag. We both became less, so we as a team could become something. It has been an amazing and fulfilling ten years. We have moved four times and have been insolvent twice. She is my best friend and I am her rock. This is marriage. We are more than we were as individuals, and we were both accomplished as individuals, but "incompatible" as a team.

Nancy Sutton wrote: The wife sounds very depressed, self destructive, and taking it out on husband.  She won't take care of her health, is apparently controlling, and self-centered.  She needs to fix personal problems that probably preceded and have nothing to do with husband ... doubt anyone else can do it for her.  Good counseling might surface this for her to address, with or without husband.  That's all from one husband's perspective, however.  Btw,  I believe many a therapist has stated that 'in love/infatuation' is actually a form of mental illness... 'seeing what you want to see'... and reality will inevitably have to be dealt with.

Alex Riddles wrote: On the subject of land and farming...  I grew up in Cedar Rapids IA and currently live in Columbia MO.  What passes for a green thumb in Iowa and what it takes to eak out a crop in Missouri are vastly different.  That inheritance might buy more acres in Missouri.  But, it won't  be any more productive the land it would buy in Iowa.

J Anders wrote:

Susan Pruitt wrote:
It sounds like you're just two people "shacking up" as we used to say in the 70's, lol    Traditionally marriage was necessary for procreation and survival.   Whatever one's moral beliefs are, sticking with a marriage that is NOT built on working together to achieve common goals is a prescription for disappointment and failure.

I believe that a goal requires a clear description and a COMMITMENT to achieving it through perseverance and perhaps sacrifice of short term pleasures, otherwise it's just a fantasy.

I believe that a goal without a STRATEGY will never be achieved

I believe that waiting for a financial windfall or depending on others (spouse, disability)  to achieve one's dreams is just wishful thinking, not a sound planning strategy that you have any control over.

I wonder if your wife is your "problem" or if it's your own lack of clarity and confidence, due to your hearing loss and perhaps even going further back.  Discouragement can lead to passivity and apathy, perhaps settling into depending on others to make your life right.   I wonder if disability payments and the prospect of an inheritance allows you to be passive about GOING for it!  Double dipping for disability requires you to run your business at a loss?  Is staying married to a working woman another strategy to maintain your income or because you love her or feel a moral responsibility to stay there?  As others have recommended - sit down with her and lay it all out.   If goals and strategies can't be articulated and written down then what is the point of staying married?   As others have recommended - sit down with her and lay it all out.   If goals and strategies can't be articulated and written down then what is the point of staying married?

I've been there off and on and pretty much settled on being a hermit on my dinky homestead for retirement.    Then I discovered how tedious that can be and realized I just gave up on life out of frustration over several of my character defects and advancing age.  But I've pulled myself out of that by studying people I admire and modeling them.   Whenever I get bogged down in negative thoughts about my own abilities, pointing figures at others as the reasons why I can't get where I want to be, I  just think about all the other people in the world who manage to be content and successful in their own way even with limitations.   And I've come to believe that I deserve better than what I've dished out for myself.   I use that as inspiration and simply grind it out with extreme self-discipline.   I've read a lot of self-help books and watched countless inspirational speakers on Youtube for strategic ways to take charge of my life just by changing the way I think.  Engage in the power of redirecting thoughts to the positive side and take ACTION rather than brooding.   Sometimes when I catch myself whining about someone or something, I catch myself and redirect by saying "don't think about that - what's the most important productive thing I can be doing right now?  and then I get busy accomplishing something - even if it's just going out and weeding for an hour to distract myself.  

what's the most important productive thing I can be doing right now?

Everything is figureoutable with the right commitment and discipline.     Maybe just writing a journal everyday will help clarify your thoughts.   Writing this post is a good first step and hopefully will open some doors of ideas :)

Tina Hillel wrote:You mentioned your mom being appalled by how much is spent within your marriage.  Think about why she even knows or is involved with your marital finances.  

When first married, we made numerous financial bad decisions on both sides.  My mother in law was inserting herself into our business and that definately made it hard for us to be a team together.  I felt like I was left out and that it was me against them.  Been married 27 years now.  One of our best rules has been not to discuss our money issues with others.  

If I misread your comment, I apologize.  Have been on that side of the issue, so it kinda jumpd out at me.  Could just be too twitchy about it🙄

Stacy Witscher wrote:Rob Lineberger - why would it be a long year? There isn't much difference between being separated and being divorced. Here in California, the only real difference between a legal separation and a divorce is with regards to remarriage. My ex and I were legally separated for about 5-6 years prior to us filing for divorce. In fact, the paperwork is identical, it's just a box to check for separation or divorce.

Bethany Dutch wrote:I’ll never put marriage on such a a pedestal again to the point of sacrificing my own mental health to continue in it.

Sarah- For the record I'm not single... but I was just wondering how have you stayed on the permaculture path? I can see why men gravitate to the permaculture path just because our culture has really made it an issue for white men to have "company work" so it is forcing them to reassess everything that they've ever known. However, for women, the future is (supposedly) bright and rosy and they have no problems getting college educated and finding a job. The programming is strong for women, that's for certain.

For myself... I'm both a white man AND I am hard of hearing. Which... might be the perfect combination. I grew up with no television in the house and my mom always listened to the radio which I couldn't understand anyway. Then when I was a teenager I got a computer and have been seeking truth ever since. I saw the shit hitting the fan around the time that I graduated high school and swore to never set myself up for failure on the part of others. To that end... I now live in a one bedroom house, repair all my own vehicles, have a large lot/garden that has something edible everywhere, and work as little as I need to. Of course... my wife works full time and likes to spend her money on treats trinkets and trips. I pay all the bills around here and take care of the household chores. I have attended a local community college for 3 years and do have a technical studies degree but they didn't like me much because I challenged all of their belief systems. The worst class was psychology! Oh what hookum.

Sarah Koster wrote:J, you wrote in another thread:

Sarah- For the record I'm not single... but I was just wondering how have you stayed on the permaculture path? I can see why men gravitate to the permaculture path just because our culture has really made it an issue for white men to have "company work" so it is forcing them to reassess everything that they've ever known. However, for women, the future is (supposedly) bright and rosy and they have no problems getting college educated and finding a job. The programming is strong for women, that's for certain.

For myself... I'm both a white man AND I am hard of hearing. Which... might be the perfect combination. I grew up with no television in the house and my mom always listened to the radio which I couldn't understand anyway. Then when I was a teenager I got a computer and have been seeking truth ever since. I saw the shit hitting the fan around the time that I graduated high school and swore to never set myself up for failure on the part of others. To that end... I now live in a one bedroom house, repair all my own vehicles, have a large lot/garden that has something edible everywhere, and work as little as I need to. Of course... my wife works full time and likes to spend her money on treats trinkets and trips. I pay all the bills around here and take care of the household chores. I have attended a local community college for 3 years and do have a technical studies degree but they didn't like me much because I challenged all of their belief systems. The worst class was psychology! Oh what hookum.

From my experience, A) there are more women interested in and involved with permaculture than there are men, and B) it is AT LEAST as difficult for women to find adequate employment as men, in my area. I have a harder time finding a job because most jobs available preferentially hire men, because they're taller and stronger and can do the work more efficiently. Most jobs available here are construction, truck driving, loading/unloading heavy stuff, roofing etc. so I've been seasonally employed in clothing warehouses and fast food.
I think I graduated college about the same time you graduated highschool, in 2008 right after tons of people lost their jobs. I couldn't even get a menial job because I was "overqualified." So just to be clear I have been turned down for many jobs simply because I have a college degree and am not a man. I think you're applying your personal situation as a rule of thumb when it is in fact the exception.
I struggle with severe depression and feelings of hopelessness, have never been able to get my own place, have been homeless, worked without pay, and at times kept in a room or apartment against my will. I do not agree with your assertion that for women in particular the future is rosy and bright. To me the future is a lot of work and a lot of tough decisions and overcoming obstacles. I think that you need to come to terms with your feelings on your own. No one else is responsible for them, not even your spouse. Don't force yourself and become resentful.

"How I have stayed on the permaculture path"...
It's never been a challenge for me, I've always struggled with the "standard" path of work for a comp'ny, pay bills and buy stuff, whilst imposing your will on nature. I played in mud holes as a little girl, built "houses" for toads which oddly look almost exactly like Sepp's animal shelters in miniature (my brother stood on them to squish them, so I learned to build them to withstand) and brought my mother bundles of "weeds" (wildflowers.) I spread seeds of "weeds" I liked and climbed trees. To me, the permaculture path is not a deviation. It is just being me, except being smart about it. That being said-- my food forest is scrawny and unproductive, I've never started a garden since I learned tilling washes away the topsoil, my last compost bin was full of giant maggots that turned into giant biting flies and I haven't stayed in one place long enough to raise any animals I can't get to market weight in five months. For me the struggle was coming to terms with the fact that the lifestyle I tried SO HARD to conform to that it had me writhing in spiritual agony, the "standard american" lifestlye, is indeed NOT for me. That what I dream of and desire is not only valid, but good. That being said, it's never a good idea to try to force your convictions and ideals on someone-- even if you really really like them and think they're sexy--- because it's going to blow up in your face when they want to hold fast to their own comfort instead, which is, by the way, their right. When you try to impose it on someone--- even something as awesome as permaculture-- you're really telling the other person that their feelings don't matter and aren't valid, and it's gonna piss them off and hurt their feelings and stuff.

Anyway I had a hard time figuring out what you're asking for, and I probably didn't hit the mark, but that's the best I can do.

Sarah Koster wrote:I actually grew up in the suburbs, and have spent most of my life living either in said suburb or in an urban environment. Also the majority of permies local to my area are either living in or active in an Eco-village which is very much urban. So I don't think city vs rural upbringing is the determining factor.

Lately I am mostly interested in non-fiction, instructional books, but if I get itchy to read some prose I'll definitely keep the possum book in mind. I'm assuming it's prose rather than instructional based on the name, forgive me if i'm wrong.
One thing I have realized is that most people, do not know their own heart. It is a mystery to them. They decide in their mind who they think they are, but in the living the truth comes out in what they do. We fool each other, but we fool ourselves more. When we look in the mirror we see only the masks of what our minds have made us out to be.
My female permie friends are mostly on the West Coast, even the ones who grew up here. This geographic area has an offensive charge towards women my age who have any imagination at all. And men my age for that matter, too. The ones I know who are happy here married early and dearly, have children and the means to comfortably support them. Those of us who weren't able to find love early on, or produce fruit of it, are basically squirming in a sewage pit of ennui and cognitive dissonance. The dreams we were spoon-fed as gospel truth as children is now regarded by mainstream society is now regarded as ridiculous fantasy. Our precious ideals and our zeal are now regarded as idiotic fairytales. What is there for those of our generation for whom tomorrow holds nothing? It is natural that some of us give in to the pressure, sell our hopes for convenience and tow the line that says "who we were born to be is an inconvenience, to be discarded"
For the barren, today can be used to make a better tomorrow, for somebody else's children. It's still worth it but it puts us face to face with the ugly truth that, we're a lot more selfish than we'd like to think. It feels hollow. As if somehow by having children, we'd be able to feel into the future to know whether it was good or not. As if by not having children, our existence, sentience, awareness will be cut short while that of others stretches onward into the ages yet to come. But why do we feel this way??? Is there any evidence that this is even true? But I think this is the emotion of all or most of people, who do not have children late in life.

One thing I have realized is that most people, do not know their own heart. It is a mystery to them. They decide in their mind who they think they are, but in the living the truth comes out in what they do. We fool each other, but we fool ourselves more. When we look in the mirror we see only the masks of what our minds have made us out to be.

I don't enjoy being told about a divorce for every damn thing that makes her mad though

Nicole Alderman wrote:

I don't enjoy being told about a divorce for every damn thing that makes her mad though

I remember when my husband and I were engaged, my parents (and I think our marriage counselor, as well) gave us this great rule: "Never say the divorce word, even as a joke." Just talking about a divorce, or even joking about one, sews seeds of discontent and fear. Your brain starts to entertain doubts, doubts that the other person will leave you, doubts that you should be with the, etc. etc. Today is my husband and my 11th anniversary. And, I've never said that word. I think refraining from using that word really is one of the best marriage advice tips I've been given.

I am so sorry that your wife keeps throwing it around. You said that your wife's father is a minister. Have you tried going to one of those marriage retreats that churches often have? Maybe hearing relationship advice from someone other than you might help? Maybe try to spin the retreat as something she'd want to go to...like the food they'll have available, or they have neat facilities with hot tubs or something.

I've honestly never had a chance to go to a marriage retreat, as we've always been too busy or poor, but I've heard good things. And, sometimes just being around people you and she can share experiences with, can really help. I think if my husband and I were where you and your wife are, we'd try to find a way to go to one. It sure sounds more fun than counseling, and she might agree to going to one, even if she doesn't want to go to counseling. A women's ministry at your church might also be a good support system for her.

Does she have PCOS (Polycystic ovary syndrome)? It can lead to depression, and she might be aiming her depression at you. I have PCOS, and I find that a more paleo diet helps not only with my related conditions, but also in stabilizing my emotions.

Sarah Koster wrote:
1)  One thing I have realized is that most people, do not know their own heart. It is a mystery to them. They decide in their mind who they think they are, but in the living the truth comes out in what they do. We fool each other, but we fool ourselves more. When we look in the mirror we see only the masks of what our minds have made us out to be.


2) For the barren, today can be used to make a better tomorrow, for somebody else's children. It's still worth it but it puts us face to face with the ugly truth that, we're a lot more selfish than we'd like to think. It feels hollow. As if somehow by having children, we'd be able to feel into the future to know whether it was good or not. As if by not having children, our existence, sentience, awareness will be cut short while that of others stretches onward into the ages yet to come. But why do we feel this way??? Is there any evidence that this is even true? But I think this is the emotion of all or most of people, who do not have children late in life.

If your marriage is irreparably broken, then that is a tragedy. Your vows are dust, and your word is void. This is a major blow to your individuality, even as it seems like you are regaining it. If you do separate, use it to become less. There is no human who can make you more. Divorce is a horrible schism in trust, and I hope you don't have to go through it. Most are due to financial issues and your situation seems so. At the end money is just a thing, like any other thing. Don't pretend control = money. Communication is the art of talking with each other not past each other.

I graduated high school in 2002....The initial question wasn't driven by my personal situation. Just looking through the forums and seeing who is posting and who is active, I just noticed a number of gentlemen around our age that seem to be active here but not so many ladies. Lots of older ladies here though.  

Yes.... she was diagnosed with that many years ago. She was gluten free for about 2 years then got off of it because the gluten quit bothering her. She still doesn't overeat bread though.

You guys have any kids yet?

Thank you for your perspective. I'm personally content. Always have been. One of my favorite poems is the one by Solzenar.... keep it posted by my computer.

My House is Small

My house is small

because my desires are too ...

Sarah- For the record I'm not single... but I was just wondering how have you stayed on the permaculture path? I can see why men gravitate to the permaculture path just because our culture has really made it an issue for white men to have "company work" so it is forcing them to reassess everything that they've ever known. However, for women, the future is (supposedly) bright and rosy and they have no problems getting college educated and finding a job. The programming is strong for women, that's for certain.

Odd. I read the OP, then scrolled down without reading other replies. Ironically, I stopped on Bethany's post, and read it. I also happen to agree with her post.

I am a South'rn boy. I was born and grew up in Gawga. Years later, I moved to Southeast Asia, and have been here ever since. I live in a small farm of 2 hectares (~5 acres). We raise a bit of livestock and grow rice and sesame. We live in a rural part of the province where almost nothing exists, aside from farms.

Personally, I feel people need to be with someone who has similar interests. I firmly believe that people who have very little in common, will ultimately part ways. I happen to be into self-sustainability and prepping. Of course, anyone who lives in this country can tell you, every day life here is self-sustainability and prepping. For example, you never know when the power is going to dip, or drop out completely, or for how long. (This prepper has both solar and back up generator power. So, let the mains drop out whenever they wish.)

Enough about me and on my tangent. Sorry.

J.Anders,

I think you have been married for a number of years? If she has been this way from the beginning, I don't see her changing anytime soon (READ: never). I'm not a huge believer in "counseling". I don't think a counselor will know more about your situation, than someone who has lived likewise. I have.

If she has no power within her to save for your future, when that inheritance is sorted - do NOT let her get her hands on it. If you do, it will be gone like a shot. In fact - I may get pummeled by others here, but keep her from even learning of this happening, if at all possible.

You are 35. You still have time to start over with someone new. I just hope, for your sake, the divorce laws are not against you, there.

Man, you really do need someone who has similar goals in life, to be with. For some reason, I think you already know that. Hey, I'm 52. If I were with someone at this point in my life, who didn't want to travel down a similar path, I would rather go it alone.

Oh, you happened to bring it up. If you don't mind, how do you owe a friend $2,000 USD, if you were there helping HIM? (If you do not wish to reply to this, I completely understand.)

Paul Petrea wrote:Something else that just came to mind.

Like I said, I'm 52. I was fortunate enough to retire at a fairly young age, about as old as you are now. I sold a business that was dedicated to making other people happy - shippers, consignees, employees, everyone but me. After I liquidated everything and retired, I decided I was going to be happy from then on out. Life is too danged short not to be. I was going to find someone who wanted to be happy with me. If not, happy trails, no harm, no foul. I would either be happy alone, or with someone who had similar interests. Again, life is too short not to be happy, man.

You do what you have to, in order to achieve that goal for yourself.

Travis Johnson wrote: I am wondering if the wife ever had complete bloodwork testing?

I was in a serious funk until I had a chainsaw accident and found out I had cancer of my Thyroid. It may not be as dramatic as having cancer, but a simple non-cancerous problem with the Endocrine system can throw moods way out of whack, blood sugar levels, hormones, EVERYTHING. I mean everything!!

Looking back it seems obvious including the fist sized lump inside my neck, but the problem developed so slow, everyone missed it. I am still not 100% Travis, but I am better.

Angelika Maier wrote: Just another thought: Obviously your wife is bringing the money home and holds a regular job. So probably she thinks she deserves something in return, and this is right. Handymen at least around here make a good living, so you should be able to make some money. Maybe you should review your tool-spending. You don't need every tool available. The more you spend on maybe unnecessary tools the less likely your wife will be to save money. Do you talk about purchases of tools before or do you simply go and buy? It would really piss me off if I would have to work full time whilst my husband is handyman and doesn't make anything at all but spends a fortune on tools. There are always two sides of a story. But maybe I am wrong and you are just buying the basics,.....

Angelika Maier wrote: I can tell you what worked for me: First, you figure out your shortcomings in your relationship. Don't focus on your partner, because you can't change your partner the only person you can change is yourself. SEcond, set yourself a timeframe - it has to be reasonable, two weeks is not enough try for several months. During this time, you try to do everything you can do on your side. Try to be the perfect you (to and extend). Then when the set date is reached figure out if anything has changed, if your relationship is better now. If not leave it. If it has changed to a degree but not enough try a bit more. But ultimately you have to set  a time when enough is enough. It worked for me I was very clear that nothing will change and left. I did not look back a second. It is very important that you don't talk with your partner about that ultimatum because ultimatums do not work only in the way described. During that time you can discuss the issues but don't overdiscuss!

Nicole Alderman wrote:  I thought I'd answer this one, too. I'm one of the people that grew up loving to play in the woods and dig in the rocks. I love reading fantasy, dystopian novels, and historical fiction. I wanted to live a simple life in a cabin in the woods. I wanted to be prepared in case of an end of society or other disaster (see thread here for a bit about that) I At the time, I never thought of having ducks and a garden, or preserving food, and those came about from seeing Joel Salatin of Polyface Farms in the documentary Food.Inc (it was free on Hulu). That was, I think, my first encounter with anything like permaculture, and what got me researching and discovering it. The only hard part to "staying the path of permaculture" is not stress-buying (I learned the trait from my husband, as I used to HATE shopping, but I like shopping with him as a way of escaping the house and our problems...which makes me wonder, maybe there's something in your house--maybe it's messy or things that need to be done---that your wife can't muster the energy to fix, and makes her want to escape to the city/shopping/eating out?). It's also hard continually persuading my husband that, no, we really don't need this or that, and persuading both of us that we don't need to spend tons of money on more things for the kids. That's hard. Most parents want their kids to be able to have everything...even when  less really is more when it comes to toys and experiences.  

J Anders wrote:Of course I never got paid for cleaning out his house or storing his stuff for 2 yrs. He didn't come get the rest of his stuff for 2+ years.

J Anders wrote:If she doesn't pop out a kid very soon that might be a real game changer for her. She's already stressing out over not having kids and I've mentioned many of the things in this thread to her and it all goes back to taking metformin instead of lifestyle changes.

J Anders wrote:If you have read my other posts on other forums here you'd probably see some of the ideas I've got- have a thread in the cottage forum.

Paul Petrea wrote:

J Anders wrote:Of course I never got paid for cleaning out his house or storing his stuff for 2 yrs. He didn't come get the rest of his stuff for 2+ years.

I'd say that makes you even.

Paul Petrea wrote:

J Anders wrote:If she doesn't pop out a kid very soon that might be a real game changer for her. She's already stressing out over not having kids and I've mentioned many of the things in this thread to her and it all goes back to taking metformin instead of lifestyle changes.

Brother, no matter what, please don't let her get pregnant until / unless you know your relationship is going in a positive direction. (I'm not talkin' weeks or months here, either.) Too many children today, come from split homes.

Paul Petrea wrote:

J Anders wrote:If you have read my other posts on other forums here you'd probably see some of the ideas I've got- have a thread in the cottage forum.

No. I'm pretty new. This is the first thread of yours that I have seen. And, the first thread, I believe, started by another member, that I have actually posted in. I will try to locate the thread, though. Still getting accustomed to this particular forum software.

EDIT: Actually, I see I joined this forum in December of 2013. I have only just become active on it, though. I seem to be doing that a lot. That is, I join a forum, then visit it a long time, before actually becoming active and posting on it.

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Thank you for sharing with me, and other here. I am very sorry to hear of these issues. I hope and pray they get sorted for you, to your satisfaction.

J Anders wrote:

Travis Johnson wrote:

I went to look at your linked thread "you know you're a permie when...." and laughed when I saw "your garden has weeds and you don't care". Reminds me that I do need to go get some of them under control but I really don't give a crap about them most of the time.

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Meh. When your potatos are ready to dig then you can run a lawn mower across the lot of them. The weeds will reduce your yield a bit, but, meh.

Congrats to your wife for the weight that she has lost!

J Anders wrote:I don't want to look back in 5 years and say that I should have flipped houses instead of blowing the money on things she wants.

J Anders wrote:I live in a small town in the midwest. Small 1 bedroom house 2.5 car garages.

Whole place is basically permaculture, 7 fruit trees, 40x40 garden that I use a full complement of david bradley implements on, strawberry patch and asparagus patch. Lot is 150x60.

I like what we've got here. If I could just add 5 acres onto it I'd personally be happy. However.... my wife doesn't help with the garden much at all nor does she seem to want to conserve money at all. We go out to eat way too much and rarely save any money. Some of that is my fault because I do get disability for being severely hard of hearing and run a small (nearly negative cash flow by design) handyman business. All my profits are reinvested in tools and the mileage deduction is real nice. My wife is a former city girl and I grew up in a small town so now I've seen that we really have opposite views on life. I'd be happy staying at home, drinking mint tea and singing kumbaya all day and she likes to go to the city that is 60 miles away just for a sonic chili dog. We do have a prius so it's not that expensive to do it... just the whole mindset annoys me. Money in the bank = lets go have fun/go shopping.... no planning for the future at all and no interest in going to the park just to go for walks and such. She does work a full-time job with crazy hours, lots of shifts 3-11 which is hard for me as I normally do handyman work 9-5. She SAYS she loves having a garden and all that jazz but I get no SUPPORT. If I want something preserved I have to do everything all by myself.

I was born and raised 30 miles from where we live now.... but I'm also fed up with living in the middle of corn and beans that gets sprayed every year. I personally have lived in the Ozarks for 3 months in a camper remodeling a friend's house.... and my wife and I spent a week on vacation at my friend's house staying in a hotel. Now the friend is mad at me because he feels that I owe him $2000 so we haven't talked in a few years but I'd like to pay it eventually. My wife doesn't want anything to do with said friend and would rather buy our own place in the Ozarks. But.... I don't want to buy a place with her when she doesn't do very much around the place we've got now and talks about D. all the time.

I'll be inheriting a nice sum of money- not enough to pay cash for a $150K acreage but enough to really make a dent in the purchase price and could pay cash for the right place. I don't think I'd mind living in rugged conditions for awhile but I'm pretty sure my wife has no interest in that. We have no kids and I don't see them anywhere in the future due to my wife's health.

Hopefully you can read between the lines and see what I'm getting at. Just feeling really discouraged. I've looked forward to this inheritance for 15 years now and now that it's almost time to get it I'm quite torn on what to do. So hard to do something when I feel like I'm being sabotaged by my wife who just sees "money to spend" while I see a potential way to get myself set up for life. We do have $4K in cc that should be paid off that we don't seem to be able to pay off for over 5 years as well, that's $120 every month. What I'd like is support in setting up the handyman business and going out to flip houses until we have enough cash to buy a $150K acreage but I don't see my wife supporting that idea at this point. She'd like me to buy her a new minivan for $5K.... we don't need a minivan at this point in time. Do I give her a D and find someone else who has more financial skills and common sense... or what? I don't want to look back in 5 years and say that I should have flipped houses instead of blowing the money on things she wants.

So hard when it feels like I'm doing everything by myself when a good marriage should be about common goals and dreams. I hate to give her a D but the fact of the matter even spiritually we are quite distant as she has very little interest in in-depth discussion of spiritual topics. Which is ironic as she claims she loves Revelation and took a class on it in school, but has never discussed it with me to any length. I grew up Ind. Baptist and she grew up the daughter of a Wesleyan minister so you'd think we have something to talk about but she has no interest in discussing. I spend most of my time on the computer researching and she spends most of her time watching various TV shows that I try to tell her (why) they are bad to watch but she has no interest in listening. The other night she was watching America's Got Talent with that damn demon that came on... I did NOT appreciate that at all. It's been over 7 years and I'm nearly 35 now.

Any thoughts?

Aurora House wrote:Addition to above: this morning hubby has spent all his waking time playing computer games. I have in addition to time here on premises moved my rabbit tractor worked on my container garden on the deck and delt with a load of laundry.
He realized it is lunch time, and while polling for what to make for lunch ordered our son to help move the deck table. I've spent all week unearthing our Deck furniture from storage in our sunroom. I had gotten the chairs on the deck but knew that the path wasn't big enough to move the table yet. In the time it took me to hit send and get over there to help the 2 of them had bull in China shop gotten the table out. I grabbed a broom to sweep out the empty space he told me to stop and started ranting about how the only dirty spots on the deck are where My plants are and how I'm destroying the house with my messes. If the phone hadn't rung I'm sure I'd still be in that rant. Phone is his parents, they need cream I pointed out cream while he tells them he doesn't know how old it is 'cause I always over buy. I run cream to them and when I get back home he greeted me with I'm not cooking you a burger because you never finish them. Nevermind that he brought a year ago that we could split a burger so every time he cooks burgers I ask for half.
I've been posting every sentence because he keeps adding a nother sentence to his rant as I'm posting this. I have to devote my full attention to him or I'm being rude or not listening. I have to justify everything past him or I'm making unilateral decisions for selfish reasons.

Aurora House wrote: hour long rants of how stupid/fat/lazy/ selfish I am that I have spent decades telling him don't work.