In your humble opinion, what is wrong with dating today?

The posts I have seen on social media sites is not from me going out of my way to look at it, it is what friends have shown me. I mentioned what a person said they were looking for on a site to use as an example, I have no idea what she looked like, I went off her description of herself and there was no picture in which to judge her by.  I have no idea about whether she is deserving or not nor do I care. The point I was making is that many people are out of touch with reality when it comes to what they think they deserve. I was also making the point that people were less arrogant, more down to earth, and less narcistic before internet and social media. I am 51 years old, so I have spent most of my life not being part of technology up until more recently. I've seen a big change in how people act and think because of the advent of social media.

Robin Katz wrote:

Jordan Holland wrote:Imagine that that person has had nothing but bad experiences. Nothing but failure. Imagine that that person has decided to give the world one more chance to show that life is worth living before they choose to end it. And that chance is you. Please be kind.

This statement presents an implied obligation to save the person or they will kill themselves. You don't have to come out and say the exact words for the meaning to be clear to a woman (or a lot of men).

Please re-read my post. I gave you a real life example where someone tried this on me. He didn't want a relationship. He wanted sex and used the tale of his sad life to try to make me feel pity for him.

I think Jordan's post is qualitatively different from a bad person lying in order to get what he wants. It is clearly different.

No one has any *obligation* to feel pity, god knows we can't make anyone feel any obligation to anyone in this society any longer- Marx said as much on the first page of the Communist Manifesto.

The amount of pushback against simply being kind is really telling.

I myself have been guilty of lashing out in anger over the years on these dating sites after my horrid experiences. There's no excuse for not trying to be sensitive.

There are a lot of good, hurting people out there , is all I'm saying, and god knows the world needs more emotional intelligence.

Diane Maldonado wrote: I know not everyone is the same but the dating pool doesn’t have a lot of quality applicants and I don’t know why.

imho there are a lot of quality applicants but they stay off dating sites for different reasons. That's been my experience as someone who "online dated" on and off from 1995 to 2016. I noticed early on that there are better looking, more sane and educated people walking or driving down the street than there are "advertising their wares" and "putting their hooks out" online....my advice is stay off the internet for romance and do it irl. Easier to suss people out that way.

Michael Adamson wrote:

Jim Morrison wrote:
Maybe if technology went down and people had to sweat and bleed for their food, maybe they would learn to 'be human' again.  

This is what it all boils down to.  I'll be up on my mountain doing my thing.  I might let a cute one make it up the driveway but she'll have to stay in the barn until she proves her worth, and loyalty.

Dating is collapsing because civilization is collapsing because domestication is dysevolution.

one last thing: I have an inkling that this big explosion of the zombie/apocalypse genre has a lot to do with people sensing this, dealing with urbanization , chemical exposure, dense population, higher education and living requirements, increasing social narcissism etc. The ZA genre is all about gritty survival, banding together, being tough physically and mentally etc- essentially the opposite of normative american life today. People loooove watching it go down from the safety of their living rooms

Jan White wrote:So, it seems like the pain of rejection is a big deal for guys, more so than for women. I have pretty thick skin, so might not be a good person to talk about this. I was always thrilled when a guy was rude to me or ghosted me. It just meant I could cross him off the list, move on, and not waste any more time on someone who obviously wasn't a good match.

....
So that's one. What are some other things guys can do to be more resilient in the face of rejection?

I think you are missing the point.  I think guys deal with a few rejections as well or better than women.  The difference is the amount of rejection the guy faces vs the ladies.  Top end guys face very little but the average guy probably faces 100X as many rejections as the women face.  It may even out later in life as women hit the wall but for the first 2 to 3 decades of dating guys face a way higher rejection rate.  You only have to look at the online dating stats to get this one.  If 80% of women will only date the top 20% of guys. (20% is really stretching it(mostly it is the top 4 1/2% of guys))  So that means 60% of guys are totally worthless in the dating market.  I often listen to women complain about trying and picking up a few turn downs like it is the end of the world when I just consider that a good weekend because at least I was turned down politely and actually got turn downs rather than stood up.  And a woman being given a get lost number is horrified when guys get them semi often.  For those who don't know a get lost number has a voice mail that various things from a nice turn down(wasn't interested) to a snotty name calling rejection.)

The programming that the media gives young people is about infidelity in marriage being a big adventure, that's a part of being "free" and successful and desirable.  It seems to indicate its ok to have intimacy before marriage or before you even get to know if you are compatible with another.    Easy access to porn for immediate satisfaction has numbed the senses like a drug causing a man to become addictive to more and no longer able to function when with a real woman.  
  Family as we know it today has broken apart, more children come from divorced families.  Family becoming weak and frail by breaking up the home life and family structure.      By not having the support of a family, the population is not emotionally supported to withstand the harsh realities of society. By children not being adequately parented and strengthened spiritually, each new generation lack inner fortitude, which can more easily be manipulated by society.  
To understand more about dating I suggest Dr. John Gray.  He has assisted me tremendously to understand men and women....and that both have different needs in a relationship.   Once you understand what that is you can have a happy relationship.  Dr. Gray explains healthy hormones levels and how important they are in a relationship.
Relationship Counsellor Dr. John Gray explains what is going on in relationships.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuM7ZS7nodk

Jim Morrison wrote:
 

A friend of mine that is a shrink, she told me a few years ago she has as many women addicted to porn as men.  

Anecdotally I doubt that there are as many women addicted to pornography as there are men, but it would not surprise me if there were as many women who are addicted to porn seeking professional help with it as there are men.  My first wife had an "addiction to romance novels" which lead her to seek an "alpha male by day, sensitive lover by night" to replace me.  She found him, though he turned out to be a controlling sex addict.

I spent a weekend intensive retreat with a mens group a number of years ago and I was mildly surprised at how pervasive the acknowledgement of at least *mild* addiction to pornography was in a session held on the topic of sexual dysfunctions.    The general tenor was that pornography was not implicitly problematic, but that it was generally believed to be  a "risky" topic, on the same level as recreational drugs and alcohol, and critical to have a balanced understanding with any partner.

I definitely would not want to be a woman today who might feel pressure to meet the image and performance standards implied by commercial pornography.  

To my mind, the overuse of the word addiction has diminished actual addiction issues.

Divorce is not bad. Staying in abusive or unfulfilling relationships is bad.

Children don't need a mother and father, they need people who love and respect them as people regardless of relationships.

Brainwashing your children with your religious or political beliefs is child abuse.

Any time an inanimate object is blamed for a large part of society's problems, I take it with a massive grain of salt. Porn is one of those things. I've always been intrigued by society's views on porn. I can understand if a society follows a religion that forbids such, but our society here in the States is so accepting of so much today, and I see many atheists (with no religious dogma whatsoever) who seem as dismissive of it from a moral perspective as many religious people. From what I've read, it makes up an unbelievable amount of the internet's traffic, so it appears many people are into it. An equally unbelievable amount of money is spent on it.  It strikes me as one of those things where the people who the most vociferously object to it are likely secretly its greatest connoisseurs. I think it's far more likely a symptom of problem rather than a problem itself. Why is there such a market for it?

Men have sex drives, women have sex drives, it would seem there's common ground there. Why aren't people coming together? Sex has been weaponized for millennia, but I feel it has never been to the extent it now is. It seems to me it was once a part of the system of checks and balances between men and women back in the old days. Today, the gender roles have been largely dissolved, or at least an attempt has been made, and there is so much more flexibility and freedom as our society has changed. We often look back on the old-fashioned courtship principles as being very unfair (to women). While I agree they were unfair, I do not believe it to the extent many seem to today. I believe women had far more power than many today believe. One striking thing I do notice, is that in the old systems of courtship and society, most men and most women were able to marry someone. We often obsess today over how unhappy many were, or how unfair it was, or whatever--touting our new way as being far superior in every respect. Society is pushing blatant selfishness as the most upright thing a person can do--at least in dating. Which is odd, because in virtually all other areas selfishness is considered a negative trait. As I understand it, the current level of happiness in men and women is plummeting. That balance, though imperfect as it was, is gone. The power that women once had is gone, and has been replaced by other freedoms (to get a job, to stay single, to drive, to vote, etc.). Men also have more freedoms, like losing the societal pressure to settle down and be a breadwinner for the next generation of children. It seems many women are upset today, because their extra freedoms and equality were supposed to make things like dating better. Things appear to be worse. Liberating themselves also seems to have liberated men in many ways, and many men are simply not willing to put up with the demands placed on them to be in a relationship. The idea that men are becoming so desensitized due to porn that they can't perform with a real woman is being pushed quite often today. I just can't imagine it. I think it's the other way around; they can't have a woman, so they settle for porn. It seems far more likely to me it's simply a cost/benefit analysis. And if the cost outweighs the benefit, a man has no reason to participate. The same can be said for a woman.  Indeed, many men simply do not have whatever price is demanded, and cannot pay it even if they want to. So they make do with what they do have, and just try to live life the best they can on their own.

Stacy Witscher wrote:To my mind, the overuse of the word addiction has diminished actual addiction issues.

Divorce is not bad. Staying in abusive or unfulfilling relationships is bad.

Children don't need a mother and father, they need people who love and respect them as people regardless of relationships.

Brainwashing your children with your religious or political beliefs is child abuse.

I agree that children need a loving "village" if you will, that can be any combination of healthy relationships, not only with the children but with one another, whatever form that might take.  I was raised in the most nuclear of families as my parents had left their birthplace to settle in the West after WWII and we moved around just enough that they never established lifelong bonds with new people.   Most of my friends growing up came from large extended families that had long-term "neighbor" relationships.  Those children *were* raised by a "village" and while those villages were far from perfect I came to respect the power of those richer relationship networks after I was grown and was trying to raise my own children with the same kind of "independence" my parents had opted for.

I agree that many words are over-used and mis-applied, but I don't think it is good to except "sex addiction" in it's many forms from the label entirely.   I also don't think we can exclude "media" and "food/retail/hoarding consumption" as forms of *addictive behaviour* as they all seem to stem back to collateral unfulfilled needs, often stemming back to vacant/empty/abusive childhood experiences caused by parents/"villages" who were suffering their own losses and abuses.   And often "best intentions" as well.

I think Dr. Gabor Mate' (for one) does a very good job of outlining the many ways this happens and how it carries on through a whole lifetime (and cascades into the next generations) if we don't understand where our various compulsions and needs come from.

We have undergone a *lot* of societal changes, and many of the consequences of those changes take a generation or more to observe.   We still need to dedicate ourselves to raising our children well and being good members of whatever "village" we are part of, large or small.  

.

Too much Electronics, and mal nutrition, not enough detox cleansing to get those worms out of your brains, you cranial and your colon brain

Entitlement, lack of humility.

Too many Options
Platforms make it easy to misrepresent (sometimes labelled as "my-truth", hell in my day it was called THE truth)
Fear of Missing Out
Technology replacing actual human connection is a low investment game.
P.S.
I have 200+ UNREAD books on my Kindle. I bought the last one 3 days ago.
I'm just as guilty about Books as some people are about people.

Well I think the answer is a complicated one.
And this is an answer coming from a polygamist/ polygyny.  43 married man seeking female. so bear with me my opinion may be different then yours.  And it is not meant to hurt anyone's feelings. it is a pickle we are all in together . Yay 🤗 lets go!

I think there's something wrong with the way we live .
Definitely the way people dredge their social media accounts looking for likes thumbs ups comments from people who agree and also comments from people who disagree. I am guilty of this Behavior of course I have had social media accounts and a YouTube channel  . it is a strange habit that is new . You see people on dates they're not even looking at each other they're just sitting there staring at their phones it is such a weird phenomenon but we have accepted it and think that this behavior is normal . For most I think it's even a strain to keep up with it all .
Something is wrong with the main goals and desires of the average person . I think most are chasing after  lies and a false depiction of normal modern human existence. 😯 It seems obvious that we all suffer from too much screen time . I'm speaking specifically about a form of insanity that has been accepted all around the world as a normal way to live. A form of mania .
Interestingly enough explained in the movie The Hobbit as Dragon sickness. A terrible Fierce need unquenchable desire.
It is materialism that I'm speaking about and a addiction to copying others -Because we are creatures of habit we see and we repeat.  I believe  for quite a while now we have been presented with a form of living that is fake and unreachable by most. this form of living we have witnessed it through TV 'programs' and also by watching other people chase after riches. I believe the way to live has been lost by most to such a strong degree- though  blinded they see truth with disgust.
My opinion is that we collectively have been programmed to consume . 😳
Happy independent/ self-reliant loving families 💏👪consume less than  Self-seeking miserable broken individuals who can't find contentment , lack self-control , desperately addicted to trending culture and social media -they are lost and shopping makes them feel better. Actually posting about their shopping and what they bought makes them feel better --temporarily. 😶
Slowly most have been changed from independent free thinkers who based their logic in fact and reason . To a mob of thoughtless zombies 💀💀💀chanting the Mantra of their Heroes- ever consuming , ever wanting , ever following the agenda of the advertiser.
most have been made to believe that items which they needed so desperately a month ago are now disposable . And so the circle is complete .the program works flawlessly from desire to purchase- to unnecessarily tossing the item out to the trash or possibly hoarding it in a basement or in a two-car garage that does not have room for any cars .

And if you've made it this far 👯👯 finally the reason why dating is so messed up is cuz no one has any time to get to know one another , thoughtfully speak to one another regularly. Living together is not the 2 +whatever hours of watching TV together before you go to bed. It takes quite a bit more effort to have a happy and exciting relationship.  
I said all of the above to describe what we're selfish about. and that wraps it up- people are too selfish but it's okay because  their TV shows satisfies their thirst for adventure and they're longing for life and romance . 😊
This sounds very outside looking in but in actuality consumerism is a tough one to overcome for me . Nasty habit can't wait to be rid of it for good .
But if I could make a point -the normal depiction of life : get educated, get a mortgage, work for 30 years, retire, then have some fun -it really makes no sense and it's unachievable and it leaves the two individuals who have married each other or dating each other with very little options for a successful relationship . Because most of their time is spent with other people, and also their own Hobbies and responsibilities... where is the time for real togetherness?

Simpleness satisfies- for the main reason of time acquired by letting go of useless busyness and obsessive wanting. If you've ever heard anyone say You must make time - they were right.  

(Life is easy why do we make it so hard.) Most are chasing after the wind. And instead should be chasing rabbits out of the garden  , Or dare I say it -holding hands or sowing seeds with someone they love.
It is one's own decisions that frees them or keeps them in Chains.    I Choose a simple path - its more fun lol 🎙🐇😁🐰

What I don't get is why people even like social media? Like, what do you get out of typiing words to strangers when there's no benefit, no payment, no payoff like there is with people irl?

yes i get this is social media-technically- but i gave this 30 seconds of my time from an email I was clearing out. I receive no social benefit from this comment, only a rational, intellectual one. I like to clear out my brain worms/organize my thoughts&questions and eventually will check back in.

so how can social media ruining society be the problem for society or dating, when it's the very choice that people are making to use that social media to begin with THAT IS THE ORIGINAL PROBLEM?

as usual, neurotypicals running past themselves to move forward all while running backwards.

arianna higgins wrote:Like, what do you get out of typiing words to strangers when there's no benefit, no payment, no payoff like there is with people irl?

I'm not really sure how conversation isn't a payoff. But also, I don't consider most of my interlocutors strangers. The folks commenting on a random  news-piece are, but the vast majority of my time spent on social media platforms is keeping up with friends...or at least friendlies.

I keep my social media super tight.   I'm only on one page,  I block ads, and I don't "friend" people who aren't friends.  It's a small group of people I actually know and have relationships with, and a convenient and efficient way to share events, announcements, updates, photos,  ask questions, check in with people.   Especially people I don't get to see regularly.   I use it on a computer, not a mobile phone, so I'm unplugged 75% of my time.    

Heather Staas wrote:
I keep my social media super tight.   I'm only on one page,  I block ads, and I don't "friend" people who aren't friends.  It's a small group of people I actually know and have relationships with, and a convenient and efficient way to share events, announcements, updates, photos,  ask questions, check in with people.   Especially people I don't get to see regularly.   I use it on a computer, not a mobile phone, so I'm unplugged 75% of my time.    

right but then basically youre not doing social media, youre simply using texting platforms to communicate with friends and people you already know, some of the time. what youre doing makes sense. i don't get anything except frustration when i can't see, smell and hear someone i'm talking to. it's a very isolating, asocial, experience when i talk to people online. it feels "wrong", bewildering, pointless, backwards and quite angering.

i can still send photos on my phone and email them to friends/fam so i dont get letting strangers see them. it's a very bad idea. events announcements all of that can be text/email communicated or irl. i don't see the ease of use unless i had a huge amount of people i know/am friendly with AND am very "active" (here, come join my cycling troupe! look at my baby photos! I'm volunteering at the local shelter, please donate! I'm running a marathon!) I can't handle that much social activity and connections it's too exhausting , and someone else should be doing it FOR me lol. (Why is it SUDDENTLY *everyone*s responsibility to advertise EVERYTHING to as many people as possible?!??!?!?!?! No! I say no.)Im just saying people should be what the entire lineage has done for nine million years, which is act communally in small tribal groups. We have no town hall or community meeting space or rituals, and the suicide rates and depression rates are skyrocketing, shocker right? And apparently the sex and birth rates are plummeting too. Like DUH.

I can chime in here about social media because I'm in the midst of a digital detox: I know it sounds cheesy but bear with me.

I read Digital Minimalism by Cal Newport last month and it sparked something in me. It's all about developing a new, healthier relationship with many of the optional technologies (primarily apps such as Facebook, Netflix, and Youtube, we aren't talking about microwaves or inverters lol) we have access to.

When you ask why so many people use social media, I think it's because it's more of a compulsion than anything. Not only are the applications easily accessible but they are all designed to harvest the user's attention and sell that attention to advertisers. As a result, the apps are extremely alluring in every way possible, and they hijack many of our social needs to keep us coming back. For example many social media companies don't notify you in real time when you receive a 'like'. They'll often wait until 'likes' are there, not only to give you a bigger boost of dopamine but also to keep the rewards uncertain and unpredictable, similar to how a slot machine works.

As a result of the detox I have been off both Tinder and Bumble (both dating apps for anyone who doesn't know) and I don't miss them one bit. Here's the thing: If there was a hypothetic scenario where I could only meet ladies online and not in real life, I'd be seriously worried about my prospects of meeting my special lady. There are so many traits that women look for in a partner that are challenging to display online.  For example one of the basic ones is kindness. It is very easy to act sweet in a short text exchange, but MUCH harder to fake being nice for weeks and weeks: say if you're in the same class or have the same job as a lady you're interested in. Or a sense of humour. It's easy to send funny memes. But it takes a real sense of humour to make people laugh in real life in real time. So if I am being unclear, I'm saying many of the traits women look for in a long-term partner are much more easily observed in real life with multiple encounters, rather than 5-7 photos on an app. The problem is, online dating is seen as a very important part of dating today.

I know people who have met partners online and are in happy relationships. It's not impossible, or even unlikely. But I think my chances, being the eco-freak future homesteader that I am, are probably better in real life if I make an effort to attend permie or permie-ish events around me. I bet it's the same for a lot of folks here on permies too!

It took me about 2 days of being on a dating website to realize and accept that it wasn't ALL about ME.
I had posted pictures that I figured showed the REAL me..
One was a picture of me carrying a 5 gallon Thunderbucket through snow out to an outhouse in my boots, nightgown and Carhartt Jacket.
IE.. I handle my own business..
Figuring I would get a few guys slowing down to gawk.. like you do at a bad accident.
I got swamped.. it was insane.. Everyone was looking for REAL.

However.. not a lot of modern men today are prepared for REAL.
They don't even know what that looks like.

So.. I approached it like I just sat down next to a stranger on a bus stop bench..
Some you chat to.. and get on different busses, others you get on the bus with but you are going different places.
Some are people you nod to on your regular route.
So.. friendship first. If anything more comes along.. that's a bonus.

I joined during C19 lockdown. Medically not recommended to get Vaxed, not my choice either. I know a few things about immunity.
The downright demonization and isolation, approbation and contempt towards the men and women that chose not to get vaxed was cruel, isolating and so wrong.
So I made a point if I was reading profiles.. to send every one I ran across a thumbs up.
Didn't matter the age or compatability.
Just for making a difficult choice and living with those consequences.
It has actually become a defining positive characteristic of the free thinking man that interests me.

I don't think our society has even started to count the cost of the C19 social implications.

I always pay for the first meet.
Usually breakfast or lunch at a food truck or pub..  
I ran across men that were terrified to make contact, frightened to leave their homes, their safe routines, to meet someone outside their circle.
I'm a minimalist.. wanted to travel.
Live in my truck camper most of the year.
Men couldn't stand to leave their assets, their jobs, their extended families.
When I would say.. "My husband was a hoarder.. I don't want your stuff, don't want to store, clean, fix your stuff.. If we get together.. You better figure out who inherits it because it won't be me."

That set a lot of men completely adrift..
If you don't judge my value and worth on my truck, toys, home, status, looks, height, weight, race..
What else is left?
It was heartbreaking to realize that without those quantifiers, men didn’t feel they had any value.
When I say.. I want a man who is honest, one whos handshake means something, one who is kind to kids and dogs. One who has a code of honor he lives by.

There were a lot of men in their 60's that didn't understand what that even meant.

THEN we could have a discussion.
How to take back that strength and lovingly use that power.
I think I'm up to 9 guys that went back to their ex wives... grin..
Ok... Clear the stumps and rubble from the relationship and start with fresh cleared land.
Get out there and pick those Rocks every year.

Our society has so polluted against what is truly the most awe inspiring core of a good man.
The qualities that make him a partner, lover, friend. An asset to the planet.
Those same qualities that instill such deep respect and appreciation from his mate that cherishing him becomes as essential as breathing.

This had been a planned dismantling of the family structure for generations by those wishing to subjugate man for their own empowerment.

You ask what is wrong with online dating?
It's a reflection of our societal shitpond.
And not even knowing that there is a better way out there.

People need to grow a backbone, stand up and say..
What we are doing and where we are going isn't sustainable. STOP.
Screw PC.. be brutally honest in your interactions.
Ask for what you want and don't settle for less.
Better happy alone than miserable together.

Just my opinion.
Someone give me a hand off this soapbox?
Grin.

Nola, thank you so much for SHARING that, it resonates so strongly with me right now and the very difficult "tower moment" I'm struggling to emotionally process and move on from.   Regret, sadness, disappointment.  Wondering why a grown man with SO MUCH to offer and with such a beautiful possible future CANT choose it,   is afraid of it, afraid other men will think him weak, desperately need the approval of other men that devalue women,  can rewrite his whole past and experience based on others preying on his insecurities and making him doubt his own memory.   Heartbreaking, not just for me, but for where this is leading him as well.   After 15 years apart my ex and I started a long, thoughtful, slow friendship that we both thought was growing into something strong and healed.   Then all those same-old same-old habits and patterns sucked him right back into his addictions and insecurities.  He broke his own heart as well as mine,  he just can't leave this cycle.   He CAN get to the "attraction and affection" part of a relationship.  But when it's time for the "trust and commitment" part he runs as fast and far as he can from those feelings.  Not because he doesn't want it, but because he's overwhelmed and terrified by it.   He lives in his fear. Even now.  :(

So your words are REALLY resonating for me at the moment,  and if it's ok with you I'm incorporating them into my healing process and emotional growth <3  Thank you.  

Okay I'm back with less coffee and hopefully more humble opinion . 😼☕
I have to say this is so good and fun to read . There's so much on this thread .good information and stories .
I recently realized part of my own problem.  I've been trying to take shortcuts myself with online dating . well my Approach has been lame and not really fun for anyone not even for me .
Well maybe it's been fun for the scammers who keep trying to get my money 😆 im not going to fall for it Portuguese Brazilian chick with you're cute handmade pink dress on the Giant farm that you've inherited from your grandparents no we're not going to send you money so that you can meet us lol. Even if you pronounce the word  because" becows" 😊Cute but not fun.
I Had to take a good long look at myself in the mirror and really consider what I had to offer a woman.
And what I came up with was  not things that modern women are interested in. Well maybe some stuff haha.
What gives why are people like this .
It'll sure do a number on your self-esteem and honestly it took me a good while to get my confidence back .
I was going about things wrong.
I have a pretty good idea as to why I couldn't figure this out I've been married to the same woman for 23 years . She's cool she accepts my polygeny and we don't give up.  
I've not been on the dating scene and things change.
But  I think that it was me that changed more  than the dating scene 😬.
Dang it sucks to realize that I've been really the source of the problem. Side note but still relevant .Also the problem is that women like to flirt with people they're not even really interested in . But I get it it's a self-esteem booster for you. And for most just a terrible habit.  ladies just stop doing that it's really fun😊 but it is also confusing for us guys. I know most of you don't see  any harm in it and figure it's just smiling. But you should consider what the men think. Guarantee they don't see it the same way and most men will think that you have feelings for them. And they're going to possibly pursue because they think you're interested . Well duh.
I didn't realize that I lacked patience to get to know someone . I thought I had a genuine interest too meet someone. But my actions told a different story.
I would rather tell a potential or someone that I had some interest in everything about myself and then they could decide if they felt compatible and that's really not a lot of fun.
Also I would want to know everything about them and I had a list in my mind of things that were compatible and things that were not compatible. Now I look back on this kind of stuff and think this was just sort of Dumb and not being real. Also for quite some time I wasn't even sure of what kind of person I wanted to be around. I guess I figured I would know it when I found it.
Someone got it right when they said I was a sanguine temperament. I had to look it up dang they nailed it. Well mostly that temperament stuff is sort of weird I don't like being put in a box like that but it was pretty  close. The short side of it is Adventure Seeker easy going fun loyal honest family man . But in these modern times I think most people would accept some type of side chick relationship or an open relationship or a Triad before they would accept polygeny . It's okay I've never made it a big deal to be accepted . I'm not a follower and that makes people mad . I just don't get it why is everyone going in the same direction. I'll never look at Society to figure out how I should behave I've got Instinct for that. I think people are uncomfortable with instinct 😆.
I believe online dating is not for me. It's just too boring for my personality and it takes way too long to get to know someone . And then you're not really sure if they are real.
My biggest problem was the friend first scenario . I was looking at it more or less like someone friendly that I was physically attracted to . And I admit that was dumb.
Thankfully and I'm excited to say this because it has been a real change and growth in me personally and I wasn't expecting it .
I really am looking forward to finding a true friend and someone to have fun with like stupid fun. Like throw away your clocks fun . Like meet me at the skatepark fun.  
Thank you for reading this. I know it's not really about what's wrong with dating it was more like what's wrong with my dating . 👯🏃✌

In response to your post J. Graham,
in your humble opinion what is wrong with dating today?
Hi J.  I feel that it is in fact a bigger question.  What is wrong with communication today?
Humans are in need to evolve their ability to communicate.  Instead of the human species evolving in their abilities to communicate, I see the inability to communicate as being " the norm".   There are many different ways to communicate and perhaps humans have just been psychologically programmed to be in a box.  aka, they have not been programmed to have the ability to communicate.  I like it when humans ask questions.  Questions are precious seeds.  I hope that whoever reads this can be inspired to feel for the doorknob... that will open the box and go outside,,,,,.. and get a bit kooky in letting people know that you see them...that you know they have a beating heart and that you have got skill.    ......The skill to communicate.    Thanks J.  Good post.

Roshni Chandy wrote:

P.S.
I have 200+ UNREAD books on my Kindle. I bought the last one 3 days ago.
I'm just as guilty about Books as some people are about people.

😂
I have probably 100 books I haven't read yet! I wanted to add a bunch of real books to my collection of permie and out of print books, and they are all used books! (Recently online so I can get notifications on a wish list)
So now I don't feel badly that I have about 20 unread freebie Kindle books, and ten waiting in line, plus quite a number of audible books !

Yeah I will relax and listen to audible books at bed time, and my big canine BFF on the floor beside me

In response to what is wrong with dating today?
I've no idea.
I haven't dated in decades.
There are a lot of parasitic men and women out there looking for a new host to latch on to! From what I can gather, of all ages.

I think I have poor social skills and corresponding and keeping up friendships is something I think I lack the correct etiquette and frankly I embraced the whole permie lifestyle to opt out of the crazy train. Being isolated the way I like effectively eliminates the possibility of going on any dates, which doesn't bother me at all because I can't be bothered with driving and wasting fuel!

Online is a disaster. A man contacts me and either can't decide what will make an adequate date -- throwing that responsibility in my lap -- and I don't have patience for negative people -- what's wrong with just going for a walk? I don't end up explaining why I've given up on him before we have met because his first idea he wanted to change ends up with it eventually being my onus to come up with the perfect idea. I still think men should be decisive.

Or he won't take "go away" for an answer (a stalker) and keeps popping up as someone else until you unregister within weeks having not gone out once, and I've realized I am no good at being a pen pal, so that one who's probably locked up.... 😂

Only solution to find a permie might be a trip to the vortex in Missoula and hope to meet someone by word of mouth (the old way)

I've learned to look out for F.O G  -- manipulators use fear, obligation and guilt to control others and you can look for O.G. before you even get to dating!

Edit: G could stand for gaslighting too -- had this one character I never met wrote "can't believe you are mine" which was following "don't you think I'm entitled to be happy" meaning he saw my picture and thinks it means that I must correspond because I was on that site (thinking I am a puppy in a pet store and he's allowed to have dogs in his place), nope, empathy means you see that other person as a sentient being with their own reality, been there, done that with entitled people who can't see past themselves! They can't see you have your own ideas, and keep telling you what you think, must be nice to go through life thinking you can see in everyone else's heads (not) 😂
ignored that comment so the assumption must have been : "yes, you are entitled to take me out of your screen and bring me home" ... so many people these days think silence is compliance or concession, but it's my go-to for disagreement -- sorry about the rant but this poor liar of a stalker claiming to be in Italy but without the time disparity, then in France but doesn't want to speak French, then in California and who is this elderly lady he claims is his mother, is he doing time for knocking her off... is that why he can't meet up?

Oh and there was a youngish chap from here I said we could be friends because I am not interested in men who are younger, and he was REALLY younger !! but if I took a trip to the vortex, perhaps we could convoy -- sure thing! He wanted to invite himself to car camp in my Corolla 🤣🤣 🤣🤣🤣 now that's desperate even for someone under 5' tall! Not to mention I would never plan to share my sleeping quarters with someone I've never met,

Which reminds me: the "not looking for anything serious" meaning free meaningless sex when I think it means "plus one" at a social gathering!

I think the best thing about this forum is we get a chance to cheer each other along!

Spot On Ra,
perfect summary of what many of us have experienced too.

Living this lifestyle also makes one addicted to embracing a lot of space and alone time..... tough to give that up for someone that really doesnt add up to one's wellbeing and might in turn "complicate" things even if only the daily frictions.

I truly feel sorry for the younger generations that might have the dream of creating a family.... good luck on that one🤦🏽‍♀️