what do ya'll think of our new logo?

What does everyone think of our new logo? We'd love any feedback.

When I see it big its not so androgynous. Eh. Whatever. I still think it work well.

I think the androgyny works. Permaculture is for everyone; so no sex need be specified.

I like the logo; it is very nice and shows the apple tree which is in one of the first guilds that permaculturists usually learn about.

honestly. I think its korney,it makes the excellence you do into a joke. You are far better than this super Pee logo.

Steve

By androgyny we meant the sex appears ambiguous.

Steven Harris wrote: it depicts a sole man as its logo

Yes, and that is part of the beauty of art. It is up to the viewer to interpret the meaning. I think the logo shows a woman, however, I could be wrong.

For example, I am slightly confused by the chest, hair, and crotch. Some guys have long hair, and I think the intention is a woman with the chest, but I don't know and don't care. Whatever.

BUT a discussion about sex types and body morphology is something for another time and another place. As mentioned earlier, I think keeping the sex ambiguous is nice because the ambiguity keeps everyone happy.

It's man, it's a woman, it's a human being! It's just a logo, and the logo looks nice.

Super Pee and Superman are both Men... if it was a woman, and you were man, you'd know it right away. "Wowsa....Hey baby" would be the male neanderthal reaction. This completely ignores and insults the great women (like Cedar from Oregon) who are a big part of this permacultre movement and intellectual property. Michael Obama and Hillery Clinton would be offended and seek the Justice League on you for this male dominated icon from you. Seems like the glass ceiling is well and intact in the permaculture field. Farmer Brown obviously has Mrs Brown slaving away in the Kitchen and taking care of the children while Farmer Brown is out in the fields all day.

Steve

- as a sexygenarian I have no problems with the Androgynous Non -shape,But did we really need to tuck Hayseeds behind both of our Protagonist's ears !

Big AL

- the rolled -up paints legs says our protagonist is short, O.K., but is that deliberate ? just a further thought ! big AL

Steven Harris wrote: PLUS... it depicts a sole man as its logo. Half the people in permaculture are women. It totally ignores women to the point of insult.

I happened to think it was a "woman" due to the rounded chest area, but that was just my initial thought.. But, what is a "woman"? Really? Different discussion, for a different thread I suppose though..

However, even if it was a man, I don't think that would make me un-enlightened. For one, I didn't actually create it. For two, why does it matter what sex our logo is? Why does sex have to matter here? It is really important to me that both sexes are involved in permaculture, but does our tiny little logo make a difference? I wouldn't find it insulting or offensive if it was a man, and I happen to be quite the intense, sometimes easily-offended feminist.. And I don't think this logo is sexist, at all.

Umm, what was the old one? I can't remember it offending anyone... :~)

Well...after much thinking...the graphic artist in me thinks it is over all a..."right nice logo!" I have to digest the color scheme a bit...but that can be transient as I have already taken it and looked at it in a "black and white" negative...looks real good then too...

As for gender...who cares...?? Permaculture is Gender Neutral as far as I can tell...and has no bearing either way or the spectrum there of...

Anyone that can't tell this is a female (or at least a transgender person) needs to get there sense of reality (or vision) checked...and/or shouldn't bother with none constructive comments to the general graphics of the question..."what do ya'll think of our new logo"...

As a Graphic Artist, et al I will state...Good Job!

my 2¢...

It's ok, I think I liked the old one better... but speaking of old, I guess I can't remember what it was!?!?!

What appear to be fists on hips gives me the impression of insistence or righteousness, and seems to imply a subtle demand of some kind. I don't get a soft message of partnering with nature that I'd like. I'd much rather see open hands.

Looks mighty spiffy to me - a new farmer with a fancy straw hat and rolled up overalls - ready to muck around with the pigs, chickens and cows.

I believe I would like it better if there were a few pixels gesturing at facial features. No eyes, no nose, no mouth? A bit frightening. But it's pretty cool otherwise.

i think it sucks go back to the drawing board, i'd be embarassed.

Personally I liked the old logo, but I'm male so I imagine that factors in there a little (the other logo with burning things and cutting things really appealed to my slash-and-burn side).

But aside from personal tendencies, the graphic design in this logo is really high-school-looking. I mean, I get what the designer was trying to do, but it comes across as a little corny.

I've done graphic design before and I actually refuse to do it anymore because I come up with things that look like that logo. Graphic design is not easy.

The other logo, apart from people's feelings about the content or style, looked like it was done professionally.

my 2c
William

Lots of discussion on gender, what if it's meant to be a permaculture tranny? There are after all generous bulges on the crotch AND upper chest. Does it make a difference? Are we hypersensitive to gender issues? I don't hear anyone commenting about how it misrepresents permaculture people as being of European descent. This person is clearly not from Uganda, Columbia or Tajikistan.

As to the logo design, which is what I believe the question of the OP was hoping to get feedback on, I'd say that it's good that there's an effort to do more branding and corporate identity.

That said, I don't think this is as good as it could or should be.

First of all, a good logo will work at large and at small scale, and as we have seen, there is a significant difference in the size posted ABOVE the thread and the size posted IN the thread. What happens when you print it on a letterhead? How much detail is lost? What happens when you print it in poster size? How much meaning and focus is lost?

Secondly, there are too many colors: Black, White, Light Blue, Dark Blue, Pale Blue, Tan, Cream, Olive-Brown, Olive-Green, Green, Dark Green, Red, Pink, Purple, at first glance. What happens when it gets printed on a black and white printer? Will anything be recognizable? Aim for 2 or 3 colors and this problem goes away. What happens when you inverse the colors? Does is still clearly indicate your brand?

Thirdly, what is the message of the logo? And who is that message for? Logos are more than just graphics that someone created. Logos convey the brand to the permies. If permies.com had central offices somewhere, the logo would be prominently displayed above the doors. If I saw this logo anywhere in the internet, it would not have any meaning for me.

Or maybe the logo isn't even for permies.com, maybe it is supposed to be the Official Logo of All Things Permaculture Everywhere (™) to be posted on permaculture.co.uk as well as permaculture.com.au and every permaculture blog in between. That's at least what the graphic suggests. that it is not related to this site specifically, but is trying to demonstrate permaculture principles like biodiversity. Plus, the tree behind the person makes it look like they are having a severe diarrhea attack.

My advice:

1. Create several designs yourself or crowd source it with a competition within the permies community or use a site like 99designs.com
2. Round of feedback for each design, Pros and Cons.
3. Redesign based on feedback.
4. Repeat as needed.

I think it is too busy for a logo. I also don't see how the Vs coming out of the tree add to it. I also agree about the stance of the person standing in front with the hands on the hips is kind of unfriendly especially considering there is no facial expression.

I think a better logo would show a house surrounded by fruit trees and bushes or some sort of drawing to suggest a food forest.

Or if you want to keep the apple tree, do a guild showing other food growing underneath and out to the sides filling up all the space making sort of a pyramid of colorful food (with a rounded top). You could have berries, melons, grapes, nasturtiums. kiwis, tomatoes, cucumbers, lettuce (maybe one of each). If you want to keep the tree roots you could include a couple worms with smiley faces (to suggest happy healthy soil). Beneath the worms spell out "Permies.com" I don't think you need to have a person in the picture at all

Unless, maybe you could have an outline of a house behind the tree and all the abundance of the guild with four smiling faces looking through the windows out at the guild loaded with food in their front yard.

If you want to be able to use this "logo" on a business card you do need to keep it simple though. Maybe just the tree with the guild would do it.

I like how it's gender is unknown. My initial response was being reminded of this guy.



He is an obvious oil man, representing the riches that came to my local community because of oil drilling. Very fitting to substitute a fruit tree for an oil Derrick, and the obvious man with a not so obvious person.

Alexander ojeda made our old logos. Like this one:



And then Cassie and lots of other folks spent months coming up with a cool social media icon for us:



I really like the social media icon. Sorta says a superhero that wears overalls and the "P" would be for "Permaculture" or "Permies".

So then the question came up for what would be the richer logo on the forums to match the new superhero icon?

So I turned to Alexander. The first drawing he sent looked male to me, but he said it was a genderless person. I then asked for a female version and what you see now is the female.

I like what Alexander came up with. But I'm open to other ideas. Andybody wanna try their hand at a logo that matches our new social media icon?

I really liked the old logo set, including the way it was always new each time you looked at it. The new logo does look a bit "high-schoolish" to me, and objectively refers to only one aspect of the permaculture world and this site. I fully agree about the description of "logo" being a design that can be used in many different scales and contexts; this one won't work that way. It could perhaps work in grayscale, but small-scale silhouette as a logo sometimes needs to be used will not work well.

The social media icon is a good graphic design which is adaptable to a range of scales and presentations.

I would suggest using something like this but bigger with a subtitle.
It would lead to a good integration with the other social media icons and be more general. Could lose the green background and work toward embellishing the super 'p'.

If the idea is to go with the bibs/overalls and a superhuman 'P', I think that's an good idea, especially with the social media icons going in that direction.

It just might be better to make it more bland, as logos are generally bland creatures who's objective is to create something instantly recognizable and multi-functional. What is currently happening is less of a logo and more of a work of art, fine unto itself but something that's not very functional as a logo.

William

I agree with Chad and William,

What you have right now is more of an illustration than a logo. That is not a bad thing, but it would be hard to use as an identifiable mark in other applications (business card, letter head, etc). On websites and other communication media the logo is used to build brand recognition, being instantly recognized. Illustrations, photos and the words tell the reader what it is the organization does.

When working with clients I talk to them about the emotion or message that needs to be communicated in the simplest form possible. Look at many major successful corporations. I know that many of us are doing what we are because we don't want to be a part of that world anymore, but there are some lessons that can be learned from organizations like Nike, Apple and AT&T. None of them have a logo showing what they produce. But the logo does communicate something about their values or solutions for the world. AT&T is about bringing the world together and allowing them to connect, Apple communicate that they do things just a little differently and Nike wants you to fly like the wind with the wings of a Greek god.

People often times want to put too much information into a logo design. They want to communicate everything they do in a picture format. The logo should be simple, clean and instantly recognizable. I often times use the silhouette test to see if it is a successful logo. If you can reproduce the logo in a single color at a small size and it still is clearly readable, then you have a successful logo.

I think as long as the superhero "P" symbol communicates the intended message then you already have your logo (identifiable mark). It just needs to be fleshed out a bit with the rest of the "permies.com" wording. I will play around with some ideas and see what I can come up with.

As for the illustration, place it in the right top corner of the site opposite the logo. This will help communicate what the site is about

Nike = Font + Swoosh and sometimes "Just Do It."

All three can be used together or alone and all have instant recognizability.

Permies.com could = Font + "Super P" and sometimes "All The Time."

All three could be used together or alone and could have instant recognizability.

And that's what goes into making a killer logo that does the job of a logo.
William

One of a few first concepts learned in design/arts is "K.I.S.S.", "keep it simple, stupid".

This isn't a logo, it's an illustration.

A logo should be a clean, impact-full representation of the "brand". Reproducible in several applications and needs.

Has there been any discussion about purchasing a typeface that the branding can revolve around? A professional and quality font can elevate and give good ground to stand on. From there you can introduce a color and possibly a small icon/graphic (like you've done with apples or the sickle). Easy breezy. Letterhead, website, shipping, all done in one.

I suggest browsing nerdy typeface sites like "youworkforthem.com" -- you can try out a name/phrase in browser, no commitments.

Chad Sentman wrote:
Secondly, there are too many colors: Black, White, Light Blue, Dark Blue, Pale Blue, Tan, Cream, Olive-Brown, Olive-Green, Green, Dark Green, Red, Pink, Purple, at first glance. What happens when it gets printed on a black and white printer? Will anything be recognizable? Aim for 2 or 3 colors and this problem goes away. What happens when you inverse the colors? Does is still clearly indicate your brand?

Because I enjoy fiddling around in photoshop, and those bright red apples were making my eyes vibrate, I had fun sloppily changing the colors. I reduced it to 3 colors, changed the red to the red of our apples and the green to the Super P green. I also removed the swoops, just to see what it looked like... I'm not good at mentally visualizing things, and figure others might not be either, so here's the versions I did, in case it helps someone else...

I also did a sepia version for fun...

Very nice! I like the full sepia version you posted because it keeps it simple and matches the light and dark brown website configuration. What it was all green, like the color that the permies scythe is?

Here it is with the tones of the sythe's olive green (one version with brighter saturations of the olive hue; the other is all toned down).

Here it is all in shades of the "Super P" green...

I really wish I had more time to weigh in with a design. I agree the comments that this isn't a logo it is an illustration. I like it but it isn't something you can slap on everything to move the Permies brand forward. I want to find time to figure something out that fits. I will see what I can do. Though I do like that it isn't as generic as the sun icon that it replaced.

I got more "Making nature my b#$%h" than "Working with nature so that I have less work to do and more time to eat pie." I think the spread leg power stance/hands on hips is the main part, but also the person being front and center my help create that effect.

It also feels a bit busy; more of a picture than a logo.

Ok. Here's a very very very rough logo. It's a repurposing of Ryan's social icon.
The colors, the fonts, and the placement are all very rough, but it's just to give people the idea.

This would allow you to
a) just use the super p
b) use the super p in conjunction with bibs and overalls, since the identification is with the super p.
c) use the super p in conjunction with "All the time" as in a "Nike. just do it." sort of way.
d) strip the subtitle out and use it for social media (as Ryan has already done)
e) swap up color schemes depending on the context.

In my humble opinion as a one-time wannabe graphic designer (and not because I worked 10 minutes on it) this is more effective as a logo.

ps: I can put some more work into it, maybe make the super p stand out a bit and get a better font if people want to go in this direction.
William

William, the new icon/logo you made is epic!

Nicole, I like the version of the illustration with the three versions of green.

Just something to consider: the Colorblind Web Page Filter and the Color Blindness Simulator might be helpful to check how images look when see from different types of color blindness.