Do you NEED a driver's licence?

Is holding a valid driver's license a necessity, even if you never plan to own a car?

I vote YES.

Here's why:
- Massive amounts of good, free resources are available -- if you can get to them. Can you borrow a friend's truck to pick up a great furniture find, free compost, a ton of apples, a free wheelbarrow, any of that?
- Homesteading requires cash flow. A driver's licence is an absolute requirement for tons of excellent employment opportunities, including the trades, where operating company vehicles is part of the job.
- A driver's licence is a generally accepted form of ID. (And in addition, a valid credit card -- but that's another conversation.) Even if you're mostly off-grid, you will need to interact with all sorts of "grid people" on a regular basis.

So what is your vote? And why?

Well I don't have one, and I'm still here, so I guess not.

I would vote Yes.

I think the flexibility the drivers license provides you in situations is worth the process/cost.

I have been in a few situations where I was not intended to be the driver but I became the driver with friends and family.

I have had situations where I was alone and I needed something or to get somewhere and I only had myself to provide that.

I think this is very location/community based because if there were more local options of public transport or approved alternative transport that is roadworthy I might have a different answer.

I feel having a drivers license is a good thing for folks living here in the US.

I only drive to the mail box.  The likelihood of me ever having to prove I have a drivers licensee is slim to none.

I can`t see a doctor or get medical treatments without proving who I am so if I didn't have a drivers license I would need a ID card.

I understand that nowadays almost everyone asked for them.

In Texas where I live I can`t buy a car if I don't have a drivers license.

In case I decide to take a trip on an airplane it is my understanding that it is a requirement to have a drivers license or some sort or ID.  And this form of ID has to be `REAL` compliant.

When I was younger I went through the phase of "I don't need the government's permission to . . ."  I still basically believe that, but for me it turned out to not be worth the anxiety.  Unfortunately, a universal id (driver's license) is hard to do without in today's world unless you are either going to be a hard core hermit or Amish.  I hate it, but it's just the way things are. In my older age I pick my battles. IMHO

One can drive without a license, but the license is good for avoiding fines, and I supposed eventually, jail time. I provide info from my license each year when I eFile my taxes, but if I were just mailing a form in, I wouldn't need that. I can't think of anyone else who ever needs to see it. I could mostly get by without a license, but I'd be stressed about driving that way, so I can't imagine what the point would be.

ETA: Oh, on the occasion that I fly somewhere and rent a car, I must have a license to do that.

All of my many ID's are long out of date.  I no longer drive, sooooo I don't need one.  Yeah for Judy.  

The Committee For State Security here in the US has not yet made it mandatory that one shall have to carry "papers" at all times.

I was even asked for a ID at the UPS store, to ship some stuff one day.  I refused and provided a false name along with a false address.

I think my new motto may be "I'll never comply"

Just my two cents!

Peace

I let my license expire when I hitched to the Ozarks early seventies.
I drove some, mostly back roads and hayfields for 18 years and then decided to get one again.  Now I've lost too much peripheral vision to drive at all so back to no license the last few years.

Back then I lived with folks who drove and we always grouped together for big town trips and things in whatever vehicle was running at the time.

Now, my guy is an excellent driver and loves it so I'm lucky in that.

Living way back in the woods and driving old clunker trucks was always the big carbon foot print for us.

I think folks can function perfectly well without a license (and limited driving in a community of others who have those abilities to share.

I think there are way too many vehicles around and not enough public transportation

Timothy Norton wrote:I think this is very location/community based because if there were more local options of public transport or approved alternative transport that is roadworthy I might have a different answer.

Good point. I agree.

If you fly about, some form of identification is required. If not a driver's license one of the card forms of a passport.
 Just to point out how silly obtaining a secure Patriot Act driver's license for the wife was. In Oregon you have to supply a State issued birth certificate. The wife changed her catholic given name from Mary to Molly in her early twenties. PA wouldn't give her a copy since she had changed her name. However, PA said that I could request her birth certificate. So even though I married Molly not Mary I was allowed to obtain my wife's birth certificate, and they didn't know me from Adam. I feel safer knowing how the system works.

All you lucky bastards.  I don't get the privelidge of having a drivers license because I was born with visual impairment and, barring a miracle, will die as such.  So it means I must live in areas with good public transit, no wilderness living for me.

Regarding ID, there are other ways to do that without a drivers license, I've had state ID since I was 14, so I had ID before all the sighties got their licenses, woot woot!

I do however need to go get that REAL ID thingy at some point, because I like being able to fly places from time to time.

It's really interesting how most of the answers so far are focusing on ID and compliance, not so much the actual skill of driving.

I don't own a car and don't plan to but I have driven in Europe, the USA and Africa and there is definitely a correlation between driving skill and the difficulty of passing the test.
Sorry USA but although you drive a LOT, you're not very good at it.



To answer the question, need? No. Want? Yes.

I just did a whistle stop tour of Wales with and American and an Englander. I did most of the 'technical' country driving (roads that left the American quivering) and left the city stuff to the Englander.
I occasionally borrow Dad's car to move stuff and when I move out of the area, I plan to hire when I need to move stuff.

I've recently been travelling up and down the UK and for that I took the coach. It's cheaper than the fuel for the car, more efficient than the train and I get to sleep through it. It is however, slow.


If the government decided to introduce mandatory retesting (which I support), I would keep renewing it.

James, I can't help wondering where the American was from. I know most city & suburban drivers that come to our area are generally terrified of our hilly/sharp-curvy roads, and we hate getting stuck behind them, when we're needing to go the speed limit. But, please don't lump all Americans together, in driving skills, lol - I promise our drivers are as varied as anywhere else in the world.

Brit and European roads are incredibly narrow and tight. Not for the faint of heart. I think we North Americans would feel like we're jammed in between high speed elevators going up and going down with no walls.

Hi Carla, sorry you're right. My experience of driving in the US was on a moped on Oahu and a road trip from Vegas up the coast road to Seattle. I wasn't impressed with how much people would veer around in their lanes

My friend is from Virginia ( I don't know more specifically) who has spent her adult life mostly in cities. She works in a medical lab and taught under and postgrad (much cleverer than me).

The roads I'm talking of are single lane, around 8.5-9 foot wide, hedges or dry stone walls either side. But I'm also not thrilled when people can't reverse in a straight line bouncing on the rev limiter. If I can't hear the gearbox whine, you're not reversing fast enough!

But more seriously, the number of times in the US and Australia I saw near misses that could have been avoided with proper observations was unsettling.


Also, I have to declare a conflict of interest. I'm a member of FuckCars on Reddit. I'm very firmly in the camp that cars should not be used in cities and that there are better alternatives for about half the journeys in towns and villages IF the infrastructure is well designed.

The US was built on the railroads, what happened?

I guess I didn't really vote.  Living in a rural area my vote is yes. Affordable shopping isn't in my little town, so shopping is done 30 miles out. If I did live in the bigger town, public transit is available and though my shopping habits would have to change to smaller man portable size trips or loading up the e-bike I could adapt. I do have to throw this out there, does having a drivers license mean you can drive? After my trip to town yesterday, and what I observed, I don't think you do.

Fair enough, James! Lol! I was thinking where you learn to drive & where you drive most has an incredible impact on how you drive, and some areas require different skills than others. I think the test to get the license barely scratches the surface of what a driver needs to know. The license itself, nope. I learned to drive in my dad's ancient, Ford, '3 on the tree' pick-up, with no 'power' anything. Steering was not fun. I learned first, on our land (@14yrs old) then on back country roads in MI. When I was 16, I moved to IL, where I essentially had to learn all over again, before I could get my license, because city driving requires completely different skills, from MI rural driving. Then, as an adult, living in rural KY, both my city and rural driving came into play, but the rural driving had to be tweaked, to account for narrow roads, with rock walls on one side, and drop-offs, on the other, going around hairpin turns on hills and mountains.

An icy winter in rural KY is a VERY different drive than a snowy winter in MI, and every city seems to have a different driving culture. I've driven St Louis, Chicago, Atlanta, and all over almost half of the USA, and imo, Chicago is easy, compared to Atlanta. Rural driving changes drastically across the country, depending on the terrain & how the land is used - all make a difference in the skills needed, to safely get from point A to point B.

I had my learner licence for about 8 months and did all of the family driving including holidays, about 5000 miles.

We have lots of lanes locally and 3 cities 30 mins away on the motorway, so quite a high level of diversity.

Our winters are a bit sporadic for snow, so Dad insisted that my brother and I spent some time on a skid pan to learn how to control the car with little to no grip. The Scandinavians have it as part of their training and I think it should be standard.

I also did my full motorbike licence which is theory, traffic free practical test and traffic test.

I read this thread as a "get out of my bubble" exercise because at one point in my life, I would have said I can't imagine not having a driver's license.

However, due to a retinal condition, I may not always have mine. As it is, I avoid night driving as much as possible.

I have driven in many areas in the US and in various rural, suburban and city environments including several memorable forays through NYC.

For me, having a driver's license has always equally freedom. I get that from my mom who passed last month.
She had had dementia for 2 years and was so unhappy. She went from being on her own to not in a matter of weeks.
She never did get okay with not being able to drive!

I'm tall enough, and now just wide enough, to make flying miserable so I prefer driving and I have oftened lived
miles and miles from family. And in my preferred state, I live away from shopping. We are more and more self
sufficient but we like our little treats. I can be hermit like for 90% of the time. LOL

Texas was the hardest state to get a license - had to prove I was born, that I got married, that I got divorced, that my husband died,
that I changed my name back to maiden, and it took fully three trips to have all the necessary documents. This after a life in which
I had already had licenses in 7 other states and thought myself highly competent in re-documenting myself in the US.

I suspect it will be fairly simply getting my Georgia license and I will be more rural than in the whole rest of my life.
But I will get my license as long as I can see well enough. When I can't, I will give it up unhappily but willingly.

If not a license ….then what?   I live approximately 3 miles from town.  I have no serious health issues. But, the last time I checked, the average age to stop driving is 75. I am very close to that mark.  I find myself wondering what my options are if I cease to drive. I know I have mentioned this in another thread, but its seems appropriate in this one.  I have worked out with my doctors computer visits.  Although I don’t see myself as a Prepper, our shopping habits leave us in a position where we could avoid going town for a year or more.   So, I am not seeing a need for a license…even though it is highly desirable.

Dad has just retired and is loving his free buss pass…

John F Dean wrote: But, the last time I checked, the average age to stop driving is 75.

Hm! Around here it's up to your physician and periodic  testing for vision and mental acuity. My mom is still driving locally at 86.

I’m hoping dad will transition to the mobility scooter when the time comes to stop driving, the same as grandad did.

If transportation of commercial goods or people I believe licenses a required probability. But when in transportation of one’s self for example going to your barber license should not be required or to and from family or associates

Here, your insurance rates are often tied to how long you have a drivers license.  Especially, but not exclusively, car insurance.  So I got one as young as possible, renewed it every few years, then didn't drive for nearly 20 years except to take friends and family to and from hospital for surgery.  

A lot of things we cannot rent without a drivers license like a rototiller.  Not just government id, but a high security govt id which locally, is only active military ID, passport, or drivers license.  

Charles McKahan wrote:If transportation of commercial goods or people I believe licenses a required probability. But when in transportation of one’s self for example going to your barber license should not be required or to and from family or associates

My understanding that a license is legally required just about everywhere in the developed world. Whether it should or should not be required is a conversation to have with your political representatives. If it's in a genuine emergency the authorities will probably cut you some slack.

Insurance companies will cut no slack. Around here you can't get vehicle registration without insurance, and insurance requires licensed drivers or they will deny coverage. In a bad collision you could risk losing everything you own, and a great deal of your earnings in the future. It is not worth taking the chance.

It may seem like a mundane activity, but driving is by far the most dangerous activity most of us do. For all the tree felling, heavy equipment operating, and solo wilderness backpacking I have done, all of my near-death experiences have been on the highway.

Douglas,  referring to an earlier post of yours, that is the “tyranny of averages”.  Age wise, there is far more room before 75 than there is after.  So, it takes two people who stop driving at 95 to offset the person who stops at 35.  Of course, there are fewer people alive who are older than 75 vs younger, so  that offset is even more difficult to achieve.

John F Dean wrote:Douglas,  referring to an earlier post of yours, that is the “tyranny of averages”.  Age wise, there is far more room before 75 than there is after.  So, it takes two people who stop driving at 95 to offset the person who stops at 35.  Of course, there are fewer people alive who are older than 75 vs younger, so  that offset is even more difficult to achieve.

Ah! Okay, thanks, I misunderstood. My study of statistics was a long time ago. Mostly I recall that it gave me a bit of a headache.