Americans, please don't use 2 letter abbreviations for your state!

greg mosser wrote:... i decided against using my state name at all. i think bioregions are more applicable in permaculture than political boundaries.

You might be right, Greg.
But I think it's difficult to describe in what 'bioregion' I am in such a way everyone here will understand.

Christopher Weeks wrote:I'm curious, do random non-UScians know that our states, by name, are part of the US? If I tell rando international folks that I live in Minnesota is it usually more meaningful than saying I live in MN? (And I now live closer to Canada than I do to any of the other four states where I've previously resided, so it doesn't surprise me that Jay, specifically, knows Minnesota, but I wonder more generally.)

Minnesota is that place across from Thunder Bay which also likes Hockey and has lakes and fishing. I think it has a lot of state forests?  I've generally heard about it in media. I'd say I can probably name a stereotype or impression and a general geographic region and climate for most US states.

MN is... Probably a US State, since someone assumes I know what it is. Erm.  I dunno, Michigan? Montana?

It's pretty common to learn US states either formally in school, or just through cultural osmosis. I recall labelling state maps at one point, and having competitions in the car with my dad, naming as many as I could (we did this for countries and capitals, too).

I am guilty of using provincial abbreviations. I've lived or worked in BC, AB, ON, NL, and NU. Have driven through/stayed in SK, MB, and QC. Would love to visit YT and NT someday, and the Maritimes. But they're really not helpful for communication even with other Canadians!

Was it the book 1984 that was reworking the language to make it "better"?

Will the people of france be required to speak only english - so that english speaking folks can understand them?

The two letter abbreviations are klunky even for people in the us.  At the same time, people one or two states over probably recognize it.  So if you say "MT" regional folks know, and people far away don't.

Somebody could say they are in España.  Most americans have no idea where that is.  Even if that same person says "spain" they now think it is somewhere in europe.  

I think we need to allow for some klunky in all the languages.  

paul wheaton wrote:Was it the book 1984 that was reworking the language to make it "better"?

Yeah that's newspeak. I see it all the time in English. Like changing 'plumber' to 'licensed enclosed cylindrical flow technician'. Or whatever. Usually taking something that already makes sense and making it sound more important or technical than it is or trying really hard to not offend anyone.

I guess MT is actually newspeak for Montana. I think people knew what Montana was before the post office needed MT.

The so-called "United" States of "America", and the so-called "United" Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (UK can be confused with e.g. Ukraine), are probably both problematic abbreviations then.

I live in the Midlands of England, distinct in climate, history, culture, language, governance, law and more from Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland.  

I guess more accurate and precise locations are helpful!

Ac Baker wrote:The so-called "United" States of "America", and the so-called "United" Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (UK can be confused with e.g. Ukraine), are probably both problematic abbreviations then.

I live in the Midlands of England, distinct in climate, history, culture, language, governance, law and more from Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland.  

I guess more accurate and precise locations are helpful!

It was only after I posted my comments here I realised I used the abbreviations 'USA' and 'UK'. UK for United Kingdom was an abbreviation I learned from the internet (maybe even from the Permies forum), before I only knew GB, for Great Britain. Maybe you can explain the difference between those two?

Yes, I agree it's most useful to tell about your region in terms of climate, soil, culture, etc. when it's in discussion on a permaculture topic.

Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote: UK for United Kingdom was an abbreviation I learned from the internet (maybe even from the Permies forum), before I only knew GB, for Great Britain. Maybe you can explain the difference between those two?

This might help, or maybe it will just confuse you all even more...

We're just living the dream...

Burra Maluca wrote:

Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote: UK for United Kingdom was an abbreviation I learned from the internet (maybe even from the Permies forum), before I only knew GB, for Great Britain. Maybe you can explain the difference between those two?

This might help, or maybe it will just confuse you all even more...

Thank you. To me it is clear now. Before I didn't know that Northern Ireland wasn't part of Great Britain.

How many people know which state is bigger than Texas?

Texas is 695,000 square kilometers.

When comparing things, it's important to remember that the further north you go, the more the Mercator Projection makes land masses *look* bigger than they are.

I know that BC (British Columbia), Canada is 944,735 square kilometers, so close to 1/3 bigger. Nunavut, Quebec, Northwest Territories and Ontario are all bigger than BC, so therefore, also bigger than Texas.

Our three "Prairie" Provinces are all a bit smaller than Texas, and the rest drop off rapidly down to tiny Prince Edward Island at a mere 5,660 square km and at great risk of shrinking if we get much sea level rise or more huge storms.

School told me Alaska is the biggest us state by landmass and water (assuming the 3 mile rule).  The largest by a lot.

I never actually looked it up so I don't know if this is yet another lie school gave me.  

They never told us what the second largest was.

What are the...
Eastern most
Western most
Southern most
And northern most states in the usa?

It's a fun riddle to pass the time, as most people where I live, never need to know it.  


Spoiler

Spoiler


Hint.  It's only two states to answer all four questions.

Texas is the second largest state (the largest is Alaska). I've heard that Texans like to talk about their state being the largest (because it is the largest in the contiguous USA). But, I don't know if Texans do, or if that's just people picking on Texas. The Texans I know really like Texas and think it's awesome (which is fair. Most people like where they live and think it's awesome), but none of them have never talked about it being the largest state.  Regardless, it seems like a bit of a running gag at this point.

Which is the largest Canadian Province? And why don't I know this? All I "know" is that Quebec apparently wants to be it's own country sometimes. But, I don't think that's because they're larger than the other provinces (it's because they're more French than British, right?)...

I guess the fact that I don't know what Canada's largest province is, shows that it doesn't make sense that other countries don't know the USA's states. I don't know a single one of Mexico's states, let alone any other country's states/provinces/counties/etc. Surely China and India have something like states/provinces...but I don't know them. If I don't know any of those things, I can't expect someone in another country to know what/where Washington state is.

When I was in school, Northwest Territories won for size, both landmass and actual territory.  It's now two territories so I don't know which is biggest now.

If we go by province alone, it's going to be Ontario or Quebec.  Probably Quebec. (Checked with google and yes, my memory is right.  Although google seems to say it's based on landmass)

r ranson wrote: Probably Quebec. (Checked with google and yes, my memory is right.  Although google seems to say it's based on landmass)

When I was wandering around the internet, they seemed to consider "land" and "water". Considering how much of Canada is "water", if your purpose of defining the size of the land, is land we can stand on, there is some logic in dividing things this way.

That said, having flown over southern BC, there's a lot of land that is "very pointy" to quote a Canadian music group, and wouldn't be easy to walk on or build a house on. Canada is very big, but it also has many areas which are better left for food forests than cities or towns.