Reforestation - Growing trees in arid, barren lands - by Seeds and Clay cubes (no watering)

Good luck Myron,

Keep us posted.

I am a bit concerned that the dried fruit may have dead seeds.....sometimes during the drying process the seeds also dry up...we will see.

Next year you may want to try seeds from fresh fruits, and try  planting them in late fall before the ground freezes or early spring when the ground becomes soft.

The pictures with the snow look great !!!

Kostas

100% agree, Kosta. I wanted a way to get something started quickly. Ideally, I would have put the seeds into holes, instead of on top of the frozen ground. But currently, that’s just not realistic.

Great !!!

I like your go to it, attitude

Kostas

Konstantinos Karoubas wrote:Apple seeds
The apple seeds were kept in the refrigerator since December 24 in wet/moist sand. They were beginning to form mold.... today they were cleaned/rinsed and will be placed in the fridge until they are planted... hopefully in the next week.

Some of the seeds are from the apples we ate from our farm...but 2/3 were bought from a seed company in Italy.
This is the 1st year I am trying to scarify the apple seeds this way...will see how it goes.

I plan on planting 5 seeds or more per hole. Hopefully the weather will be cold enough to complete the scarification process and the conditions will be favorable/not very adverse.

We also collected seeds from store bought apples. It seems store bought apples have seeds that were cold scarified, just to the right degree. They do very well here...40 to 50% survival rate. Two or three of these seeds will be placed in each hole.

Again to summarize what we do: seeds are placed in the ground and are left to fend for themselves... totally; no intervention.

Thus keeps the cost of time and money to a bare minimum, and allows a single individual to have a significant positive impact on his/her surroundings.

As always we are at the mercy of mother nature and I have gone to the same piece of land 3 and 4 or 5 times before it's completely covered with trees.

Kostas

Hello Kostas! Could you share the link to the italian seeds website? There are many good european seed sites but it is not easy to find the links

By the way, two good spanish seed sites are

www.theoriginalgarden.com
www.cantuesoseeds.com

I am having success with almond trees from seed, I will place some pictures on my thread later

Thank you Antonio,

The seed company I have used the last few years is
https://www.florsilva.it/en/

Mr. Fabrizio Ansaloni, the owner is very helpful. I bought apple seeds, plum and apricot seeds from them...they have others.

Thank you for the referral to the Spanish seed sites; I will look into them.

Looking forward to seeing your pictures and hearing about your project.

Kostas

Olive Trees !!!

As mentioned previously, the olive tree is an important tree to our efforts to begin reforesting the degraded land, especially in dry, bare regions.

Many of these areas used to be heavily forested in ancient times.

We are at the early stages in evaluating whether we can use the olive tree in our efforts.

Olive trees need to be able to grow from seed and thrive without any assistance; this will allow us to plant 200 to 500 trees per hour.

We do need to scarify it...but other than that we should not have to do anything. Just putting the olive pit in the ground, without scarification, will result in very low rates of success.

The scarification process involves removing the pulp around the pit and then using pliers to remove a small part of the pit without damaging the seed.

See    and others similar.

Unfortunately the investigation of this type of reforestation project is time consuming...you try something,and it may take a year or even two before you know if it works. It's one reason, it has taken 20 years to get to this point.

In the future we will try other scarification methods, if indeed the olive tree suits our needs.

Kostas

Transplanting Loquat Tree (Eriobotrya japonica)

Transplanting Loquat Tree (Eriobotrya japonica)

With some trees, it is difficult to store the seeds over the summer and to plant in the winter - the seeds tend to dry out etc.

One of these is the Loquat Tree (Eriobotrya japonica). Over the summer we grew a few of them, and now we are in the process of transplanting them to our projects.

Again the work will be done with as little effort as possible. Other than planting, and some minimal watering at that time, no other effort will be put into it. In retrospect, I should have done this in December or January.

The process of transplanting is shown in the pictures...it is important to keep the bare roots hydrated...and plant ASAP.

If this tree is suitable for this area, it will survive the long hot summers ahead and join the list of the other trees we can use.

The method of transplanting is not as efficient/costwise as just putting seeds in the ground, but it is still a lot less expensive than the conventional method of tree planting.

Kostas

Hi Kostas,
I was looking to see what was available in the tree world,just whatched a youtube vid about Spain begining to lose its soil due to tree removal etc.Your sugestion of walnuts trees seems a good one.Obviously this will take decades,but we need to repair the past mistakes for the land to be able to hold its own against the wind and sun.
Thanks Kostas,will make your sugestion to the people of Almeria,Spain.

kind regards Paul.

I've been watching this thread since I joined, I believe managed to read 90% of it. Massive respect for your efforts Kosta...

I could gather and send a massive amount of silver maple and black walnut seed if anyone needs. They would not be organic but I'm not sure if that would be a sticking point if your are trying to stop desertification.

There is the issue of customs, I have no idea what that entails?

Thanks for the kind words…

Paul, I don't know how well walnuts will do for low elevations like zones 8 or 9...but we should try them.
Read the previous threads, you will see that almonds, apricots, plums, oaks and others do well and you should try them (the micro climate is important-trial and error) It's amazing how destructive/dumb humans are...we are destroying our own house...bare mountains and plowed farmland are scars on the earth...as Wangari Maathai used to say...the earth is a beautiful lady that likes to be covered in green.

Ben, thanks...I was sure no one read these scribbles. Thanks for the generous offer on the walnuts and maple seeds...yes there are transatlantic issues, but I will keep your offer in mind, and when the time comes, we will manage to bring some.

There are large areas in the US that need help ASAP...like most of the arid southwest...these large fires are leaving scars... hopefully some natural revegetation will take place, but I am afraid the prospects are not good. The huge 2007 fires in southern Greece left many sides of hills bare...the topsoil washed away.

Tree planting, one at a time, by digging holes and watering will never get us there. The drones may be a solution, but they need to prove themselves in dry areas, which are difficult.

I don't know where you are...but please plant and update us.

Thanks

Kostas

An interesting article, about one way to contribute - have control of the land.


cleantechnica.com article


Kostas

Hola Kostas!

Just to inform you, I have many almond trees growing in my property, also apricots, all from seed.

But what it amazes me is that I have lots of chestnuts sprouting also, I didnt think those were going to thrive and they are. So maybe you could try those, I just bought them on the local supermarket. Spent 2,5€

Also I collected acorns in Madrid and sowed them. Lets see what sprouts.

I will not bury more seeds until next October (except those belonging to the fruits that I eat, I prefer to keep them on the soil than on the fridge, they will have their day)

Hola Antonio,

Felicitaciones for your success !!!

I will definitely try chestnuts at all locations next fall.

Send us a small video and/or photos.


Thanks

Kostas

Konstantinos Karoubas wrote:Hola Antonio,

Felicitaciones for your success !!!

I will definitely try chestnuts at all locations next fall.

Send us a small video and/or photos.


Thanks

Kostas

Here,some chestnuts sprouting

Hola Antonio,

Looking forward to seeing how your project progresses...it will be interesting to see what strength reserves the soil and nature has in your part of the world.

Wish you all the best !!!

Kostas

Spring....a time of hope

New life is struggling to emerge

Peace and abundance can be the fruits of these young trees.

Kostas

WOW! I just realized this thread has been going for almost 9 years! Do you, perchance, have any before and after pictures? I think it'd be so cool to see the changes that you've made over 9 years!

Hello Nicole,

It's been going on for 20 years...the 1st 12 being total failures...not a single tree from seed surviving.

The objective is and has been to plant trees in dry mediterranean climates at a fraction of the cost compared to conventional tree planting.

On the bottom of page 20 you will find a video and photos of by far the largest trees we have and on the top of page 21 you will find more photos.

Most of the trees we have planted are in difficult conditions...tough red clay and near or under pine trees. Both stunt the growth rate of trees and make it difficult for them to thrive/survive.

This year we started planting in 7 small plots of land with rich soils. We want to see if we can create productive edible food forests in a short period of time (less than 10 years).

These plots will have the before and after photos that you are hoping for.

The input from members of this forum, has helped and is appreciated.

Kostas

Checking on the young trees....

This is an evergreen oak, from a 500+ year old oak tree....

Was curious to see the action under the soil surface...

Very impressed, strong root system.

I hope they do well

Kostas

Oak Trees

An interesting article in NYTimes, by Margaret Roach, “Why You Should Plant Oaks"

Nytimes article on Oak Trees

“Oaks support more life-forms than any other North American tree genus, providing food, protection or both for birds to bears, as well as countless insects and spiders, among the enormous diversity of species"

“An oak can produce three million acorns in its lifetime — tons of protein, fat and carbohydrates — and a mature tree can drop as many as 700,000 leaves every year. The resulting litter is habitat for beneficial organisms, and the tree’s canopy and root system are important in water infiltration, helping rain percolate instead of running off, and purifying it in the process. Oak trees also sequester carbon"

Very very impressive !!!

Kostas

Update Acorn plant deep in the soil

Hello everyone,

I experimented with planting the acorns this year at a depth greater than usual.

Seeds like almonds apricots and accorns are planted at a depth of 2 to 3 cm (1 inch or so) below the top of the soil.

This year, as mentioned previously, we are planting in a few areas that have rich/soft soils. I planted the acorns at a depth of 7 to 10 cm and lightly patted the soil on top...its important not to compact the soil.

So far i have seen few of the oak trees sprouting, so I investigated...dug in the soil to see underground..

It looks like the trees are about to emerge...see photo 1.

Time will tell, but my thinking is that these young trees will have a better chance of survival, because they will be better protected from the high temperatures and lack of rains that will come.

The second picture shows an acorn that did not sprout ...it was rotted...even though the acorns were tested using a water bucket, some that dropped to the bottom were not viable.

If anyone has experience/thoughts about the proper planting depth of acorns and othe seeds, please share.

Kostas

Something eat/destroyed a perfectly good young oak tree...

Not heat or drought...must have been a pest/creature of some kind.

All part of the process.

Kostas

Companion trees/shrubs

I have been wondering-is there a tree or a shrub, that can be planted next to an olive tree, that can provide some or all of the following benefits.

* Fix nitrogen-eliminate need for some of the fertilizers
* Have deep strong roots to help penetrate/open up the subsoil and bring up moisture and nutrients-eliminate need for watering
* Act as a pest repellant

I have planted Laburnum anagyroides next to a few olive trees and in the next few years I will monitor their growth and production. See photos 1 and 1a above. Laburnum fixes nitrogen and its leaves have a bad smell-their beans are poisonous and not edible.

By accident, a Koerleuteria paniculata (golden rain tree) has been growing near a mulberry tree-see photo 2. This tree is almost twice as big as the other mulberry trees on our farm. The golden rain tree loves it here -it grows every where. Its seeds need to scarification or help-they sprout all over the place. i transplanted some of them under the other mulberry trees-see photo 2a. We will monitor and report on the results.

There could be others factors that contributed to the fast growth of that mulberry tree.

I wish the fine research centers/universities around the world would pay some attention to this.

For every fruit or nut tree the maybe a companion tree that will help in many ways- this will ve different from region to region.

Kostas

There is an area I call "olive forest" next to my house. It is likely a conventional olive grove that was abandoned 20 or perhaps 30 years ago, and since has become a forest - grassland mosaic through the processes of nucleation (birds dropping seeds as they are perched on the olive trees) and grassland improvement through ants' behavior.  

The most abundant trees and shrubs underneath olive trees are mastic (pistacia lentiscus) and phillyrea latifolia. I'm sure they help with nutrient recycling and water retention as they drop leaves and they have deep roots. They also have a symbiotic relationship with Arbuscular Mycorrhizal fungi which brings nutrients to trees from further away. In general they create a more forest-like microenvironment underneath the olive tree, which I believe contributes to the health and production of the olive tree more than any exotic nitrogen fixing tree or shrub.

I would plant only a few nitrogen fixing trees or shrubs - if any, evenly distributed, in an olive grove and instead focus on sowing leguminous plants on the treeless parts of the grove alongside a great variety of other herbaceous species. The olive trees will reach to them easily through the fungi.

As with pest repellence, I can only say that I've never seen any pests on the trees in the last 10 years. Perhaps has to do with the mastic and the cistus and thyme growing between the trees.

Konstantinos Karoubas wrote:Something eat/destroyed a perfectly good young oak tree...

Not heat or drought...must have been a pest/creature of some kind.

All part of the process.

Kostas

No stem left?  Here in the US, rabbits will eat the stem off the seedlings if there's no other browse around.

Hello JD,
Good guess.
I just hope they leave the rest alone. That particular area was tottaly wiped out last year by a burst of high temps in early spring and the year before by wild pigs; they just plowed the whole area. This year things are going well. The investment in time and money is so small that eventually, with perseverance, I will succeed and create a mini food forrest there. I should do a small vid on this piece of land.

Good points Güneş. Pistacia lentiscus is also a good candidate for exploration. You mentioned that the olive trees do not get any pests, which is fantastic; are they productive. Do you think they produce enough olives?

Being “lazy”, I like the idea of perennial trees/shrubs helping out, then once a year, cutting them near ground level, and using the wood and leaves as mulch.

Most of the olive trees I planted on our farm are store bought, and are unfortunately from cuttings. As we discussed here before these trees are weak compared to wild seed grown olive trees that have been grafted.

It's fortunate that you have an olive forest near your house to enjoy and observe nature at its best.
Imagine how different things would be, if that land was actively cultivated by a chemical/industrial farmer. Plowing and dust, chemical spraying 4 to 10 times a year, smoke from burning the pruning material, water runoff with the chemical fertilizers etc.

A nightmare, that plays out across the industrialized world, wether its olive trees, grapes, apple, orange, and all kinds of monoculture trees.

We have a small piece of land in southern Greece with olive trees. The trees were planted about 70 years ago, except for 2 that are over 300 years old (a wild guess). The trees at the western end of the land are three times as big as the trees on the eastern end (let's say much bigger).

The smaller trees have not changed in size in the last 50 years. I would like to see if I can help them develop naturally and double in size and production in the next few years (with minimum effort, of course).

It will be interesting.

Kostas

They are quite productive. They flower a lot and most of them turn into fruit.

I don't think pistacia lentiscus would need much pruning, but you could cut twigs for firewood etc. if the shrubs get too large and obstruct farmwork. I would also expect other trees and shrubs to emege from the pistacia over time as the shrub provides a suitable microenvironment inside.

Do you have a forest near your olive grove? If not, you may want to add some fresh forest soil when you are planting trees and shrubs, so that the beneficial microorganisms can stay alive and work your soil. Though you probably don't need such a thing unless you are in the middle of an industrial agriculture area with no forest in sight.

Growing a few fig trees in the olive orchard is said to help with the management of the olive fruit fly, and is common practice in Western Anatolia. I think it is important that the fig trees are the sweet fruiting type but I'm not sure at all.

Basically, the earlier ripening figs attract the emerging fruit flies and keep them away from the olive trees.

Konstantinos Karoubas wrote:I have been wondering-is there a tree or a shrub, that can be planted next to an olive tree, that can provide some or all of the following benefits.

* Fix nitrogen-eliminate need for some of the fertilizers
* Have deep strong roots to help penetrate/open up the subsoil and bring up moisture and nutrients-eliminate need for watering
* Act as a pest repellant

I have planted Laburnum anagyroides next to a few olive trees and in the next few years I will monitor their growth and production. See photos 1 and 1a above. Laburnum fixes nitrogen and its leaves have a bad smell-their beans are poisonous and not edible.

By accident, a Koerleuteria paniculata (golden rain tree) has been growing near a mulberry tree-see photo 2. This tree is almost twice as big as the other mulberry trees on our farm. The golden rain tree loves it here -it grows every where. Its seeds need to scarification or help-they sprout all over the place. i transplanted some of them under the other mulberry trees-see photo 2a. We will monitor and report on the results.

There could be others factors that contributed to the fast growth of that mulberry tree.

I wish the fine research centers/universities around the world would pay some attention to this.

For every fruit or nut tree the maybe a companion tree that will help in many ways- this will ve different from region to region.

Kostas

This is very interesting about the companion trees. I just bought land in Central Texas and have learned a thing or two about our Madrone trees here (they have edible berries). They’re super hard to grow and keep alive because they seem to need to grow in the shadow of the Ashe Juniper tree. Unfortunately, these junipers are not favorable in our region as they have taken over, so many times the junipers will be thinned. This causes the Madrone tree to get weak and die.

I’m hoping to find a way to thin the cedar and yet maintain the good health of these endangered madrone trees, but I am also nervous of harming them as I turn our land into food forest... we’ll see.

Thank you for your information on olives. We wanted to get olives out on our land but were not sure if they could survive without us being there to water. Now I know I should get some seed and go that route. My husband was wanting to try buying a few trees but I didn’t want to spend the money and have them die from lack of attention!

Rebecca Blake wrote:

This is very interesting about the companion trees. I just bought land in Central Texas and have learned a thing or two about our Madrone trees here (they have edible berries). They’re super hard to grow and keep alive because they seem to need to grow in the shadow of the Ashe Juniper tree. Unfortunately, these junipers are not favorable in our region as they have taken over, so many times the junipers will be thinned. This causes the Madrone tree to get weak and die.

I’m hoping to find a way to thin the cedar and yet maintain the good health of these endangered madrone trees, but I am also nervous of harming them as I turn our land into food forest... we’ll see.

Thank you for your information on olives. We wanted to get olives out on our land but were not sure if they could survive without us being there to water. Now I know I should get some seed and go that route. My husband was wanting to try buying a few trees but I didn’t want to spend the money and have them die from lack of attention!

I don't know about trees much, but we have a madrone tree growing in the shadows of a giant oak. It's also on/by a runoff pond that isn't wet year round.

Some oak, hazelnut and possibly Caragana seedlings that I gathered from the wild, and planted on a swale berm. Also something else that looks like a lilac.

Forgot to mention Russian Olive, and a bunch of miscellaneous herbaceous perennials, like coltsfoot and giant knotweed.

* Fix nitrogen-eliminate need for some of the fertilizers
* Have deep strong roots to help penetrate/open up the subsoil and bring up moisture and nutrients-eliminate need for watering
* Act as a pest repellant

What about retama sphaerocarpa? I don't know if it is pest repellant, but it is medicinal.

S Ydok wrote: I don't know about trees much, but we have a madrone tree growing in the shadows of a giant oak. It's also on/by a runoff pond that isn't wet year round.

That is very good to know, Ydok, thank you! I always wondered if it was juniper specific or just had to do with the shade.

I’ll keep that in mind as I manage my acreage.

Good points !!!

For every tree, for every location, we may have different companion trees; and maybe more than one.

But the objectives remain the same...get rid of fertlizers and chemical pest controls improve production and the quality of life for the farmers and consumers.

Simple observations, common sense and trial and error will be needed; not easy but doable.

Kostas

Abraham Palma wrote:

What about retama sphaerocarpa? I don't know if it is pest repellant, but it is medicinal.

Retama sphaerocarpa seems not to be native to Eastern Mediterranean (including Greece), but there definitely are native nitrogen fixing shrubs here as well, such as calicotome villosa and genista acanthoclada.

Calicotome villosa has shown to have a higher nitrogen fixation rate in the rainy season. source