montana community seeking 20 people who are gardeners or want to be gardeners

No pot, drugs or smoking.

In the last month I have visited with a lot of people that want more.  I may be just "projecting" but I think what they want is to be part of what we are doing.  


I visited serveral communities and heard two distinct stories.  And I think all of the people there would love their lives more if they were here.

Group 1:  the founder-ish gardener

Group 2:  the gardeners that joined the community because they are avid gardeners, but don't do any (or very little) gardening


I get the impression that the group 1 people are kinda heartbroken.  Almost all of the gardening they do is a solo effort.  They want to do gardening with others. They want to harvest with others.  They want to preserve the harvest with others.  They want to transform the harvest into meals and eat those meals with others.  But the others are always busy, tired or not in the mood.  The others work and play off site.  And when they are home, they have other things they would like to do.  So the group 1 people do this stuff alone.  The others shop at grocery stores and eat at restaurants.  Shopping at grocery stores and eating at restaurants is fine, but the group 1 folks thought they were gonna live in a community of gardeners.  

Heartbreak.

I get the impression that the group 2 people are kinda heartbroken.  They wanna do that gardening stuff, but they have to earn money to pay rent, pay for the car, pay for insurance, pay for food, phones, restaurants, etc.  After all the work and other stuff, they just don't feel like it.  Plus the group 1 people have sooooo much more experience.  The group 2 people would be embarrassed if the group 1 people found out how little they really know.  They are kinda getting into a weird, dark funk about it all.  They thought that gardening is the core of who they really are, but when it comes right down to it, they are not gardening.  They are finding cheap excuses to not garden.  If they are not a gardener, who are they?  Time for mountains of introspection and meditation.

Heartbreak.


If the Group 1 people came here, I think they would be in love with our community.  Gardening with people.  Harvesting with people.  Preserving the harvest with people.  Eating meals with people.


If the Group 2 people came here, I think they would also be in love with our community.  Their days would be filled with gardening, harvesting, preserving the harvest and eating from the garden.  Months or years of really doing it.  No need for a job, car, rent, restaurants or any of that stuff.  



Group 3:  I met people that were working hard to save up money to buy a homestead, or to buy into community.  It sounds like they have $40k saved up so far.  They have very little experience, but once they have enough saved, they can make the leap and learn as they go.  They would like to have a solid $200k saved up to buy-in and then cover their expenses for a couple of years as they get up to speed and then get some homestead based income models going.

Group 4:  I met people that saved, bought-in, are struggling and about to bail.  It is harder than they thought and they are almost out of coin.


If the Group 3 people came here, I think they would be in love with our community.  They can come now!  They don't have to toil away at some worky-job for several more years.  After six months of doing it, they can choose if they want to buy into an acre here, or continue with how they started.  And they get hands on experience with a group rather than trying to do it on their own.

If the Group 4 people came here, I think they would also be in love with our community.  All that they wanted without the contant expense after expense after expense.  And the food is already here. A lot of the infrastructure already exists.  Far less lonely and it is all easier with a group.  The cost is zero.  The stress of forcing things to work is erased.



Come by for a visit and get the lay of the land by renting a cabin for a bit.  Participate in the bootcamp as much or as little as you like.

https://wheaton-labs.com/cabins/



Come join the bootcamp and dig in.  One week minimum, but stay as long as you like

https://wheaton-labs.com/bootcamp/




see our ic.org listing https://www.ic.org/directory/wheaton-labs

I like your synopsis, Paul! And I’ve been enjoying learning more about Wheaton Labs.

I’m Cata and our Clear Sky Retreat Center in southeastern British Columbia features conscious community, a 1-acre cold climate food forest, green buildings, and ecological restoration. Our solo meditation cabins are exquisite.

We figure all of this goodness is a natural expression of a healthy spiritual life, dedicated to the welfare of all beings. We call Clear Sky a “living lab” where we experiment with consciousness.

We love our daily community meditation practice.  It gives us the inner resources to help everything else work well / kick a*s in a good way.

Looking forward to meeting you in Sandpoint this afternoon.

Cata
clearskycenter.org

Well, I must say that I fall squarely in group 2 and semi-heartbroken. I do dabble in gardening, but don’t get the time I would like to actually dig deep up to my elbows. At the moment it’s maybe the second joint of my fingers. Sooooo much to learn. I am not in a position to be a boot this year (Life has a way of creating circumstances beyond our control), but have had it in the back of my head since I did the PDJ back in 2021. I finally have a small yard and need to configure for food growth vs decorative landscape. I figure, start small - so I planted raspberries and blackberries two years ago, this year they went gangbusters. Planted an apple tree and a cherry tree before winter came last year, and our apple tree has 5 apples hanging on for dear life. HA! - Getting my fingers dirty (as opposed to my feet wet!), a little at a time. So the heartbreak isn’t complete, but I keep pining. When my daughter graduates high school next summer, I will plan on taking time to come out to try my hand as a boot. :)

It was so nice seeing you yesterday in Sandpoint and meeting other permies.

Cata and Angela, thanks for coming to the sandpoint potluck!  It feels good to see so much interest!

Angela,

I think you have described another group

Group 5:  the empty nester

You have to stick to your current life.  Meet the obligations of your past self.  Go to work, pay the mortgage, take the kids to soccer practice ....     And dabble with a little gardening on a little urban lot with neighbors that are too close, and regulations about everything ...  

And then you have an empty nest.  

The house is way too big, and the gardening options are way too small.  And every day is brutally lonely.  

Heartbreak.


If the Group 5 people came here, I think they would also be in love with our community.  Their days would be filled with gardening, harvesting, preserving the harvest and eating from the garden.  Months or years of really doing it.  Without the size limitations or regulations.  With others that are also grooving on it. A life about building good things rather than a life of mortgages, bills, jobs, and constantly cleaning the dust bunnies from a huge house.

Paul, you are correct! Soon to be empty nester brings its own heartbreak, but opens up the road for so much possibility. I happily move to group 5!

Mony is this world getting harder and harder to earn, while other people getting so much that
she loose there drive to live, no challences anymore.

We need to change that if we want to get better world and more prosperity.

It was nice to see you & all the other Permies who could make it from my area during your potluck visit, Paul. Thanks again to all who made that possible! I am hoping to see about connecting with a few of those who were present, still, as I really want some more like minded community in my life... though I am busy with the frantic fall transitions, as many are I suppose.
Regardless, it helped to remind me of my appreciation for this forum. My life has taken many unexpected turns and pulled me away from much of the things I wanted to be doing (aside from some rather sporadic dabblings crammed into the daily hustle here and there; I liked what you had to say above about meeting the obligations of your past self, as that is about where I am, too), but I am grateful that a tiny bit more space is opening back up in my life as my kids get older, and that this knowledge-sharing community is still here waiting. And the SKIP program even seems like a really great way to lay out and further incentivise those pursuits! I also think I'd really like to find my way to Wheaton Labs at some point. It's felt like a bit of a distant pipe dream for a while now... but not for too long, I guess, in the grand scheme of things. It may still take a year or so and some figuring with logistics, but I think it might be on the near(er) horizon for me.

Thank you for posting,
Ai some how found you for me. i've been traveling outside the states for over a year, and getting the feeling that there's no place like home.. but i ain't got a home to go home to...

digging through your page ticks many boxes for me. i'm keeping this in mind for when i decide to return.

cheers
eddie

I am in camp one but live in Crystal, MN.  I do gardening but I am all alone.

Mark Scofield

Any spots for the bootcamp opening in November?

I just exited my corporate desk/computer job.  Over the last couple years I've been thinking of ways to have a more meaningful impactful life and actively do good for the world and people around me.  

I was drawn to permaculture / gardening videos by people like Jeff Lawton and others randomly online.
I'm reading Gaia's Garden right now.

The permaculture concepts appeal to me because:

1.  Humans were created or evolved to be working with our bodies actively.  It's good for us physically and mentally.  
2.  I need to do something that has meaning and purpose.  I would speculate others do too and maybe they don't know it.  Maybe they just feel like something is "missing".
3.  I'm into eating good food.  The first step to making a good dish is getting good ingredients.  I've only had food fresh from other people's garden a handful of times and it was amazing.
4.  Limit harmful chemicals.  I try to buy as good of food as I can in my city but it's covered in plastic... I wonder where all these microplastics are coming from.
5.  Simplifying and reducing consumption and "things/stuff" frees you mentally and financially.  If you are free from debtors and paying for un-needed "stuff" you are free to do what you want.
6.  I like learning and teaching others.  I don't know that much now as I'm only just beginning but from what I'm seeing there is so much to learn in this culture which is amazing.
7.  Community.  I thought about getting land somewhere but then you're out there somewhere by yourself which sounds lonely to me.  

Anyway, those are my thoughts.  I've been thinking about this stuff for a couple years now and it's been good to see other people here on these forums and some of the podcasts of people that have similar ideas.

Have a good one!!

John Halman wrote:Any spots for the bootcamp opening in November?

New Boots are welcome on Sunday, 2nd November.

Stephen B. Thomas wrote:

John Halman wrote:Any spots for the bootcamp opening in November?

New Boots are welcome on Sunday, 2nd November. :-D

To pull this off, you need to sign up for the bootcamp, fill out the questionnaire and then there are a few other small details to work out.

Thanks Paul & Stephen.  

I'm going to be on a trip and probably won't be able to make the 2nd of November if that's an exact requirement.

I can also do the SEPPers thing basically rent a cabin to do Boot stuff if that's better.  I'm thinking around Nov 7th my trip should be well done and I'll be available.  

John Halman wrote:Thanks Paul & Stephen.  

I'm going to be on a trip and probably won't be able to make the 2nd of November if that's an exact requirement.

I can also do the SEPPers thing basically rent a cabin to do Boot stuff if that's better.  I'm thinking around Nov 7th my trip should be well done and I'll be available.  

Hello John!  


You can be a Sepper!   Here is the link to our beautiful cabins!
https://permies.com/wiki/sepper

Let us know what day you will arrive and we will get you all set up.

I look forward to meeting you!
Thanks!

We do some gardening on solid rock



It is november.  We have a stew in a crock pot right now featuring kale, onions and sunchokes we harvested from the garden two days ago.

Hi there Paul, I'm Raj from the UK, i'm looking to come to the USA in 2026 and looking for a community to learn skills like gardening, permaculture etc and i came across your post. I wanted to know a little bit about your offgrid community, is it listed as a non profit organisation? do you take on people from over sea's to learn, does the boot camp learning cost? If i was to come I'd like to learn for the longest period possible. I look forwards to your reply.

We have hosted UK folks about a dozen times in the past. And other countries too.

We are not a non profit.  At the same time, your time spent here will be about growing food for yourself and other boots.  And natural building to benefit you and other boots.  And homesteading projects to benefit you and other boots.  And while you are here you will bask in the glow created by past boots.

K thanks for the reply,  is there an email address to contact you on or do you just uses permies.com?

Rajesh - you might find it useful to check out this thread - permaculture bootcamp - gardening gardeners; grow the food you eat and build your own home and then follow the link to the webpage where you can sign up.

Usually we process questions in the forums.  Once a person has rented a cabin or paid the bootcamp fee, we talk about details via email.

I am at a point in my life where I really need to make the decision to incorporate more permaculture into my life. I have analyzed and analyzed for decadesa and now i hereby declare come hell or high water i will be in missoula at wheaton ecolabs at the beginning of june.  How can i confirm and ensure my presence will be accomodated/welcomed etc? i do remember paying $100 many years ago in order to go up there to live, but I dont thinki i can provide any proof i do see  uptop where you have to pay a bootcamp fee or rent a cabin and then the details will be talked about via email, but what is the bootcamp fee  and or the cabin fee. I just found all the prices on the website, cant wait to get out of phoenix in june, i will probably just stay on a tent pad.

Hey Andrew, your questions regarding the boot program might be answered here:
https://permies.com/wiki/bootcamp

If you have paid the boot camp fee in the past, maybe your name is on some list still.

Andrew,

I found where you parted with $100 in 2017 to join the bootcamp.  

Is the bootcamp what you wanna do now?  Or do you want to rent a cabin (be a sepper)?

I want to be in the bootcamp. Sepper is  for people who want to do their own thing be on vacay or work remotely as far as i can tell.  I want to get my  hands dirty, work hard and LEARN!!! I am debating upon whether or not i should haul my pedicab up there in order to work on my two days offfrom the bootcamp. I am guessing that i would have normie tourist customers during the day being that it would be summer and bar restaurant customers at night. How feasible would it be to get an uber lyft from a storage unit where i would store my pedicab  and get back to my living space aka basecamp?

Andrew Greaves wrote:I want to be in the bootcamp. Sepper is  for people who want to do their own thing be on vacay or work remotely as far as i can tell.  I want to get my  hands dirty, work hard and LEARN!!!

I sent an email to your primary email addy with a link to the questionnaire.

I know what you mean.This what I like to do

I'm a type 1, lonely gardener.  I've been reading posts in this forum for years, and I love what you are doing up there at Wheaton Labs.  If you were in TN or some other temperate climate, I'd have been there years ago, but the older I get, the less I like cold weather, so one of the least likely states for me to relocate to is Montana, beautiful though it is.  Sold my farm in southwest VA because it was too hard to maintain it alone, and I'm seeking a community to join in VA, TN, or possibly KY.  That area seems to be the best climate for me.  Not too cold, not too hot; not too dry or too humid; just about right year round.

I used to be a type 1, but really it was my state of mind. But now I have reached a higher level of tranquility, I think I'm a type zero: quite happy to plod along at my own pace, making the world a better place in my own small way.

Hello you guys! I sent a message to Paul's account rather than on here. It's a fairly detailed message and I'm hoping somone can track it down from last saturday and give me a shout! I very much look forward to hearing back from someone about what you have going on there and how i could potentially fit in!!

Christopher Cobb wrote:Hello you guys! I sent a message to Paul's account rather than on here. It's a fairly detailed message and I'm hoping somone can track it down from last saturday and give me a shout! I very much look forward to hearing back from someone about what you have going on there and how i could potentially fit in!!

Hello Christopher!

Paul forwarded your message to me and I replied to you.  

We would love to have you come out and join the bootcamp!  
Our next few start dates are:
June 7th, July 5th and Aug 2nd.

Would one of those dates work for you!

Thanks!

Christopher Cobb wrote:Hello you guys!

Thanks for following up!  Here is my email to you.

​Hello Christopher!

Paul received your email and asked me to contact you.  

Are you thinking you would like to join our permaculture bootcamp?  

It sounds like you would be a good fit here and you have lots of skills to offer.   We are currently bringing in new folks this spring to hopefully have a full crew this summer.  We have lots of fun projects planned, the gardens are already overflowing with food, we are working on fencing so we can bring in livestock and we will be putting the finishing touches on our existing cabins so we can start to build new ones.  

Here are our next few start dates:
june 7
july 5
aug 2
sep 5
oct 4

Here is the link to sign up to the permaculture bootcamp:
https://wheaton-labs.com/bootcamp/


For more discussion about the bootcamp:

https://permies.com/t/bootcamp

Please let me know if you have questions or if there is anything I can do to help.
I look forward to meeting you!

Thank you,
Samantha