Intergenerational/demographic issues in Permaculture

I have a strong suspicion that if anything is to become truly rooted in a society, it must be embraced by all generations, or perhaps even all demographics. But one of the problems I am seeing is that at least in my area, permaculture is overwhelmingly represented by people in their forties to sixties (to guess based on appearance). I don’t know whether this is because of people at this age being more likely landowners, because of generational exposure to various ideas, or just because many of the younger people move away as soon as they can.

I think this is a bit of a problem, because when these people get too old to garden then we’re left with more abandonment of projects
(barring the occasional SKIP hero) that only benefit one generation, and if they’re lucky, the new homeowners after them just might spare a few apple trees. Or, say, it gets converted to conventional dent corn and all that remains are a few chunks of biochar to help make petroleum into ethanol. There isn’t the continuity, the tradition.

And also, it should be remembered that each generation has much to contribute in maintaining a culture of sustainability.

So what I’m essentially talking about is the mass exodus of young people from rural areas to urban ones, or displacement of people in general which results in disconnection with the land. And, the decreased capacity for physical work that comes with age. How do we make life good for all generations in our respective regions, so that perma culture can really be “perma”nent?

This is a really good point to raise, and a huge issue in many countries in Europe where the population of rural areas is heavily skewed toward older folk as most of the young people move to the cities for education and stay for work.

I'm not sure what the answer is. More rural based jobs? More remote working so people can earn money at the same time they steward a piece of land? Instilling a love of the land and a simpler life in kids? A shift from consumers wanting cheap food to being able to afford and wanting to spend on better quality food so farms producing food using "organic or better" methods become financially viable?

Bulgaria is full of villages that are almost empty, where most residents are over 60, while the cities grow bigger. Though I do see in the area of Bulgaria I know and love that there's a beginning movement back to the villages, especially when people become parents and want a better quality of life for their children. I look at the kids in the village school and pray that some of them will choose to stay and embrace the village life, maybe combining it with working from home as there's excellent internet connectivity.

I’ll add some of my own thoughts.

It seems to me that part of the reason that people move around so much is because of bad family relations. I can tell you about those… not because we hate each other, just our divergent views about our responsibilities to each other her and to the land that makes it difficult for us to understand one another. But I have, again a suspicion, that bad parent-child relations have their roots in the atomization of families and isolation from community, and community finds its root in organic trust, in the sharing of abundance, and sharing of space.

Let me give an example. There is a grapevine in a nearby town, “owned” by no one in particular although the residents of course have priority. There was more than they could use, so I, the farmers who planted the vine and since moved up the road, their farmhands, a friend of mine, and myself have all picked from it and it has become a central point. The fruit is delicious, seedy, like a large, sweet wild grape. But the fruit did manage to outlive the farmers’ residence there. And now that it is kind of a common grapevine, the fruit is not just physical.

Dependence (even in the sense of cohabitation with authority) can create feelings of imprisonment and resentment, and in cultures where things are private, exclusive, clung-to, stingy, there seems to be nowhere to go except far far away. Maybe with a more open culture than what I know of, where more is shared between people, more trust, generosity, dependence on the community rather than the atomic family, children wouldn’t develop these feelings of fear and imprisonment, which perhaps lead to this mass displacement that we are witnessing.

I’m saying this as a younger person myself.

I know this has been here for awhile but I do have some thoughts on the matter.
As someone that spent the formative years of her life as within subsistence farming family, I have often longed to return to the life I found more peaceful, simpler and more rewarding.
The problem lies with the financial inability to purchase a land parcel small enough to manage yet big enough to grow.
I have to work, as does every other member of my family.
I have begun to look into the possibility of working from home permanently, since remote jobs have become more attainable following COVID.
I think this solves the issue of needing to work while allowing people to remain in rural settings.
Sadly, due to my spouse becoming disabled, we live paycheck to paycheck which takes me straight back to being unable to afford acreage.
However, for others, this model of living rurally while working remotely from home would, I think, be very appealing as it provides younger people possible ownership. Especially including tiny homes in the process.
Just my thoughts, I’m sure there are a thousand holes in the plan.

I'm 29 and have been doing permaculture for about a decade now.

I do agree, that a huge issue is access to land. And a lot of people my age and younger (and older) have to work so much that they just don't have extra bandwidth.

I think part of the solution is continuing to open up public spaces, where appropriate, for community food growing. I've been involved with planting food forests at libraries, schools, and churches. I think that's a great way to open up opportunities across the board. But it is fairly limited and that is hard.

Some hope and an idea...


The hope - Last year, I hosted a permies meetup here in Maine. Three people I would guess were 50+ in age. The other seven were mid 30's or younger. So, I do think there is a younger generation stepping up.

The idea - As much as I prefer the idea of owning land to do with as I choose... around here a lot of people lease the land. It is far cheaper, with fewer risks. You need portable infrastructure similar to things that Joel Salatin is using, just in case. This technique probably would not work for food forests, but it would absolutely work for growing livestock, short lived perennials and annuals. It would work very well for someone to build up a farm name and a customer base, while not having the overhead of owning the property.

Permaculture is not a well-known subject.

I do know that we have had several younger folks in their twenties here on the forum.

Also, several universities have permaculture as part of their curriculum.

To me, this is as simple as folks talking more about permaculture.

How many people have you talked to about permaculture on a daily basis?

What is the best way to get permaculture into homes all across the world?

What are some talking points that we all could use to help spread the word permaculture across the world?

An interesting trend that I am noticing where I live is people from urban areas (NYC) are now moving to the more rural areas of New York State.

Where I live has a well ranked school system and it seems that more and more young families are trying to get into the area. While this is happening, I am also noticing a bunch of small farms directly advertising towards consumers and they have been (assumedly) doing okay.

I had to rehome my rooster earlier in the year, and the folks that I homed him with had a small holding where they were raising and selling chicken, pork, beef products.

I'm seeing a lot of fellow millennials sticking their toes into the Permie/Farming water. The question will be if it will stick or if it is just a fad?  

I think this is one of the great things about the SKIP program that Paul has implemented. It seeks to connect older Permies with worthy younger ones who have demonstrated that they have built some of the skills to look after the land.
I'd like to think that who ever lived on my plot after I am gone would want it because of the time I have spent here and the changes I have made, the plants I have nurtured. I'm not sure any of my relatives (I have no children, but several nephews and a niece) have that sense of belonging, of needing to be here that would overcome some of the downsides of living in a remote rural area. I'd definitely consider joining SKIP as an Otis, if my husband was agreeable.

Timothy Norton wrote:An interesting trend that I am noticing where I live is people from urban areas (NYC) are now moving to the more rural areas of New York State.

Where I live has a well ranked school system and it seems that more and more young families are trying to get into the area. While this is happening, I am also noticing a bunch of small farms directly advertising towards consumers and they have been (assumedly) doing okay.

I had to rehome my rooster earlier in the year, and the folks that I homed him with had a small holding where they were raising and selling chicken, pork, beef products.

I'm seeing a lot of fellow millennials sticking their toes into the Permie/Farming water. The question will be if it will stick or if it is just a fad?  

Some of my family (sisters) were wanting to buy land and permaculture it. We talked about it some, about the physical labor involved to get stuff started and maintained, about the knowledge to acquire to succeed, and about the need to shift focus from sedentary to non-sedentary activities. I shifted from a city life to a rural life and went through a transition from a more sedentary to non-sedentary existence. It's much healthier.

Jane Mulberry wrote:"...Instilling a love of the land and a simpler life in kids? A shift from consumers wanting cheap food to being able to afford and wanting to spend on better quality food so farms producing food using "organic or better" methods become financially viable?

Bulgaria is full of villages that are almost empty, where most residents are over 60, while the cities grow bigger. Though I do see in the area of Bulgaria I know and love that there's a beginning movement back to the villages, especially when people become parents and want a better quality of life for their children. I look at the kids in the village school and pray that some of them will choose to stay and embrace the village life, maybe combining it with working from home as there's excellent internet connectivity.

Jane,

This is really interesting. As a young family, my husband and I in our 30s, this is so so foreign to try to live and explain to anyone our age. It is incredibly hard to fight the onslaught of "stuff" and cheap things! My young love of the books by Laura Ingalls Wilder always brought me back to seeking to live gently and to be connected to Mother Earth.

I am grateful that you are acknowledging this! We have even gotten flack from people in their 50s and 60s about how we live simply and slow - it is so bizarre once you leave the hurry flow to try to enter back into it.

Rural definitely requires an intentional decision (and maybe a greater commitment to this lifestyle, as it is so easy to get swept up in what is quick and easy.)

Suzette, no, it's not always easy. Modern economies are based on buy buy buy and almost everyone gets sucked into that. And then they need to justify their choices when they see anyone doing anything different, which is why you get pushback.

We're trying to find a balance. We don't want to try for complete self-sufficiency, but we do want to be in an environment where it's considered normal to grow as much as we can of our own food as naturally as possible, where there's a sense of community, where people look out for each other.  It's what I've always wanted, and seem to have finally found.

I'm very glad for you that you're doing it now!

Finances preclude us from having anything beyond a patio/balcony apartment situation at the moment, but I'm doing what I can with what I have.  I'm 38 and so I am indeed getting close to that 40-60 age bracket, I have such mixed feelings about that, but they're not exactly related to permaculture haha.  I'm making do with what I've got, which in a way is a permaculture mindset in itself, maximizing what I have in order to have a manageable quality of life, growing food for us, wasting less, composting at my MIL's house, being careful with money (see maximizing resources) etc.  I can't do some of the big cool things I see others doing, but I can do something.