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Jay Angler wrote:Nathan, I'm having trouble figuring out from what you've written whether you're talking about "leaves" or just "woody branches" as the significant source of the goat's food.
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Ralph Sluder wrote: I would think very fast growing trees like mulberry and moringa would be good candidates, they both could be nearly stripped a couple times a year and keep on growing. Also growing comfrey and sweet potato vines around the trees as well.
Yes, I haven't found Mulberry very hardy except where it's getting some support. That said, it's excellent quality forage, so if you can plant some where the goat's water will be near and use their "gently used" water to supplement the Mulberry you may be able to stack functions that way. I have ducks and I'm always trying to figure out how I can safely get some of my ducks closer to where I'd like more water! Unfortunately the combo of aerial predators and lack of fencing is delaying that goal.In my climate on the West Coast, Mulberry might not grow all that fast without supplemental irrigation, unless it's at the bottom of a large hill where water naturally seeps out.
I've heard that goats will eat both Scotch Broom and English Ivy so long as it's not their sole diet, and it's considered invasive here. It's why I've looked into the topic a little, but the aforementioned lack of fencing was the limitation.Always keep harvesting the biggest trees allowing smaller trees to keep growing in the understory and this can go on forever. This would provide both goat forage and firewood at the same time.
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Kate Downham wrote:My goats are doing well on trees with no pasture. I feed pregnant and milking does a supplement of lucerne and grain, and all goats have access to a mineral lick. My goats like white maple/sycamore maple a lot.
Jay Angler wrote:
Two things I'd research: 1. What ratio would allow your need for firewood balance your need for goats? Goats are groupies, so I'm still thinking you might need some dedicated forage just for them.
2. If you're giving them access to the areas you're cutting (as opposed to moving the cut material to them), will you be able to contain them enough that they won't kill any new trees just starting out. This is an issue in Eastern North America where the deer population is so high that it's preventing the Carolinian Forest system from naturally regenerating.
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Michael Cox wrote:Goats do eat the foliage of trees, but they also enjoy stripping the bark from any branches and standing trees they can reach. The bark layer has lots of sugars that they can digest apparently.
Nathan Watson wrote:
Kate Downham wrote:My goats are doing well on trees with no pasture. I feed pregnant and milking does a supplement of lucerne and grain, and all goats have access to a mineral lick. My goats like white maple/sycamore maple a lot.
Maples tend to be among the more edible of trees, the leaves of some species aren't even bitter. I've actually eaten a handful of leaves off the local Broadleaf Maples before, and felt no ill effects. That means fresh green Maple leaves, they become toxic when they're wilted according to my sources. If a human can eat them then I'm sure a goat or a cow can too. There aren't a lot of places around here where there is enough year round soil moisture for Maples, mostly just gulleys, drainages, creeks, etc. How do your goats do on the less edible trees in your area? Conifers, oaks, etc? There are lots of Douglas Fir here and I can get oaks to grow easily here too.
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nathan wrote:Then there's also the issue of how long a tree will stay green after you cut it, even in a cool damp creekside location a tree would probably dry out in a week or 2 during summer and any foliage they couldn't eat in that time would go to waste.
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That makes sense to me - beavers eat the bark off trees/branches. They chew a tree to knock it down, but they don't actually eat the wood - the beaver chips are left where they were chewed.In many trees there are far more digestible sugars and other calories in the bark than any other part of the tree.
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Stacy Witscher wrote:I think the idea is to feed the branches of trees that are being trimmed or taken down. This is a great idea for me as I have 80 acres of mostly forest that needs fuel reduction work.
This also supports the concept of a "multiple paddock" system that the animals rotate through. This can be hard in reality because fencing is expensive and can be difficult to erect in a forest area. But anyone wanting to create a food forest on open land, such as Mark Shepard did, could more easily incorporate an area with 8 or more goat paddocks with suitable plants inside, and a couple of "safe zones" where people brought cuttings to the goats.Stacy Witscher wrote:I think the idea is to feed the branches of trees that are being trimmed or taken down. This is a great idea for me as I have 80 acres of mostly forest that needs fuel reduction work.
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Bamboo isn't known to be particularly nutritious. I know that the shoots are nutritious, but need to be cooked for human consumption (cyanide). My geese eat them raw (unless I protect the area in the spring) but they seem smart enough not to eat too many at one time. I would certainly do more research and hopefully someone with experience will comment.Markus Padourek wrote: Does anyone know how black locust and bamboo would work for goat feed? That is what I am considering on planting for our firewood needs and I am also considering if we could have some "wool" goats, for fiber, meat and possibly also milk.
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Jay Angler wrote:
Bamboo isn't known to be particularly nutritious. I know that the shoots are nutritious, but need to be cooked for human consumption (cyanide). My geese eat them raw (unless I protect the area in the spring) but they seem smart enough not to eat too many at one time. I would certainly do more research and hopefully someone with experience will comment.Markus Padourek wrote: Does anyone know how black locust and bamboo would work for goat feed? That is what I am considering on planting for our firewood needs and I am also considering if we could have some "wool" goats, for fiber, meat and possibly also milk.
Nathan Watson wrote:
Jay Angler wrote:
Bamboo isn't known to be particularly nutritious. I know that the shoots are nutritious, but need to be cooked for human consumption (cyanide). My geese eat them raw (unless I protect the area in the spring) but they seem smart enough not to eat too many at one time. I would certainly do more research and hopefully someone with experience will comment.Markus Padourek wrote: Does anyone know how black locust and bamboo would work for goat feed? That is what I am considering on planting for our firewood needs and I am also considering if we could have some "wool" goats, for fiber, meat and possibly also milk.
Locusts are in the Fabaceae family, meaning they are related to beans, peas, etc. and can fix nitrogen in their roots. Plants in this family are a favorite of herbivores due to their high protein content. However, being a favorite of herbivores, almost all plants in this family have toxins which limit how much can be eaten by an herbivore before they will get sick from it. The important thing with any potentially toxic plant is that goats have other options. Deer never get poisoned by any of the toxic plants they eat, because they instinctively avoid eating too much of any one plant and they have other options available. When domestic animals get poisoned, it is because they had nothing else to eat, and were forced to eat too much of a toxic plant so they wouldn't starve.
According to this source Black Locust is toxic to goats: it http://poisonousplants.ansci.cornell.edu/goatlist.htm
Another consideration is that Black Locust has thorns and will be difficult for goats to eat without hurting themselves.
You're going to find that Black Locust is very easy to grow. Here in Southern Oregon I once saw it growing in the woods, in spite of the fact that our summers are long, hot, and dry (3-4 months of no rain at least). It can be invasive in some areas, but it's not going to take over the forest here, it just escapes cultivation on rare occasions because so many people plant it in their yards.
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That's great "stacking functions". I imagine the grain in the knobby bits would look fantastic.Ultimately the trees themselves were harvested and the wood, complete with intricate wood grain and knots, use for making furniture.
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Very interesting - I wonder if it was a specific variety of Oak? We have "Big Leaf" Maple here that is incredibly good at sprouting, but there are other varieties that I don't think are so inclined. Big Leaf Maple is considered a "soft-wood", but Sugar Maple is definitely a "hard-wood" for example. (Although, we can tap Big Leaf Maple and get syrup - apparently not quite as nice, but still sugar. I haven't tried it as my weather is marginal, but some year I may.)Michael Cox wrote:It’s not quite pollarding though, and wasn’t referred to like that. Branches resprout from the full length of the main stem, not just at the top. It was quite a different growth pattern.
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