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Joshua Myrvaagnes wrote:What solutions could be designed to make a better “dating” process? Communication tools or games? Contra dances…? Designs please!
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Imogen Skye wrote:And being a genX'er, I've never come across any woman my generation or younger who has admitted this, that a woman can need a man. But I do. I am however aware that it's possible to live a whole life with an unmet need, so I'm hoping I won't, accepting that I might.
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Cheri Ryan wrote:
The old methods still hold the best hope. Any productive venue where folks gather for a
reason, to DO SOMETHING together. A common interest. Church with its social activities. Dances. AA meetings. A civic group. Dance lessons. Any sort if lessons. Clubs. Re-enactment groups. Somewhere where people actually gather physically rather than a digital mage
online.
My journal documenting my time living on the Stone Baerm Homestead in summer 2021: https://permies.com/t/160807/Stone-Baerm-Adventures
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Cam Haslehurst wrote:
Cheri Ryan wrote:
The old methods still hold the best hope. Any productive venue where folks gather for a
reason, to DO SOMETHING together. A common interest. Church with its social activities. Dances. AA meetings. A civic group. Dance lessons. Any sort if lessons. Clubs. Re-enactment groups. Somewhere where people actually gather physically rather than a digital mage
online.
Thank you for this reminder and great advice Cheri. As an introvert this advice is much easier read than done, but I know there'd be no regrets if I followed through on it. I know there is a community garden here in town, as well as a mountain bike association and an environmental group where I could meet a lot of likeminded people.
Great advice, just need to follow it!!
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"The world is changed by your example, not your opinion." ~ Paulo Coelho
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Cheri Ryan wrote:Back in “the ild days” people got together often. Most attended a church and I ts social functions, whether they were devout or merely showed up regularly. For instance, 90% of Americans in the early 1900’s attended a church or synagogue.
Many folks attended dances often and engaged in doing good works with others. The benefits of this social network were that single people came together to DO SOMETHING together. It offered the opportunity to get to know others better without force ng one to commit to a date or dating, then have one or the other stuck with the stress and embarrassment of seeing too many red flags and having to pull the plug on the relationship which was springing from bud to bloom too quickly.
When singles are doing something, they can more safely check out and get to know singles if the opposite sex without thee major pitfalls of the kinds of messes that befall singles these days.
The old social way of life provided a sort of shopping opportunity. It could often also give some protection as over time itt exposd the users and abusers to full view, if they stuck around a community long enough.
There were downsides, such as too few sngles n an area.
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arianna higgins wrote:...
Anyway I prefer the idea of getting to know most potential mates in your age group over a long time then slowly growing attachments. Now, most of us are living rather anonymously among a mobile, huge population of potentials where you have to somehow magically and organically connect individually, get to know each other separately from the larger group/s with no input from them then decide on your own, separately to continue or stop dating. If you think of it, it's a highly indivualistic and fast-paced endeavor and therefore subject to the whim of your or another's feelings or will at most points. Perhaps the end goal is worth comparing to the alternative, but anthropologically the process is excruciating and messy.
“The most important decision we make is whether we believe we live in a friendly or hostile universe.”― Albert Einstein
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The best place to pray for a good crop is at the end of a hoe!
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Living a life that requires no vacation.
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Lane Douglas wrote:Taking a pragmatic / practical look at dating in 2022.
Problem: find a partner with matching values and interests
Solutions: Where you work, church, social events, entertainment venues, and dating sites
The opportunity is probably less than it was 40 years ago to find an acceptable match at 1 of first 4 listed.
That leaves dating sites as the primary solution.
Problem: There are far too many dating sites, I in no way will attempt to list them all. This forum acts as a dating site for a few. We need a national register of available singles!
Problem # 2: Distance, the older we are, the less likely we are to want to relocate. I’ve passed on 5 potentially good matches due to distance alone.
John Weiland wrote:
arianna higgins wrote:...
Anyway I prefer the idea of getting to know most potential mates in your age group over a long time then slowly growing attachments. Now, most of us are living rather anonymously among a mobile, huge population of potentials where you have to somehow magically and organically connect individually, get to know each other separately from the larger group/s with no input from them then decide on your own, separately to continue or stop dating. If you think of it, it's a highly indivualistic and fast-paced endeavor and therefore subject to the whim of your or another's feelings or will at most points. Perhaps the end goal is worth comparing to the alternative, but anthropologically the process is excruciating and messy.
A first disclaimer is that I feel to have failed pretty miserably at the 'marital arts', even as the knot remains tied after ~40 years of being together with spouse. As a member of Western civ, I tend to lay a fair amount of the problems at the feet of our current 'customs', dating being just one more causing problems rather than offering solutions. Yet even during the early dating years of my teens, I became fascinated by a passage in a favorite book that seemed to offer a potentially more enduring mechanism of mate selection even as it offers no quick fixes as arianna notes above:
"....He accompanied her up the hill, explaining to her the details of his forthcoming tenure of the other farm. They spoke very little of their mutual feeling; pretty phrases and warm expressions being probably unnecessary between such tried friends. Theirs was that substantial affection which arises (if any arises at all) when the two who are thrown together begin first by knowing the rougher sides of each other's character, and not the best till further on, the romance growing up in the interstices of a mass of hard prosaic reality. This good-fellowship--camaraderie--usually occurring through similarity of pursuits, is unfortunately seldom superadded to love between the sexes, because men and women associate, not in their labours, but in their pleasures merely. Where, however, happy circumstance permits its development, the compounded feeling proves itself to be the only love which is strong as death--that love which many waters cannot quench, nor the floods drown, beside which the passion usually called by the name is evanescent as steam."
An adequate conclusion to Thomas Hardy's "Far from the Madding Crowd", yes?
Although I can agree that the choices and opportunities for interacting in the way that Hardy proposes are becoming few, it should perhaps come as little surprise that "prepared information" shared by various forms of media, digital and otherwise, is a poor substitute for learning about a potential partner's "rougher sides" through direct, un-rehearsed interaction in all circumstances.... and finding out that you can still appreciate them and maybe even grow to love them.
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Christopher Shepherd wrote:Here is something to think about. When I was young a bunch of my buddies and I would head out to the city and go to a dance club. We always started with a bet on who would get the most no's for the night. Most of the time when we would walk up to a group of girls and ask one of them to dance the answer was no! Maybe once or twice in a night a girl would say yes and actual dance with me. The first time I asked my wife on a date she rolled her eyes at me, told me no and walked away. As a young man rejection was just normal. I didn't have much to offer yet.
). Maybe I'm the only bohemian rebel/punk left? I just know my hot, broke, punk, brilliant painter makes me happy in my 40s!!!
Christopher Shepherd wrote:
My son is 18 now and there are a few friends that are girls hanging around the homestead. I think the helpful friend will probably be his first date. He is so busy with his business and school that he just can't take the time right now and get involved in a relationship deeper than friends. One day he told me " you know dad, statistically dating someone in high school typically ends up in divorce." His idea of dating is to find a wife. He doesn't want that right now.
My advice to him when he decides to find someone is to find the busiest working woman and ask her out. He is going to need someone that can keep up with and challenge him.
Terry Wilson[b wrote:]Finding a companion and/or mate has never been easy.[/b]
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Michaell White wrote:I found some interesting experiments on youtube, done on Tinder. They show the reality of what the problem is I think
This video shows a woman trying to use Tinder with the profile of a male friend, that she herself put together. She was confident that she would be very successful, because she thought the guy's photos were pretty good. In the end, she was shocked and depressed at the results
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZTIbHIsIYw
“It’s said war—war never changes. Men do, through the roads they walk. And this road—has reached its end.”
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Living a life that requires no vacation.
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arianna higgins wrote:
As a female I always find it odd that men think this way. The majority of girls and women, particularly younger/20somethings I've known reply based merely on the guy's looks (how hot he is and how well dressed, the latter being less important to a baseline otherwise it's no) and social skills. Hot dudes can be creepy, sure; but if he doesn't seem creepy and is good looking or even above average then it's a yes. It certainly was for me and I was one turning heads in Manhattan nightclubs in the 90s and 00s, it's a different era but our genetic imperatives haven't changed..Nothing bad ever happened to me and I have mostly good memories- so my instincts/observations here must be correct.
Males commonly focus obsessively on this weird capitalism propaganda of money/status/power (which afford opportunities i.e. TOLERANCE, not DESIRE), ignoring their looks to a great fault- but a good portion of women including myself have avoided the fratboy/businessman our whole lives and want attractive tall men who hit the gym a lot (and can quote Thomas Hardy
I mean it's not THAT hard, guys...my advice for young or single dudes is 1. hit the gym 2. take care of your skin here in Florida 3. hit the gym and 4. hit the gym.
Young men today may be confused but (MENTALLY HEALTHY) quality women are not looking for the Jordan Petersons and Gavin McInneses of the world, they are avoiding them ACTIVELY. Like targeting them a mile away and rooting them out. Women are looking for good stable partners who are going to be attractive and strong physically for the duration. Period. Anything else is manipulative, self-serving pathology or capitalist propaganda.
I find this all very disheartening. It's always been important to me that I am attracted to a man to be with him, but whether or not he is conventionally handsome or "hot" has not mattered to me even a tiny bit. I'm much more inclined to enjoy the looks of a brutish-looking sort of guy with working hands and working muscles, not someone who has "hit the gym." Probably at least partially an unpopular opinion, but I find gym fitness to be one of two things: an acceptable- though not optimal- way to make sure the mechanics don't go bad before they're due, and; vanity. There are many who prefer the "beauty and the beast" dynamic more than the "power couple" or "beautiful duo," else such an archetype wouldn't exist. It's not a pathological inclination or preference. How much money he makes, also not important at this point in my life since my children are mostly raised, though earlier it mattered a lot because I had small children who needed stable, adequate provision. In any case, character has always been the make-or-break for me. [I was tricked though, so all of this is only as good as your "picker," and mine didn't develop properly.]
And social skills.... Really? Like doesn't let stew dribble off his beard while eating in public and thanks the waiter, or social skills like has an eloquent manner when speaking, or some such thing? Doesn't a good person do well enough just by being a good person? It's one thing to me to be concerned with social skills in a child- which I am- but an adult man? Is there some job he'll be required to do for you? I'm just asking because I've never even considered this. An ability to do what needs doing and interact with the people he needs to get things done is adequate to me. I'm curious about how you select for social skills. And applied to what/whom?
As for Jordan Peterson (I don't know who the other man is), he has been married for many decades and presumably has offered his family a stable longterm commitment and ample provision, and as far as I can tell, there are lots of women who find intelligence, ambition, and moral conviction very attractive. I don't think he would have had a hard time finding a wife even if he hadn't married a woman he met as a girl at 4 yrs old. As for all the women avoiding such men actively, well, if that's true and not just a projection of your personal taste, perhaps there is hope for a woman like me to find someone decent and aware who "hits" character development instead of the gym.
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Stacy Witscher wrote:Honestly, I think this obsession with looks or conventional success is highly overrated. My son, who is not considered conventionally attractive, does very well with women/ lovers/ whatever, because he's a people person, highly empathetic. That's different from my ex, the "people person" that is really just a herd animal. I'm not, I don't get it, but my point is different strokes.
I think that if he had bought into the nerd, incel schick his life would be vastly different. As in, it would have been sad and pathetic, but instead he's a vibrant, amazing person who is so much of a social butterfly that his family barely get time to spend with him.
“It’s said war—war never changes. Men do, through the roads they walk. And this road—has reached its end.”
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Jordan Holland wrote: And this was with a custom made, ideal profile with physically attractive pics.
Imagine an unattractive man with a realistic, honest profile now. I stated the statistic before that on apps like Tinder, women like only about 5% of men's profiles. What kind of psychological impact is this having? To someone who doesn't know what it's like to pretty much always be rejected it must seem trivial. And as this woman found out, it's not just about being rejected. It's the manner of rejection that makes it so hurtful. It's when people pretend to be interested, and then disappear. I personally think it would be relatively fine to be rejected outright, honestly. But this is just a theory because it has never happened to me. Of all the times I have asked a woman out who was available, they have always said yes. I would say about 90% of the time it's a lie. And of that ten percent, we have to deduct the ones who show up begrudgingly, determined to not have any fun at all costs, or the ones who keep cancelling over and over, and when asked if they want to call the whole thing off say, "Oh no, I definitely want to, I've just been SO busy!" I usually prefaced asking out a woman by asking if she was still available first. If she wanted to lie to get out of going on a date, she could have done so then and there and I would likely have never been the wiser. Maybe a few did. But a LOT didn't. I have since seen in several videos women openly admitting that they intentionally lie to guys and string them along to boost their own ego. I had actually suspected this over the years, but felt it was just too outlandish and cruel to be true, and that I must just be paranoid. I wonder how many times I missed an opportunity to ask out a potential soulmate because I was waiting on a liar who said yes.
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"The world is changed by your example, not your opinion." ~ Paulo Coelho
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Heather Staas wrote:Sometimes I think if women and men actually SAW the crap the other was getting on those social media/ dating sites they would suddenly UNDERSTAND why and what they were getting for reactions and communications.
There are a whole lot of assumptions flying around in this discussion, and there are also men and women saying "wait, that isn't the actual experience from here." Instead of being heard, they are being told they can't possibly be an accurate representation. Investment in ones own beliefs about the other genders experience rather than actually hearing what the other gender is telling you is sort of a dead end in creating meaningful relationship.
If you are a man and believe what you see in media meant to represent a specific hetero male fantasy, and have never asked an actual real woman what an actual real women's locker room looks like, that is a tiny miniscule example of what the "women's experience" is like, and what it's like to try to communicate and be understood.
(and just saw the post above about the man-profile-made-by-woman-to-be-perfect... let me tell you, "Perfect" on those sites SCREAMS fake/scam/lure. many woman develop a pretty good radar, and fast, about those sort of profiles)
Saying "hello" to someone may be "showing interest" to one and just a polite acknowledgement to another. I absolutely will shy away from any man who responds to a small salutation with an aggressive demand to have my personal phone number and meet immediately. And I don't owe them an explanation or even a reason. Just like passing someone on the street I will move on and get on with my life. We aren't in a relationship; I don't even consider that blowing someone off or ghosting or whatever.
“It’s said war—war never changes. Men do, through the roads they walk. And this road—has reached its end.”
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Imagine that that person has had nothing but bad experiences. Nothing but failure. Imagine that that person has decided to give the world one more chance to show that life is worth living before they choose to end it. And that chance is you.
Devoured by giant spiders without benefit of legal counsel isn't called "justice" where I come from!
-Amazon Women On The Moon
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Dc Stewart wrote:
Imagine that that person has had nothing but bad experiences. Nothing but failure. Imagine that that person has decided to give the world one more chance to show that life is worth living before they choose to end it. And that chance is you.
I can't picture a positive outcome for a relationship wherein my task is to rescue and nurture a wounded fawn who needs a reason to live, lest they end it all. That path leads straight into pity-fuck territory.
“It’s said war—war never changes. Men do, through the roads they walk. And this road—has reached its end.”
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Jordan Holland wrote:Imagine that that person has had nothing but bad experiences. Nothing but failure. Imagine that that person has decided to give the world one more chance to show that life is worth living before they choose to end it. And that chance is you. Please be kind.
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