what do ya'll think of our new logo?

Couldn't resist.... oh well.

The superman is super goofy and permies is all about goofy. Nonetheless here is something to break the mould.

Or for some complete rebranding:

I really like the first three ones, Jake.

However, the last two bring out my immature teenager. *giggles* May I ask why an "S" was placed in front of permies?

For giggles

Also just noticed that I got the slogan wrong on some of them; I accidentally put "permaculture" before "homesteading."

I really liked the old logos. Very simple, and I think the fact they changed from time to time just added something.

I'm a bit of a details person, the one who watches a movie and can't help but be distracted by the little things that are incorrect.

That said,

The "V"'s shooting off seem out of place. If you want the rays shooting out, I wouldn't place them over the tree. I think a bit of a halo effect from behind the tree would look better, but none at all would look best in my opinion.

The next thing that jumped out at me was, why are the roots are not connected to the tree and why does only the tree have roots if roots are there.

The generic person, is a little distracting as you try to figure out if it is male or female to just end up wondering about it in the end.

In my opinion, maybe a 5 or 6 out of 10. It's a good drawing but not what I would call a "logo".

"Permies.com" is part of your closing tag line in the videos, like Nike's "Just do it". The other logos were simple and included it.

I would make something more like the old ones and incorporate the green diamond "P" into "Permies.com"

Now that I think about it, maybe a green diamond "P" Permies.com, with a back ground you can alternate like a sickle, a hugle bed, a scythe, a picture like this logo, etc.

I think it encompasses everything. The whole is the sum of its parts, and more. And the fertilizer "Super P" goes to the roots to feed the fruits, flowers and shoots!

Chris Knipstein wrote:I really liked the old logos. Very simple, and I think the fact they changed from time to time just added something.

I'm a bit of a details person, the one who watches a movie and can't help but be distracted by the little things that are incorrect.

I'm a creature of habit too. I really dug all that too and hated when the logos changed - especially from the brown with the carrot to the green with the P in my tabs. It drove me nuts for about 3 weeks. Then I adapted. I think it all depends on the target audience anyway.

Also, it's growing on me as I key in on the details a bit.

The stitching on the permie patch is a nice touch as are the swoops. Obviously that tree is absorbing the force of some mighty winds...

I'd like the greenage in the back ground to be a little more flash. Some fireweed? Fox glove? Red hot poker? You know, lots of flower tubes for pollinating birds and bees .

I like the strong gender iffy illustration, I immediately saw it as playing off the classic "Superman" pose:


However, I do like the slightly simpler version with toned down color and without the V shaped whatsits coming out of the apple tree that Nicole posted. I have brown Carhart overalls, myself.

Whatever the future of the logo and re-branding experiments, I would urge integration rather than separation (aka hodgepodgery).
The latter doesn't make for a good communications strategy (assuming people want that)...
William

William - can you clarify separation vs integration? I have found that when it comes to logo making you just gotta sit down and bang out 101 ideas that might be completely different and mutually exclusive and then pick out the best ones and identify what works and what doesn't work.

It might be good to start a running list of things we think permies represents:
- talking about permaculture an homesteading all the time
- diy
- working with nature
- finding sustainable ways to be lazy
- goofieness
- community problem solving

homesteading:
- self sufficiency
- living heathy
- diy
- growing food
- building stuff
- scythes

permaculture ethics:
fair share
people care
earth care

permaculture principles:
- observe and interact
- catch an store energy
- obtain a yield
- apply self regulation and accept feedback
- use and value renewable resources and services
- produce no waste
- design from patterns to details
- integrate rather than segregate
- use small and slow solutions
- use and value diversity
- use edge and value the marginal
- creatively use and respond to change

This was it, i like it a lot and in my opinion you should keep it.

I don't like the super P icons, it gives me a sense of super hero, fantasy movie thing.
I don't think what we are doing is only a fantasy and a cheap story of a super hero.
Design science, down to earth work and having fun at the same time!

I think new "logo" is too complicated and it feels like too much diversity without connection.
You asked for opinion, i hope it's not discouraging.

Would like to say you are doing awesome job with this online community and everything else, thank you!!!

@Jake

William - can you clarify separation vs integration?

My point is that the communication strategy can either
1) Choose to be heterogenous and not care that the communication strategy is not focused.
2) Choose one of the many themes you listed and develop a communication strategy around that.

(2) would be an example of integration and (1) would be an example of separation.

Is that clear enough? I suspect my posts might be confusing. If not let me know and I'll try and provide more info. One thought I had was of the recent movements to get social icons set up, and then the logo comes in and doesn't have much to do with the previous work on the social icons, stylistically speaking.

@Aljaz

This was it, i like it a lot and in my opinion you should keep it.

There was another "original" logo with a sythe. Very similar. I thought it was effective enough. On the other hand, I can see why someone might want to change it, and that might have something to do with creating a less "macho" logo, I don't know.

William

I also really liked our old logo/headers, especially the fact that they rotated though. They were all so pretty, creative, and fun. I don't see why we have to get rid of them (I also hate change)--why not just add our new ones to the rotation? So, for fun, I took the old logo and pasted in the "Super P" logo, as well as the Super Permie in front of the tree. I made the tree one all green to match, as well as to take some of the ethnicity out of the question--can't tell what ethnicity he/she is if he/she is green! I like the fact that you can't really distinguish gender--it makes it more inclusive .

@Nicole
Those logos are great. I really like how you integrated things. The fact that you took the swooshes out also makes me happy.

The only constructive criticism I have is
a) The permies font is grainy (I suppose you just copied it over - would need to get a hold of the original to do a good font swap) -- This is easily fixed.

b) The super P in the second (green) logo isn't the same size as the "ermies" which creates a bit of a jarring effect visually. That might be able to be fixed, but the standing figure might have to be made bigger or the "ermies" made smaller to create the effect of continuity between the two font sizes.

Nice work.
William

William James wrote:@Nicole
Those logos are great. I really like how you integrated things. The fact that you took the swooshes out also makes me happy.

The only constructive criticism I have is
a) The permies font is grainy (I suppose you just copied it over - would need to get a hold of the original to do a good font swap) -- This is easily fixed.

b) The super P in the second (green) logo isn't the same size as the "ermies" which creates a bit of a jarring effect visually. That might be able to be fixed, but the standing figure might have to be made bigger or the "ermies" made smaller to create the effect of continuity between the two font sizes.

Nice work.
William

My thoughts were much the same! I don't know what font Alexander used, but I'm sure that, since he made the original images, he'd be able to make a much cleaner version than I can with copies and "Print Screen" images.

I made another Super Tree logo, with the sizes modified to see how it looks.

I just wanted to say how much it makes me smile to see the "old" permies logo back with an Einstein, as well as Pi, twist. The Pi, especially, is a great twist, seeing as Paul loves pie so much. The variations on the permies logo are also really fun in the same way that the Google logo changes frequently. I keeps things interesting, while still being familiar. Love it!

Originally this was more of a graphic for the website with logo potential. It was supposed to embellish the social media logo that we all worked on. I've been doing logos for decades and purposefully did what I did due to the circumstances. That's on me. I hope that we can work on this together to make it perfect like we did the social media logo. I hope you like it.

Here's what it's like with the arms free. I like this one better.

The fists on the hips is nothing more than representing determination and an understanding that we have a lot of work to do. I see no violence in this at all. When Paul asked me to work up this idea it was with the idea that this was a superhero, that's what superheros seem to do. I hope you like it.

William James wrote:

ps: I can put some more work into it, maybe make the super p stand out a bit and get a better font if people want to go in this direction.
William

I am fond of cooper for this context, less "industrial". My Dad used to own a sign company specializing in hand crafted wooden signs. Cooper was by far the most attractive and popular font.

Cooper

it doesnt seem inviting... more shielding .... not really a common person sense to it

Permaculture is for everbody and we don't have to be a super hayseed do we?

I may never get the hang of it... but it is the pursuit of perfection that drives us on... right?

I, personally, like your little logo, Evan. The colors are bright and happy, and the image is very clear. You might want to get rid of, or change, the grey on the person's throat, though. Because of how the image is cropped, it looks like the person has a beard. I know it's supposed to be an undershirt, but why would someone be wearing a button-up shirt, a turtleneck, and overalls while working in the garden?--I would overheat! Also, the grey adds, I think, some unnecessary "busy-ness" to the picture, drawing the eye from the center of focus.

I really like the simplicity of the black and white image, and I think you did a fantastic job by making the "Super P" patch the only thing (other than the background) that isn't white. It really draws the eye.

As for "elbows in" versus "elbows out," I think they both look nice, and would do well for different circumstances.

I'd also like to see the black and white version in the permies olive green, too.



For fun, I did a quick little fiddle with the black and white to make it olive and white, and put the permies words to the right of the image. I just wanted to see what it would look like in the old permies logo format. I figured I'd share it so other's can see it, too, though I don't know how well it works...

Oh, and I, personally, like the current font. But, then, I hate change, and the font is familiar, and thus it gives me the "warm-fuzzies."

Hmmm, looking at it a little longer, and the chin seems to be a little unnecessarily busy. I end up staring at that little piece of neck quite a bit. I think you could just not have a chin and have the person have a long neck, and it would be a little simpler and still look good and realisitic.

Like this? What do you think?

Nicole Alderman wrote:Hmmm, looking at it a little longer, and the chin seems to be a little unnecessarily busy. I end up staring at that little piece of neck quite a bit. I think you could just not have a chin and have the person have a long neck, and it would be a little simpler and still look good and realisitic.

Like this? What do you think?

Soften the "P". It is still too "industrial". Looks like Rosy the riveter to me! It's a different war we are fighting. That's why I suggested "Cooper" above. Same basic design, but the lettering has rounded edges. It is a super power, but instead of destruction of the enemy with industry, regenerating the land by nature. Get it?

I've done a lot of reading about brand recently.

Brand is your relationship with your audience.

What makes Permies.com distinct in its relationship with its audience?

Summarize that in a distinctive and simple logo.

I like the new one a bit better, but really I can't answer what Permies.com's relationship is with its audience so I can't say whether the logo is the best it could be.

Number 1 but they all need color.

I don't know if it was the original design or not, but the "Permies.com" with the sickle is a classy and simple logo that is actually quite appealing to the uninitiated. When I first stumbled across this website one of the things that intrigued me was the logo. If I came across one of these newer concepts I think I would have been put off somehow. As an artist myself, I know how much work goes into this sort of a project and I don't want to ruffle any feathers, but I think this whole new design concept is kinda wierd. I'll just step down from my soapbox, now, and melt back into the crowd.

I like green and white, plain border around the P, arms free and no chin.

Just some thoughts, and opinions to add to the discussion.

It is my opinion, my personal experience (years ago) and my experience of talking to people, that permaculture is quite an opaque world from the outside.

Jeff Lawton says something like you get the biggest impact when you talk to normal people, rather than the outliers.

A decision needs to be made regarding who the logo will speak to. Does it speak to permies or to the general public?

Asking a bunch of people who are already 'in', may not be the best way of deciding whether something is attractive to those who are 'not in'

Even permies.com is a difficult attractor. It's jargon. You need to know first that a 'permie' is one who practices permaculture.

The tree/ person/ roots thing is only talking about permaculture from a garden perspective.

What Paul does is one of the major threads of permaculture in the world. It, again in my opinion, is super important that this is represented in a professional way.

The point of all this strategic activity, such as logos, daily email, videos etc etc is to bring people who are not here, to here. The logo needs to support that. It's much more important that something is effective, rather than liked, (as long as it is broadly in line with your values) if you want it to attract new people.

paul wheaton wrote:Alexander ojeda made our old logos. Like this one:



And then Cassie and lots of other folks spent months coming up with a cool social media icon for us:



I really like the social media icon. Sorta says a superhero that wears overalls and the "P" would be for "Permaculture" or "Permies".

So then the question came up for what would be the richer logo on the forums to match the new superhero icon?

So I turned to Alexander. The first drawing he sent looked male to me, but he said it was a genderless person. I then asked for a female version and what you see now is the female.

I like what Alexander came up with. But I'm open to other ideas. Andybody wanna try their hand at a logo that matches our new social media icon?

I just want to start by refocusing on what Paul originally said about all this. The vast majority of the time, there is a "client" for a logo design project, and unless he pipes up again, the quote above is what the client/Paul asked for.

I think the request for a logo that is different on social media and the website is a flawed request. I take the blame, because I had this thought when the request was originally posted. I kept silent to see how it would play out, and in hindsight, probably shouldn't have.

The vast majority of the time a logo should be simple and iconic enough to use everywhere consistently. That means the logo should look the same whether small on a business card, or huge on a billboard. Most brands also pick a color and stick with it.

A logo design is 99% subjective. Some people will like it, and some people will hate it, and some people will not care. That makes consensus nearly impossible. Based on podcasts, Paul does not seem to be a fan of consensus, but that is what a logo by committee process becomes.

I think it is fine to have a small group work on a logo, and then have a larger group vote on whther they like it or not. If more than half vote they like it, the logo is a winner.

In my opinion, keep the social icons that Paul already likes, or tweak the original scythe logo to work everywhere (I suspect that logo has been viewed by more eyeballs for more years than the new social logos).

Instead of spending the resources on a new logo, spend those resources applying one logo consistently everywhere: website, social channels, videos, downloads, etc. Then spend resources on getting that same logo in front of new eyeballs.

Thoughts?

Paul?

Going on the assumption that we need to spark the interest of "outsiders" (and I know it changes the entire drawing) I would suggest you use a horn of plenty somehow as it is a universal icon. It states, pretty much, what Permaculture is ultimately all about. For the future, hungry people are going to be looking for just what Permies.com offers. Yes I do believe Permaculture is the superhero of what is to come but a horn of plenty says it much better.
I like the elbows outside of the frame btw...

Well, I am late to the discussion, and I agree with the idea that there needs to be a designated audience/population, and a clear objective for the logo to accopmplis or address, still once that is decided is the question how to depict it.

IMHO:

yes, the female figure in overalls (fertility, mother earth, abundance are associated with female biological functioning),
yes, the sickle as the "C" (I have one I found in a junk shop, did not even know I needed it, now in the midst of weed season, I use it all the time),
yes, the cornucopia idea. I think it speaks for the potential of permaculture to (as does a super hero) extricate us from a dire predicament.
yes, overalls, for practicality and comfort.

The artists who can make images to communicate feelings objectives identity values and community are rare indeed. YAY artists! There are a lot of good fun images already on this thread. I'm curious to see the outcome.

Thekla

The one with the sickle, my daughter walked behind my chair, and remarked, "Oh, the grim reaper?"

I'm partial to the "superman" P overalls in living technicolor: it makes Permaculture seem do-able by everyone, yet those who achieve mastery, they are uniquely qualified.
Frankly, it gives me a smile and a warm feeling of being part of a special group of people who can roll up their sleeves and get the job done. Think Rosie the riveter. 'We can do it."

Alex,

I love the newest version, with the elbows out, in color. I think the font is fine the way it is. Cooper seems not rugged enough for us.

may have missed some part of discussion, but the race of the old image's figure seems to be white and male, and I think it would be important to emphasize the inclusion of all humans in permaculture. A solution could be to really green the figure's skin, so it's not any particular racial color. Other than that, it looks great to me. I like the superman/wonderwoman pose, and the rosie-the-riveter feel. by the way, they make a rosie the riveter action figure. how about a permies action figure?? huh? made of cob or something? ok i'll just entertain myself

I like "Permies Out of the Box" above but I think that the "ermies" needs to be moved to the left so it connects more to the P. You could move it over and add an out line to the "e" so it stays defined.

Or maybe have that arm extend out over the letters in a "here it is" and welcoming way. A nice way to send a welcoming message to new and old users. Fits in the "be nice" ethic of the community here as well. You could then easily move the "ermies" over closer to the P.

Extending the arm would work nicely. Somehow the solid border for the P also makes it easier for the eye, (mine anyway). to link the P with the rest of the word too.

I really appreciate the logo discussion here. Being the artist, I'm kinda the last word on what I do. Anyone is welcome to do what they want to do and Paul can use what he wants. I've included what I think works best for what Paul and I have discussed and a few of the suggestions in the thread.

Some notes, the skin of the person is the same as the background. I already have too many colors in there as it is. I think the font of the P is exactly what we were looking for. I like the permies.com to be written out completely and by itself under the logo. It keeps the branding simple and solid. Oh, and I really liked the old logos with the sickle, RMH and others too. They were my attempt to have lots of different cool things in the logo and revolve like the Google logo does. The branding would be the distressed typewriter font of permies.com.

I hope you like this:

Works for me!
Thank you for doing this!