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Mints and other mints

 
Syd Smith
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Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania (Zone 7a)
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Mints clearly have a lot of benefits. They taste good, they may repel some pests and attract some friends, and they can be a good mid-high ground cover. But they also do earn their reputation for spreading uncontrollably in many settings!

How well do you find that mints fit into a permaculture forest garden, perhaps under fruit trees, without becoming too much of a nuisance? Thoughts on best placements, where they tend to be both useful and manageable? Favorite varieties? (I'm aware that it's best to mostly keep to one variety within a planted area, since unplanned hybrids don't always taste so good.) I'm also very mindful of the long-term goal of minimal maintenance!
 
M Ljin
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I haven’t found mint to be bothersome in a permaculture jungle garden setting. They grow as a ground cover, and I love eating them as greens raw or cooked.

I grow a wild species, water mint, which I love. On land, they are milder tasting than by the water. There are three species of mint nearby—corn mint, water mint, and apple mint. Apple mint is the highly invasive kind that grows four or five feet tall and makes a monoculture. The leaves are very hairy, but good in tea. The other two are well behaved. Corn mint has some incredible, rich, diverse flavors too. They are all quite variable based on conditions. The strongest tasting one I know was some water mint growing in an old beaver marsh.
 
Anne Miller
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Growing up, my mother always had mints growing by the outside water faucet.

I was surprised when folks talked about it being a problem and spreading so I assume this has to do with which variety folks grow.

I grew lemon balm in a pot without any problem.
 
Nancy Reading
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I have several varieties planted and like M Ljin, wild water mint. Mine only grows in the damper areas though, although maybe the patch is still spreading.... I love apple mint for mint sauce and mine is left to grow wild. Mints will spread wherever they are happy, so I guess the trick is to limit the are they are happy in - drier, wetter, shadier, sunnier...
I'd love to grow Moroccan mint (good for teas), but that seems to have died - I think it wants it sunnier. I'm thinking of underplanting some of my raspberries with peppermint for tea instead, as it has a similar growth habit to nettles which have colonised one of my raspberry patches, and is less likely to sting me when harvesting the berries!
 
M Ljin
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Oh, I forgot! Mountain mint! They are delicious in teas, very strong taste. A little tough for fresh eating but they aren’t excessively enthusiastic either, and appreciate drier soils.
 
Oliver Huynh
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Hello,
Wherevever I want mint, I have to dig a pond and plant it inside ; it is just too dry for it to spread around here.
In the veggie garden, two related species are growing wild, lemon balm and black horehound ; both are medicinal and loved by bees, though black horehound is rather unpleasant at first contact.
I let them spread along the midline of my growing alleys, which are 'perennial lines' including patience dock, fennel, fruit and redbud trees.
They make the garden even more soothing.

Have a nice evening,
Oliver
 
Syd Smith
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Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania (Zone 7a)
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M Ljin wrote:I haven’t found mint to be bothersome in a permaculture jungle garden setting. They grow as a ground cover, and I love eating them as greens raw or cooked.

I grow a wild species, water mint, which I love. On land, they are milder tasting than by the water. There are three species of mint nearby—corn mint, water mint, and apple mint. Apple mint is the highly invasive kind that grows four or five feet tall and makes a monoculture. The leaves are very hairy, but good in tea. The other two are well behaved. Corn mint has some incredible, rich, diverse flavors too. They are all quite variable based on conditions. The strongest tasting one I know was some water mint growing in an old beaver marsh.



I've never even heard of corn mint! Are you in Europe?
 
Syd Smith
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Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania (Zone 7a)
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M Ljin wrote:Oh, I forgot! Mountain mint! They are delicious in teas, very strong taste. A little tough for fresh eating but they aren’t excessively enthusiastic either, and appreciate drier soils.



I've started researching these! It sounds like narrow-leaved mountain mint is especially tasty, but yeah, pretty leathery in texture, and Virginia mountain mint tastes a bit more savory but isn't quite as tough to chew.
 
Mark Land
Posts: 16
Location: Bavarian Alps / Northern Alps / Europe - equal to zone 7a
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Ah mint, you gotta love it.
Especially mountain mint, or as it is known here in my parts as swiss mint. Then there is the alpine mint which is much smaller in growth but also tasty. Mojito mint and so many others.

But to answer your question. Even in a perma culture system setting, i find it sometimes usefull to put the dominant types in some containment. Well in between everything else, so that friend and foe of the plant and its surrounding are in a good balance (or at lesat have the chance for it) .
But I can avoid loosing entire patches of earth to one spreading plant type - like mint.

However with mint it really depends on the climate. We are, here in the european alps, in the situation that we get loads of rainfall and thunderstorms, with high temperatures - so that mint stuff is easily spreading like crazy. I guess this is not so much the case with hotter or more arid climates. To give you an idea how I do it :

1000113329.jpg
Swiss Mint
Swiss Mint
 
M Ljin
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I’m in New England so not in Europe. My mountain mint is the broad-leafed sort—less tough but still better as tea. Pycnanthemum muticum I think? I got them as a cutting from a native edible planting.

Corn mint, wild mint, Mentha arvensis, Mentha canadensis—I’m treating them casually as one though they are different (but closely related). They are sometimes considered the same species. I have had some amazing and unusual flavored mint of that kind show up!
 
Joao Winckler
pollinator
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I grow chocolate mint under my apple trees and it works brilliantly as ground cover without being too aggressive. The shade keeps it from going totally mental, and it smells incredible when you walk through it or mow the edges. The one that really surprised me was Korean mint, technically Agastache not Mentha, but it behaves similarly and the bees absolutely lose their minds over it. Stays put better than most true mints too.
 
Jay Angler
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I've heard of Chocolate Mint but haven't gone hunting locally for it. Some day...

I love my Apple Mint dried for tea in the winter, but it is in a contained pot.

Marjoram is in the mint family, and it is slowly invading my front lawn, but it's prettier than grass in my opinion. I use it in stews or when making bone broth.

Lemon Balm has naturalized in my ecosystem. It shows up in odd spots, but doesn't seem to take over like the Marjoram.  I like drying it also, and adding a bit to green tea.

 
Chance Lunceford
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I grow lots of mints.

A couple years ago, I purchased a bunch of different varieties of mint (including a breeder's mix) and ran them in a pot under what I call hardship trial conditions (harsh, taking them right up to the line of survival over and over again).

The ones that survived are now planted in my yarden, and they spread vigorously, even here in my high desert Utah environment.

Bee balm has naturalized and spreads like crazy, but I love it because it's a massive organic matter dump a couple-few times per year and the pollinators love it.

I also specifically planted apple mint, lime mint and chocolate mint in an herbaceous heavy area of the yarden where they'll be forced to behave by the surrounding vigorous competition.

All in all, I'd say, even aggressive mint isn't hard to manage. Chop and drop and make some tea, ya know?

By the by, I wouldn't discourage mint hybridization. I've never tasted a mint that wasn't at least good enough for a tea, and some of the new crosses will astound you with their complexities of aroma and flavor.
 
Su Ba
pollinator
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Location: Big Island, Hawaii (2300' elevation, 60" avg. annual rainfall, temp range 55-80 degrees F)
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I have spearmint and chocolate mint. In my climate, both can be rather aggressive. But I have them growing in my pastures which I mow every couple months. Truly, I don’t mind them invading the pasture.

I find mint to be a refreshing tea by itself, but I normally add it to regular green or black tea for iced tea. We keep a gallon jug in the frig all the time.

 
Kara Ann
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Location: Mason County, WA USA:Ha; Harstine gravel ashy sandy loam
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I started some Swiss ricola mint (mentha x piperita Swiss) around in a hazelnut guild. Really wonderful smell when in that area of the permaculture plot! Intermixed well with some comfrey, chives, calendula, currants.... so many lovely 'C' plants.

Last summer  when getting ready for an event, I got inspired to try chocolate dipped mint leaves  (Shout out to Whole Fed Homestead - recipe here.  I gathered peppermint, spearmint, applemint, and even some of the ricola mint, melted the chocolate, dipped, cooled and served them all arranged together on a platter for dessert at a dinner party.... they were a big success until someone got a ricola mint leaf - NOT good! I had not taste-tested one of those, and as you can imagine, not even a really good dark chocolate can make up for a strong ricola-cough-drop flavor!  😖

I have some areas that run a little wet for most of the year, and got some watermint seed - happy to hear that some of you are growing it! Anything special I should know about germinating it and getting the plants set out?
 
Hugo Morvan
gardener
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I visited a garden of a lady who had deliberately planted it all through her garden and she said it did a great job of making the top soil loose. It disappeared a bit as the shrubs provided more shade
I manage to keep my mints contained in a few places. It always escapes again, but a few times ripping it out to make tea keeps it in check.
 
Riona Abhainn
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My first patch of mint, in a container back in my patio gardening days, reseeded itself and lasted three years in a 1 ft. radius pot.  Right before I moved out of that apartment I divided it and planted some in the commonyard for the next tenants to enjoy, guerilla style.  And what I kept didn't survive and died in the pot.  I was perplexed but maybe after three years in that pot there wasn't enough nutrients left for it, I didn't have a compost system yet and didn't yet understand how important new input is in containers.

So I started again last year with chocolate mint which my MIL brought me from her yard.  I planted it in the ground and it was happy there, even with my crappy lawn-covered soil.  My goal was for it to spread and take over the yard, but the reality of it was that in spring it showed up in sprigs rather than patches and I knew those wouldn't survive the lawn person who our landlord insists on coming over.  So I moved them into a bigger pot hoping they'll be happy there, so far so good.  In summary chocolate mint at least, doesn't spread as fast as I'd like it to haha.
 
Cara Fletch
Posts: 4
Location: Central Florida. Zone 9b. 52 inches of Rain. Sand. Hot & Humid.
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I enjoy chocolate mint.. and have a pot growing..  in the Florida summer,, that pot moves around a bit until it finds a place it loves..  right now.. some morning sun.    I didn't know Marjoram was a mint..  Its a favorite but will likely be in the kitchen herb bed, when the weather's a bit cooler.
 
Tereza Okava
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Mint masters, help me!
I have a few ancient packets (10+ years old) of several varieties of mint seeds I found in my cabinet.
In the past I tried to sprout them and nothing happened. I thought I had thrown the seeds away but they recently resurfaced. I've grown mint from cuttings but never from seed. Any suggestions about starting mints?
 
Ruth Eden
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Joao Winckler wrote:I grow chocolate mint under my apple trees and it works brilliantly as ground cover without being too aggressive. The shade keeps it from going totally mental, and it smells incredible when you walk through it or mow the edges. The one that really surprised me was Korean mint, technically Agastache not Mentha, but it behaves similarly and the bees absolutely lose their minds over it. Stays put better than most true mints too.



Chocolate mint is my favourite! It struggles in my harsh semi desert dry summers though and I have inadvertently killed off a few by not being vigilant about watering, or expecting it to be harder than it is.

Lemon balm on the other hand seems to have taken hod in all my pot plants all by itself..
 
Gary Crocker
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I wish mint would take over. Here it dies in the heat and wet! Sometimes we can keep a pot of it alive for a while, but it eventually gives up. Lemon balm is my favorite in the family. I also love pineapple sage, not in the family
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