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a paul wheaton community

 
Posts: 137
Location: Ottawa, Canada -- Zone 4b/5a
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Max Tanner wrote:Paul,
why so close to the airport? 30 min or even 1 hr, seem so close for so many reasons.

That is the only thing I do not understand in this thread and land search issues. For me, my thinking this is just too close to the airport and just too close to other so called civilization types. They tend to build up around the airports, thus leaving you in time to the mercy of the local authorities. Farms especially non-traditional farms do not do well in those situations.



Land that close to an airport is likely to be close to a large enough city which makes land more valuable. If cost is an issue or concern, you may have to look a little further.

Kris
 
Posts: 37
Location: Mukilteo, Washington
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I'd love to try this. I believe it would be great to be part of this kind of community. Having listened to many of the podcasts I believe that I could get along with Paul and his decisions.

I'm currently unemployed so changing my location now would be good. I will be in Denver until after the first of the year.

Please let me know what your plans are. How can I help? What would you expect for a new member of your community? When do you believe you will be ready to go?
 
Posts: 13
Location: Boise, Idaho
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Hey Paul,

I just finished listening to several of your podcasts regarding intentional communities and college education.

I'm 20, just got my PDC, and have plans to do an internship on an organic farm next year. Afterwards, I plan on working on a farm that's primarily practicing permaculture.

I can't tell from the thread whether or not you've found a farm yet, but I'd be very interested in interning and being a nomadic youth So, call me an 8.

- Michael
 
master steward
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I have a property picked out, but am struggling to get the paperwork done. Currently in the owner's court to sign the buy/sell.
 
Michael Sieler
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Location: Boise, Idaho
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That's fantastic news, besides the paperwork stuff...

Btw, I forgot to mention that I can speak German. So, if you need a translator when Sepp visits your new farm, I'll sprechen some Deutsch for ya
 
master steward
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paul wheaton wrote:I have a property picked out, but am struggling to get the paperwork done. Currently in the owner's court to sign the buy/sell.





Okay, I'll go public, too: I'm a 10 (of course), though I have some parenting, business and other details to work out first.
 
Posts: 47
Location: Italy-Slovenia Border Karst
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Victor Cosby wrote:Blessings y'all,

Some intentional communities, transition towns, and cooperative leaning organizations implementing social permaculture are adopting Sociocracy, aka Dynamic Governance or DSG (Dynamic Self Governance), guided by values like Transparency, Consent, and Equal Value (with different roles), and the practice of "Paramount Objection". I'm looking for workshops in this approach because it ties into a film project on democracy I've been planning, so if anyone has recommendations, please hit me with 'em.

For me, it may have to be with a smaller group on a smaller plot of land to begin with. Then once we build something we tweak together and come up with something can be proud of and want to share, we would open it up to others to help us continue and evolve the community. After all, from my limited but growing understanding, this is how Mother Nature tends to work (species and individuals that overshoot eventually get slapped down hard)... and She's done a pretty good job so far. In the end I think I want to follow Her and the land's intention.

Larger systems (like the honey bee and ants?) seem to require some form of tyranny and totalitarianism (overt, managed or inverted -- see Sheldon Wolin's "Democracy, INC.") but the queen will always be replaced by her workers and drones when she wears out, or new swarms will develop when things get out of hand.

Perhaps federating a larger community into smaller ones might be something to consider? I believe this is what Damanhur in Italy does. I think they call them nucleos, and they each have their own particular leanings, styles, and goals. I need to look into this further as a friend spent last summer there and has been blogging about his experience.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We agree with you victor, a whole-systems approach is something that can be seen in communities such as Auroville, where some of us have lived. Its also true that while retaining individual perspectives, a common spiritual intention can certainly work wonders. As social beings, the magic element is 'love' that can actually bind lives and goals together, in time. Perhaps, this is the basis of real-sharing...being to being, just like paul says 'human'.
Certainly small nuclei groups work well like you said. However, in Italy Damnhur has several residents and '0' economy is not practiced as in Auroville. Large communities are able to achieve economic self-sufficiency more easily.
In any case, the bottom line is Paul must be a very 'loved' landlord to succeed! , in bocca lupo!, like we say in Italy ( wolf in your mouth )
Group



 
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I'm interested....about a 7.

Will be interesting to see who is interested, and how everyone meshes....
The beauty of something like this is a shared dream....we each bring our own strengths, wishes and dreams to the table.


j.lee
 
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Location: SW Michigan
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Paul, sounds like it is a go. Good luck.
 
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This is a situation where I am 100% in charge. You have no official vote. The only way you get to have things that you want is by persuading me. Yes, there's permaculture (what I call permaculture).



We have 80 acres of land, improvements, and a plan for our permaculture community. We are taking applications. The community will be governed very much as Pauls.

We pay for everything except what people brings with them. If they leave the land, they take every thing they brought with them. If we have paid for it; it stays on the land, they only provided the labor.

For more details go to A permaculture community in Oregon

Our plan is not designed to be a persons ultimate permaculture location, it may be. But it can give a person time to find a location, arrange finances, and learn about permaculture while they are acquiring their ultimate location.
 
Posts: 9
Location: Austria (Zone 5)
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it definitely sounds interesting. as of now I couldn't imagine commiting to it for a long time, but I'd consider living there for a year or so, if possible. this makes me about a 6. especially since the climate is rather similar to Austrian climate, or so I believe.
 
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My family and I are very interested. 9.32 on our scale.
 
steward
Posts: 4598
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Paul, any news on your land search ?
 
paul wheaton
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I showed up to closing and they thought it would be gobs of fun to change the documents so they could get more candy. I then offered to do the closing three days later, but I would make sure that the documents did not change. They refused. Creepy.

Looking again.
 
gardener
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Paul
I sometimes wonder what the real reason is, as to why it's as illegal to kill a vulture as an eagle. Could be very conventient........ kidding, really just kidding....
Obviously there's something much better waiting for you!
M
 
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paul wheaton wrote:Here is a lame drawing of something in my head.

If I have exactly one main house with, say, eight people in it, then the reddish stuff is the house, the dark green is zone 1 and the light green is zone 2.

And if I have that same thing, but have a few eco building spread out, each with a person that manages that plot, then it looks more like the second drawing.

Some folks will be keen on the main house and some will be keen on the smaller houses.

looks perfect

 
Posts: 18
Location: Romania
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how would you go about selecting amongst people who show interest in this kind of thing (I'm assuming there will be more then you could accommodate)?
how do you deal with ownership? if someone builds a house on this property, do they own it? if so, when they leave what happens (kind of hard to take it with them)?

we are currently in a similar position and initial signs of community are appearing. we believe community is precious (and key to sustainability) ... but it is still mostly a mystery to us.
we too are leaning towards a model where we have last say about what can or can't be done on/to the property ... stewardship of the land defines our "leadership rights"
 
Posts: 112
Location: Cave Junction, Oregon
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I like your little drawing also Paul. I have envisioned the very same layout in my minds eye! no joking! I see this is an old thread..so I'm sure the vision has matured some. I have been thinking about a retirement homestead community where the oldies buy/pay off the property and the youngies work the land as trade off. My number is 9 my husband i dunno prob 0 he's in love with where we live. I liked your independent / consensus / dictator hybrid honestly..I have been in MANY communes ..at some point some one has to jump in and just say.. this is how we are going to do it. I actually do trust your sensibilities Paul and I'll bet you end up with one hell of a wonderful commune someday. :beerchug: cheers!
 
Posts: 605
Location: SE Ohio
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paul wheaton wrote:This is sort of like a survey.

The question is:  Hey, I have a big gob of land, and I have room for you.  Wanna come be part of my community?  This is a situation where I am 100% in charge.  You have no official vote.  The only way you get to have things that you want is by persuading me.  Yes, there's permaculture (what I call permaculture).  You can rent a wofati.  you can build your own wofati.  You can rent a room in a community wofati.   You can build another eco style of eco building if you convince me to give the green light.

If your answer is "no", "hell no", "never", "probably not", etc. then leave no response.

For the rest of you I want you to pick a number from 1 to 10.  

The values of 0 to 0.99 are for all of the "no" responses.

The values of 1.00 to 10.00 are where 1.00 is "yeah, I could see that ... hypothetically ... probably ... I think that could work. I would want to get more details before comitting and I would have to think about it and sleep on it for a year or so ..."  and 10.0 is "give me the word and I'll be on a bus in an hour."

I suspect that for every response in the range of 1 to 10 there were a thousand people that would be in the range of 0.00 to 0.99.  

But I don't need to find a hundred thousand people that would suffer under my tyranny.  I want to make the point that there could be 10,000 different communities set up like this.  I would manage one.  And, yes, I would call it a community even though there is no consensus.  Some folks might like one of the other 9,999.  And I would just need a dozen or so that would groove on mine.  A dozen people that would think that being a peasant in my fiefdom has the potential of a life better than ... well ...  living conventionally ... or living in an consensus based IC ... or maybe whatever they are doing now.

So this is an experiment of sorts.  Is there one person?  Might there be a dozen people?

Wanna come be part of my community?



hm... i think i'm a 8 or 9.

would people have their own spaces (like yard areas for personal gardens?) and be able to have their own animal herds?
or would it be more of a ginormous family community and this area has these families and they are into goats, that area has these families and they are into rabbits, etc?

personally i have 8 goats (milk and meat), 10 adult breeder rabbits (meat and manure), and 8 guinea pigs (for meat and manure). i would want to be able to bring them but i dont want to just donate them like a huge experiment for everyone to play with. though i would love sharing what i know and making them more permiculture friendly. (which i cant do alone on family's land).
i know my animals and i have many years of goat experience and working on my rabbit and guinea pig experience ( Paul, if you see this, i have a thread on my guinea pigs in case you havent seen. i know you had said interest in it several times in podcasts and things).

i love the whole community idea but i also need my little patch of "i did this and these are my critters".
 
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FNG here. Google and a Diana Leafe Christian post got me here, and now you're stuck with me until Paul kicks my ass out. I love this little virtual community.

I've been evolving my own little (physical) community model in my head for a number of years now, and am finally getting the concept to the point that I may actually do something with it in the real world. So that's what attracted me immediately upon visiting here to the Paul's Farm corner of the forum. And on discovering that little corner, one of the first questions that arose is What the Hell is a Wofati?

Back to Google and I found http://www.richsoil.com/wofati.jsp. I didn't recognize Mike Oehler's name at first but when I saw the first line drawing of a wofati, I immediately recognized what it was. I can't believe I'd forgotten about the $50 and Up Underground House Book. It must be about 25 years since I've seen that book, but it loved it so much I can still picture some of the images. One in particular was a drawing of a woman at the stove holding a frying pan, and Mike's story that accompanied the picture had me laughing so hard I nearly peed myself. I lost all of my books in a house fire in the mid 90's, and I don't think I ever replaced that one. I'm ordering a new copy today!

Wofati! Brilliant! My community concept just evolved again!
 
paul wheaton
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how would you go about selecting amongst people who show interest in this kind of thing



I think the first pass is going to be from those that have listened to 200 podcasts. Not only do they have a lot of information for doing this, but they will also have a pretty good idea if they can tolerate being under my tyranny.

how do you deal with ownership? if someone builds a house on this property, do they own it?



I think this is going to change a lot from person-to-person. But nobody will own a house on my property besides me. At the same time, there is no way for me to live in seven houses simultaneously. And leaving six houses empty is foolish.

I know that there are people that have arranged that if they build a tiny house on a property, they get one or two years of free rent.

At the same time, some people attempt to build something, get in over their heads, need others to finish and then say "i built this, therefore ...".

Even more: sometimes some people change and become downright icky.

So I don't have a really clear and obvious path here. I like to think people will come to the land, work hard, stick around for decades and all is smooth. At the same time, people can be so human ....

would people have their own spaces (like yard areas for personal gardens?) and be able to have their own animal herds?



I think there will be some people with their own gardens (expressing their artisanal visions in seed and soil). And there will be some people that prefer to be part of the greater garden vision. And there will be some people that aren't into gardening.

I suspect that there will be some community herds and some private herds.
 
Posts: 142
Location: Missoula, Montana (zone 4)
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10 - And that is after giving it a lot of thought. My number one reason for being so certain is because I trust in your ability to lead a group of Permies successfully. My only question is will my "Paul Wheaton as Che' Guevara" T-shirt arrive by mail or will it be given to me upon my arrival? I love everything about permaculture. Mark Shepard's well reasoned hope in the American Chestnut ability replace corn as mast for livestock sold me on the idea. Then I came across your site and the floodgates of information opened. Rocket Mass Heaters, Hugelkultur, the The Land Institute's obsession with growing grains in the wrong direction and all year long. I love it all! Thank you Paul for starting this site. And thanks to all the people who keep it running day to day. If you ever need any help I'd love to volunteer.
Viva El Presidente Wheaton!
Viva La Permies!
 
paul wheaton
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I am under contract on 200 acres. Closing is scheduled for may 31. This is bare land.

And the time has come to talk about people REALLY coming to this land. Discussion of that is here: http://www.permies.com/t/23793/paul-wheaton-farm/month
 
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paul wheaton wrote:

I think there will be some people with their own gardens (expressing their artisanal visions in seed and soil). And there will be some people that prefer to be part of the greater garden vision. And there will be some people that aren't into gardening.



Started at a 1.5/2, rapidly moving up.
 
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Hello Paul,

So Id like to first say congratulations on finally finding a place! I know youve been searching high and low for the right property!

Ive been a lurker around here for about a year now. Ive got a pretty long story to how I got to where I am but more or less I was like you, already doing permaculture stuff and I didnt even know what it was called until your videos kept coming up for me on youtube and I went to permies.com lol.

I have a partner, weve been together for 7 years so were very stable and get along. We talked about this last night and we would consider coming out and staying for a year or two, maybe longer if we enjoyed it. But our goal would be to meet like minded people (I have yet to meet 1 person that knows what permaculture even is outside of online) and to get some great ideas from this to take away and redo them on our land. I learn much much better with hands on experience!

We do have some helpful things that we could bring with us to use while were there, Weve got a composting toilet (separates pee from poo) Weve also got a complete setup for high speed 4G wireless internet and a good signal booster if there is poor cell service (Were cell phone technicians so we know the ropes with that stuff) We have lots more that we could offer up too, as long as it would fit in the cars then I can bring it with us.

We would prob be at an 9.0 on your scale. The only reason why its not a 10 is because we dont have final say, but thats okay with me because we have final say when we come back to our land

But if youd like to talk more let me know, we would be honored to join you on this awesome adventure!!

Thanks Paul!! (sorry for the double post)
 
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I would be a 10 on the idea. But do not go to USA. The ying yangs at the border crossing are not worth the stress.

Way to go on the idea Paul. I joined your site as I am planning the same thing way up in Canada north of North Bay, On.

Saving up for 100 acres as it will just be me for a while. I tried it out with 14 acres and it was too small and in no time had bad neighbours.

My current base camp is in Niagara Falls where I finally got rid of the criminal gas company, cable jems, and no more cell/home phone. I am down to free tv, free email, and free wifi. The only bills are Mort, Insurance and the hydro and water.

I enjoyed your experiments with electric heat. The the rocket mass heater is a true jewel going to build one this summer inside my home. I have a five year plan to pay off my truck and solar/wind and pump equipment that I am storing up in the garage.

Way to go all. Back to nature for this guy. Today's society is a total failure, so I will start my own country. Bobville.





 
paul wheaton
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Sam,

Have the two of you listened to my podcasts?

If so, that means that this would not simply be a leap into the wild. The two of you know me pretty well and you know what sort of projects will be going on. And you know how things will be run. So you know what you would be getting into.

If you have listened to my podcasts, then my plans are now that there will be two cell savvy guys showing up shortly after closing.

 
Sam Tainer
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Hi Paul,

We have listened to a majority of your podcasts so we know what we would be getting into. I was actually going to ask you a question then I logged on and saw that you had posted some rules. There is one rule that I just could not comply with. I respect your rules and I understand the reasons behind them. Im glad you have 2 phone guys coming already, never underestimate the power of onsite tech support haha!

I cant wait to see what you do with this property! Best wishes,

Sam
 
Miles Flansburg
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So I just reread the whole thread. Counted heads.

There were 7 in the ten range.

10 in the 8 to 9 range.

10 in the 6 to 8 range.

6 in the 4 to 6 range.

Some have only posted a few times and may not still be on the forums?

It seemed to me that most of the folks in the 4 to 9 range were looking for more information to make them feel better about moving. Some would like to see the place and meet Paul and others. Some had specific requests for living conditions. Some would be transient visitors.

So if you were an 8 to 10 person it might be good for Paul to hear from you again on this thread and let him know what your questions are. Maybe give him more info on your skill set. Etc.
 
Beverly Temmer
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I'm an 8. I'd love to come but I wonder about many things. I'd like more detail and I'm looking at a minimalist life style. There would be travel for me to see my grandchildren as well.

I've listened to many of your podcasts and seen many of your videos. I could live with your rules.

 
steward
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Hey Sam, I think Paul was hoping that you and your partner would be the two cell savvy guys, given that you have listened to his podcasts.

I don't think he has an alternative pair waiting in the wings.

I'm curious: which one rule is a problem for you? Can you share that?
 
Julia Winter
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So, have any of the folks who posted to this thread made it out to Montana? I visited for just a couple of days, near the end of a 9 day trip fro m Wisconsin to Oregon. It's beautiful land, if you like mountains with lots of conifers. Huge opportunity awaits those willing and able to invest their time and energy.

Posting this should send out an email to most of the people who posted earlier, right?
 
steward
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Julia Winter wrote:

Posting this should send out an email to most of the people who posted earlier, right?



If most of the people have enabled mail notifications either for this thread or in their profile, then yes.
 
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