Ramming ram, what to do...

Ack! I'm having a dilemma - what would you do???

We have our first sheep. They're a primitiv-ish breed, Ouessant, two ewes and a ram.
At first we wanted to give them all the space they might want to have, a Paradisiac scenario with all the animals free and intermingling within the boundaries of our little homestead. BUT. They gnaw on (fruit)tree bark and mow quite efficiently, so I had do fence off my forest-garden-to-be.

When we bought them last June, I asked the seller if the ram was, you know, ramming. He said "only in the breeding season, between September and November".
Well, he started to defend their living territory (where my greenhouse also is...) at end of July, and he hasn't stopped since. In fact, it's only getting worse - the sight of me is like a red cloth to a bull, he'll come charging.

We just built a fence on their pasture this afternoon, dividing it in two, so that I can work peacefully on the side the sheep are not at.
When we had finished for today, they jumped over it and the ram was ramming again.
My system went into tilt-mode; in all the emotion I'd give him away to the first passer-by who'd like to have him, but emotion is not the best place to make decisions.

What would you do?

My reasons to NOT let him go:
* his wool is amazing
* lambs -> possibility, maybe, to milk?
* the principle that if I've committed to an animal, I'll do everything in my power to make it work

Reasons to let him go:
* he's taking his job of protecting the ladies very, very seriously
* multiplied by every time I want to walk in my orchard/to my greenhouse and back

Ramming is a response to human body language. Little things we don't think about that make ourselves a threat.  The rams job is to defend his sheep from threats.  

We are predators and think that looking another person or animal in the eye is friendly.  For prey, it's a massive threat!  Look them in the nose instead.

Or patting an animal on the forhead.  Rams fight with their head, so this gives permission to fight back.  The side of the neck is better.  

When a new person comes to the farm, the first thing I do is to assure them, I'm not going to touch them, then quickly put my hand within an inch of their forehead. It's terrifying to be on the receiving end of that, but they quickly learn not to pet the sheep on the face.

This helps.  Once we learned this, we haven't had to enforce it for several generations.   The n o word only gets said when there is real breach of behavour.  And it's enough to remind them.

https://sheepyhollow.wordpress.com/2012/03/29/rams-a-lesson-in-tough-love/

It works on most flock prey animals.

Reading another thread and especially Ravens' answer there I now know where things went wrong.
It's my own stupid fault, I was being loving and kind to the ram, cuddling him, and now he sees me as a rival. (enter ugly words here)
Currently, I'm all but loving to him, but the damage has been done.

I don't have a gun and I can't kill even a chicken, so I'll have to figure out something else.

My experience since then is it can be repaired. It's hard because it requires altering our behavior dramatically and consistently.

Maybe you should try putting him on a collar and chaining him to something, like a tree. That way, he wouldn't be able to jump the fence or surprise you, while also protecting his girls. But if you're really, really determined, I've heard of one or two anecdotes about people who grabbed a goat by the horns and wrestled them. He swiped at the goat's legs a few times to make it trip and submit, and it never butted them again. However, I wouldn't recommend it!

This behaviour in rams mostly happens when the ram was bottle fed as a lamb. Lambs that are raised on their mothers and not handled much grow up with a mild fear/respect for humans and don't see them as competition. It is particularly dangerous if children are around them as a child could be killed if they get rammed.

I found that I could at least temporarily stop the behaviour by grabbing the young ram (not sure it would work with a full adult where the behaviour is ingrained), lifting his front end slightly, then pushing his back legs to one side so he ends up flat on the floor. Then place one foot rather firmly on his shoulder so he can't get up and keep him there til he's feeling a bit downtrodden (literally!) and sorry for himself.

The general rule I grew up with was that bottle-fed male lambs should never be kept as breeding animals. Your mileage may vary on that, but the tendency to ram humans needs to be nipped in the bud fast. And from experience it tends to return again and again.

Another thing that might help is a hobble attaching a front leg to a back leg on the same side. It should help to keep his speed down so he at least can't ram you so hard!

r ranson wrote:My experience since then is it can be repaired. It's hard because it requires altering our behavior dramatically and consistently.

I just read your blogpost and noticed another Big Mistake I've made; I've given him sheep pellets, which probably pumped his testosterone as well.
(hangs head)
So: No looking in the eyes. No petting - at all. No nutritient rich extra's. I never turn my back at him, nor do I walk backwards since he then thinks I'm going to charge, but I do a weird "I'm keeping my eyes on you, pal!"-dance.
He's being bossy with his girls as well. I'm afraid he might not be a keeper, but am very keen to hear what your advice would be in terms of changing my behavior further.

Burra Maluca wrote:This behaviour in rams mostly happens when the ram was bottle fed as a lamb. Lambs that are raised on their mothers and not handled much grow up with a mild fear/respect for humans and don't see them as competition. It is particularly dangerous if children are around them as a child could be killed if they get rammed.

I found that I could at least temporarily stop the behaviour by grabbing the young ram (not sure it would work with a full adult where the behaviour is ingrained), lifting his front end slightly, then pushing his back legs to one side so he ends up flat on the floor. Then place one foot rather firmly on his shoulder so he can't get up and keep him there til he's feeling a bit downtrodden (literally!) and sorry for himself.

The general rule I grew up with was that bottle-fed male lambs should never be kept as breeding animals. Your mileage may vary on that, but the tendency to ram humans needs to be nipped in the bud fast. And from experience it tends to return again and again.

Another thing that might help is a hobble attaching a front leg to a back leg on the same side. It should help to keep his speed down so he at least can't ram you so hard!

Thank you, Burra, for your thoughtful answer.
I don't know what the lamb-history of my ram is, he was 2 years old when I bought him.
My tactic until recently was to grab him by the horns and to take him for a walk (not ever pushing back), and he did not like that at all.
But now he's learnt to avoid me grabbing his horns, backing up very quickly for another ram, which I dodge to the best of my abilities with my boot.
No fun.

Jessy Williams wrote:Maybe you should try putting him on a collar and chaining him to something, like a tree. That way, he wouldn't be able to jump the fence or surprise you, while also protecting his girls. But if you're really, really determined, I've heard of one or two anecdotes about people who grabbed a goat by the horns and wrestled them. He swiped at the goat's legs a few times to make it trip and submit, and it never butted them again. However, I wouldn't recommend it!

Thanks Jessy, I'll keep this in mind!

Looks like you've gotten some excellent feedback here, especially from r ranson.

Death is inevitable on the farm, most especially when you are keeping animals. There will be times when an animal has to be put down, even if you aren't planning on it, whether due to illness or injury or ill temper. We need to be able to identify those times, and either be ready to do the deed ourselves, or have someone who can do it for us. Keeping a suffering or dangerous animal alive simply because we don't have the heart to kill it is doing it no kindness.

It is harder for the small-scale shepherd to make culling decisions than it is for someone with a larger flock, because we get attached to individual animals, and because a "cull" decision on a particular animal might be 10 or 20 or even 50% of our flock - which is no small cost. Greg Judy (a regenerative rancher from Missouri) talks about his zero-tolerance policy for fence jumping - that's a one way ticket to the freezer (or the sale barn) on his farm. One bad sheep can teach that behavior to others, and pretty soon you end up with half the flock over the fence and down the road eating the neighbor's flower garden. The result of that policy, though, is that he very rarely has a sheep escape, even grazing a flock with a single hot wire fence. The same goes for parasites - cull the weak and breed the strong, eventually you will get a flock that is parasite-resistant without the need for pharmaceutical support.

So, all of that to say - do your best to correct your ram's behavior, but don't be afraid to get rid of him (one way or another) if you can't. Maybe someone else can improve his behavior, maybe someone will enjoy a nice roast, but you don't need yourself or your visitors getting hurt because the ram attacked them. If he _is_ aggressive, you don't really want his lambs, anyway, as there's a good possibility that will get passed down. Rams are generally pretty easy to come by (as a matter of supply and demand), so consider life too short to deal with aggressive rams and find one that's not.

Try chaining him with about 10 feet of chain to something so big he can just barely drag it.

One of the worst events on the farm was the day strangers came on to our property to give their kid a real farm expirence.

Passing through or over several locked gates, they placed their young child into the field with a single goat.

The goat belonged to a friend of ours.  We were keeping it for a few weeks while they upgraded their fence.  It was a wonderful milker, but was a rescue and not safe for humans or other goats.  The horns were nearly a yard long and very pointy.

The child, of course, got injured.

The parents got no reprimand for trespassing, breaking biosecurity procedures, or endangering the life of our animals.  Child endangerment could go here too.  But no.  

Because the goat hurt a human, it required immediate nullification.   It had to be killed within 24 hours, or else.

It was that event that made me understand how important I follow the tough love for ram protocol on the farm.  It feels cruel at the time, but it saves the lives of our animals, and makes our rams far more valuable because they are so calm.

I can cuddle with my ram every day, so long as I get my body language right and keep an eye on his.  

Thank you all for your valuable and supportive feedback. I've learned heaps for the future, and hopefully these posts can help others as well.
I'm not too comfortable with the ram around, so I'll try to find a new home for him, giving an honest report about his behavior.

Nina Surya wrote:I'm not too comfortable with the ram around, so I'll try to find a new home for him, giving an honest report about his behavior.

We hand-raised a lovely Kerry Hill ram lamb who became a complete nuisance to us as he had no fear of people. His name was G, as my son was learning the alphabet that year and he was the seventh lamb of the year. We sold him to a local hill farmer to run with his welsh mountain ewes on the mountain where he had hundreds of acres to roam but there were no public footpaths. He never had any problems as far as we know.

I do hope some of these strategies work for you.  Certain behaviors in our animals (including humans) are not tolerated on the farm and ramming is one.  One member experienced a shattered kneecap from a Karacul ram.

If you really like his wool, then adult castration might be something to explore.  I've used this brand for a dozen years to castrate our yearlings and 2-year-olds before butcher as they grow healthier and stronger when intact.

Many years ago, my sister lived on a farm - more of a commune I'd guess.
She was the one that had the "home" duties while her housemates had jobs or tasks elsewhere most of the day.  
Along with chickens, geese and other small farm critters, they acquired some sheep and a ram (no idea of the breed or background) but he was famous, no, make that infamous, for ramming people.
He had, in fact, injured some of the folks living there, but it was all minor stuff. Until one day he really lit into my sister.
I'm not sure how badly she was hurt, but even as a great animal lover, that was the LAST time he was going to do that.
One day she caught sight of him lining up on her and just before he connected, she grabbed a handy 2x4 and spun around.
I believe she broke the 2x across his horns and stunned him thoroughly. No external damage to his head.
And as far as I know, he never challenged her again.

It's a shame that sometimes it takes that much effort to get the point across.
But they managed to be in the same yard with no further altercations.

Please understand, I am NOT suggesting this as a solution, but for her, the choice was euthanize or demand respect.

I’m pretty new to sheep, except having had a 4H market lamb as a child.

I bought some sheep and bought some more.  I have one 8 month ram lamb, 3 8 month ewe lambs a full mouth pregnant milking ewe, one of the 3 sellerrecommended this article about rams

https://www.fireflyhollowfarm.com/post/all-things-ram

I would love experienced shepherds’ take on it.

I am very curious what body language is offensive to rams, other than eye contact.

So far, I have not had any problems with the ram, but he is young, and I don’t think it has been breeding season, but I do have Icelandic and Finn ewe lambs and I understand that one or both of those breeds have broader breeding seasons.

I have not been affectionate with the ram, except a rare scratch under the chin, which raises his head up out of the butting position.

I do not hand feed him anything.  Sometimes if he comes too close, as in part of the group, I move forward into his space, coming in towards his shoulder, not head on.  He gives ground.  Goes to find something else to do.  

I have been told more than once that it helps to have more than one ram, or a wether.  The theory is that if they have a stable dominance hierarchy among them, there is less urge to try to establish dominance over the humans.  Again, I would like to hear you experienced shepherds opinions on this theory.

All in all, if this ram of mine becomes a problem I will have to cull him, one way or another, and quickly!

I am so grateful for this thread.  I want to learn all I can about how to keep a ram.

For reference I helped to raise a small flock of sheep and a small herd of milking goats for over a decade.
The Karaculs were before my time.

In the animal systems I helped manage, we always had two intact males (per species) and rarely had issues under discussion. I made a point to introduce people to the goats and their headbutting strategies and instructed them scratch them under their chin when they would come up to the gates.
I would expect to see more issues with more “primitive” breeds like the Icelandic.

r ranson wrote:Ramming is a response to human body language. Little things we don't think about that make ourselves a threat.  The rams job is to defend his sheep from threats.  

We are predators and think that looking another person or animal in the eye is friendly.  For prey, it's a massive threat!  Look them in the nose instead.

Or patting an animal on the forhead.  Rams fight with their head, so this gives permission to fight back.  The side of the neck is better.  

When a new person comes to the farm, the first thing I do is to assure them, I'm not going to touch them, then quickly put my hand within an inch of their forehead. It's terrifying to be on the receiving end of that, but they quickly learn not to pet the sheep on the face.

This helps.  Once we learned this, we haven't had to enforce it for several generations.   The n o word only gets said when there is real breach of behavour.  And it's enough to remind them.

https://sheepyhollow.wordpress.com/2012/03/29/rams-a-lesson-in-tough-love/

It works on most flock prey animals.

Totally agree. NEVER look a dog in the eye. That is asking for trouble. A person came to me as she had an aggressive dog. She had been told to out stare her dog. She wouldn't stop, even when I told her the dangers and she ended up parting with the dog. We need to understand the body language of the animal we are dealing with. Why do we think they should learn humanese? We've asked them into our lives, we need to do the work.

I love everyone's advice on this matter--all suggestions are valid but you do have a breed most people aren't used to and primitive breeds might be a little different. So I've had Soay sheep for years, and if your sheep really are pure Ouessant then they are very rare on this continent. However, even when we brought the first Soay in from Canada long ago we never tolerated a ramming ram! Once the girls were bred the farm kill butcher was called in for dispatch of the occasional offender and he got eaten. You cannot afford to risk life and limb over this little bully. Your new lambs and your current ewes are also in jeopardy, so if the girls are bred, and I'm assuming they are this time of year, I would dispatch this guy ASAP! You should be able to feed a minimal amount of sheep pellets or grain without worrying about creating a monster.

Years ago we had a ram turn mean.  He was big, too, and quick.  Serous injury would have been inevitable, even though I never took my eyes off him when I had to go into the sheep area (and I had to do this at least twice daily because the chicken pen was beyond this).  I took to taking a heavy sick with me, but clobbering him over the head hard enough to break it just made him back up and charge in for more like it was an enjoyable match!  One day he stranded me with the chickens.  So in desperation I grabbed the bucket of vile drain liquid from under the black soldier fly bin and flung it into his face!  Instant retreat!  Indeed he went to the furthest corner of the yard from me and stuck his head into the corner!  Over the course of the next few days I had an answer modeled on this....a squirt bottle of urine!  After a few squirts all I had to do was wave it at him and he'd back right off!!

Alder Burns wrote:Years ago we had a ram turn mean.  He was big, too, and quick.  Serous injury would have been inevitable, even though I never took my eyes off him when I had to go into the sheep area (and I had to do this at least twice daily because the chicken pen was beyond this).  I took to taking a heavy sick with me, but clobbering him over the head hard enough to break it just made him back up and charge in for more like it was an enjoyable match!  One day he stranded me with the chickens.  So in desperation I grabbed the bucket of vile drain liquid from under the black soldier fly bin and flung it into his face!  Instant retreat!  Indeed he went to the furthest corner of the yard from me and stuck his head into the corner!  Over the course of the next few days I had an answer modeled on this....a squirt bottle of urine!  After a few squirts all I had to do was wave it at him and he'd back right off!!

I love these clever, easy solutions people come up with in tricky situations!

I do not have sheep. I have goats.  I have watched videos of adult Rams killing people.  These were large rams, over 200 lbs, but I am pretty sure even a smaller ram could injure some one pretty badly.  That being said, when ever I have a buck goat even look at me crosswise (like he might even slightly be entertaining going after me) I get either an old wooden handle or a good heavy piece of PVC pipe and when he does it, I whack him right on the end of the nose as hard as I can.  I don't hit their forehead or horns, this encourages them to head butt.  Usually one strike on the nose is all it takes. They hate it.  They will cry and run and shake their head.  Their nose is very tender.  I have big bucks, one that is almost 200 lbs, one that is slightly over 200 lbs and one that is well over 200 lbs. They also have huge horns as they are mature Kiko bucks.  I won't keep a buck that continues to try to come after me as it is too dangerous.   However, if you are hesitant to get rid of this ram and I can understand why, you can try hitting him in the nose.

Now, while my bucks don't come after me, they do a lot of damage head butting things. They nearly destroyed their shelter last year. They ruined the fence separating them from the does, again. They head butted down the walls of the does winter shelter and head butted one of the hay feeders into pieces. They then head butted one of those big round wooden spools until it was a bunch of splinters.  I am contemplating trying these Ram Shields for when they go into rut.  I have not tried them yet. But perhaps they might work for you.  Or perhaps you might be able to make one yourself that would work.  

https://www.premier1supplies.com/p/ram-shields?cat_id=4

good luck!  

Thank you all for your helpful messages!
It took this conversation here to convince myself that the gorgeous but misbehaving ram isn't worth the trouble.
I contacted the local sheep farmer and asked him for help. His helper was happy to have my ramming ram, they came to fetch him just a short hour ago.
The ewes are a bit shook after their protector has gone, but luckily they still have eachother and, soon-ish, their lambs.
I'm SO relieved, the farmer was super kind and helpful and his helper shone with joy - everybody happy, except, at this moment, the sheep.

A quick follow-up question that I didn't have the chance (nor the language skills) to ask the farmer: am I being stupid if I'm friendly with the ewes?
I now know better and will not be too friendly with possible male lambs.

I’m glad that worked out for you!

To my knowledge, the ewes will not be a problem even if you are “too familiar”

Hello Nina!

Sounds like you made a smart choice and I am glad to hear you bred the ewes!
I pet all my sheep under the jaw rather than on the top of the head.   That way I will not make the mistake of patting the rams on the forehead.  

I often raise bottle baby rams.   They are friendly and easy to handle.  In my experience though, the bottle babies are not breeding stock.  The mothers pick the best lambs and I am raising the rejects as bottle babies.  Also they are often raised partly on formula which is an inferior source of nutrition.  

If you want to breed, I would let the mom raise the ram and make friends with it when it is very young.   I find all the sheep to be much easier to handle as adults when I take the time to gentle them as lambs.   No petting on the forehead though, especially for the ram lambs.    

Later on, if anybody even thinks of headbutting me, they get a big boot in the shoulder and a way outsized reaction from me.   Usually one treatment of this is enough.   I think of myself as a nice person mostly but I am the biggest animal in the corral.  

Hey! Firstly, The Ouessants are actually part of the same group (Northern Short Tailed Sheep) as ours. We have Icelandics and Shetlands. I didn't know that until I looked them up, but that's kinda cool!
One thing you've gotta understand about rams is that they can become really bored, so they actually really need somebody else to ram with. When we sell starter flocks we like to send rams with a wether specifically for that reason. When they have another boy to ram with, they are less likely to become aggressive towards you or the ewes.
As far as managing an aggressive ram, you have to cut that behavior ASAP. When he runs at you, grab his horns and flip him on his back. Being stuck on their backs is a submissive position because they are completely defenseless. Once he's down, hold him there for a minute or two (give him a long talking to, discuss his behavior, whatever you'd like, lol) and then let him back up again. Flip him every time he rams you, lowers his head aggressively, whacks you with his horns, etc. Basically any sort of aggressive posturing at all! Do NOT run away or act submissive to him. There is absolutely no reason to tolerate an aggressive ram. If he doesn't stop ramming you, you should retire him, not sell him. An aggressive ram is a no no, no matter how awesome he is. I don't know about rams behavior in the Ouessants in general, but in Icelandics and Shetlands, gentle rams are the norm. If we ever get one who is aggressive towards people at all outside of breeding season (or in breeding season outside of a breeding pen) who doesn't chill out with some tough-on-their-back conversations, he goes to the freeezer!!!

Bonnie Johnson wrote:I do not have sheep. I have goats.  I have watched videos of adult Rams killing people.  These were large rams, over 200 lbs, but I am pretty sure even a smaller ram could injure some one pretty badly.  That being said, when ever I have a buck goat even look at me crosswise (like he might even slightly be entertaining going after me) I get either an old wooden handle or a good heavy piece of PVC pipe and when he does it, I whack him right on the end of the nose as hard as I can.  I don't hit their forehead or horns, this encourages them to head butt.  Usually one strike on the nose is all it takes. They hate it.  They will cry and run and shake their head.  Their nose is very tender.  I have big bucks, one that is almost 200 lbs, one that is slightly over 200 lbs and one that is well over 200 lbs. They also have huge horns as they are mature Kiko bucks.  I won't keep a buck that continues to try to come after me as it is too dangerous.   However, if you are hesitant to get rid of this ram and I can understand why, you can try hitting him in the nose.

Now, while my bucks don't come after me, they do a lot of damage head butting things. They nearly destroyed their shelter last year. They ruined the fence separating them from the does, again. They head butted down the walls of the does winter shelter and head butted one of the hay feeders into pieces. They then head butted one of those big round wooden spools until it was a bunch of splinters.  I am contemplating trying these Ram Shields for when they go into rut.  I have not tried them yet. But perhaps they might work for you.  Or perhaps you might be able to make one yourself that would work.  

https://www.premier1supplies.com/p/ram-shields?cat_id=4

good luck!  

We've tried the ram shields. Didn't really work for us. What does work is raising respectful, gentle rams in general and then reintroducing them to each other after breeding season in a crush pen so that no one can back up far enough to do damage.

Nina Surya wrote:Thank you all for your helpful messages!
It took this conversation here to convince myself that the gorgeous but misbehaving ram isn't worth the trouble.
I contacted the local sheep farmer and asked him for help. His helper was happy to have my ramming ram, they came to fetch him just a short hour ago.
The ewes are a bit shook after their protector has gone, but luckily they still have eachother and, soon-ish, their lambs.
I'm SO relieved, the farmer was super kind and helpful and his helper shone with joy - everybody happy, except, at this moment, the sheep.

A quick follow-up question that I didn't have the chance (nor the language skills) to ask the farmer: am I being stupid if I'm friendly with the ewes?
I now know better and will not be too friendly with possible male lambs.

Absolutely be friendly with the ewes!!! We make it a point to spend a lot of time sitting out with the ewes and lambs. The more comfortable they are with you, the more they trust you, and the easier it is to manage them and work with them. As far as rams go, the earlier you can start training them in respectfulness, the better. Never pet or rub the tops of their heads, always their chins and reward any sort of aggressive testing behavior (pushing against your leg or hand, swinging their head at you, etc., etc.) with some time being held on their backs having a good behavior lecture.
We've found that the more time we've spent with the lambs the calmer and more friendly they will be as adults with people in general. That means that when it comes time to sell some, they will travel with less stress and adapt to their new environments more easily. Just less stress all around. The lambs do seem to go through a stand offish phase at about 6 months. No worries, they'll come back for loves after a while.

Thank you Elena - I wish I had known all of this earlier. I was being friendly with my sheep - all of them. From early on the ram took the First Pet position and the ewes stayed behind him so...things got worse.
In the breeding season the ram got aggressive towards me and the things I did to keep him at bay* didn't really work.

*shielding his ramming with my boot, grabbing him by the horns and "taking him for a walk", never pushing but pulling along which he hated but boy, had I known about the backflip and having a wholesome talk I would have done that.

After the breeding season he stayed very protective about his ladies, and I realised he now saw me as a rival of sorts. Luckily he never attacked or threatened my partner or my son.

In the first place I did offer the ram for sale, but after getting a few naive-ish messages I put the ad on halt and contacted the farmer instead. I gave the ram away for free to the farmers' helper.
So now he's in more capable hands, hopefully with some fellow rams to "play" with after a ram cram.

There's only space for 3-4 Ouessant sheep (fun to know about the family ties to Islandics and Shetlands!), so at the moment I'm aiming at a tiny flock of 2-3 ewes. Maybe they can have a boyfriend to visit in the autumn, we'll see.

Hopefully others' can glean plenty of information from my ramtroubles+helpful info, and have a happy, peaceful co-existence with their ram(s).

Nina, I just read a single source which said rams reach sexual maturity at 4-6 months.

If this is true, there’s another possible strategy:  buy a ram lamb in the spring and keep him through breeding season.

If he was a nice gentle guy, you could keep him, but soon he would be related to a lot of your flock.  Pros and cons of line breeding can be discussed elsewhere, personally I avoid it.  

With the above ram lamb, you could also neuter him or trade or sell him to another shepherd (or for slaughter).  I have been thinking about this a lot.  I have 4 ewes and ewe lambs and a single gentle so far 9 month ram lamb.  He’s a dorper Icelandic cross, and as dorpers are a meat breed and my interest is in milk and wool, he’s not really who I want, though if I get any lambs by him this year they will only be 1/4 dorper and those ewes will have 1/8 dorper lambs.  And I could cull the ones with poor fleece quality, or low milk production etc.  So it’s an acceptable plan for now.

If rams - though they are potentially personable and affectionate most of the year- are this problematic the rest of the year, I am not sure I want to keep a ram!  It seems a risk for an old woman shepherd who sometimes relies on the neighbor children to mind the flock.

I have found that there are two common reasons for aggression with rams and roosters.
The first is owner error of encouraging the behavior by play pushing back when a young animal practices the instinctive behavior.  
The second is stimulation of the instinctive behavior due to the females attention to you as a food provider makes you a competitor for herd or flock dominance.
A good male will lead the females to the food so try to honor their position.  The Bosk shepherds were so exited when I delivered my 4-H ram to exchange for a bread yew; They had a breading flock that would not cross a bridge;  They lead him across the bridge and interduced him to the females then lead him back and the whole flock fallowed.

Thanks for your insights, Hans.  Good to know how to work WITH sheep nature.

A couple days ago I had an event with my young ram which I will share here for discussion and speculation, as I really don’t know what to think about it.

It was evening, and daylight was fading.  I buy an 800 pound bale of hay which I construct a feeder around.  It is metal fence panels with large enough square or rectangular spaces the sheep poke their heads through to eat the hay.

My fully horned Icelandic ewe has never had a problem, nor have any of the others, nor my goats before them.

I have a new 6 year old ewe East Freisian cross Lacaune.  She has a coarse head but no horns.  When I went to put the sheep in for the night, her head was stuck.  When I tried to pull her head out, she pulled against me.  Eventually I brought my battery powered reciprocating saw.  I decided I would have to cut the metal bar.

By this time the other 4 sheep including the one 9 month old ram, had come back out of the shed to see what was happening.  And it was pretty dark.

I placed the blade safely and activated the saw, which has a light and makes a lot of noise.  Suddenly I was lying on the ground, having lost my balance when my young ram butted the loud unfamiliar saw!

Yes I forgot about not turning my back on the ram.  A better plan would have been to secure the sheep in the shed before doing something so questionable to the ram so close to the ewe.

I wasn’t hurt, the ewe was freed and we all had a happy ending.  I only had to cut the ewe out 2 more times before she worked with me when she got stuck again.  And she hasn’t gotten stuck in the last few days.  She may have figured it out.

But I wonder, what was in the ram’s mind when he butted the saw, so close to his precious ewe.  He certainly could have butted me.  In broad daylight he never seemed to concern himself when I used the saw to free her.

Any ideas?

Hello Thekla,
My ram would ram anything strange in "his" pasture. As I was carrying a bucket, a shovel, a (thankfully empty) beehive, he'd ram those things.
He was very protective of his ladies and his space.

And Hans,
Thank you for your insights. Yes, I suppose the ram would have seen me as a rival because I'd feed or otherwise give attention to the ewes!

The ram has now been rehoused, and I'm enjoying mellow, friendly, sweet reconnecting with the ewes.

Was this ram bottle feed as a lamb. I learnt that bottle feed males often turn out aggrieve the hard way, I had two year old merino ram that would now let anyone in his paddock, had to shot him in the end. I shear a few of other peoples rams and Ive not had any problems if not bottle feed.

Richard Watson wrote:Was this ram bottle feed as a lamb. I learnt that bottle feed males often turn out aggrieve the hard way, I had two year old merino ram that would now let anyone in his paddock, had to shot him in the end. I shear a few of other peoples rams and Ive not had any problems if not bottle feed.

This fits in with everything I have been told about rams, that over familiarity is not a good idea.  And bottle babies are definitely overly familiar, even have confused people-sheep understanding.

I bet there are sheep and ram whisperers, some on this thread no doubt, but for me, I think I will steer clear of bottle fed rams until I have more than 6 months experience as a sheep herder.

Thanks for pointing this out!

Richard Watson wrote:Was this ram bottle feed as a lamb. I learnt that bottle feed males often turn out aggrieve the hard way, I had two year old merino ram that would now let anyone in his paddock, had to shot him in the end. I shear a few of other peoples rams and Ive not had any problems if not bottle feed.

Hi Richard,
I don't know about the past of this ram, I bought him as a 2 years old.
It makes sense though, overly familiar with (too kind) people causes issues, as has been proved.

I have goats, the kid's only contact is me, from the time their dropped to verdict (stay or freezer) day.  I bottle feed all, in the past I've had aggressive bucks. I've found that the exclusivity of me being the only contact, makes me the "leader" of the herd with few problems, that being said I've had a few that needed extra education. The giveaway is the buck starting to wheeze and whine, and side eyeing you as you get near, as I don't poll the animals, the buck will usually start tossing his head and snort and shake. I'll stand in front of him and as soon as he dips his head, I grab his left side horn with my right hand, pull down and in in a C shaped motion, step forward to the left, grab the hind leg and flip him on his back, pin his horns down with a foot on each side of his head. talk calmly and continually, doesn't matter what you say, the point is to associate your voice/presence with what's happening to him, he may blat and squirm some but if you're on his horns he's not going anywhere. It may sound complicated but it's really not, be confident, smooth and decisive, it's goat judo. Another thing if it's outdoors in front of the rest of the herd all the better, it's an embarrassment thing. I've never had to do more than twice to a buck

20+ years ago think I accidently did the flip thing with a goat.  My apt was right on the line, city to county.  Dense buildings then open fields.  I went over the cyclone fence to retrieve some toys one of the neighbor kids had thrown over the fence.  I had never seen any animals or people and it was not mowed.  A smallish (60-70lbs?) goat charged out of no where. I only weighed 125lb back then  He would do that raise up on hind legs to dive ram me.  He had straight upright horns.  I grabbed the horns on the dive and stepped to the side. He flipped on his side.  I had to do that 3 times, moving closer to the fence each time.  He shook his head and sort of walked off sideways.  I had zero experience, no planning and could not believe I had done that without thinking.  Still don't like goats.