Bear proof composting for a community of 20

Hi. I'm new.

We are an off grid community of between 10 and 25 people varying through the year.

We're in the rural North, pine forest, bear country.

We haven't composted our kitchen waste as it is a potential bear attractor. Instead we take it in with the recycling and it gets landfilled.

I think it's a waste, and as far as I know it's possible to compost without attracting bears.

Thing is I've never done it. And i have some questions if you kind people will help me. For example,

- What's the best system. Just a pile on the ground? Buy a bearproof composter? How do I make sure the composter is big enough to handle all of our waste?

- how do I get the compost started? Will it stink initially? (attract bears?)

- any other suggestions for this situation? (Most compost systems are for small households and we would be doing it for a lot of people so I suspect there are some things that we will have to do differently.

Info:
It's COLD here in winter, - 30 with snow for long stretches.
We don't have livestock, probly won't be getting any soon.
At peak, we generate roughly 5 or 6 5-gal buckets of kitchen waste a week. We almost never eat meat.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Phew! That's a tough one, Joe.

Greetings from the Great White North, where composting is a 5-6 month activity during the year. The rest of the time it is frozen solid, though ensuring adequate moisture in fall helps to mechanically break down tough materials through freeze-thaw.

Greetings also, from a solo wilderness backpacker who for years practiced clean-camp bear discipline like his life depended on it.

On the one hand, I hate to see that all that fine veggie material wasted, especially if it's being landfilled.

On the other hand, a bear never, ever forgets a food source. I get the impression that you would not be comfortable shooting (and perhaps eating) a bear that becomes a significant safety hazard.

My big-picture idea is that the goal is to deny the bear a meal. With that as the starting point, let me toss around some random ideas. Keep in mind they're probably worth what you paid for them, or probably less  :

- Dilution: if you have an area where you are trying to build good soil, could it be thoroughly mixed in and composted in place? If there is no concentrated food source, it may be less attractive to a bear. He's focused on getting calories efficiently.

- Distancing: it it possible to try compost experiments miles away from your location, and monitor the results?

- Going anaerobic in containers: It's disgusting, smelly, nasty. I honestly don't know if bears would be attracted to the strong smell, but perhaps it doesn't present an attractive meal. Then again, bear brain is not the same as people brain.

My 2 cents. Best of luck!

Looking into it further, it seems that going anaerobic is what you definitely DO NOT want to do. Strong smells of any kind are bear attractants, including rotting fruit. The advice I'm finding is to go heavy on the brown matter and keep the pile well oxygenated to prevent odours.

I would be cautious about eggshells too. when I open my composters, the dogs seek them out even after they've been in there for 2 years.

I'm not sure what sort of composter would be bear-proof. They break into cabins with locked doors. It would have to be built like a tank.

You might consider looking into Bokashi.  Here are a couple of threads that might help.

https://permies.com/t/78784/Bokashi-Composting

https://permies.com/t/137408/Quickest-Easiest-bokashi-home-Experiences

Welcome, Joe.
I think if you were to use bokashi you would have to do it all inside your buildings. Which is easily possible. Use buckets with taps, you could dump the runoff outside on beds or potentially save it for other types of active fermentation (I use it with coffee grounds to make a Fetid Swamp Water type thing that gets put on the plants). Then the full buckets, if you have the foresight to fill large bins half full with dirt, could get "buried" in these dirt-filled bins. I've read that theoretically after a time these turn into nice compost, which can then be used in your garden when it turns warm, assuming the stuff does rot down. It might take a long time, quite honestly (especially in the cold), and you might end up with a lot of bins. But that might be a possibility for you.
I can tell you that the bokashi that I bury after the barrels are full and fermented does attract cats and rats, and if there were bears I have no doubt they would be here. But I think the ability to do bokashi inside makes it an attractive alternative. Maybe acquiring some rabbits, if that is feasible, could make a serious impact on your waste quantities before they enter the waste stream and produce some nice fertilizer to boot.

Otherwise, I think composting somewhere far away might be the best option, but then you run the risk of having permanent bear residents at the "dump", not sure how that would work for you and your community.

Worm composting inside a building? or even standard composting inside a building (with ventilation)

Skandi Rogers wrote:Worm composting inside a building? or even standard composting inside a building (with ventilation)

Respectfully, this is no small undertaking.

Given the climate, it would need to be inside a well-heated building.

10-25 people, mostly vegetarian, would generate large amounts of compostable material.

Don't misunderstand, I like the idea. But the logistics of implementing this in a practical way are pretty huge.

It occurs to me that we haven't factored bear hibernation into the mix. Thoughts?

Edit: When bears hibernate, outdoor compost piles also hibernate. But maybe there's a hidden option somewhere?

I say don't fight a losing battle. Bears can smell food from a ridiculous distance away (20 miles?). Skip composting altogether.

Rabbits were touched on...but I think they or other "scrap eaters" are the solution - turn the green waste into manure. Guinea pigs would be another rodent that could be used.

BUT I think maybe a few goats (chickens?) would be ideal, they seem to eat everything, produce milk, and could be used on the homestead or hired out for brush/invasive plant control.

This is an alternative option to solve the organic waste issue and avoid the landfill. Perhaps there are others, aside from composting.

I agree it's important to exercise shrewd judgement. A losing battle? Maybe. And yet a search reveals many municipalities in bear country that advocate composting as long as it's done thoughtfully. Bird feeders and fruit trees seem to be a larger concern.

Goats or pigs present an interesting approach. Keeping livestock in very cold climates is a pretty big commitment, though. I grew up with it. Far from impossible, but not a trivial business. I don't know if it fits with the OP's vision for their community.

If the OP had a neighbour with goats/pigs/chickens, it could be the basis of a trading relationship. Just a thought.

First of all, I’d like to share my opinion that “bear proof” as a physical security concept is pretty much impossible.

That said, my mom always had an active compost pile in bear country and it never attracted a bear.

Depending on your circumstances, something as simple as a robust outside-living dog might be all the deterrance you need. Black bears will only rarely come into the territory of an active dog. Grizzly bears, on the other hand, do not have any fucks to give.

I wonder how remote and how much land you have? Also, are there existing problem bears, used to being fed from humans/human trash?

Most of the  remote places I have visited incinerate their trash. Incinerators are usually kept at least a km from any sites of human habitation, and surrounded by 8 ft chain link fences with barbed wire on the top, and a similar gate. Bears still pass by that area more than usual, drawn by the lovely smell of garbage (usually incinerate weekly or biweekly).

If I were to try a community scale compost pile in bear country, I would want a similar setup, 1 km away from humans, 10 ft tall fences, well covered with straw or something.

For home scale composting- worm bins indoors or the garage might work. I have also had small compost piles while I was growing up. We were 1 km from the nearest neighbour and had outdoor dogs, so the bears never got close enough to discover the pile.

Big LGD dogs and multi-strand (solar) electric fence. Aaaaand, some rubber bullets.

I do not have experience with bears, but i recall in my permaculture design course that it was important when possible to plan to share with local fauna and flora. When it was possible we would plant more more trees and berries for the wildlife would benefit from it too. The reasoning is a little longer then that, but why is it a problem to share your compost with the bear or the skunk or the crow ? Sure they make a little mess, but it's their home too.

Joe, with hot compost (e.g. 120-160F) I've never had wild Coyotes, mountain lion, racoons, or foxes come dig in it; nor out domestic dogs and chickens. I use the Joe Jenkins center feed composting method so the pile stays hot perpetually, even down to -25F (-47F with wind).  I've composted many butcher trimmings, hole chicken carcasses, baby lambs that didn't make it, an entire goat we quartered, etc.. We do have livestock guardian dogs near the pile during the winter when we bring our mixed flerd in from rotating on pasture, but not the entire year. Bears aren't regular visitors to our area.

This is absolutely doable. I have worked in several national parks with large black bear populations that had compost facilities for their environmental ed camps/schools. In North Cascades, where they were starting to get a few grizzlies coming back to the region as well, they had what looked like a 3000gal poly water tank with a mechanical rotary turning device. In southern california we had a large three bin system built with nothing smaller than 2x4s, and largely 4x4s, hog panels and hardware cloth and a corrugated metal roof. It was also surrounded by hundreds of very loud wee people, which really helps more than you’d think. In Olympic we had similar to the North Cascades system at the park lodge, but I also maintained solar composting toilets in the backcountry where the highest bear/acre population occurs in the western US (fed by 9 native species of blue/huckle/cranberries + salmon).  In all these successful cases, a camper culture of bear canisters and campground boxes prevented problem bears in the first place as well. I currently live in a bear heavy place near Redwood, and we have had no problems despite less than lockdown food waste disposal (johnson su bioreactor). I firmly believe this is because we have a Pyrenees-Akbash inside our fenced 1acre of zone 1-2/3ish. where the composting happens. The fence would not keep out a bear, but Willie (our LGD) does, and he is not food driven. He even allows quail and other birds to enjoy the top layer of the compost while depositing their precious gut biota and manure. Nothing beats a big dog for bear/deer/human paraquat management in my observation. Fence an LGD in, and they will keep what you want to coexist with, just not in your zone 1-3, out.

Raphaël Blais wrote:I do not have experience with bears, but i recall in my permaculture design course that it was important when possible to plan to share with local fauna and flora. When it was possible we would plant more more trees and berries for the wildlife would benefit from it too. The reasoning is a little longer then that, but why is it a problem to share your compost with the bear or the skunk or the crow ? Sure they make a little mess, but it's their home too.

Lack or experience with bears shows.  You don't share with a bear.  He eats you out of house and home while destroying everything, threaten the lives of you and your family.  Plus remember if you are a good feeding area you don't get just one bear but potentially dozens.  A wrecking crew of 500lb animals who are a violent threat to your life.

I would agree with the above sentiment, and remind all “a fed bear is a dead bear”, and a fed Mama bear will teach her cubs the food source that will lead to all their deaths. Prevention is paramount. Olympic National Park has the one of the highest bear concentrations in the lower 48, 3million annual human visitors,  and has had only 1 problem bear from 1940s-2011 (my last season there so that’s my data point). That bear came from an insufficiently secured trash bin. Since the 80’s they have required bear canisters or provided bear hangs for food, and this prevented the problem bear epidemics seen in Yosemite and Yellowstone. Anyone who cares for bears, raccoons, or people, does not want to habituate a problem bear. Make your compost bomb/bear proof and ideally this includes a guardian dog or two around it.

Anne Miller wrote:You might consider looking into Bokashi.  Here are a couple of threads that might help.

https://permies.com/t/78784/Bokashi-Composting

https://permies.com/t/137408/Quickest-Easiest-bokashi-home-Experiences

I was thinking the same thing.  I live on the edges of bear country too (their territory is a few hundred feet above me), and I have no interest in ever attracting them to my yard. Also, I basically live in a suburban community -- standard-size lots, and houses packed close(r) together. My neighbors would put me in the compost bin if I attracted bears to the neighborhood.

I found this resource: https://www.planetnatural.com/composting-101/indoor-composting/bokashi-composting/  About halfway through the article, they talk about how to create your own Bokashi inoculant.

Each of the households in your community could ferment their own compost indoors, or if you have a common barn or other building, you could fashion a fermenting device and use it communally.

Good Luck!