need: blankets, sleeping bags, plates, silverware, stuff

If you have stuff you were thinking of sending to the goodwill or something, and you happen to be coming out this way ...

I think some people might find that they have not packed well enough for the cold. It got down to 30 degrees here last night. It looks like there will be a fair bit of tent action.

blankets
sleeping bags
plates, bowls, silverware
bricks
buckets with handles
pea gravel (a pickup truck full)
four to six inch river rock (a pickup truck full)
10 to 40 gallon steel drums with lids (for pocket rockets)
duct and stove pipe -all sizes and shapes
firewood
excess lumber (1x or 2x)
chairs/couches

We'll add to this list as needed. If we can't do a re-use thing, then we'll just buy a bunch of stuff.

We have mugs, mugs and more mugs - and they can double as cold beverage glasses, too - so I think we're good in that department.

Sometimes a zipper breaks or a seam gives out on a sleeping bag - which just does not work in the cold. Back ups would be awesome to have around.

A contribution FAQ might reduce mindless chit chat, clarify things and sort of automate the whole process.

Suggest you delegate a list master and keep a current list up somewhere easy to find on the forums which maintains CURRENT (as of today) wants and don'ts. At the _bottom_ put contact info for questions about stuff not listed or unclear. Have a fill-in-blanks form that states what one plans to bring from Sections 1,2 and when; have a form for changed plans and blow them a kiss for letting your know ahead of time. Your responsibility is to keep it current and follow up as needed. An "outgoing" list might also be possible. This would be an evolving type of thing - might work, might not, might turn into something else...

Section 1: Gotta haves. PLEEEZE!!!

Section 2: Yeah, we want it.

Section 3: Full up - later maybe.

Section 4: NEVER!!!

My .02


Rufus

We could use about 30 5-gallon buckets with handles.

We could also use some 10 to 20 gallon totes. Maybe even garbage cans.

We need big gobs of compostable material. We already have lots of carbons (wood and sawdust). So we need hay or manure that is free of herbicides.

Preferably delivered.

We can pay or trade.

We will use this to heat water for showers and laundry during the workshops.

Rufus - great suggestions. We'll be that organized/coordinated some day.

We're hoping for the shortcut of somebody knows somebody to save us a gazillion phone calls, lists, and web searches.

I have a richoil.com e-mail, so feel free to e-mail jocelyn at that domain if you are one of those somebodies!

A big hello from the Ozark area in MO. Paul why don't you plan to heat that pile up with humanure? We are using the system outlined in the Humanure Handbook on our small homestead. Our compost pile has been holding a steady temp of about 140 degrees for several weeks now. Seems like the perfect addition to get things going.

Chris Dalton wrote:A big hello from the Ozark area in MO. Paul why don't you plan to heat that pile up with humanure? We are using the system outlined in the Humanure Handbook on our small homestead. Our compost pile has been holding a steady temp of about 140 degrees for several weeks now. Seems like the perfect addition to get things going.

I have a lot of concerns about that path, so we will not be doing that.

Maddy Harland emailed me to say that pee will work really well. I'm thinking that sawdust / branches and twigs + 40% pee and 60% other N sources would work. If needed i suppose we could push the pee up to 70%, but somehow I think that might be problematic. Has anyone tried 100% pee as an N source?

Paul, have you contacted your local utility company for free wood chips? I get some delivered when they are in my area cleaning up. I think most if not all power companies love to have a place close to where they are trimming to drop off chips. I got 4 loads worth last year, they are happily decomposing for me. If you set up a drop off for them they will just show up every few years and drop off as much as you have room for. They can be used for all kinds of things as I am sure you know.

When they first arrive and are still full of sugars or whatever you can separate a pile for growing gourmet mushroom spores in them and cover with a tarp to keep moisture in, voila you have gourmet mycelium pushing up delicious shrooms in no time. This also works by drilling holes in year old stumps and hammering in plugs permeated in mycelium.

marty weis wrote:Paul, have you contacted your local utility company for free wood chips?

I think Paul also has concerns about wood chips since they are often from lawns or yards or roadsides where herbicides or pesticides have been used. Which means those chemicals are likely in the wood chips, even if the trees themselves are not already naturally allelopathic (conifers).

Hello,
I read Pauls post and thought I might suggest a website that could be useful.

http://groups.freecycle.org/Missoula-Freecycle/posts/all

Freecycle is for people who are trying to get rid of stuff and also for people who are wanting stuff.
If you have something you want to get rid of, they put OFFER in the subject line.
If you have something you want....you put WANTED in the subject line.
It does not cost anything to join and it is a great way to get stuff and get rid of stuff instead of it being thrown away.
You can also join groups outside your area if you are willing to travel.

I have been a member of several groups over here in NJ and it really works nicely.

Hope this helps
-Kevin

For heat in your sawdust pile, could you not gather some of the surely copious pig manure? Also, what happened to the cattle non-cleaned out innards? None of this is fun, but persistent herbicides could be present in most manures you get from outside sources (who weren't as strict about hay).

Perhaps a combination of gathered onsite manure, animal innards, and urine. Install 5 gallon buckets with sawdust in all flush-toilet equipped bathrooms, and put a bucket at the end of the urine diversion system at the pooper. With enough sawdust (and mixing), none of this should stink.

This wouldn't be a bad use for human food waste from say, the Riverside Cafe. I've learned from Walter Jeffries that you don't want to give post-consumer food waste to pigs because they can catch colds and flu from it, but you could compost it. . .

I've never managed to get much heat in a sawdust/pee pile. My humanure gets up to 65C regularly, but my sawdust ones never really got much over 30C. Maybe with more people to get the pee-ratio higher. but I have a sneaky feeling that it's gonna need something else. Lots of greens help. Spoiled hay would be a godsend if you could get it.

paul wheaton wrote:

Chris Dalton wrote:A big hello from the Ozark area in MO. Paul why don't you plan to heat that pile up with humanure? We are using the system outlined in the Humanure Handbook on our small homestead. Our compost pile has been holding a steady temp of about 140 degrees for several weeks now. Seems like the perfect addition to get things going.

I have a lot of concerns about that path, so we will not be doing that.

Paul, I'm curious about your concerns. I just finished reading The Humanure Handbook, as well, and it looks like it has a lot of proven potential. Are you worried about the fecal matter permeating through the plastic pipe into the heated water?

I have a spare sleeping bag. Used maybe once or so rated to thirty degrees. I will not be by Montana anytime soon but could toss it in the mail.

David Wright wrote:
Paul, I'm curious about your concerns. I just finished reading The Humanure Handbook, as well, and it looks like it has a lot of proven potential.

There's a podcast or two where he goes over his concerns, but you could also start here (warning--this is a super long thread).

Kevin, thanks for the freecycle link - I forgot about them.

Yes, Julia's correct; we have lots of manure from the animals. Though since we are doing the paddock shift system, it is spread far and wide across the lab. We are short of time and labor to gather it all up into a pile. And yes, other manures could be tainted. The cow offal went to the pigs already.

Burra, that's exactly the feedback Paul was looking for. In fact he started a thread just on hot water from a compost pile in this forum.

David, Paul's concerns about humanure might be already be discussed in the pooper threads or a podcast. If anyone recalls perhaps they can post a link.

James, that would be amazing if it's not too pricey to mail! The address is in this post to the donations thread.

We've put out requests to Missoula lists and craigslist for manure, hay or straw (we'd pay for delivery!) that is chemical-free. Nothing yet.

As for heating up your piles. Drink, Drink, Drink, and Pee, Pee, Pee. You also will get plenty of N, P, K, and, if your diet is really good, trace minerals into your final compost. There was a funny blog about a landlord in Portland collecting pee from voluntary donors, but I couldn't find it again. I think Maitri Ersson should be one of the queens on the cards though. She has great stories about using well-diluted special Vitamin P on a community garden spot, where a neighbor asked her why her corn was so much better than his. When she told him, he announced he could do that too. Also, if you have conifers that shed, that might also be some extra heat. Some conifers produce heat in the roots as well, I have been told, and I have since observed that it seems to unfreeze under some conifers before it does under other trees. Also, if you have a nearby coffee shop, get the spent grounds to add to your piles. All sorts of things like these, though they can dessicate things a bit. With enough pee, the dessication should not be a problem.

I am truly aware,( as I get ready to shift houses, myself ) how busy you all are at your end ! But the point about broken zippers reminded me of a certain group of
Ultra-lite campers/hikers, who must carry it on their back or not have it at all.

There is a seriously large crowd of Ultra-lite campers who winter camp and find it much, much easier to tent camp/sleep in a hammock, with some padding straped
underneath the Hammock (they call it a padded diaper) that lose heat to the ground with the best combination of Air Mattress' and insulated pads !! ( As Do I !!! )

Their motto is : Any day above ground is a good day ! Some of the hairier Micro-Ultra lighters winter camp with less than 9#s of gear-not including food ! AND-
summer hammock camping is only fun if you already have the Hammock ! Just my two cents ! Big AL!

allen lumley wrote:
Their motto is : Any day above ground is a good day !

Good points about keeping warm, Big Al! We do have four cots for use in tipis or tents, which is another way to keep off the cold ground though perhaps not as creative or light as the hammocks you described.

David Wright wrote:

paul wheaton wrote:

Chris Dalton wrote:A big hello from the Ozark area in MO. Paul why don't you plan to heat that pile up with humanure? We are using the system outlined in the Humanure Handbook on our small homestead. Our compost pile has been holding a steady temp of about 140 degrees for several weeks now. Seems like the perfect addition to get things going.

I have a lot of concerns about that path, so we will not be doing that.

Paul, I'm curious about your concerns. I just finished reading The Humanure Handbook, as well, and it looks like it has a lot of proven potential. Are you worried about the fecal matter permeating through the plastic pipe into the heated water?

Dave, check out the Podcast.

https://permies.com/t/18791/podcast/Poop-Beast-Part#160219

Well that is a pretty boring list. Or maybe I am weird enough that weird seems normal.

I can attest to the fact people do NOT understand the cold coming from the low country in the summer. I froze my butt off one Fourth of July weekend in Wyoming. Lowlanders just aren't used to those temperature swings.

You probably could use some extra coats, wool sweaters, hats and socks, too. If people have them to spare.

Make sure to teach people how to use hot water bottles and all the other backpacker tricks for sleeping warm.

Paul, how much sawdust do you really have? (he waxed rhetorically) Jean Pain's work was all carbon based. As you know he had to clear the debris from entire forests in southern France to eliminate wild fires. He shredded dead wood. Saturated it and formed into inverted 10' tall muffins. Produced 140 degree water for 18 months-- no manure. He sumped the microbe rich water back to the top. There is a Gaelen Brown in Vermont attempting to replicate his work smaller scale. Might save some material, time and effort. Best wishes!

As much as I would love to be there I wont be! But just a tip here! Tell your attendees to bring a ski bib! I wear those daily around the house during the winter, rarely needing to layer under them here in SC. I will pair them with a man's fleece vest and long sleeve cotton t-shirt under that for indoors and a jacket added for outside. Sometimes I fore-go the vest and just have my undies and the long sleeved T under the bib. Warm!!! My only source of heat for my house is a wood stove(I try to keep it efficiently low burning and rely on the bib) and while it doesn't get as cold here as it does there, I'm sure, a ski bib is wonderful and cost effective. Make sure the ski bib is large enough to layer under it as the suspenders should be on the outside of a gals outfit or its a pain in the patootie to go potty!
Keep em on to sleep in too if your bag doesn't do the job you need it to do.

Ohhhh! Just thought!
I dunno how you feel about duct tape, but it might work on emergency sleeping bag repair etc. Maybe everyone can bring a roll!
Also I am in the process of making an insulation pad to go on the ground between Mom Earth and my bag from plastic grocery bags! Crochet them together!

Thomas Vogel wrote: There is a Gaelen Brown in Vermont attempting to replicate his work smaller scale.

Thanks so much for the info! http://www.gaelanbrown.com is the website, and he has a more specific site about running water pipe through compost piles here:

http://www.compostpower.org

I have at least one sleeping bag, maybe two that I can send your way. I may have some blankets too. I will probably FedEx them from work so you should get them soon!

Hmm, since I am looking at downsizing, I might be able to help here! I am in the Bitterroot at the moment, but is there a drop-off place down here, or Missoula, that might work if the stuff can't be picked up? Thanks!

Seems obvious, but keeping an eye on craigslist free stuff is a good idea for raw and finished materials.

http://missoula.craigslist.org/zip/

You can also post something like: Free place to dump your chemical free yard waste.

Of course you'd want to gauge who brings what.

FREECYCLE !!! big AL

Lisa Allen wrote:Hmm, since I am looking at downsizing, I might be able to help here! I am in the Bitterroot at the moment, but is there a drop-off place down here, or Missoula, that might work if the stuff can't be picked up? Thanks!

Cool! I will be in Missoula on Tuesday, 10/15, if you want to meet up there!