washing dishes: by hand vs. dishwasher

allen lumley wrote:Logan Simmering : Please correct me if I am wrong , I have been thinking all this time that it was the long acting anti bacterials that were endangering us ! I have not personally
heard or read of any cases of the use of Ethanol, which is not found in Rubbing Alcohol, as promoting resistance in Bacteria ! Mostly rubbing Alcohol is Isopropyl Alcohol and some-
times partially Methanol! The only places I have heard or read of it's use is in Haiti and in the Palestinian 'Border Camps' and now in Syria. I too understand the problems of over
use of antibiotics, and the kinds of anti bacterial soap that leave a residue of long lasting/acting films directly on the skin - but my understanding was the use of anti bacterial soap
was a totally different issue from that of the use of ETOH in 'Hand Cleansers '!

For the Good of the Craft ! Think like Fire, Flo like Gas, Don't be the Marshmallow ! As always, your comments and questions are solicited and are Welcome Big AL !

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2898873/, which is classified by the EPA as a probable human carcinogen. A study published in 2007 illustrated that, under some circumstances, triclosan triggered the production of chloroform in amounts up to 40% higher than background levels in chlorine-treated tap water.9 But another study published the same year showed no formation of detectable chloroform levels over a range of expected tooth-brushing durations among subjects using toothpaste with triclosan and normal chlorinated tap water.10

Studies also have yielded conflicting findings regarding links between triclosan and adverse health effects in animals. One study, for example, associated exposure to low levels of triclosan with disrupted thyroid hormone–associated gene expression in tadpoles, which encouraged them to prematurely change into frogs,11 while another linked triclosan exposure with reduced sperm production in male rats.12 In contrast, research published in February 2010 showed no effect of triclosan on the normal course of thyroid-mediated metamorphosis in bullfrog tadpoles at environmentally relevant concentrations.13

Our results indicate that short-term exposure to triclosan has a negative impact on the culturable heterotrophic microbial community in soil. The reduced microbial diversity found in GWT-irrigated soils is likely to be the result of toxic effects of triclosan on specific microbial populations although the exact mechanism responsible for the observed change has not been determined. In addition to the possible direct impacts of triclosan as a biocide, interactions such as sorption, change in pH, and exchange of materials within the soil organic fraction, as well as interactions between microbial populations may have contributed to the observed inhibition and should be further explored. The similarity of diversity seen in the culturable heterotrophic community in the GWT-irrigated soils to diversity of the triclosan-resistant microbial groups may reflect a convergence of microbial population structures in response to the toxicity of triclosan. This reduced diversity may be associated with impairment or loss of microbially mediated processes essential to soil fertility.

Mrs. EdJacobs wrote:1. Hand washing preferred. If a dishwasher is available I will use it as the drying rack. Also, unless I need something immediately, or need more space, everything air dries. Why get a towel all wet and take time to do it if it happens all by itself?

2. I DESPISE SPONGES!!! They just get nasty too quickly and can never truly be cleaned. Yes, they can be "sanitized" in a microwave, but I don't use one of those either. So I use wash cloths. Generally I use a new one for each meal's washing, but at least a new one each day. (I actually hate mops, too, of any kind. If my floor needs cleaning I'll get down on hands and knees with rags and a bucket of water - OR use the last of the dish water if it isn't really gross.


I mop with a clean terri cloth towel I have just for that, just wet it like you want and put foot on each side go to it . A lot easier on my back




3. I use only Dawn dish soap. I've never found anything else (except Costco Kirkland brand) that works as well. Cheaper stuff? You use 3x as much, so not really cheaper. More expensive stuff? You use 3x as much, so definitely not cheaper. More eco-friendly stuff? Doesn't work well so you use 3x as much again. Dawn is used to help de-grease birds and other creatures after an oil spill, so...

Something to think about when using a dishwasher: Dishwashers are supposed to clean your dishes without any pre-washing! Obviously you scrape off big chunks and bones, but sauces and small bits of food? Leave them be. The dishwasher detergent is designed to act on the food stuffs. If you've rinsed everything off, then it goes to work on the dishes themselves, which is a leading cause of etched/cloudy glassware.

Anonymous wrote:

Oh it's also as quiet as a kid getting into mischief. 

paul wheaton wrote:This is a space where I have personally witnessed a lot of crazy first hand.  And heard about plenty more second hand. 

And, this is an excellent example of of how some of the greenest people succomb to the greenwashing of madison avenue:  "using a dishwasher saves water over washing dishes by hand"

I am about to spell out how this is a load of horse potatoes.   

First, I have another nit to pick:  In the last couple of years, I have seen greenies get their knickers in a twist over water usage.  The panic seems to be about in the manufacture of something, 200 gallons of water is used.  Okay, that calculates out to a certain amount of power that was pumped up out of the ground ....  but the greenies are treating it as if that 200 gallons of water went into the product which will eventually end up in the dump - and at this rate we're gonna run out of water.   If this is anything other than a red herring, I think we need to start a new thread and talk about it. But, I'm quite certain that the water is used and then returned to the water cycle so it is still on the planet and available for reuse. 

There are REAL environmental issues to be concerned about, and too many greenies are wasting their concern over red herrings.

The doing-it-by-hand technique that beats the most eco dish washer under any circumstances is pretty simple:  use a dishpan;  run just a tiny amount of water (quarter cup?) to wash the first thing.  Then use a tiny amount of water to rinse that one thing, with the rinse water running into the dishpan.  As you are on to the fifth thing, you have a bit more soapy water in the bottom of the pan.  So you can start washing bigger things.  By the time you are done washing and rinsing everything, there should be about two quarts of water used.

Eco dishwashers set to eco mode use about 9 gallons of water and usually don't get the dishes clean unless you clean them first. 

Granted, it is possible for a person to wash dishes by hand where they leave the water running and waste lots and lots of water.  I am certainly not advocating that.

jimmy gallop wrote:

Mrs. EdJacobs wrote:1.  Hand washing preferred.  If a dishwasher is available I will use it as the drying rack.  Also, unless I need something immediately, or need more space, everything air dries.  Why get a towel all wet and take time to do it if it happens all by itself?

2.  I DESPISE SPONGES!!!  They just get nasty too quickly and can never truly be cleaned.  Yes, they can be "sanitized" in a microwave, but I don't use one of those either.  So I use wash cloths.  Generally I use a new one for each meal's washing, but at least a new one each day.  (I actually hate mops, too, of any kind.  If my floor needs cleaning I'll get down on hands and knees with rags and a bucket of water - OR use the last of the dish water if it isn't really gross.


I mop with a clean terri cloth towel I have just for that, just wet it like you want and put foot on each side go to it . A lot easier on my back




3.  I use only Dawn dish soap.  I've never found anything else (except Costco Kirkland brand) that works as well.  Cheaper stuff?  You use 3x as much, so not really cheaper.  More expensive stuff?  You use 3x as much, so definitely not cheaper.  More eco-friendly stuff?  Doesn't work well so you use 3x as much again.  Dawn is used to help de-grease birds and other creatures after an oil spill, so...

Something to think about when using a dishwasher:  Dishwashers are supposed to clean your dishes without any pre-washing!  Obviously you scrape off big chunks and bones, but sauces and small bits of food?  Leave them be.  The dishwasher detergent is designed to act on the food stuffs.  If you've rinsed everything off, then it goes to work on the dishes themselves, which is a leading cause of etched/cloudy glassware.