Permies Poll: Do you live off-grid?

Oxford Dictionary defines off-grid as "not using or depending on public utilities, especially the supply of electricity."

I live right smack dab in a village so I'm tied in for electricity and water. It has its perks of course but one day I'd love to own some property in a more rural setting.

Went 100% off the grid in 1983 and have never looked back.
Solar and hydro

We have been living off the grid for four years now. We love our decision to go off the grid; the independence is worthwhile. We heat water with an evacuated tube system, and our electricity is an 8,000-watt solar panel system with five 100-amp-hour LifePo4 batteries. Water is a rainwater collection system in a 6000-gal cistern.

I live so remotely compared with civil infrastructure I had to be off grid.
I use flat plate collectors for hot water because they do not get as damaged as evacuated tubes and are really only marginally less efficient.
I store 200,000 litres of fresh rainwater and about 2 million litres of dam water for irrigation and fish.
My solar electric is always being fiddled with.
\Currently I have an 240V outlet which has the wrong Hertz so that needs sorting!!!
Washing machine and evaporative cooler will not work as a result.

I've been off-grid for 3.5 years.

I currently have electricity and internet, but the place is up for sale - and our 20 acres of bliss we are moving to is completely off-grid. super quiet, and a 360 degree mountain view.
we use a 720 watt 12 volt solar array here to power my Ham radios, and make some 120 stuff run with an 1800 watt true sine inverter - all of this is 25 years old, so probably update to 48 volts and a wind-turbine, since the new place has a bit more air movement. - we normally hit around $52 a month for the electric at this place. a 120 foot deep well. and lots of rain!

Off grid and have been for 21 years. Can’t beat it. It’s some work but not too difficult.

Rob, lots of rain and yet you run a well.
Was it habit or lack of confidence with rainwater  to use just rainwater?
I actively encourage use of rainwater alone since I believe its cleaner and better value than well water.

Our power is from a PV array and LiFePO4 battery bank with a generator for backup in the winter. We have a well and gravity water pressure system - there is a storage tank up the hill from the house and well so no power is needed except when the well refills the tank. The primary heat source is a wood stove. Cooking and backup heat use propane. Our Internet access is via fixed wireless radio and our 'home phone' is via the Internet connection (VOIP).

Changing from lead acid batteries to LiFePO4 has been great. Less maintenance and less generator run time. The batteries are a DIY setup based on cells ordered from China.

Overall a good experience, especially when the local electric utility was offline for about three days and we still had power. The only downside is the inability to run large loads like a freeze dryer overnight unless you have a very large battery bank or fall back to a generator. We've been off grid about 6-7 years.

Neither diagram describes me. I have redundant systems. One is the grid; the other is a solar 12v dc. The two are not connected.  The green or blue outlets in my home connect to the 12v.  

John C Daley wrote:Rob, lots of rain and yet you run a well.
Was it habit or lack of confidence with rainwater  to use just rainwater?
I actively encourage use of rainwater alone since I believe its cleaner and better value than well water.

John,
I bought this place in 1992 after getting a divorce and needing a place to at least store what I had left.
Now, I grew up on what would be called a homestead nowadays, and I never knew people didn't process their own food.
As in: at 10 years old I had to feed the horses before I could have breakfast. I had to process the meat birds every spring -completely. also the meat rabbits. it was my job to make sure we had enough kindling for the next week before I could go play on the weekends. at 12 I was handed a chainsaw and then it was also my job to put up 3 cords of firewood before I got summer break. as a kid, having the the rest of summer completely free to just go, and having as far as I could walk in the coast range available to explore, I think i was pretty spoiled.
and motivated to fill the woodshed!
and no, if I was out exploring and not home, I didn't have to feed any animals. at 11, I was gone for a couple weeks at a time, by myself, "backpacking/exploring. I have actually woken up to being surrounded by a herd of elk.
 so - after the divorce in  92, I bought 10 wooded acres- already had a manufactured home, already had the well. my job had me on the road for a week or two at a time. so until I was getting close to retirement, I didn't have much time to make this what I wanted.
I have had tanks to catch rainwater for the garden - but most of the buildings had asphalt shingles and I am not about to try and poison myself when the well costs me about $1.85 a month on the electric bill. convenience, for the most part.
roofs got replaced with steel as it came about, also, the 50 acre grass seed field to the south of me is a well established Canadian goose zone during their migrations. so for a little over a week twice a year, it is a given that everything - including vertical walls and windows - will get strafed with goose poop. extremely covered.
Now that I have neighbors on the other three sides - across the road for two of those sides sides, I have a 20 mph corner and  road on two sides -I no longer have the tranquil place I wanted to retire to - I have purchased 20 acres out where there is no one, in the high desert that gets about 1 foot of rain a year. 4386 feet, it shows on the gps and the county records.
I will still do as much rain catch as I can - everything will have steel roofs - but I will still have to supplement, and as I get more attached to this 20, I don't even want to leave, even to haul water.
I can haul 700 gallons at a time, so with the catch at certain times of the year, I will only have to haul once a month. Summer - keeping the garden (mostly greenhouse) as well as my needs - will be twice a month.
I have two 550 tanks I was using to catch, and transport legal I have a 325 and a 425. and before the flaming starts on vehicle capabilities, I have a one ton dually truck and a 14k 18' flatbed trailer. I could haul over 1200 gallons and not be overloaded legally. common sense tells me not to consistently load a live load to capacity.
 the 1550 tanks will be for water storage, be it clean rain catch or hauled.
but if I ever find a well driller with an "on sale special" I will get a well drilled, as I don't want to beat my truck and trailer up on the incredibly rough roads hauling water for the rest of my life. directions to my 20 include "turn off the paved road 11 miles out of the unincorporated town, go down that gravel road to my un-named county dirt road and go 1/2 mile on the barely wide enough for a pickup road.  I was out there last week and it is frozen hard - and the dirt road is fill of puddles (currently frozen - 1 degree F when I arrived) - only one of the puddles of ice broke for that half a mile - so it was mini ice road truckin'. LOL
short answer, I was never home long enough to do the current place any justice, and with the very restrictive county I am currently in - one MUST mow grass/vegetation over 6" tall, or they will come in with their machines and destroy it all, and then bill you for three people and two machines at an extremely high rate. so instead of trying to fight it all, I am escaping.
I hope the long version doesn't make you sorry you asked!

We're off grid for water/sewage, but on grid for electric. Toying with the idea of going off grid for electric too - will probably have several different generation schemes to create resilience and redundancy - micro hydro and solar, maybe wind.

I have been looking for a place. Real estate prices went crazy so I am waiting to see what happens.  Hopefully I will find someone needing to sell a part of their land.
I live in a small city that has its own power and water.  I store about 300 gallons of water in barrels, have a sun oven, a laundry station,  a solar generator and started raising quail.   Last year I made the decision to start getting use to using these things.  It was a good decision.  Found I lacked a cable that went to the solar panels to recharge the generator.  Also figured I needed to get a few more panels for my energy needs.  
I just got a radio for communications and am learning how to use it as well as networking with others to practice using them.  
Using what I have when it’s not an emergency has taught me where I need to improve.

Nancy Gardner wrote:I have been looking for a place. Real estate prices went crazy so I am waiting to see what happens.  Hopefully I will find someone needing to sell a part of their land.
I live in a small city that has its own power and water.  I store about 300 gallons of water in barrels, have a sun oven, a laundry station,  a solar generator and started raising quail.   Last year I made the decision to start getting use to using these things.  It was a good decision.  Found I lacked a cable that went to the solar panels to recharge the generator.  Also figured I needed to get a few more panels for my energy needs.  
I just got a radio for communications and am learning how to use it as well as networking with others to practice using them.  
Using what I have when it’s not an emergency has taught me where I need to improve.

Nancy -you are spot on with getting used to things prior to emergencies - and how you train will become how you respond very quickly with practice. I am a Ham operator plus GMRS as well. I have a couple repeaters and help people whenever I can with radio. I will never claim to be an expert, but I do work a lot of events - for practice, and I just worked a 200 mile dogsled race - that was the most awesome thing I have ever done!
I might be able to answer some radio questions - and I am sure there are others, but it is a field I am pretty strong in.
also, land is fairly cheap still where I am going - maybe a pm if you are interested. if you don't like high desert and sagebrush, might not be "the Place"

Nancy -you are spot on with getting used to things prior to emergencies - and how you train will become how you respond very quickly with practice. I am a Ham operator plus GMRS as well. I have a couple repeaters and help people whenever I can with radio. I will never claim to be an expert, but I do work a lot of events - for practice, and I just worked a 200 mile dogsled race - that was the most awesome thing I have ever done!
I might be able to answer some radio questions - and I am sure there are others, but it is a field I am pretty strong in.
also, land is fairly cheap still where I am going - maybe a pm if you are interested. if you don't like high desert and sagebrush, might not be "the Place"

Thanks for the offer. I need to program my radio. I messed up when ordering it and got a spare battery that doesn’t fit the radio.  Since I bought it last summer I can’t return it.  Lesson learned. I have the cable to plug into my computer to program it.  I just need to schedule time.   I have a book on getting my license and about using the radio.   I have two friend who live within two miles.  We hope to learn together so if the phones stop working we can still communicate plus we can listen to find out what is going on.  

I live in southeastern Michigan. Was looking to move out of the state as cost of living here is high.  I have been to the southwest.  It is beautiful.  I don’t know what it takes to live in that environment except the need to trap as much of the rain as possible on the land to encourage vegetation growth.  I am debating on where to live.  How close to town.  Etc

I am 60 miles down a dirt road, 25 miles from the nearest electricity, and a 2 hour drive to the nearest grocery store.  The US Postal Service will not even deliver to me!

thomas rubino wrote:Went 100% off the grid in 1983 and have never looked back.
Solar and hydro

You're a pioneer. Wow.

I'm on mains electricity from a large rural cooperative. And we have gigabit fiber from the local native band. Those are true grid connections. We also have propane trucked in which is slightly grid-removed but also entirely non self-sufficient. Our wood heat is good enough that we could survive on it, but not good enough to be really comfortable. We pull our own water out of the ground using grid electric (but also have the ability to hand-pump it up). And we have a septic system which is pretty autonomous, but depends on use.

Off grid and non-electric 44 years, still enjoying the good life. Keeping it simple!

Jen, funny, I forgot that PO part of it myself - the property is  nka - "no known Address" - seems to be peculiar in that county - but even the people in the municipal cluster - no mail delivery. the PO boxes takes years on the wait list, so "general delivery" is all we will get. apparently the DMV is willing to use RTS (range, Section,Township, and then lot) for drivers license. but good luck getting things delivered.

Nancy - if your radios can be computer programmed, sometimes you have to use the factory software, lots but not always a Program called "Chirp" will be able to work it, and makes it very easy to setup what you want. I have several (many, most hams have a fetish for collecting them all!) different brands and models of radios - I really like that it is basically in an excel style - so one can copy and paste into another radio file.
other than very specific event programs, I have every radio setup identical - I don't use "channel" much, but every data entry location is the same - so if I am out remote from my gear, I can tell someone at my base to go to a channel on my base to get where we have better coverage.
biggest thing to remember - antenna is the most important part. the best radio can't get out without a decent antenna, but a crappy radio can get out good with a good antenna. the factory rubber duck style that come on most HT's usually need an upgrade....

out where I am going the people will share water out of their well with you if they have one - for a while at least, until you can get setup. I have three places that have already offered. I have found a community of people that I should have landed in many years ago. seems like the best of people have escaped out there.

Rob Dooley, you can apply for an address if you have a livable permanent structure.  The county will come out check out your place and issue an address.  I had to do this to get a mortgage on my property.  Then the post office is obligated to give you a PO box for free!!

I doubt they are on Permies, but they should be! Jeff, Rose and their daughters are off grid pioneers in BC, Canada. They moved onto their piece of forest and lived in a tent while clearing land and building a home. It's been over 10 years and they still don't have indoor running water (but they do have an impressive water system and hockey pond). They post semi-regular videos about their adventures and off grid living. There are videos describing their power system, micro hydro, a gassifier build, root cellar build, butchering animals, hunting, their version of a willow feeder, gardening, debt free living, etc. Jeff often tells viewers "you can do this" and is very encouraging when it comes to independent off grid living. Here's a link to their Gridlessness Explained playlist:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLN0UqxdwirhfxzCSdIKJjGfrJKRE7xPNv

Howdy,
off grid since 1980(+/-)  Year round creek thru property with small scale hydro. Some solar panels added in 1990. When I bought this property (1978) the power company wanted 3x the price of property to bring power up here, $32,000.  It's 40 acres of Oregon Mtn land, end of steep driveway, with borders on BLM and USFS land.  I am 73 and may be getting to old for this, have no idea where I could/would move to. I do like it here! PEACE, nature and solitude.

On grid in this suburban "hell", however with the increasing electric rates, plus I'm kinda sorta not going to register my chickens with the county.  I think I'll be placing this place on the market come spring.  As the ole folks once said enuff is enuff!!

Rob Dooley, you can apply for an address if you have a viable permanent living structure.  The county will come out check out your place and issue an address.  I had to do this to get a mortgage on my property.  Then the post office is obligated to give you a PO box for free!!

I'd vote in the poll but the apple and peoples choice thing makes no sense to me so I'll just post an answer:

We built on raw forest land in south central WA 15 years ago. There are power lines approximately two miles away as the crow flies but it would take literally $250,000 minimum to set poles and string wire to us and that was the estimate before we built. Needless to say we just chuckled and designed to be off grid from the beginning. No, there could/would be no cost share through any program. There are literally no utilities of any kind available. There is no cell signal from any of the providers for 20 miles. Originally 2 separate 48vdc solar implementations were put in place: the first was 800 watts for the water well and the second was 2925 watts for the house and outbuildings. Communications to the outside world are via satelite, one for entertainment (DirecTV) and the other for internet and phone calls (DishNet then Hughes and now Starlink).

We have made a few changes over the years which were to eliminate the solar for the well and just power it from the house system. And 4 years ago we changed from using lead batteries to 15kW of LifeP04 blocks. We enjoy many 'luxuries' of modern life with the exception of things like an airfryer, a hair blow dryer and other such power hogs. As it is now the power is pretty much hands off and maintenance free except in the winter we have to run a generator to charge the batteries for 3 hours a day from mid Nov through mid Feb. Heating is a woodburner and propane heats water and runs the kitchen stove.

Access is via an unimproved logging trail with steep grades and switchbacks and is 4WD all year. We love it more than can be expressed. It is mostly very quiet until hunting season when the poachers and trespassers invade.

off grid (elec & water) since March 2021.  In Puerto Rico. Supplies are an issue.
   rebuilding our water collection system (again) as we need larger capacity AND had some filtering issues.
Would love to find a comprehensive guide to repurposing IBCs for this purpose.

The 'homestead' my wife and I live on is a renovated cabin on a section of timber the original characters built up here in the early '70s. Our family owns the adjacent half section as well, two small cabins. 1000ac total surrounded by Crown land, 2.5 mi. lakefront. All well off grid. No immediate neighbors. Varying degrees of wood heat and propane cooking, solar/batteries and lake/snowmelt cooking/flushing water. House is plumbed, but well is arsenic contaminated, so buckets it is. Store about 700gal of solar pumped lake water for household and fire when climate/season allows. Lil'B grows and hand processes about 6000 organic garlic/year. 'Our family' is 5 guardian dogs, Anatolians and Maremas. 5 barn cats. Tuxedos and tabbies. End of the road. Everybody here has been rehomed/rejected from somewhere else. All have a home for as long as they wish to stay.
Four gardens in rotation. Small root cellar. Smallish greenhouse. Been told by the prime minister of sex and finance that I am building a larger earth sheltered one. Osprey, eagles, owls. Bears, wolves, coyotes, cougars. Moose and deer. Not the useless urban vermin kind.
Sawmill, plenty of reno and construction plans. Lil'B is the gardener, baker, and vet. I can build or fix about anything.

Rob thank you for your great response, its an interesting story.
Getting built out would be an unpleasant experience.
\ I have no immeadiate neighbours where I am, so I got that right. But blocks 1km from me are owned by "townies"
who have removed all undergrowth, drive fast down the roads and have no idea of why the rest of us used to enjoy the wildlife, the serenity and the
community we had formed.
There are 12 small properties, between 10 and 60 acres isolated in the forest, 5 of us  built shacks, but now the new wave are building
'forever' homes just as they do in cities, huge, 5 bedroom etc and forcing land costs up.
There are 8 of them and they do not appreciate the area at all.
They drop in to my place and wonder at its small footprint, the birds and wildlife around me and the seclusion I have.

I am connected to the electric grid.
But I have a son and his family that ended up here during Covid and decided to stay.
I have let him build an off grid cabin they call home on my property.
He has solar with generator back up.  Wood heat.
He hauls water from my well and does all of their laundry at my place.  Also uses a bit of one of my freezers.

They went to Mexico for a couple weeks after Christmas and I went up to his cabin basically stayed there during the day.  Nice, quiet, got a lot of reading done.
Did spend nights in my own bed so when I got up in the am I could jump in the hot tub.  

That sounds like an incredible journey, Rob! Growing up with such a hands-on, homesteading lifestyle definitely gives you a unique perspective on living off the grid. It's great to see how your approach has evolved over the years. As for the rainwater collection, I agree it’s a cleaner option for many, though it’s understandable that in certain areas, well water still holds strong for convenience and reliability. The steel roofs are a great idea for reducing contaminants, especially with your environment. Thanks for sharing your story!

Tori Mac wrote:off grid (elec & water) since March 2021.  In Puerto Rico. Supplies are an issue.
   rebuilding our water collection system (again) as we need larger capacity AND had some filtering issues.
Would love to find a comprehensive guide to repurposing IBCs for this purpose.

I don't recall how detailed they are with respect to IBCs specifically, but you may want to check out Essential Rainwater Harvesting by Rob & Michelle Avis.  Michelle did some work with an Australian fellow - rainwater harvesting is much more prevalent there.  I took my PDC through their company (which has since morphed).

Tori Mac

Would love to find a comprehensive guide to repurposing IBCs for this purpose.

My signature will show you details of rainwater harvesting.
There are other articles there as well.
For good storage I use minimum of 20,000L tanks.
No treatment is required with such a system.
First flush and mossie guards are required.
One issue with IBC's can be the cost of connecting them all, and having flexible connections between them.

Off grid solar in Northern Ontario, Canada on 80 acres since 2017 and couldn’t be happier!
We have a 400 sq ft somewhat renovated former hunt cabin, no running water, composting bucket toilet system, wood cook stove and an essential wood fired hot tub. We have no cell service but do have Starlink.
We raise goats for meat and milk, the occasional steer for meat and chickens for meat and eggs. We also garden, forage, hunt and fish.

Last vote in apple poll was on March 24, 2025