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Permies' Potato experiments

 
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Anyone fancy taking part in a potato experiment? For example, to chit or not to chit, when/how to plant, whether chits should be white or green and whether to earth up? What else could we include? Climate zone and soil type and moisture would be whatever we have as well.
Does it sound like fun?
My potato plot last year


It would be nice to point to our own results, because plants don't read books (or the interweb!)
 
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I'll grow potatoes anyway, so I might as well help gather data for a citizen-science project. I'm not sure I have the spoons to really design experiments, but I can follow instructions and report back.
 
Nancy Reading
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Great Christopher! I think if you say how you normally grow them, we can see what we can try without causing too much extra work (or risk) to the participants.
 
Christopher Weeks
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Most typically, I plant small tubers uncut by placing them on top of the ground, putting some compost on top of them and then burying that in a lot of spoiled hay. But I've tried other things and am willing to dedicate a little space to whatever other practices want testing.
 
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I'm curious about the white sprouts vs. green sprouts question, because people swear by both.  I started growing potatoes in Feb. with the chit in the window so they grow green sprouts method.  But I've heard people say white sprouts are fine too.  So I might be able to grow green-sprout potatoes for the experiment.  But I don't want to be measured for any other variables, one thing at a time for data collection for me.  But yeah, count me in.
 
Nancy Reading
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Riona, I think green v white sprouts would be great for a first experiment!
We can try more variables if we get lots of people on board, but it's probably as well to start simple. For example we already have location (implies soil type, and climate) potato variety, growing style and size of starting potato that will vary between just the three of us.
I intend to plant fairly small amounts of three four different potato varieties I grew last year - pink fir apple and 'Skye Blue' potato, also an early white potato that I sell in the shop and planted some sprouting ones that seems to do quite well, but I don't know the variety. I also have a very small amount of a blue early that I can't remember the name of. I grew it last year, but it didn't crop that well so I only have a few tubers to try again this year - probably not really enough to include in an experiment though.
 
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From that other thread, to test my wet-freeze hypothesis, if someone on clay where potatoes rot were to dig a yard-deep hole, fill it with sand and then leave potatoes about 3-4 inches down to overwinter, unless their land is *really* wet, that should provide a good test.

I could do the reverse if I could find some clay to work with.
Staff note (Nancy Reading) :

https://permies.com/t/136237/early-start-potatoes-mistake#2165796 - link to discussion about planting early and frost

 
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Nancy Reading wrote:a blue early that I can't remember the name of.



The first early purple potatoes that I'm growing have now got an official name, 'Vitanoire'.

I've just got my seed potatoes delivered this afternoon in fact (see picture).

I'm going to experiment with chitting them successionally, as various sources insist you can start planting as early as February.  

I will have to protect the top growth carefully, though: I'd expect leaves around 6 weeks after planting chitted potatoes, and our average last frost is mid-May!
2023-Vitanoire-seed-potatoes.jpg
Ten kilos of purple first early seed potatoes (dark purple skin & often body too)
Ten kilos of purple first early seed potatoes (dark purple skin & often body too)
 
Riona Abhainn
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Sharing data info.\:  I will obtain organic potatoes from the grocery store with which to grow this year, I'll sprout one pot worth in the dark with the white sprouts, I'll ssprout one pot worth in the window with green sprouts.  That's unfortunately likely all I'll have room for, because growing plants on my patio at my apartment.  I'll make sure both are the same type as much as possible when buying at the store.
 
Nancy Reading
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Ac Baker wrote:The first early purple potatoes that I'm growing have now got an official name, 'Vitanoire'.

I've just got my seed potatoes delivered this afternoon in fact (see picture).



Thanks AC - I know you had told me, but it slipped my memory - beautiful potatoes, and I do have a few to give them another chance. Do you fancy chitting one batch in light and dark to see if it makes a difference to the yield?
 
Nancy Reading
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Riona - one pot of each will be fine. By pooling results from all of us we will get a more general idea of whether the green sprouts make a real difference or not. If we try and keep everything else consistent in our own patch - size and number of potatoes, planting and watering arrangement then we get a result from each person and look for the differences overall.
The only thing extra we would need to do is assess the quality or quantity of the potato crop when we dig them. Ideally this would mean digging at least some of each at the same time, which isn't always easy on a home scale as you might want just enough for one meal. I think if we do at least weigh the useable potatoes and harvest alternately the results would still be useful however.
 
Riona Abhainn
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Hopefully if I plant them at the same time then I can harvest them all at the same time, potatoes store well after all.  Looking forward to science.
 
Nancy Reading
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I've put my potatoes on to chit...They had been in my shed in a bright but cool place, so no sprouting there. So I have brought them into the house, where it ought to be warmer. Out of interest I'm going to try to replicate Rhiona's experiment .
As well as these potatoes placed on the windowsill as I normally do, I have put some in the cardboard box underneath - so they are the same temperature approximately as the ones in the light. As a third variation I have put just a few in the 'fridge where they ought to stay dormant and dark. I'm hoping to plant them at the start of April, when hopefully there will be a noticable difference between the different locations. I have four different varieties - all home saved: pink fir apple and Skye blue are both maincrop varieties, I have a smooth white skinned potato I think came from my shop as a 'salad potato' which seems to be an early variety, and the lovely blue potatoes from AC which we think are second early.
So what will be interesting is if we get different dates of foliage showing, and different ultimate yields.
chitting-potatoes.jpg
do potatoes need to be chitted
Potatoes on to chit on windowsill
 
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The other day I uncovered a healthy Papa Chonca purple potato that had survived the winter perfectly, close to the surface of the soil. I have also been in general beginning a winter-hardy self-seeding landrace potato project and let the seeds fall onto the garden soil. They should come up as weeds now. So far the project has been successful, with all the seed-grown potatoes surviving the winter before last. They all came up late spring/early summer, when the soil had warmed, so I think that must be the most natural time in our area for chitted potatoes to be planted. I am excited to start some new seeds, but they are all either in the garden soil seed bank waiting for warm weather or in packets, and if only I remembered where I put those packets…

I’ve also saved a few of each potato variety inside, so that there is a backup in case something bad happens—winter rodent predation, or I-don’t-even-know. Worry-mind.
 
Nancy Reading
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Maieshe Ljin wrote:I have also been in general beginning a winter-hardy self-seeding landrace potato project and let the seeds fall onto the garden soil. They should come up as weeds now. So far the project has been successful, with all the seed-grown potatoes surviving the winter before last. They all came up late spring/early summer, when the soil had warmed.


That is really interesting Maieshe. So you just let them seed around? I'd love to do that here, but I suspect they will need a bit of help getting started. I gather they need a reasonable season to be able to form a tuber for overwintering. I certainly haven't managed to collect all my potato-fruit, and there is no sign yet of a weed problem. I do have some berries from last year, and that reminds me to decide what to do with them. Since my propagator is full of tea Camellia seeds, I may just ferment the seeds out of the berries and save them for next year. I'm pretty sure I read that the seeds actually have better germination the second year than the first, which seems odd which is why it stuck in  my mind. I think it was from William Whitson at Cultivariable.
 
Maieshe Ljin
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This about self-seeding is mostly theoretical because I have only had two growing seasons for this project so far. There was one potato that came up and survived competition with an overbearing tomato and was able to make one long, large, bright pink tuber along with what seemed to be dozens of berries, so I’m hoping that among those a few will find the conditions suitable. I think I tried to collect some fruit but along with much else they would seem to be lost, to be found 150 years from now and germinated by curious botanists.
 
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I plant as many potatoes as I can on Good Friday.  It is 3-5 days after the first full moon after the Spring Equinox.  I have several kinds that I saved from last year and several others that I ordered.  I plant them in a 4” trench and cover them.  Then hill them as they grow,  After they reach 12” or more I mulch with straw, or whatever I have around.
If it does not rain for more than 2 days I water them.  I use soaker hoses   Spacing the plants will influence potato size.  If you want lunkers, go for 18’ apart.  If you have fingerlings or want smaller potatoes, plant them 12” apart.  I almost never cut the potatoes in pieces before planting.  Usually that’s because I have to many to get in the ground and I don’t need more pieces to plant.  As far as the seeds that form, I usually let them be but have been told to pick them off because they detract energy from the growing plant.  Not sure how I can fit into your experiment.  I never plant them in the same ground two years in a row to discourage the potatoe beetles.  I ususally pick them off rather than using spray.  I was considering planting a companion plant with the potatoes, and can report on how that affects the crop.  Still have to decide which companion plant and if they will be in the rows or if there will be a pattern of 2-3 potato rows then a companion row and back to potatoes.   I could try more than one companion plant.  That would be my experiment.   To see if companion planting with potatoes is advantageous to growth and insect pressure.  


 
Maieshe Ljin
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Nancy Reading wrote:That is really interesting Maieshe. So you just let them seed around? I'd love to do that here, but I suspect they will need a bit of help getting started. I gather they need a reasonable season to be able to form a tuber for overwintering. I certainly haven't managed to collect all my potato-fruit, and there is no sign yet of a weed problem. I do have some berries from last year, and that reminds me to decide what to do with them. Since my propagator is full of tea Camellia seeds, I may just ferment the seeds out of the berries and save them for next year. I'm pretty sure I read that the seeds actually have better germination the second year than the first, which seems odd which is why it stuck in  my mind. I think it was from William Whitson at Cultivariable.



Another thing is that I don’t think they need to be that big to overwinter successfully in good garden soil. I grew them from seeds started inside originally, but then transplanted them into a very weedy grassy section of the garden. Many of them ended up coming back even though they couldn’t have made any substantial tubers, some of them apparently from either tiny tubers or even rhizome sections. And I tried to save them inside, but the remnants hiding in the soil ended up doing far better than the “saved” potatoes (i.e. growing as opposed to shriveling in bad storage conditions)
 
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I've done a few potatoe experiments myself over the years.

I've found small to medium seed potatoes grow faster than large seed potatoes.

Placing on the ground and covering with hay worked but it's much to dry here and would require even more irrigation.

Cross pollinating different varieties by hand increased the number of berries produced.

I removed sprouts from potatoes and rooted them in moist soil and managed to get an average crop from the plant. (Essentially propagating a potatoe exactly like one would propagate sweet potatoe.

I've tried hilling, not hilling, mulching and a combination and have settled on not hilling and heavy mulch.
 
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Last year, I did them in rows and added soil as time went by as well as mulch. They did OK, but only OK.
This year, I plan to grow them in half barrel containers and mix determinates and indeterminates in the same container. I heard that you get a bigger crop this way. I also plan to add more amendments than I did last year.
I'm not sure about chitting them. I have always made sure there is one eye per cut potato and I allow the potato to cull. I suspect chitting them by removing all eyes but one would make sure that the reserves saved in a whole potato would give more energy to the plant. Maybe I'll do them both ways, just to see.
 
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Still winter here so the potatoes will not be here until later in the year, think mid April to May.   Those will be split between an in ground bed in front and grow bags in back. Not much experimenting to them since I am learning what works here.   My big experiment this year will be the TPS I ordered from Going to Seed.  Over the past few years I have been reading about growing potatoes this way and know I can get help if I need it here or in other online forums I am in.  
 
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By accident I planted 13 potatoes this week. I was digging some stones out of my garden soil, and found a bed of potatoes that I missed last fall. They are in good condition and still dormant, so I just separated them and planted each in it's own hole. Normal potato planting time here is late April, but leaving them in the ground through even very cold winters doesn't seem to hurt them, so they should be Okay. So I guess this is sort of an accidental experiment.

This plot is intended as a corn field, but that won't get planted until May, so the potatoes have a good chance to get going well before the corn is too big and shades them.
 
Cécile Stelzer Johnson
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Thom Bri wrote:By accident I planted 13 potatoes this week. I was digging some stones out of my garden soil, and found a bed of potatoes that I missed last fall. They are in good condition and still dormant, so I just separated them and planted each in it's own hole. Normal potato planting time here is late April, but leaving them in the ground through even very cold winters doesn't seem to hurt them, so they should be Okay. So I guess this is sort of an accidental experiment.

This plot is intended as a corn field, but that won't get planted until May, so the potatoes have a good chance to get going well before the corn is too big and shades them.



I'm not sure where you're at, Thom, but I'd bank in Il. zone 6? I live near Wisconsin Rapids, in what used to be zone 4b, now zone 5 [especially this winter!] I had a similar situation with at least 2 potatoes that I must have missed: the next year, they did come up. Since it was early spring, like mid April, they looked like new potatoes. The mother was just black skin, but the new potatoes were delicious. I wondered about planting them in the late late fall, like November, although it is quite chancy, I suspect. There was a fair amount of mulch over it, like over 6". It might be a good idea, just for giggles to plant half a dozen and mark them, just to see. I don't think I would take the chance to do all of them that way since our growing season is more than long enough to get nice potatoes, but maybe someone way further North might be inspired if their season is really short?
Right now, I'm looking for which potatoes are determinate and which are indeterminate and who sells them. There are long lists in the article below. My understanding is that: "Determinate potatoes produce a single layer of tubers just below the soil surface. They produce fewer tubers than indeterminate ones, but they tend to be earlier, even much earlier, most maturing in 55 to 70 days".
https://laidbackgardener.blog/2020/04/05/determinate-and-indeterminate-potatoes/#:~:text=Determinate%20potatoes%20produce%20a%20single,in%2055%20to%2070%20days.
"Indeterminate potatoes are capable of producing tubers at multiple levels, so, although you plant them at the same depth as determinate potatoes (4 inches/10 cm), you will need to keep mounding soil, mulch, chopped leaves or straw up around the plant as the season progresses. This mounding will not only help support their tall, often floppy stems, but tubers will form in the increasingly high mounds, to a maximum of up to about 1 foot (30 cm) above the original level.
So I'm planning to plant indeterminate as early as I can in my half barrels, and in the same barrels, plant the determinate potatoes. with a little extra help, I might be able to really fill my barrels with potatoes. Intensive culture!
 
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Thom Bri wrote:By accident I planted 13 potatoes this week. I was digging some stones out of my garden soil, and found a bed of potatoes that I missed last fall. They are in good condition and still dormant, so I just separated them and planted each in it's own hole. Normal potato planting time here is late April, but leaving them in the ground through even very cold



I've been planting fall/winter potatoes for several years now. New potatoes are ready to be harvested as early as the Memorial weekend. By late June they are all ready and I am able to use the plot for warm season crop. But the potatoes will keep as well as fall potatoes and start to sprout in December and I start the cycle again.

In early December I planted 90 potatoes 3 inches deep in the ground and mulch another 3-4 inches. During the cold arctic blast down to -20C/-5F, I put layers of cardboards on top for extra insulation. I checked the tubers out last month, they were firm and starting to grow. I just remove the cardboard layer to get them going. Usually in the spring here we can have a whole month of warm temperature and goes down below freezing for two nights when a cold front comes through. I just need to cover the plants up temporarily. It's not feasible for large area but worthwhile for a backyard garden.
Resized_20231203_093807.jpeg
Dec 03 planting winter potatoes
Dec 03 planting winter potatoes
20240304_083123.jpg
March 04 potato sprouting
March 04 potato sprouting
 
Thom Bri
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Cécile Stelzer Johnson wrote:

Thom Bri wrote:

I'm not sure where you're at, Thom, but I'd bank in Il. zone 6?



N Illinois, near Rockford.

I have no idea what kind of potatoes these are. Random white flesh/brown skins. I plant a mix of whatever, and harvest whatever makes it. Potatoes are low priority, I plant them more for fun. Enjoy digging for them, like a treasure hunt. Last year was one bag of commercial seed potatoes, a bag of store bought 'golden', and a bag of mixed colors mini potatoes. All produced something, but I should have bought them a month early and prepped them for planting. Probably would have had better germination.

 
Cécile Stelzer Johnson
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So, May, essentially you are planting potatoes like I plant garlic: harvest in the summer/fall, sort and replant then mulch.
That's extremely interesting: In the Spring by the end of planting season, I'm pooped out. Having a secondary planting season in the Fall is a relief. This year, when I harvest, I will hold some over for replanting, just to see. I'm not sure I will plant these in half barrels, though: They would be more likely to freeze hard & die. If I were to do that and see them coming out in the spring, perhaps I could lift them and give them the barrel treatment, although, maybe that would be unnecessary, since they would be going already.
 
Riona Abhainn
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For the last two months I've been chitting potatoes, two in the dark and two in the light, the ones in the dark have grown long brittle white sprouts.  The ones in the light have grown green clumpy robust sprouts.  I shall plant both and see which ones grow best.  I can't plant a ton since its exclusive container gardening for me as I only have a patio.  I'll be planting them on Sat.
 
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Hello Permie experimenters!

I'm trying potatoes again. Success has been elusive. I have some pre-chitted organic potatoes from the grocery store. But how long should these chits be at planting time?



This is 4 days after purchase.
 
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How are these potato experiments coming along?

Has it gotten warm enough in your part of the world to plant outside?

I am noticing trees and plants budding out.
 
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Joylynn Hardesty wrote:Hello Permie experimenters!

I'm trying potatoes again. Success has been elusive. I have some pre-chitted organic potatoes from the grocery store. But how long should these chits be at planting time?
This is 4 days after purchase.





I sure looks like they are willing. In our zone, 4b or 5, depending whom you want to believe, they should be planted from early April through early May on sandy soils, and from mid-April through late May in northern Wisconsin.
Potatoes can be planted from late April through early July on muck soils depending on soil moisture conditions and intended market.
Also, they recommend: Plant about 2 to 4 weeks before your last frost date. The soil temperature should be at least 40 F. Do not plant where you've grown potatoes, tomatoes, peppers or eggplant in the past 2 years.
They sell temperature indicators that you can shove in the ground.
In zone 7, you might be able to plant them now? [If you have some potato growers near you, ask them or your County extension office.]
 
Marc Dube
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Anne Miller wrote:How are these potato experiments coming along?

Has it gotten warm enough in your part of the world to plant outside?

I am noticing trees and plants budding out.




I'm excited to start this year's garden and experiments but with the recent snow and wind the garden is sitting under a 4 foot snow bank.
 
Riona Abhainn
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Potatoes, planted in their pots.  In my area we plant potatoes in early March, even though some years we haven't had last frost yet, when the potatoes are in the ground they're hearty enough to handle it for a couple of weeks as long as its not frequent.  They say chits should be an inch long, but I'd just say start chitting two months before you plant.  Last year I only chitted for one month before I planted, but this year I knew to give them more time, they will thus likely grow faster.  If they're not exactly an inch that's fine, mine weren't last year but they still made potatoes.  This year they're longer.  I'm planting my radishes tomorrow.
 
Nancy Reading
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I planted my potatoes out at the weekend. I have a mixture of varieties and had some chitting on the windowsill (some in the light, some in a cardboard box). I also left some in the fridge (so dark/cool) to try and keep them dormant. They were put there about the middle of February so have had 6 weeks. By the looks of it some of them could have had a bit longer, but it feels time to plant them out now.
This is how they looked before planting:
chitting potatoes
potatoes chitted on light windowsill

chitting potatoes
potatoes chitted in cardbord box

chitting potatoes
potatoes chitted in fridge

So it looks like the shoots are biggest on the potatoes that were in the cardboard box. Two reasons that I would expect this - one is that plant shoots do tend to elongate in the dark. You see this when seedlings tend to stetch and bend toward the light. The other reason I believe is temperature related (which might be the subject of another experiment :) ). Although both the box and the open potatoes were on the same windowsill, the box will have insulated the potatoes inside from temperature fluctuations. Being behind our window curtains, the exposed ones will have got pretty cold over night, whereas the ones in the box would stay slightly warmer, so a bit more active.
The potatoes in the fridge were of course mostly in the dark, so the sprouts are white. They are pretty small, which stacks up with low temperatures inhibiting growth.
There did seem to be a bit of difference between the sprouts between the different varieties (early, early purple, pink fir apple, Skye blue) under the same conditions. I assume this is related to different dormancies, so it may be possible that some may react more than others to different light conditions. I'm not sure my sample will be big enough to really notice this though, if it is a small effect, given the yields will vary on each plant anyhow.
I've planted them out in my south facing growing bed, hopefully I can remember which is which! I did make a diagram of how they were planted. I'm going to try and note when I see sprouts above the ground next. Other than than I'll try and treat them all the same now, other than hopefully being able to harvest the early varieties sooner.
 
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Joining the experiment with my heritage potato experiment mixed with beginner gardener folly.

Planted three varieties in feed bags yesterday, since we did so well last year with soil bags. My garden calendar recommended today, though we now have some snow in the forecast. I may put them in the basement for the snow.

We planted lumpers, Keuka gold, and katahdin potatoes; all chitted.
 
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It looks like I'll be trying some experimental potatoes, even though it wasn't planned. Some nice yellows we had in the cold room have put off sprouts so I've set them out and will get them in the ground.
I'm just not sure when to plant. I'm zone 6b, Canada and this is new property for us. Should I just go ahead and put them out soon or at least pot them up?
Also, opinions on if I should go for the dry, north section or the wet, south area? It's all sandy loam so that should be good but I'm not sure how water needy/tolerant they are. ( we were on heavy clay with much more limited space and potatoes were cheap enough to not be worth the effort/space)
IMG_2671.JPG
chitting potatoes
 
Joylynn Hardesty
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How wet is wet? Here is what I did to fix my soggy area.

My potatoes would end up as microbe feasts. I am trying again this spring. First spring with potatoes since we fixed the soggy.
 
Maieshe Ljin
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I was just out in the garden and found some berries on the ground from the fall. I’m guessing that means they are pre-stratified and will germinate more easily. Maybe the cold frame is a good place for them? I suppose I can also start them indoors in pots with the rest of the nightshades. I’m excited because this one is likely to have some Papa Chonca genetics mixed in, which is already roughly an ideal potato here. That variety also made a couple berries, but not as many as the Grand High Potato (my name for the large pink seedling variety) so perhaps they will come up in the garden if I don’t find them.

There are also a large quantity of over-chitted potatoes due to poor storage conditions. It is good re-reading to hear that it takes around six weeks for them to emerge; that means I should plant them around mid-April, so it will be necessary to try the sweet potato style of propagation. I’ve tried it with cutting the tips and stems off, rooting them in water, and then planting in pots. But I haven’t gotten a harvest yet, and if Marc or anyone else wants to elaborate on their method I’d be interested to hear.

Edit: it used to be bright pink. Now it just looks sort of dusty and old.
IMG_0035.jpeg
Grand High Potato—large, pink, excellent storage even in terrible conditions
Grand High Potato—large, pink, excellent storage even in terrible conditions
IMG_0034.jpeg
Seeds from GHP fruit
Seeds from GHP fruit
RenderedImage.jpeg
Shortly after harvest
Shortly after harvest
 
Dian Green
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Joylynn Hardesty wrote:How wet is wet? Here is what I did to fix my soggy area.

My potatoes would end up as microbe feasts. I am trying again this spring. First spring with potatoes since we fixed the soggy.



Luckily, not that wet! It is just that the south section ends in a small creek. There isn't much of a slope so it has a high water table. It doesn't flood, from what we've heard and seen. ( township guy said one bout that happened in a Jan was the highest he had seen in 10 years and it didn't go over our bank) Usually the creek is 5-6 feet below the bank.
It looks more like it shouldn't need as much watering as the north and Im sticking to trees that can handle wet feet in that section. An apple, tulip tree and redbud are all doing well. They had a lilac that was struggling and the magnolias might be having some issues. ( I've moved the lilac and am considering the magnolias)
 
Joylynn Hardesty
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I found a statment that potatoes should be planted 2 to 4 weeks before last frost date. So I went ahead and planted them at about March 15 This is what they loked like.



 
Joylynn Hardesty
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Here is the place where I planted them. They are in a zigzag pattern in a 24 ft row right beside the rye grass.



..And look who is peeping out today!

 
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